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[Chron.com] Dunta outlines terms

cland said:
What I saw last year was a guy getting off a successful ACL surgery. His play looked a little tentative, a little unsure of the knee. That is perfectly normal, and is why people say it takes more than a year to be fully back from an ACL tear. He played in 11 games which is enough to convince me, and I expect him to play pro-bowl type CB next year. I'm of the opinion that some GM(s) will agree.
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Would you be willing to risk 23 million dollars based on what you expect? Are you that sure? Pretend you're not a fan playing with Texans Monopoly money. Pretend your job depends on it. I'm suprised they offered him that much. I think the franchise tag is the ONLY reasonable offer for a player in Dunta's position.
 
Right, the point of the post was to defer to the Texans' staff. My thought being that the Texans' FO must be convinced the leg's going to be fine if they offered him a 23 million dollar contract.
 
cland said:
Right, the point of the post was to defer to the Texans' staff. My thought being that the Texans' FO must be convinced the leg's going to be fine if they offered him a 23 million dollar contract.
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Just remember that the $23M offer is just a rumor right now, although I think the franchise offer is easily worth signing.
 
There has never been a confirmation of the $23 million contract or the terms of such a contract. I doubt seriously that in light of his known level performance and other questions, such a contract exists. Furthermore, if a new CBA is not reached, and Dunta bombs out or gets reinjured in 2009, I believe it would have significant $$$ loss to the Texans should they wish to release him. The guaranteed monies would need to be addressed all in one year........2010. Even with a new CBA, it would be another longer term cap drain.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
There has never been a confirmation of the $23 million contract or the terms of such a contract. I doubt seriously that in light of his known level performance and other questions, such a contract exists. Furthermore, if a new CBA is not reached, and Dunta bombs out or gets reinjured in 2009, I believe it would have significant $$$ loss to the Texans should they wish to release him. The guaranteed monies would need to be addressed all in one year........2010. Even with a new CBA, it would be another longer term cap drain.
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There are nuances being missed in this thread. Players for years have wanted guaranteed money and wisely so. Traditionally in the cap era that has come almost exclusively in the form of signing bonus. The Texans have been one of the prime movers of change in that regard and it has gone largely unnoticed. Mario Williams for instance received zero signing bonus. His first year he received a $2.65 mil roster bonus plus his salary. Jacques Reeves is another example. He had $8 mil guaranteed but only $4 mil came as signing bonus, then they guaranteed his first year salary and part of the 2nd year. They are providing the players guaranteed money by doing what is not traditional - guaranteeing some of the yearly salaries. Could be they offered Dunta $5 mil signing bonus with guaranteed salaries the 1st two years to get to $23 mil when Dunta wanted a $18 mil signing bonus and $5 mil guaranteed first year salary.

Cap wise it is a different risk division. Pay Dunta an $18 mil signing bonus and he has a career ending injury you have to account for all the signing bonus in that year or the next. Guarantee the same amount over 2-3 years as salary and you still have dead money but can time it out as you choose. Agents and players are going to have to learn to adapt to a new dynamic and frankly they should accept that guaranteed salaries may be progress. I am waiting for the first guy with a guaranteed salary from team X getting cut and then receiving a salary from team X plus a new salary from team Y who they sign with after getting cut.
 
infantrycak said:
Cap wise it is a different risk division. Pay Dunta an $18 mil signing bonus and he has a career ending injury you have to account for all the signing bonus in that year or the next. Guarantee the same amount over 2-3 years as salary and you still have dead money but can time it out as you choose.
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I don't know if there's a big difference between the signing bonus, and the guaranteed salaries. If Dunta were given a large signing bonus and was subsequently injured, the Texans could carry him on IR without taking a big cap hit in a given year. As the Broncos did with Terrell Davis.

Still, your point that the collective we (Texans fans) don't really know the nuances of the contract offered to Dunta, nor what he has requested, is absolutely valid. We're making stuff up, then passing judgement based on the stuff we just made up.

In other words, business as usual here at Texanstalk. :)
 
Lucky said:
I don't know if there's a big difference between the signing bonus, and the guaranteed salaries. If Dunta were given a large signing bonus and was subsequently injured, the Texans could carry him on IR without taking a big cap hit in a given year. As the Broncos did with Terrell Davis.

