Just out of curiosity, if that wasn't the case, if Rick Smith & Olsen were able to work their magic & sign Peyton, would you do it?
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All Encompassing Matt Schaub Thread
- Thread starter mussop
- Start date
Just out of curiosity, if that wasn't the case, if Rick Smith & Olsen were able to work their magic & sign Peyton, would you do it?
The OL went 11-1, but the best Schaub was able to do was 8-8.....
Break that one down for me. I mean small words, because this one is over my head.
GP
Go Texans!
I don't think Manning could work for this franchise and have it end up being what he's made it into at Denver with those guys. And I'm not kidding.
There's a culture here that's not exactly conducive to the way Peyton Manning operates. He's the type of guy who pushes all his chips into the center of the table, and he wants everyone else at the table to do the same thing.
He would have been utterly incompatible with Gary Kubiak. Gary would have had to go to counseling sessions because of Peyton. There would have been massive rioting in the locker room...I mean, there would be no lettermen jackets. No segways. No hipster Barwin peddling three-seaters through Houston's coffee shop district with his gang of fellow nerds. It would have been the most demanding environment they've ever seen. That would have been some damaging "energy" according to our team's resident Zen teacher.
Beyond the money issue, the guy was not a fit here. John Fox was like "Cool. Let's do this." LOL. John Fox don't care. He knows if a guy like Manning can butter his bread, then more power to the guy. He let Tebow do what Tebow does, and it got them into the second round of the playoffs last year.
If it makes anybody sleep better at night, though, I think Manning is a season or two away from being done. And the things we would have had to do to get him here, we'd be feeling the ramifications of that in 2013 and 2014, etc. So we might be seeing his final "good" year. Or not. Who knows.
TexanSam
Hall of Fame
If the Texans had room under the cap to sign Manning and not gut the team at the same time, then absolutely they should have gone after him.
Gary Kubiak worked with Steve Young and John Elway. I don't think Kubiak would have any problems meshing his coaching style with a Hall of Fame QB. He's done it in the past and if given the opportunity I'm fairly positive he could make it work here.
GP
Go Texans!
I went back and forth on that idea back in the off-season and leading up to camp, as well. The "what if" game.
It seems like a better shot at getting to, and winning, a SB. And right now, it looks like we messed up.
But even back then, I had this feeling that (a) He would never pan out here for Kubiak with the way Gary does things, (b) what else would we have had to cut in order to fit him in under the cap here? and (c) what if he has a bad year and it was a bad move, a "reach", and then what if he had a great year here but then next year he gets carted off the field and is done forever.
Three major issues that just couldn't be overcome.
Honestly. If you had to chose between the Broncos, Elway, & Fox or Texans, Smith, & Kubiak, who would you chose? How much more would the Texans have to pay to get you?
Matt Schaub
Practice Squad
The Texans have a great chance of going far in the playoffs.
We just have to believe and have faith. We have the best coach in the league, and he has not once steered us wrong.
We just have to believe and have faith. We have the best coach in the league, and he has not once steered us wrong.
I seriously don't know wtf most of this thread is even about. Thank god most of you aren't in control of this franchise. We are 24 and 11 over the past two years, including 2-1 in the playoffs, and we have thousands of posts that want to basically blow up the team (fire the coaching staff and draft a rookie QB to start right away).
We spent so much time in "rebuilding mode" it's like many of you can't enjoy anything else.
Schaub isn't a HoF QB but we've won 13 games this season and have a real chance at the Super Bowl. There are 24 teams who'd kill to be in our position
We spent so much time in "rebuilding mode" it's like many of you can't enjoy anything else.
Schaub isn't a HoF QB but we've won 13 games this season and have a real chance at the Super Bowl. There are 24 teams who'd kill to be in our position
GP
Go Texans!
Dutchrudder
Hall of Fame
That's not true at all. There was a path to make a run at Peyton, but it needed to start the first minute of free agency.
Cutting/trading Schaub would have saved about 7.2 million in salary.
Cutting Walter would have saved 4.5 million at the time.
NOT cutting Demeco would have saved us about 3-4 million in salary this year as opposed to the dead money created AND he would still be on the team.
