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All Encompassing Matt Schaub Thread

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Should we go back and "be real" about the picks Schaub almost threw too?

I can't take a lot of y'all seriously. Some folks judge keenum more harshly than they judged Matt and dude just made his third start without the head coach and normal play caller present.
by the end of Schaub's run, people pretty much were counting Schaub's near picks as if they were actual picks....look no further than the game threads....specifically, the SF game thread.
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
It's not that i want to see Schaub come back in & start b/c i dont....he's done for sure. i just find it funny how people are pointing to Keenum's stats like "see, i told you he's good" even though we still only play 1/2 of a game.

When folks tried to point towards stats with Schaub it was "well, this is a qb friendly system..." or "Kubiak/AJ/Foster are making him look good.." etc. etc.

I'm also finding it funny how every excuse in the book is coming out in defense of Keenum but you couldn't get anyone on this board to consider all that stuff for Schaub. I told people when all this started, most times, guys don't fall over the hill right before your eyes like Schaub did this season....there's more to it than just Schaub's poor play.....Now since Case has been starting it's more on:

-the o-line
-the coaching
-the defense
-the special teams

The reality of it is, Schaub had to deal with all of that too & he likely felt pressure to try to do more than he was capable of at times. & 10 year vet or not, no qb can function under siege like our qb's have had to for basically 2 years now. You add in the awful coaching & outdated scheme & you get "business as usual" in terms of this team's success record wise & terrible 2nd halves.

I say all this to say that you can't have it both ways. Yes, Case isn't turning the ball over in epic fashion like Schaub was towards the end, but he's yet to show that he can overcome the same set of circumstances that ultimately contributed to the demise of Schaub.
Are we sure about that? He hasn't thrown an INT, & while he hasn't thrown a pick 6, that fumble recovered for a TD had the same affect. & while I'm not taken seriously, I've been saying the same thing since week 1. Yeah, it sucks that we've got a QB that needs "everything" to be perfect, but we've built this team to "be" perfect. We've got so much invested on the defensive side of the ball, plus one of the best DCs of the last decade (hopefully our Dick Lebeau, Jim Johnson, Monty Kiffen, Rex Ryan). 7 pro bowlers on the offensive side of the ball; Andre, Duane, Wade, Myers, OD, Arian, Schaub...... Only Aj has been pulling his weight, since New England (& that's when Schaub can get him the ball).

Seattle had a great 2012 with their rookie QB because their play makers stepped up... their running game, their defense. SF with Frank Gore & Patrick Willis made it easy on Kaepernick. & on paper they don't look anywhere near as good as our squad, but when it mattered the Colts run game & defense came up as big and Andrew Luck looks like "Andrew Luck."

I was hoping the "spark" we were looking for would result in our play-makers making plays, that our #1 defense would look like a #1 defense. That our 1a & 1b running backs would be the envy of the NFL. Or that we'd find our "Victor Cruz" or "T.Y. Hilton" but.... obviously the spark "we" were looking for was a QB that plays lights out in the first half.

I used to give Rex Ryan a hard time, called him a cheer leader. But he, like Pagano, like Bellichick..... are obviously more capable than Kubiak at getting the most out of their players.
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
by the end of Schaub's run, people pretty much were counting Schaub's near picks as if they were actual picks....look no further than the game threads....specifically, the SF game thread.
Like you said, it doesn't matter. Our problem is about the team. Play from the QB may look a bit different.... but we're 0-3 over the last three games.

When Schaub was QB, the only thing that mattered was W's & L's (until we started winning) shouldn't be any different now.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Rep! And there's a lot more to beating the blitz than just recognizing the blitz. There's play calling and audibles, none of which Keenum has had the benefit of or the ability to utilize, due to the intrinsic nature of Gary's offense.
Moreover, yesterday we saw Case motion both Tate and Johnson to the side the blitz was coming from, to no avail. You're simply not going to beat the blitz unless you call blitz beating plays. It didn't happen.
You say the bolded like Schaub didn't have to deal with all that. Don't pull out the excuses for Keenum. He's performed admirably but at the end of the day, this is the system & the coaching staff & what he has to work within...

as far as the "blitz beating" plays, we did call them...the defense was just all over them is all. What, you don't think they knew Keenum was trying to get rid of the ball quickly when they sent a blitz at him? Washington & Dansby were pretty much banking on it which is why alot of that short underneath & over the middle stuff Keenum threw was mostly incomplete &/or nearly picked off.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
It's not that i want to see Schaub come back in & start b/c i dont....he's done for sure. i just find it funny how people are pointing to Keenum's stats like "see, i told you he's good" even though we still only play 1/2 of a game.

When folks tried to point towards stats with Schaub it was "well, this is a qb friendly system..." or "Kubiak/AJ/Foster are making him look good.." etc. etc.

