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What is Watson's value in a trade?

Texian said:
This is exactly what I have done. I refer you to the attached post. You can add to that Strike 6 for that horrendous draft.
Nick Caserio - New GM | Page 32 | Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com

We shall hear no more of not giving Caserio a chance.

This Texans draft reminded me of the 2005 LIONS draft and the GM, Matt Millen walking to the phone to call in their 1st RD pick, Demarcus Ware. Millen is corned by a couple of offensive coaches and is talked into taking WR Mike Williams instead.

Caserio giving up the store to move up in the draft is a foreboding sign of what's to come with the DW4 eventual trade. The handwriting is on the wall. Get ready it is going to be a trade no one will like it.
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Giving up the store?

LMAO

Enlighten us with your definition of giving up the store. If Collins becomes a 5 yr starter would you consider that being giving up the store?
 
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steelbtexan said:
Why does Caserio remind you of Pioli?
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The first thing Pioli did in Kansas City was establish a Gestapo, Caserio has done the same in Houston. Caserio has turned Kirby into a real Gulag. You know that Belichick thing, all things must be SS? Pioli had a OC with no HC experience who had a hard time keeping a job for a couple of years, Todd Haley. Caserio couldn't even do that. Haley was fired in short order as will Culley. Pioli then hired loser HC Romeo Crennel who was also fired along with Pioli. Caserio has Crennel on staff as his Senior Advisor for Football Performance.
 
Texian said:
The first thing Pioli did in Kansas City was establish a Gestapo, Caserio has done the same in Houston. Caserio has turned Kirby into a real Gulag. You know that Belichick thing, all things must be SS? Pioli had a OC with no HC experience who had a hard time keeping a job for a couple of years, Todd Haley. Caserio couldn't even do that. Haley was fired in short order as will Culley. Pioli then hired loser HC Romeo Crennel who was also fired along with Pioli. Caserio has Crennel on staff as his Senior Advisor for Football Performance.
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Ever thought that the hiring of Culley was an ownership mandate? Since both finalists for the HC position were minorities and Caserio gave his opinion on which candidate would be the best fit in the Texans org. Anyways, I think Culley is just a placeholder.

Tell me what makes you think the Texans are being run like a Gestapo since Caserio became GM? You can make a better case that it was Gestapo like down on Kirby before Caserio came on board.
 
steelbtexan said:
Ever thought that the hiring of Culley was an ownership mandate? Since both finalists for the HC position were minorities and Caserio gave his opinion on which candidate would be the best fit in the Texans org. Anyways, I think Culley is just a placeholder.

Tell me what makes you think the Texans are being run like a Gestapo since Caserio became GM? You can make a better case that it was Gestapo like down on Kirby before Caserio came on board.
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Man, his entire position is based off the premise that anything the Texans ownership does or decides is wrong, no need to wait for results.

The odds are in his favor.
 
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TexansBull said:
They were 2-14 because of the Schaub threw so many pick 6s they named it after him.

Let’s be real. The consensus and arguable opinion of the Texans at that time was that Kubiak/Smith couldn’t get them over the next level of just winning divisional banners.

They had a team with few holes outside of the QB position. That’s one of the reasons people flocked around OB. He was supposed to be a “QB whisperer.” He was the one to bring us out of QB misery. That is what was one of the many traits that was oversold on him.

That is why during OBs tenure the defense was able to win the horribly weak division equally weak QB play from the dozen or so QBs that played because our team was solid.
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O'Brien was able to win with Case Keenum, something Kubiak was never able to do. Heck, O'Brien pulled Keenum out of a deer stand and still won games.

Fitzpatrick and Hoyer both had their best seasons up to that point with O'Brien.

We have no idea who was behind Osweiler and Mallet. I would not be shocked if both were boardroom consensus picks.

And what did O'Brien do with actual QB talent? Just look at what he did with Watson. Kid could ball and loved him some O'Brien. I think he would have been RotY if not for that injury.
 
steelbtexan said:
True, but I'm hoping Cal is more hands off than his dad and let's Caserio carry out his vision of what he wants the Texans to look like.