JJo could have restructured like he did this season to save about 3.66 million.
Cutting Winston freed up another 3-4 million.
It was possible for sure, but we didn't even attempt to get him, instead they chose to take the dead money this year for mistakes made in the past, and hope to use it on future players. Cutting or trading Schaub before the 2015 offseason is now unfeasible given his extension. Only avenue of an upgrade at QB is through the draft.
klockWork
Rookie
I never said Yates is the answer. I think he's as garbage as Schaub. Hell, last season I was hoping Kubiak let Jake Dellome start in the PA instead of Yates.
I don't even want Yates in our roster. As long as that guy is our backup QB Schaub's starting job will always be secure.
Matt Schaub
Practice Squad
Surreal McCoy
Rookie
And Foster?
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Wrong. Unless he is injured and can't pass a physical at the beginning of the new league year both years 2 and 3 are guaranteed at $20 mil per year.
Dutch - I am sorry but it is more than coming up with what could have been done to match 1st year salaries. The Texans would have had to clear 20% of their cap space for the next 5 years.
Surreal McCoy
Rookie
Whatever side everyone is on, I think we can all agree...at least we don't have Mark Sanchez.
At least he can throw the ball more than 10'!
amazing80
Hall of Fame
Oooo a challenge, I like this
Umm, the pass to AJ in the endzone was off target, he led him too much, Dre barely got his fingers on it.
The terrible throw that went for 6, the other way
In the 3rd quarter he over threw Aj down the sidelines by a mile, but we got lucky and had a holding call away from the play
Those are off the top my head, I bet if you break down film, theres more
2 attempts past 10 yards has to do with his ability to carry a team. He can't, hes a game manager, and nothing more.
The 50% of his yards are YAc is a very accurate stat, do some research. And it has nothing to do with hitting guys in stride when all your passes are less than 10 yards, its great scheming to get them wide freakin open.
Look, Schaub is a game manager and if the run game and defense are great, we win. Like Saturday. If they are point, Schaub won't carry us. Thats the only point us Schaub "haters" are trying to make, we think we need a new qb very soon because at some point the qb will have to drag us to a win, and Schaub can't do that
EllisUnit
Vote RED!!!
Please quit throwing the ball 3 yards short of the first down eveytime. Please quit acting like davd carr and checking it down on every pass.
Please quit folding up like a child every time a defender is 12 feet away from you. After u lay down they just walk up to you and touch your leg. It is really sad.
Most of all PLEASE quit making those crazy eyes. Your freaking me out man.
Now i know you are not really Matt Schaub but take these suggestions for what its worth incase you start a QB career on Madden one day.
Please quit folding up like a child every time a defender is 12 feet away from you. After u lay down they just walk up to you and touch your leg. It is really sad.
Most of all PLEASE quit making those crazy eyes. Your freaking me out man.
Now i know you are not really Matt Schaub but take these suggestions for what its worth incase you start a QB career on Madden one day.
You need to walk me through this one Dutch; I think it's a whole more complicated than meet the eyes.
First, let sah we were able to trade Schaub, do we still have to spread the original signing bonus and the $10M option bonus from his fourth year and figure them into the cap hit?
Walter already had his salary cut to 2M in mid March, correct?
Keeping Demeco, and we still incur nearly $6M in salary and cap hit.
And he wouldn't happy in a reduced role.
Who knows, maybe they had a talk and both sides agreed that it's best for him to go to a 4-3 team.
Even if we had keep him, we will have a problem next year when his salary and cap hit increase.
Winston's salary is already accounted for.
I just don't see enough room for $18M.
Then if Manning passes the physical next year, it will trigger a salary of $20M guarantee the next two years (13 and 14).
I don't think it can work; and even if it does, it will put us in dire strait year after year.
EllisUnit
Vote RED!!!
Oh no there is a guy his name ironically is "Matt Schaub" go figure huh.
And i have to type all day at work and be proper the message board is a chance to half ass everything
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
This is what i want you to do before the next time you post. I want you to go watch some other qb's for an entire game that you deem better than schaub that aren't the elite qb's in the league. I want you to see how many passes that they put right in the bread basket of the WR and how many passes the WR has to adjust for; where they're either jumping up for, slowing down for, laying out for, going to the ground for. i guarantee u you will find at least the same amount of "inaccurate" passes if not more from each qb in these games b/c none of these guys r perfect.