I'm also finding it funny how every excuse in the book is coming out in defense of Keenum but you couldn't get anyone on this board to consider all that stuff for Schaub. I told people when all this started, most times, guys don't fall over the hill right before your eyes like Schaub did this season....there's more to it than just Schaub's poor play.....Now since Case has been starting it's more on:

-the o-line
-the coaching
-the defense
-the special teams

The reality of it is, Schaub had to deal with all of that too & he likely felt pressure to try to do more than he was capable of at times. & 10 year vet or not, no qb can function under siege like our qb's have had to for basically 2 years now. You add in the awful coaching & outdated scheme & you get "business as usual" in terms of this team's success record wise & terrible 2nd halves.

I say all this to say that you can't have it both ways. Yes, Case isn't turning the ball over in epic fashion like Schaub was towards the end, but he's yet to show that he can overcome the same set of circumstances that ultimately contributed to the demise of Schaub.
The thing is I did bring up all these issues in support of Schaub.
I did not lay everything at his feet.
But Schaub has become one of the problems.
 

EllisUnit

Serving Koolaid
After 3 weeks of watching Case play there is really still a debate about who should start, even minus all the pic 6s Matt threw and Case has still out played him. We have all said that AJ needs to be targeted more, and why dont he get into the endzone more ? Well he has 5 TD catches this season, all from case and all in the last 2 games.

I see no debate.
 

tedr

Waterboy
After 3 weeks of watching Case play there is really still a debate about who should start, even minus all the pic 6s Matt threw and Case has still out played him. We have all said that AJ needs to be targeted more, and why dont he get into the endzone more ? Well he has 5 TD catches this season, all from case and all in the last 2 games.

I see no debate.
Good post.

It's true that we haven't won a game with Case...it's also true that all 3 have been infinitely closer than they would have been with Schaub. If people can't see that Case is our best option now (and might be going forward), then they must be watching different games than I am. Give Case until the end of the year- you need a much larger sample size than 3 games.
 

EllisUnit

Serving Koolaid
Good post.

It's true that we haven't won a game with Case...it's also true that all 3 have been infinitely closer than they would have been with Schaub. If people can't see that Case is our best option now (and might be going forward), then they must be watching different games than I am. Give Case until the end of the year- you need a much larger sample size than 3 games.
Not to mention he hasnt played a full game with Foster who defenses fear and respect more than tate, he hasnt had O.D one of the better TEs in the NFL. AND he has been without Kubiak one of the better Offensive minded play callers for 1 1/2 of his 3 games.

Not making up excuses for the boy, cause he has still played damn good, just saying this isnt as good as he can be.
 

EllisUnit

Serving Koolaid
Uhm, don't be hijacking Schaub's thread, LOL.
haha i'm not, everyone in here keeps saying Schaub isnt getting treated as fair, case is getting all these excuses blah blah blah. Juts trying to make a few points.

I say we merge the Case and Schaub threads together and call it All Encompassing Starting QB Thread, especially since Kubiak cant make up his mind.

Its like choosing a 12 year old girl scout to fight crime instead of Batman :kitten:
 

tedr

Waterboy
Not to mention he hasnt played a full game with Foster who defenses fear and respect more than tate, he hasnt had O.D one of the better TEs in the NFL. AND he has been without Kubiak one of the better Offensive minded play callers for 1 1/2 of his 3 games.

Not making up excuses for the boy, cause he has still played damn good, just saying this isnt as good as he can be.
Good points- I hadn't thought about who he hasn't had with him in the games- in my mind that means he's been that much more impressive.

I looked at Schaub's stats with Atlanta. He started two games in his three years there, had a 52% completion %, threw six TDs and six INTs, and had an 0-2 record...yet after playing golf with Kubes, we trade for him, he gets a fat contract, and is anointed the starter. So, he gets all this after not having won a game before coming to Houston, and people here don't think Case deserves to start the rest of the year? What am I missing?
 

EllisUnit

Serving Koolaid
Good points- I hadn't thought about who he hasn't had with him in the games- in my mind that means he's been that much more impressive.

I looked at Schaub's stats with Atlanta. He started two games in his three years there, had a 52% completion %, threw six TDs and six INTs, and had an 0-2 record...yet after playing golf with Kubes, we trade for him, he gets a fat contract, and is anointed the starter. So, he gets all this after not having won a game before coming to Houston, and people here don't think Case deserves to start the rest of the year? What am I missing?
Your not missing anything, hell look how good jacoby jones looked as a WR once he left hear, thats along has to tell ya something.
 

infantrycak

Admin & Mod
So, he gets all this after not having won a game before coming to Houston, and people here don't think Case deserves to start the rest of the year? What am I missing?
Who has said Schaub should replace that wasn't talking about so the Texans would lose for a higher draft pick?

