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I don't know about others, but I certainly do not enjoy paying to watch people play sports who don't care about my team.
I hope everyone saves some venom for future contract talks that are truly acrimonious. Being so tough on this on "five months before the season starts" patty cake leaves little room for escalation when a successful Slaton, Winston, Williams, or whoever holds out for even more money and really hurts the team by not practicing or playing.
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I'm glad none of the fans here found out that recent All-Pro Jerome Mathis was getting ready to hold out for a new contract when he crashed his motorcycle and future. That would have been messy.
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I see the team painted as "honorable" all over this thread. I don't think the teams in the NFL are all that honorable, including the Texans. They cut players who have signed contracts all the time. I understand teams are allowed to do that - that is the way the the contracts work. Players injured in the line of duty (even injured "outside of the rules") often don't get fair shakes from teams either. Sure, that is the team playing within the rules too for the the most part.
If playing within the rules is all it takes to be honorable though, that should apply to players. I don't think Dunta in this case has done anything outside the rules. In fact, I suspect most of his teammates support Dunta over the organization and don't think this situation is all that big a deal. Maybe they are all part of the problem.
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The truth of the matter is that the Texans aren't that much different from the average organization. I imagine they've been able to keep some bad stuff out of the tame press here though, and they've never had that great national scrutiny that airs their dirty laundry.
I suspect most of his teammates support Dunta over the organization and don't think this situation is all that big a deal.
This is a business, and Dunta's actions are consistent with negotiating. He's doing exactly what he should be doing: using whatever leverage he has to get the best deal possible. His problem is that the tag gives him very little leverage short of missing games and $600,000 weekly paychecks. So he's trying to do what guys like Fat Albert did: get the team to agree not to tag him after next season.
I have no doubt that the moment Dunta eventually signs his franchise tender, he'll be physically ready to play. Competitiveness is not an issue with him. And his position probably requires less preparation than any other on the defensive side. We can just plug him in and go.
Its no fun watching a favorite player become cross-wise with the home team, but everything Dunta is doing right now is consistent with a player making a good-faith effort to get a good deal. No bridges are burning at this point.
And everything that the fans are doing is almost exactly what is expected of them. They see a rich guy holding out because millions and millions are not enough for him, and it upsets the illusion, the magic that is professional football.
Every time one of these guys holds out (and i realize that not showing up for voluntary activities is not holding out), it puts more distance between the players and the fans. Not that that should be a huge factor for a guy like Dunta, if he doesn't care, but it is a factor, nonetheless.
Dunta did well to return last season, but he wasn't NEAR his pre-injury self before the end of the season and had lots of problems with footing and cuts. Here we are, a few months down the road and he's planning on missing camp and possibly regular-season games? CB requires plenty of reps to get your body used to "reacting" to another player's moves - there simply isn't any good substitute for it. Other than the rookies, Dunta would be my #1 guy I'd be watching for progress DURING camp.This is a business, and Dunta's actions are consistent with negotiating. He's doing exactly what he should be doing: using whatever leverage he has to get the best deal possible. His problem is that the tag gives him very little leverage short of missing games and $600,000 weekly paychecks. So he's trying to do what guys like Fat Albert did: get the team to agree not to tag him after next season.
I have no doubt that the moment Dunta eventually signs his franchise tender, he'll be physically ready to play. Competitiveness is not an issue with him. And his position probably requires less preparation than any other on the defensive side. We can just plug him in and go.
Its no fun watching a favorite player become cross-wise with the home team, but everything Dunta is doing right now is consistent with a player making a good-faith effort to get a good deal. No bridges are burning at this point.
I am trying to find a history of the franchise tag. So far what I have found is this from February of 2008:Maybe if the Texans take that step and give him the promise that if he signs the tender they won't use the franchise tag on him he'll see that as a sign that they are willing to work with him and be honest with him. Right now it's a huge you know what match and somebody has to be the bigger man and say I'll make the first concession.