I thought we were scoring 27 ppg last year, because Schaub was more than a game manager. We figured we could win with Leinart, because he would only have to be a game manager. Yates came in & managed the game to 16 ppg.
Most of us..... I'm guessing not you, was convinced if Schaub were playing (& not the game manager) we would have beat the Ravens (because we averaged 27 ppg & our defense played better because Matt kept the other team off the field) & the way the Pats played in the AFCCG, there was little doubt here that Matt would have beat them as well.
When did Matt become a "game manager" ?
EllisUnit
Vote RED!!!
After he hurt his foot
Good play by the CB; the pass was spot on if AJ was able to gain the advantage there; and I mean SPOT ON.
Also, Schaub threw a pass that O.D. could have caught for a first down (but he dropped the ball) with pressure on.
Another pass to O.D. was also with pressure on, but the LB Burfict commited a PI.
We got the PI, but Schaub was without another completion for 11 yards under pressure.
Obviously, we've already talked about how Wade Smith got beat badly on that pass that Schaub threw just off AJ's fingertips in the end zone.
Stating that Schaub was all over the place was simply incorrect.
The INT was a bad throw, that's for sure.
However, I remember somebody thought Schaub could have gone to Walter deeper. I say no can do. If Schaub held up and waited for Walter to make the cut, a DT would have been right on him from the back side (splitting Newton and Foster.)
However, I remember somebody thought Schaub could have gone to Walter deeper. I say no can do. If Schaub held up and waited for Walter to make the cut, a DT would have been right on him from the back side (splitting Newton and Foster.)
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Not to mention the FS was in play to intercept...we also dont know schaub's read progression.
Sure we do! Take a quik Look downfield if the primary WR isnt wide open dump the ball off to the check off several yards short of the first down.
Dutchrudder
Hall of Fame
No way, the only year in question would have been 2012. Without Schaubs extension, and the release of Walter, it's easy to clear 15-17 million for 2013 and beyond. He would have taken a bit less money with us, but he might have done it if he thought he was on a better team.
Not that it really matters since this is all what could have been, but it's fun to think about.
I don't understand this.
Manning's salary and cap hit is $18M this year and $20M the next 2 years.
Even if we release Walter, we still don't have enough money for salary (not even counting that we will need to release other players as well to accomodate for Peyton's cap hit.)
We don't need an elite QB. NO ONE HAS SAID WE DO! Just because a QB is better than Schaub doesn't mean they are anywhere near elite status.
So according to you we should waste all the good talent we have hoping its good enough to carry Schaub to a Super Bowl? You must hate Andre Johnson.
Show me where anyone is saying we need to replace Schaub RIGHT NOW.
Also who gives a rats ass about stats or salary. Like most of your combacks Neither prove anything. If Schaub was half as good as some of you guys think we wouldn't be so pathetic in the red zone.
The formula for playing a Schaub led offense is simple. Give him the underneath stuff and he'll eat it up. Then kill the receiver after the catch. Get any pressure on him on third and long and he'll go safety valve everytime.
Cinci played the right strategy today they just didn't have the right players to make it work. We abused Mauluga (sp) who is horrible in pass coverage. Of course once we got down to the red zone that didn't matter as much and they basically shut us down.
and if schaub was as garbage as some of you try to say he is we wouldn't be 12-4 with a playoff win.
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i'm still waiting on the suggestions on available free agent qb's and upcoming college qb prospects that no one has mentioned yet.
i've already said i'm open to finding a successor to schaub.
names some names. i'm talking about a clear upgrade not a lateral move that won't make the texans significantly better.
i've already said i'm open to finding a successor to schaub.
names some names. i'm talking about a clear upgrade not a lateral move that won't make the texans significantly better.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Classic example of losing yourself into irrational hatred. Some of you folks want Kubiak fired and Gruden brought in. Cool, just a few weeks ago Gruden was breaking down plays on how well Schaub looked off defenders and made his progressions. Frankly I thought he was too effusive at the time. Now I think you poo flingers are ridiculous.