Still, your point that the collective we (Texans fans) don't really know the nuances of the contract offered to Dunta, nor what he has requested, is absolutely valid. We're making stuff up, then passing judgement based on the stuff we just made up.

In other words, business as usual here at Texanstalk. :)
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I don't know the specifics of the TD situation but it sounds like they did it out of hope, self interest on cap implications or kindness and not guarantee.

This is a funny kind of debate in a way. Players have been saying for years they need to get huge signing bonuses because they could be injured or hurt at any time. It appears the Texans are one of a few teams pushing a response of fine we'll guarantee X number of years even if you get cut or injured. Looks like the players/agents are reacting with, crap we don't really want that, we want the money up front. Not taking a side here, just observing the interesting negotiation.
 
Four of the most well thought out, interesting posts I've seen on this forum in a long time. Great points all. Pleasure to read.

Interesting, refreshing angle to this tired, tired story. I think it's always important to keep in mind that as fans, we don't have much, if any information and we base many strong opinions on speculation.
 
Check out what Jerome Solomon says in his blog comments relating to Dunta:

"Dunta did not turn down top-five, as in top five cornerbacks in the league, money. That's just absolutely inaccurate."
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I have read that Dunta was offered a "Gamble" type deal. Gamble's "guaranteed money" was split over two seasons. Was the same true with Dunta's offer?

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I don't know about the structure of the guaranteed money, but the average of the contract is below what Dunta wants.
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Dunta hasn't turned down top five money. Check the facts. Remember when your mother put those vegetables in front of you and you waited to eat them last, hoping she would come back with a better offer? You didn't turn them down, you just let her know you would prefer a better offer. Chocolate cake maybe? Right now, the vegetables are still on the table and the Texans haven't put enough cake out to make Dunta eat anything. ... I am curious as to how looking out for one's interest in this cases is selfish AND stupid. That's just not possible. But I guess if you consider negotiating a wage is selfish, and that's such a bad thing, then you would think it is stupid to NOT accept the first offer a company puts on the table. ... Steven's guide on how to be a smart businessman: 1. Don't look out for your best interest, always think of what's best for the company you're negotiating with. 2. Accept the first offer.
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Good quotes TC.

Cooler heads tried to explain that a lot of venom was being directed at Dunta based on assumptions and little information. Beliefs are harder to refute than knowledge though. These quotes seem to line up more with what is known than the original report. Many knew Dunta to be eogtistical and greedy for turning down such a generous offer. It makes more sense that such an offer didn't exist. If he was whining in the press as much as was complained about, you'd think he'd have said that. The fact is he hasn't been in the press much.
 
The reason I think there was a valid 5-6 year deal at the ~23 million mark is that neither Dunta nor his agent have come out and said it wasn't made. If the offer was substantially less than what has been reported, I am pretty sure they would have no problem coming out and saying NO it wasn't. Now more to I-Caks point, they may not like how it is structured. I'm not sure what the difference it makes if you get you get the 23 mill in signing bonus or guaranteed over 2-3 years. I suppose it is a bit like winning the lottery and taking the money in cash instead of the 25 year payout. To me, I think a 2-3 year payout wouldn't be a bad thing, should help on taxes. Maybe he just wants to buy a really big house, who knows.
 
I think neither Dunta nor the Texans have said much because neither are negotiating in the press.
 
Texans_Chick said:
Check out what Jerome Solomon says in his blog comments relating to Dunta:
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Interesting issue here totally separate from Dunta, but he is the example. What is journalistic integrity in this instance? We now have three Chronicle reporters acting like they know what happened and yet reporting very divergent things. Should they be talking to each other, reconfirming their sources, should there be a step back until they can get consistency or is each reporter totally independent, etc.? McClain has made a flat out statement that Solomon has a flat out statement to contradict and then their is MsJustice who out of his sphincter and ignorance of his compatriots info denied what McClain said as well. Rambling, but seems like they should come up with A story rather than what now appears to be lawn darts.
 
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