Your not missing anything, hell look how good jacoby jones looked as a WR once he left hear, thats along has to tell ya something.
JJ was a more productive WR in Houston. As a returner he has been better in Baltimore.
 

EllisUnit

Serving Koolaid
Who has said Schaub should replace that wasn't talking about so the Texans would lose for a higher draft pick?



JJ was a more productive WR in Houston. As a returner he has been better in Baltimore.
he was until his final season there, and then he went on to Baltimore to make some very big plays in the passing/catching game in Baltimore. And yes he was also very good on ST also
 

infantrycak

Admin & Mod
he was until his final season there, and then he went on to Baltimore to make some very big plays in the passing/catching game in Baltimore. And yes he was also very good on ST also
His last season in Houston compared to his first in Baltimore he had 1 more reception for 109 more yds, 1 more TD, a better longest and 7 more 1st downs. He was a more productive WR here. Yes he had 2 big receptions in the playoffs.
 

JCTexan

Hall of Fame
he was until his final season there, and then he went on to Baltimore to make some very big plays in the passing/catching game in Baltimore. And yes he was also very good on ST also
It's a fact. Jacoby Jones was a more productive WR for the Texans than he has been for the Ravens so far.

2009 - 27 Catches for 437 yards
2010 - 51 Catches for 562 yards
2011 - 31 Catches for 512 yards

2012 - 30 Catches for 406 yards
2013 - 15 Catches for 142 yards
 

The Pencil Neck

Hall of Fame
Good points- I hadn't thought about who he hasn't had with him in the games- in my mind that means he's been that much more impressive.

I looked at Schaub's stats with Atlanta. He started two games in his three years there, had a 52% completion %, threw six TDs and six INTs, and had an 0-2 record...yet after playing golf with Kubes, we trade for him, he gets a fat contract, and is anointed the starter. So, he gets all this after not having won a game before coming to Houston, and people here don't think Case deserves to start the rest of the year? What am I missing?
You have to go back in time a little bit. Schaub was a 3rd round draft choice but ONLY because he hurt his shoulder his senior year and teams weren't sure how he would recover from that.

Early on, there were a lot of people in Atlanta calling for Schaub to start over Vick. Schaub was a hot-topic around the league. A lot of teams were interested in him and wanted to trade for him.

He was a high value guy at the time even though there were a lot of nay-sayers in the fanbase who branded him purely a back-up QB.

Now on the other topic... I don't see how anyone could watch Case play in this offense and not be excited about the possibilities and not be overjoyed with his development.

I just don't get it. And as a UH alum, I've tried to be extremely objective about Case because I know I've got some bias there.
 
....had engineered the game-winning drive to beat the Raiders?

This scenario - I thought about right after the game ended and the fiasco on the sideline took place. With AJ not finishing his routes, was that a sign that he did not want Schaub to complete a comeback victory?

Is the dissension this deep between Schaub and the rest of the team?

Things I've been pondering....
 

Rey

Guest
Aj didn't finish his route because there were defenders in his way. I'm pretty sure Dre doesn't give a damn how they win games. Or really anyone else for that matter. Well maybe except kubiak. I think he wanted Schaub to play hero.
 

JCTexan

Hall of Fame
....had engineered the game-winning drive to beat the Raiders?

This scenario - I thought about right after the game ended and the fiasco on the sideline took place. With AJ not finishing his routes, was that a sign that he did not want Schaub to complete a comeback victory?

Is the dissension this deep between Schaub and the rest of the team?

Things I've been pondering....
The reason I haven't been pondering this is because the throw shouldn't have gone to AJ in the first place. He had like five defenders on him and the end result still would have been the same if he finished his route since the defender would have still been able to tip the pass.
 

htownfan32

Hall of Fame
Kubes threw Schaub in as a last desperate measure to win. That's all there is to it. It didn't work out and I'm fairly sure Kubes knows he's gone after this season, so there's no point in putting Schaub out there. Might as well see what we've got in Keenum.

For all that we sh*t on Schaub he moved the sticks last game but couldn't score worth a crap (just like old times). Kubiak's last gamble failed and now he's just preparing Keenum for the future.

I have a feeling in my gut though that the next HC will want his guy at QB and will have the pick at #3 or #4 to draft his guy. Keenum, unless he goes lights out or shows steady improvement, might end up having to duel for his job this coming offseason.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Kubes threw Schaub in as a last desperate measure to win. That's all there is to it. It didn't work out and I'm fairly sure Kubes knows he's gone after this season, so there's no point in not seeing what you have in the future.

For all that we sh*t on Schaub he moved the sticks last game but couldn't score worth a crap (just like old times). Kubiak's last gamble failed and now he's just preparing Keenum for the future.