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Oh here you go with this crap again. As if no one is allowed to point out Schaubs obvious (to anyone with a clue) flaws unless they suggest a replacent for him. How ignorant can you be? Players are replaced all the time. You don't have to have a specific player in mind to know that one needs to be found.
We simply need to keep our eyes and ears open. Keep all options open and be a little proactive in the market. If there are no good value guys out there currently that could at least compete with Schaub then game plan for the draft.
What's that, there's no good QB's in this draft? Then trade away this years first for a first next year that way The following year we have 2 first round picks to barter with.
That's all anyone that is knocking Schaub is saying. He's not the guy that is going to take us where we want to go. The sooner that is realized the sooner we can start planning to do something about it. YOU are the only one with the idea that it needs to be done now.
yet i've consistently said i'm open to grooming a qb to take over for schaub (and a WR to take over for AJ once he slows down) in the future and you completely gloss over that.
you're arguing something i've already agreed with.
if you could read, i was talking to someone who wanted to just dump schaub in start over with an unproven rookie :mariopalm:
you're arguing something i've already agreed with.
if you could read, i was talking to someone who wanted to just dump schaub in start over with an unproven rookie :mariopalm:
I'm not a Kubiak supporter but I think he is capable of winning a Super Bowl with this team if it had a better QB. problem is he refuses to give up on people once he gets close to them. We seen it with his d coordinators. We are seeing it now with his special teams coach and his QB. it's going to be his downfall. It's easy to see coming.
Just because I don't believe in him doesn't mean I don't want him to succeed. It's just painfully obvious that he doesn't have the managerial qualities it takes to be the man. You have to be able to put aside you personal feelings for players and coaches and do what's best for the team. If he could do that I believe he is good enough despite his shortcomings as a head coach to win a Super Bowl.
By the way, Gruden has never been someone I would want here. Can't stand him.
P.S. I thought you were going to stay out of our circle jerk. Just couldn't stay away huh?
No you weren't that has been your mantra from the start. "If you are going to complain about him then tell us who to replace him with". Bla bla bla!!!!!!
Show me some post that suggest we replace Matt schab immediately with a draft choice next year or even a free agent.
there you go.
pretty much saying start over with another qb.
And you say I can't read. Your comprehension skills are lacking my friend. First off that dale m post is stating the same bs argument that you are. That anyone dogging Schaub is saying they want him replaced now. And just like your pathetic argument it's not true.
The second post you so proudly threw out also in no way suggest that Schaub needs to be replaced RIGHT NOW or with a rookie next year. It's all in your little head. May I suggest some remedial comprehension classes at a local jr college. Could do you a world of good.
klockWork
Rookie
Who do you see touching Schaub in that screen shot? Walter is into his cut, left cb broke into AJ leaving the left field expose, safety in the middle still back pedaling. If the pass is thrown at that point and toward the sideline it would've been a 20+ gain out of bounds instead of a pick 6. Even if he chooses not to throw there its inexplicable to throw to Casey when the line gave more than enough time to weigh his option. Throw it away at least.
http://imageshack.us/a/img99/1356/schaubint.png
Bottom line of that play is Schaub made a panick throw in a clean pocket. The dude have absolutely zero pocket-awareness. That's my biggest gripe about this guy. It's not his below average arm, it's not his lack of mobility, it's not his leadership skill. It's about him failing to remain poise and making that extra read in coverage.
EllisUnit
Vote RED!!!
Dunno man i watched the replay a few times and Walter was wide open well before Schaub threw the ball, to me it didnt appear he even looked down field instead it looked like he staired down Casey the entire play.
Whats done is done, but Schaub has become the old version of David carr after our o-line had him shell shocked. Check down, check down, check down. Seems it has been this way for a while this season now. I dont know what changed from early in the year when he was chunking bombs like he did in Denver.
Its like he lost all confidence.