My memory suggests that players who make the "promise you won't tag me next year and I'll play this year" demand end up on other teams. I don't know if this is because they really wanted to be gone anyway or because the tag limited the scope of the bidding wars over them. I lean towards the just wanting out explanation because ifhe really wanted to be a Texan there would be no need for the extra demand.A review of franchise players over the last four seasons shows the tag was used 30 times on 24 players. Ten of those players eventually signed long-term deals with their teams, five before they ever played a down as a franchise player. Seven others moved on as free agents once they made it to the market.
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/2008-02-08-franchise-tag_N.htm
So, let me get this straight.
Dunta was offered $23 million, before they franchised him? $23 million guaranteed? He turned that down..... they tag him, now all he wants is a promise not to be franchised next year?
We're going to pay the guy $9 million + this year?
I don't think he's that great of a corner, and I don't think we'll miss him that badly. I'd have him sit out the year, not get paid, and let him go next year.
Anyone else remember this?
Titans game in Nashville -2006 season....Dunta getting torched by Drew Bennett of all people for a long TD bomb in the first half.
It's an image that's been burned in my mind the last 3 years. It's on continuous loop that comes on every time I hear the guy's name.
I hate to pile on, but I never really saw what makes him an elite corner. If he is, then I guess the market will decide.
So, let me get this straight.
Dunta was offered $23 million, before they franchised him? $23 million guaranteed? He turned that down..... they tag him, now all he wants is a promise not to be franchised next year?
We're going to pay the guy $9 million + this year?
I don't think he's that great of a corner, and I don't think we'll miss him that badly. I'd have him sit out the year, not get paid, and let him go next year.
This got me to thinking that if D.Rob wants an elite CB paycheck, then perhaps we should save it to sign an elite CB when one eventually becomes available. Why tie up our money with someone that doesn't really give us what we are paying for?
I say call his bluff and deal with the repercussions next off-season.
This got me to thinking that if D.Rob wants an elite CB paycheck, then perhaps we should save it to sign an elite CB when one eventually becomes available. Why tie up our money with someone that doesn't really give us what we are paying for?
I say call his bluff and deal with the repercussions next off-season.
While I don't like the idea of having Bennett and Reeves as our starting CBs (assuming we don't sign anyone) if we cut Dunta, the guy is being unrealistic. I agree with DB in that we shouldn't sign a player unless he is worth the deal.
I am trying to find a history of the franchise tag. So far what I have found is this from February of 2008:
My memory suggests that players who make the "promise you won't tag me next year and I'll play this year" demand end up on other teams. I don't know if this is because they really wanted to be gone anyway or because the tag limited the scope of the bidding wars over them. I lean towards the just wanting out explanation because ifhe really wanted to be a Texan there would be no need for the extra demand.
Anyway, the more I hear Robinson barking publicly and negotiating through the media, the more I accept the fact he will be playing for another club. I just hope the Texans can get something for him. But, really, what team will pay Robinson what he wants and cough up a valuable pick for him?
So, let me get this straight.
Dunta was offered $23 million, before they franchised him? $23 million guaranteed? He turned that down..... they tag him, now all he wants is a promise not to be franchised next year?
We're going to pay the guy $9 million + this year?
I don't think he's that great of a corner, and I don't think we'll miss him that badly. I'd have him sit out the year, not get paid, and let him go next year.
I'd trade him for a late 1st round pick or a high 2nd round pick, and get him GONE before he can infect the locker room. None of this "sitting around and seeing how it works out this season" crud. He's played his hand, let him deal with the cards he's dealt himself. All in.
Here's my current tirade/rant:
I'd trade him for a late 1st round pick or a high 2nd round pick, and get him GONE before he can infect the locker room. None of this "sitting around and seeing how it works out this season" crud. He's played his hand, let him deal with the cards he's dealt himself. All in.
Look, he wants to NOT to be tagged...so let's help him with that: Trade him, get something for him, and move on. It doesn't have to be a big deal, but it can't be lower than a 2nd rounder since Dunta was a first rounder. Additionally, I might even want a player in return from the team we deal with (in conjunction with the draft pick compensation).
Promising to NOT tag him is not wise, IMO. Our FO is not going to do that. Dunta exists as nothing more than trade bait, and we better not set the bar too high like we did with Sage.