I have a feeling in my gut though that the next HC will want his guy at QB and will have the pick at #3 or #4 to draft his guy. Keenum, unless he goes lights out or shows steady improvement, might end up having to duel for his job this coming offseason.
You dont think that he should?
 

htownfan32

Hall of Fame
You dont think that he should?
Should what? Prep Keenum for the future? He definitely should. Might as well see what we got.

or did you mean should Keenum face competition in the offseason? If it's what's best for the team, then yes. If not, if Keenum is truly the guy, then we can roll with him and I'll happily watch #7 chuck TDs to #80 all Sunday long.
 

Bulls on Parade

2017 Astros: Earn It!
....had engineered the game-winning drive to beat the Raiders?

This scenario - I thought about right after the game ended and the fiasco on the sideline took place. With AJ not finishing his routes, was that a sign that he did not want Schaub to complete a comeback victory?

Is the dissension this deep between Schaub and the rest of the team?

Things I've been pondering....
In his younger days, I think he would have ran it in himself. I remember a home win (29-28) over the Dolphins years ago (2008) when Matt Schaub just tucked it in and ran for the winning score in a similar situation. I think it was fourth and one at the three yard line with seven seconds left. It was a little difference I guess but close enough.

http://youtu.be/uiSpXsh0ru0

The Tecmo Super Bowl version of that play. Kind of funny how that was our first win of the season that year. It just seems like the Texans are a day late and a dollar short. Nothing we do seems to work anymore. It's like the football Gods handed us two straight wild-card victories over the Bengals and now we're in for a lot of bad football again.
 

htownfan32

Hall of Fame
In his younger days, I think he would have ran it in himself. I remember a home win (29-28) over the Dolphins years ago (2008) when Matt Schaub just tucked it in and ran for the winning score in a similar situation. I think it was fourth and one at the three yard line with seven seconds left. It was a little difference I guess but close enough.

http://youtu.be/uiSpXsh0ru0

The Tecmo Super Bowl version of that play. Kind of funny how that was our first win of the season that year. It just seems like the Texans are a day late and a dollar short. Nothing we do seems to work anymore. It's like the football Gods handed us two straight wild-card victories over the Bengals and now we're in for a lot of bad football again.
If you remember that Oakland game at home (was it two or one year ago? can't recall... pretty sure it was two because we lost) Schaub had a day to throw it and was very close to the endzone, could have ran it in, but threw the pick instead.
 

Bulls on Parade

2017 Astros: Earn It!
If you remember that Oakland game at home (was it two or one year ago? can't recall... pretty sure it was two because we lost) Schaub had a day to throw it and was very close to the endzone, could have ran it in, but threw the pick instead.
I remember that game and play. Same situation again, LOL

The Raiders had 10 guys on the field also!
 

EllisUnit

Serving Koolaid
....had engineered the game-winning drive to beat the Raiders?

This scenario - I thought about right after the game ended and the fiasco on the sideline took place. With AJ not finishing his routes, was that a sign that he did not want Schaub to complete a comeback victory?

Is the dissension this deep between Schaub and the rest of the team?

Things I've been pondering....
If this were the case the O-line would not of blocked for him half as good as they did.
 

Norg

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
then matt would be the starter this week and Matt would prob Crush THE JAGS


now with Case I still think we can win but IDK
 

TejasTom

All Pro
Aj didn't finish his route because there were defenders in his way. I'm pretty sure Dre doesn't give a damn how they win games. Or really anyone else for that matter. Well maybe except kubiak. I think he wanted Schaub to play hero.
I'd really like to see the All 22 on this. From where I was sitting and TV replays, looked like K-Mart was open.
 

Carr Bombed

Hall of Fame
I don't see what's so interesting about the quote.

He basically said Matt Schaub will still have a job in the NFL... and he will. Everything Kubiak said is true.
 

chicagotexan2

Fire Fat Travolta
Wow I wonder if any fans would be interested in buying a Matt Schaub blow up doll? It's never been used. Ah nevernind I'm sure some fans already have thier own in all jersey colors at that.
 

Vinny

shiny happy fan
I think this Matt Schaub situation is a great example of what you can do with stats and why you have to think outside the stat box when evaluating players. For years folks have made a case that Schaub was a hell of a QB because of his stat line. Sure the offense looks good on paper when you dink and dunk between the 20's like David Carr used to do. Lot's of first downs, lots of yardage...but that's because teams keep you in front of them since you can't stretch the field. Huge yardage totals for Schaub, Johnson and Foster but 3 FG's and a TD won't win most games. Carr checking down to Dom Davis when AJ wasn't open didn't do much for this team either...but the Carr fans all raved about how his qb rating, completion percentage and yardage totals were awesome. You gotta look past the stat line and read between the lines a little more to determine what's what out there.
 


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