Dutchrudder
Hall of Fame
I'm just going off memory here for Schaub's 2012 cap number pre-extension, but iirc he had 7.2 million in non-guaranteed salary and a little left over signing bonus (1.25 million I think). Cutting/Trading him in 2012 would have saved that much, and he obviously would have never gotten an extension. His 2013 projected cap hit will be 10.75 million, Walters is 4.5 million. That's 15.25 million alone in free money for 2013 and beyond, which IMHO is enough to make a legitimate run at Peyton Manning and pay him for years to come. Not only that, but Schaub actually restructured the remainder of his deal into his new extension, which increased his 2012 cap hit by about 2 million. So there's some more change to help go after Manning.
I don't think we would have offered the same amount per year as Denver, but we could have been competitive (16-18 million per year range). By the way, Schaub's last two years of his current deal are projected to be 17 and 19 million cap hits.
Bottom line, it was completely feasible if there was a significant effort to get Manning. Schaub could have been kept on the roster while they made a play for Peyton, and if it didn't work out, then you still have a QB. But it's clear the organization wasn't interested in Manning, so it's all water under the bridge.
We all want Kubiak to be "fiery" right? It's been said that he is "fiery" in the locker room, he's just not going to berate his players on TV, during the game.
Imagine that Kubiak rode up & down Schaub after that New England game, in the locker room, or in the film room. Tore him a new one, not for throwing the INT, but for not seeing the wide open Arian Foster with nothing but green between him & the end-zone.
So now you have Matt Schaub second guessing himself. He thinks twice about that bomb he threw to Andre that was underthrown & Andre had to fight off the defender for the ball.
He second guesses himself & he underthrows that ball to Casey, allowing Vonte Davis to undercut him.
He starts launching the balls over the top, overthrowing everybody (they obviously don't practice this). He's thrown more INTs since that game than he has all year... I think. At least he's thrown more INTs in that 4 game period than he has in any 4 game period this year.
That interception on the Casey throw Saturday, again he's second guessing himself & threw it late. He's not trusting what he sees anymore, he's looking for alternatives & his decisions are coming a lot slower.
Just a theory.
As I had posted earlier, Walter already got his salary reduced to $2M sometimes in Mid March (his cap hit is $3M, I believe.)
Adding the cap hits of Schaub and Walter together (per Spotrac), we come up with $15.2M.
That's $2.8M short of the $18M.
What does that mean?
Either:
1. Manning has to agreed to sign for $2.8M less for us to stay at the same cap number (that we must) and Walter is gone while we don't have any one on the roster that can do the things he was asked for besides catching the ball.
The only guy we had at that time was Jean who was on IR for the entire 2011, and therefore had never practiced those blocks and routes that Walter runs.
(I never thought for a moment that they can cut Walter. Next year, they will a possibility, if they've been having Jean and Posey learning to do those things all this time.) Do you think that Peyton would leave $2.8M on the table?
2. Keeping Walter and cut several players to make the cap.
Take a look at the cap hits, who and how many players can the Texans cut (replacing them with minimum-salary players) to make it work?
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/houston-texans/cap-hit/
I don't think it's feasible.
First, I think somebody posted about Ron Jaworski somewhere.
I read (ESPN, I think) that Jaws had Schaub at #9 in his final QB ranking.
Then on Mike $ Mike, when Jaws talked with them about the 4 Wild Card games, he was asked about what he saw on tapes with Schaub.
He responded that he saw a QB that started to have his confidence back again.
Now, back to that INT. We already agreed that it was a bad throw.
We're only trying to see if we can figure out what happened on that play.
On the offensive side, the Texans kept the TE and the RB back to block.
On the left side, we were running a three-level pattern.
Walter ran a corner route deep; AJ ran a stop route in the middle, and Casey ran a quick out route to the flat at the lowest level.
What I think Schaub saw at the outset is a 4-Man pass rush.
The LBs all dropped back immediately.
It figures to be cover 2 and 5 zone under.
In that case, he expected that the RCB Hall to go back to his landmark first before reacting back to Casey.
A quick throw there should do the trick; he didn't expect that Hall would jump the route since it was not supposed to be man coverage.
If it was man coverage, Hall would have ran with AJ while one of the LBs would jump out on Casey.
IMHO, it was a good play by Hall.
Schaub, reading zone, can't wait for the CB to find his landmark.