I think the FO is letting him see how scarce the opportunities are for him to go to another team, but I hope the FO says "Look, where are some places you'd like to go?" And if that list includes some title-contending teams, then we get a 1st rounder IMO...no way is he going to go and grab a ring after pulling this crap unless we get a first round talent in return.
He has almost a $10 million paycheck for this year alone, no other teams are contacting him about a deal right now, and he wants to go hitchhiking after this season to see who will give him a ride? LOL. He's outside his mind!
There was a time when I would have desired to get an autograph and at least say something nice to Dunta if I ever stumbled upon him (which would be a miracle, btw). Now? I'd straight-up give him that "you turd..." look as I walked by him. Might even shake my head and make the "you crazy" signal with my index finger circling my ear.
What a waste. Honest to goodness, the guy has lost it. Boo-hoo, he never knows when his last payday will be. I am trying to help a man and his wife who just found out today that his job is gone because they closed his place of employment down. He has no money, they live in a rat hole and haven't had a working stove in over a year--every meal is cooked in their microwave. He has a vision defect and so the job prospects are going to be much more limited than the normal average man out there has to deal with. My wife and I are going to get them moved to a better place (out of our own money) and we're going to help him file for unemployment (he doesn't know how to) and we're going to help him fill out his job apps (he can't see very well).
And Dunta, God bless his heart, is bent out of shape over millions and not being able to play wherever he wants this year.
What the hell has this country gone to? Some people need a reality check. It's times like this that make me angry at our society. Colin Powell said that we're such a superpower that the only thing that can bring us down is us. I believe we're doing a great job of that.
Trade the guy, and keep him away from the other players.
What if nobody offers a 1st or 2nd? What if the best we can get is a 3rd?
I agree, though. Shop him around. His focus is primarily money, which is his right, but the team owes no loyalty to him after getting a $23 million offer rejected and he's going public with his gripes. It's just business at this point. No emotions should be involved. Do what is best for the team, always.
What if nobody offers a 1st or 2nd? What if the best we can get is a 3rd?
What about going after Sheldon Brown?
Trade him for RB Bush or the CB in Philly, Brown and just move on down the road. If you cant' get that take a pick, if not above a three, pull the F-Tag offer after the first week in camp, wish him well and get out of his way as he goes out the door, and save the 10 mill to get as good a CB as we can and again, just move on down the road.
I likey! I choose going for Brown.
Take Dunta's 10 mil and take care of Demeco and OD in the process.
Brown wants more money. I wouldn't trade one contract dispute for another. I would LOVE Bush.
Who is this Bush you speak of? Surely you guys aren't talking about Jesus in cleats?!?
I don't know. Now that this thread has "proven" that Dunta is overrated, a number two corner at best, and a locker room cancer - why settle for a number one pick? Let's take a first AND a second round pick for him!
I don't know. Now that this thread has "proven" that Dunta is overrated, a number two corner at best, and a locker room cancer - why settle for a number one pick? Let's take a first AND a second round pick for him!
RB Bush Michael OAK
This is normal. Robinson is a big piece of the Texans puzzle. I expect to see him here.This is normal, Johnson said about offseason contract problems with teammates. It happens everywhere around the league. When the season comes around, (Robinson and Ryans) will be big pieces of our puzzle, and I expect to see them here.
Now, we return you to your Dunta bashing thread.
Why do you hate the haters?
They would then lose their leverage to trade him after the 2009 season.Why don't the Texans just agree not to franchise him next year, have him sign the tender, and then see how the year goes?
Why don't the Texans just agree not to franchise him next year, have him sign the tender, and then see how the year goes?
If he returns to form, fine, sign him to a nice deal.
If he sucks, let him walk. If he picks up some big deal with some other team and plays well, we'll get a 3rd or 4th round pick as compensation from the NFL
They would then lose their leverage to trade him after the 2009 season.
(1) The franchise tag is a tool that all teams are provided. Agreeing not to utilize that tool for one player puts us at a competitive disadvantage.
(2) I think it sets a bad precedent. You give into a player demand like this, you are letting the prisoners run the jail house.
This is a pissing contest of ultimate proportions. Dunta turned down $23M guaranteed and is trying to save face. Smith, like any GM, doesn't want to appear manipulated by a player. I have no idea how this works out...