I get why you're jaded. I'm taking a wait and see position.
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It's not that I'm jaded, as I pointed out a couple times Caserio first half dozen decisions were shocking to me to say the least. I have specific reasons why I am not a fan of Caserio, you have a lot of excuses why you're. :) That and Cal, Bill O'Brien and Jack Easterby thought Nick Caserio was the best guy for the job. Scarry.
 
Double Barrel said:
O'Brien was able to win with Case Keenum, something Kubiak was never able to do. Heck, O'Brien pulled Keenum out of a deer stand and still won games.

Fitzpatrick and Hoyer both had their best seasons up to that point with O'Brien.

We have no idea who was behind Osweiler and Mallet. I would not be shocked if both were boardroom consensus picks.

And what did O'Brien do with actual QB talent? Just look at what he did with Watson. Kid could ball and loved him some O'Brien. I think he would have been RotY if not for that injury.
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OB couldn’t win against winning record teams. He couldn’t even find an OC to run his complicated offense.

He sucked.

He was a gifted a not so bad Texans team and left us with a train wreck.

Why am I the only one that remembers the offensive play of run up the middle for little to no gain over and over again with little to no success?

OB sucked. He rode a shitty division filled with Mettenbergers and Bortles and an injured Luck.

The dude sucked.

End of story.

I didn’t read your post. Didn’t care to.

I just wanted you to know OB sucked. Him and Kubiak shouldn’t even be in the same sentence.

OB sucked.
 
TexansBull said:
OB couldn’t win against winning record teams. He couldn’t even find an OC to run his complicated offense.

He sucked.

He was a gifted a not so bad Texans team and left us with a train wreck.

Why am I the only one that remembers the offensive play of run up the middle for little to no gain over and over again with little to no success?

OB sucked. He rode a shitty division filled with Mettenbergers and Bortles and an injured Luck.

The dude sucked.

End of story.

I didn’t read your post. Didn’t care to.

I just wanted you to know OB sucked. Him and Kubiak shouldn’t even be in the same sentence.

OB sucked.
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You're not the only one who remembers the run up the middle at all cost. Lol
 
steelbtexan said:
Ever thought that the hiring of Culley was an ownership mandate? Since both finalists for the HC position were minorities and Caserio gave his opinion on which candidate would be the best fit in the Texans org. Anyways, I think Culley is just a placeholder.

Tell me what makes you think the Texans are being run like a Gestapo since Caserio became GM? You can make a better case that it was Gestapo like down on Kirby before Caserio came on board.
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Let us break it down.

Nick was hired by Cal. Cal then hired Culley, and Nick may have had a vote...or maybe not. Culley is the HC for now. McCown is the HC in waiting. Romeo is here for Culley, as a somewhat guide.

Cal said that he was going to hire both the GM and HC. He said that input from the GM was going to count towards the HC. However, not that it was going to be his choice.
 
TexansBull said:
OB couldn’t win against winning record teams. He couldn’t even find an OC to run his complicated offense.

He sucked.

He was a gifted a not so bad Texans team and left us with a train wreck.

Why am I the only one that remembers the offensive play of run up the middle for little to no gain over and over again with little to no success?

OB sucked. He rode a shitty division filled with Mettenbergers and Bortles and an injured Luck.

The dude sucked.

End of story.

I didn’t read your post. Didn’t care to.

I just wanted you to know OB sucked. Him and Kubiak shouldn’t even be in the same sentence.

OB sucked.
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So the facts don't support your agenda. BLAH BLAH BLAH :nolisten:lol

Folks around here had the same attitude about Gary Kubiak in 2013 and Dom Capers in 2005. Recently fired coaches are never popular.

Ultimately, nobody cares what a never-achieving expansion team does except for the suckers that follow the franchise.
 
Double Barrel said:
So the facts don't support your agenda. BLAH BLAH BLAH :nolisten:lol

Folks around here had the same attitude about Gary Kubiak in 2013 and Dom Capers in 2005. Recently fired coaches are never popular.

Ultimately, nobody cares what a never-achieving expansion team does except for the suckers that follow the franchise.
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No. I read your posts and - jeez. Your facts have no bearing or any substance to them. And random outlier that had no value. SMH.

Is Whisenhunt a better coach than Tom Coughlin because he was able to take Warner to a Super Bowl vs Coughlin who benched him for Manning? With your logic you would say yes.

Then you act like Watson’s success in the NFL is due to OB? Really? It’s not like Watson is/was a QB with immense talent on another level compared to other QBs. (Obviously we know now the talent wasn’t between the ears) He is the conversation of top 5 QBs in the NFL prior to the massage thing. That’s from born talent in spite of OB’s play calling.

You want to see OB at his finest? Watch the collapse of the Chiefs playoff game. He was lost in that game. As usual a coach with a winning record made him look like a clown.

51-7.

That’s OBs legacy. That’s who he is.

A sucker. Just like you who follows this “never achieving franchise” as you put it.
 
SnakeEyes said:
What Thorn said as well as AFL titles (the pre merger equivalent of winning the SB)... but we won't count that because it was before the merger.
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I start to wonder sometimes that people are more about participation trophies than they let on

This whole “AFC Championship game award” is overrated. That just means you are in third or fourth place in the league.

I don’t see the appeal in that or how that is bragging rights.
 
TexansBull said:
I start to wonder sometimes that people are more about participation trophies than they let on

This whole “AFC Championship game award” is overrated. That just means you are in third or fourth place in the league.

I don’t see the appeal in that or how that is bragging rights.
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Stepping stones, climbing higher on the ladder and all that horseshit. If you can't appreciate actually getting there, then there's nothing I can say. The Texans are the equivalent of a bicycle rider in the Indy 500. At least the old Oilers had a car.
 
Thorn said:
Stepping stones, climbing higher on the ladder and all that horseshit. If you can't appreciate actually getting there, then there's nothing I can say. The Texans are the equivalent of a bicycle rider in the Indy 500. At least the old Oilers had a car.
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Your analogies needs work.

Two AFC Championship games. One the Oilers lost 34-5. The other “what could of been” we know about: 27-13.

Yes - let’s hang our hats on that “success.”

Should we start comparing the number of Division Banners Texans vs Oilers next over tea and crumpets?

Because that’s what losers do. If you can’t compare the first place trophy you compare participation awards. If you don’t understand that then you are in a good place. Texans are great at participation ribbons. Or banners. Whatever.
 
TexansBull said:
I start to wonder sometimes that people are more about participation trophies than they let on

This whole “AFC Championship game award” is overrated. That just means you are in third or fourth place in the league.

I don’t see the appeal in that or how that is bragging rights.
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You can't win a SB without getting to the AFC Championship game, participation trophy or not. And it's something that every AFC South team has at least gotten too except for the Texans, and that's just in the OB era.

Even if you didn't count the Oilers AFL stuff because it's pre-merger, they still made it to that game in their 19th season. The Texans are beginning their 20th season this year.

So yeah, not into the everybody gets a ribbon BS, but getting to that game and playing for the right to go to the SB would probably be nice.
 
TexansBull said:
No. I read your posts and - jeez. Your facts have no bearing or any substance to them. And random outlier that had no value. SMH.

Is Whisenhunt a better coach than Tom Coughlin because he was able to take Warner to a Super Bowl vs Coughlin who benched him for Manning? With your logic you would say yes.

Then you act like Watson’s success in the NFL is due to OB? Really? It’s not like Watson is/was a QB with immense talent on another level compared to other QBs. (Obviously we know now the talent wasn’t between the ears) He is the conversation of top 5 QBs in the NFL prior to the massage thing. That’s from born talent in spite of OB’s play calling.

You want to see OB at his finest? Watch the collapse of the Chiefs playoff game. He was lost in that game. As usual a coach with a winning record made him look like a clown.

51-7.

That’s OBs legacy. That’s who he is.

A sucker. Just like you who follows this “never achieving franchise” as you put it.
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See my very first original post that you responded to, and it clearly prefaces my statement with "To be fair/objective. . ."

So your rather emotional diatribe ultimately reveals nothing more than you have some kind impassioned resentment toward the former head coach. Objective analysis appears to be a foreign concept for ya' with regards to Billy O'Brien. And that okay.

I don't care either way. I don't look fondly at any of the three former Texans head coaches. They pretty much all sucked, and it's just a matter of degree.

btw, I don't necessarily disagree with most of your points. I just don't care, where you seem all full of care. To each his own, of course.

But, I'll get some tissue, because your breakdown is coming soon, and I just want to be prepared to help comfort you in your time of apparent emotional distress.

I'm a nice guy that way. :cowboy1: It's all in good fun, man.
 
Speedy said:
You can't win a SB without getting to the AFC Championship game, participation trophy or not. And it's something that every AFC South team has at least gotten too except for the Texans, and that's just in the OB era.

Even if you didn't count the Oilers AFL stuff because it's pre-merger, they still made it to that game in their 19th season. The Texans are beginning their 20th season this year.

So yeah, not into the everybody gets a ribbon BS, but getting to that game and playing for the right to go to the SB would probably be nice.
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You know who would enjoy a conversation of meaningless stats?

Dan Marino.

I am sure when he gets together for HOF ceremonies with Montana, Aikman, Elway, and Farve he talks about AFC Championship games and how many he has been to all night long.
 
TexansBull said:
You know who would enjoy a conversation of meaningless stats?

Dan Marino.

I am sure when he gets together for HOF ceremonies with Montana, Aikman, Elway, and Farve he talks about AFC Championship games and how many he has been to all night long.
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What the hell is your point?

YOU CAN’T GO TO A SUPER BOWL WITHOUT GOING TO A CHAMPIONSHIP GAME!

Seems like a pretty simple concept.
 
Speedy said:
What the hell is your point?

YOU CAN’T GO TO A SUPER BOWL WITHOUT GOING TO A CHAMPIONSHIP GAME!

Seems like a pretty simple concept.
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It’s not the concept I am having a hard time processing.

It’s the fact that it’s some grand accomplishment that is a differentiator. I differ in opinion.

Out of the 15 other AFC teams that made it to the AFC Championship only 3 or 4 of them made it to the Super Bowl probably. NE, Denver, Baltimore and Chiefs I can think of. That means the other approximate 75% of teams just got there to do what? Lose. I don’t see satisfaction in that.

But to steal what another poster said earlier- thanks for writing it caps. It lets me know what to read.
 
TexansBull said:
It’s not the concept I am having a hard time processing.

It’s the fact that it’s some grand accomplishment that is a differentiator. I differ in opinion.

Out of the 15 other AFC teams that made it to the AFC Championship only 3 or 4 of them made it to the Super Bowl probably. NE, Denver, Baltimore and Chiefs I can think of. That means the other approximate 75% of teams just got there to do what? Lose. I don’t see satisfaction in that.

But to steal what another poster said earlier- thanks for writing it caps. It lets me know what to read.
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Look, there's only 1 team out of 32 that should ever be completely satisfied in any given season. Not saying that if the Texans ever made it to a AFC title game that I'd want parades and shit. Just that getting there would put them at a level they've never been at and probably bring some excitement to this lost ass franchise. It also gives them a shot at the big prize, which you have no shot at if you don't at least get to that game.

You don't have to win a championship to take some sense of accomplishment from a season. Yeah, it's still a disappointment if you don't win it all, but that doesn't mean everything was a total waste if you don't. Especially if you reach a level you've never been to.

And how do you feel about getting to the SB and losing? No satisfaction there either? If that's the case, and unless you've been a Patriots fan the last 20 years, you're rarely, if ever, going to be satisfied. Should probably just quit sports.
 
Speedy said:
Look, there's only 1 team out of 32 that should ever be completely satisfied in any given season. Not saying that if the Texans ever made it to a AFC title game that I'd want parades and shit. Just that getting there would put them at a level they've never been at and probably bring some excitement to this lost ass franchise. It also gives them a shot at the big prize, which you have no shot at if you don't at least get to that game.

You don't have to win a championship to take some sense of accomplishment from a season. Yeah, it's still a disappointment if you don't win it all, but that doesn't mean everything was a total waste if you don't. Especially if you reach a level you've never been to.

And how do you feel about getting to the SB and losing? No satisfaction there either? If that's the case, and unless you've been a Patriots fan the last 20 years, you're rarely, if ever, going to be satisfied. Should probably just quit sports.
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I feel for you brother. The Texans have beat you down to accept mediocrity.

I get what your saying and it’s different from what we have been talking about.

A team getting to the AFC Championship game is not a big something that sets apart two franchises. Winning an AFC/NFC does. It says you were best in the conference. I could see someone saying that sets a franchise apart, but saying I came in second does nothing. That only means first loser. That’s sports.

Getting to the Super Bowl is different that getting to the AFC title game. To get to SB you were the best in your conference. Goes hand in hand.

The window to win in the NFL is small. That’s why small victories can be somewhat meaningless.
 
Double Barrel said:
See my very first original post that you responded to, and it clearly prefaces my statement with "To be fair/objective. . ."

So your rather emotional diatribe ultimately reveals nothing more than you have some kind impassioned resentment toward the former head coach. Objective analysis appears to be a foreign concept for ya' with regards to Billy O'Brien. And that okay.

I don't care either way. I don't look fondly at any of the three former Texans head coaches. They pretty much all sucked, and it's just a matter of degree.

btw, I don't necessarily disagree with most of your points. I just don't care, where you seem all full of care. To each his own, of course.

But, I'll get some tissue, because your breakdown is coming soon, and I just want to be prepared to help comfort you in your time of apparent emotional distress.

I'm a nice guy that way. :cowboy1: It's all in good fun, man.
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Sounds like you can help me. I have a teenage daughter that when she gets in trouble I take away her car keys. She tells me she doesn’t care and makes sure to tell me multiple times. I think she does care. What do you think because you just the same thing by telling me you don’t care multiple times. Do you think she cares? Because I think if she does or she wouldn’t tell me multiple times she doesn’t care. Maybe that is what teenage girls do?

Also - let’s not project that I was respond to you fair and objective post with my emotional diatribe. One post does not always run into another. It was your post after that where I got emotional and frustrated with the fact someone said because a coach one a game with a back up QB they are better than another coach. That’s a reach. Or, this is a good one, that one would promote the idea that Watson’s success has anything to do with OB. That’s beyond reaching.

And you are correct. All three coaches sucked. If they didn’t, people wouldn’t be praising the Oilers (another team that sucked) for making it to a AFC conference game.

Thanks again for writing in caps, bold and the colors. Helps me. You are a nice guy.
 
TexansBull said:
I feel for you brother. The Texans have beat you down to accept mediocrity.
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Uh, I haven’t accepted shit. Especially mediocrity. And honestly, I’m not really sure what it is you’re arguing other than you seem to be poo-pooing a team making a trip to a conference title game for some reason, and then slamming fans who would like to see that one time in their lives.

So I’m done. Carry on with whatever.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
I seem to remember that same criticism in several seasons with Kubiak.
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I remember with Kubiak it was creative play calling. Everything was predictable. Play action with Schaub.

And the “we need to convert on a 3rd down with 7 yards to go” and a play would be drawn up to throw it 2 yards. Or something to that affect.

Everything was safe. No risk taking. Except for the ill timed half back pass. Was there a ill timed flea flicker?

Kubiaks team found creative ways to lose. Whether it was a Tennesse Titans last minute field goal on MNF, or the Kris Brown missed field goal. It was crazy. Like watching the last 5 laps of nascar to find out who wrecked and won.

Those are the complaints I remember.

It may have been in the early years of Kubiak that he was running Ron Dayne or Slayton up the middle. But Foster hardly did that stuff.

And the running it up the middle was nothing like OBs trademark run plays 2 out 3 downs.

OB has anyone and everyone beat.
 
CWTexansFan said:
Your poor wife.
My condolences.
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