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What is Laremy Tunsil's worth in a trade?

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
My last comment on the Tunsil FUBAR until the next Texans SNAFU....

RESTRUCTURING CONTRACTS TO MORTGAGE FUTURE SALARY CAPS IN THE FIRST YEAR OF REBUILDING WHEN ALL YOU ARE DOING IS REARRANGING THE CHAIRS ON THE TITANIC IS VERY BAD MANAGEMENT!
With the new TV deals coming into place this wont be as big of an issue as you think it's going to be. Plus dumping DW4's contract should put the Texans in good cap shape for the next 4-5 yrs.
 

Texian

Hall of Fame
With the new TV deals coming into place this wont be as big of an issue as you think it's going to be. Plus dumping DW4's contract should put the Texans in good cap shape for the next 4-5 yrs.
TV contract revenues do not start until 2023 season I think. This doesn't excuse you from being a lobotomized lunatic GM in 2021. There is a high propensity that lobotomized lunacy in 2021 will carry over into 2022, 2023 before they will finally remove the Abdula Oblongata. You might want to check with Doc on this.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
TV contract revenues do not start until 2023 season I think. This doesn't excuse you from being a lobotomized lunatic GM in 2021. There is a high propensity that lobotomized lunacy in 2021 will carry over into 2022, 2023 before they will finally remove the Abdula Oblongata. You might want to check with Doc on this.
The GM is a lunatic because you disagree with a couple of restructures of contracts.

Speaking of looney, do you realize how looney this sounds?

What I will say is the team is going to suck next yr. These restructures for guys that Caserio sees as building blocks aren't going to make or break the rebuild.
 

Texian

Hall of Fame
Obviously they want to keep Tunsil and Cooks to help the young QB that will be drafted. They see them as mentors for the young guys in the rebuild. You dont.

I told you they were going to redo Cooks deal and keep him here.
Restructuring their contracts has absolutely nothing to do with keeping Cooks and Tunsil around. It has everything to do with going to the bank TODAY and borrowing against your income in 2022, 2023 and 2024, with an agreement with the league to withhold the borrowed amount from your income in equal annual withholdings in 2022, 2023 and 2024.

Now say it with me, BORROWING MONEY FROM 2022,2023, 2024 TO SHUFFLE CHAIRS ON THE TITANIC IN 2021 IS A VERY BAD MANAGMENT DECISION. IT'S LOBOTOMIZED LUNATIC BAD.
 

Texian

Hall of Fame
The GM is a lunatic because you disagree with a couple of restructures of contracts.

Speaking of looney, do you realize how looney this sounds?

What I will say is the team is going to suck next yr. These restructures for guys that Caserio sees as building blocks aren't going to make or break the rebuild.
Lighten up Francis....you don't need to take everything so serious.....I'm sorry you don't understand the concept of pizzing good money down the drain.
 

Texian

Hall of Fame
The GM is a lunatic because you disagree with a couple of restructures of contracts.

Speaking of looney, do you realize how looney this sounds?

What I will say is the team is going to suck next yr. These restructures for guys that Caserio sees as building blocks aren't going to make or break the rebuild.
Relax, you're now so upset you're double posting. Lunatic GMs will do that to you.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Lighten up Francis....you don't need to take everything so serious.....I'm sorry you don't understand the concept of pizzing good money down the drain.
I understand the value of leadership.

Something that's been lacking on the Texans for far to long.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Restructuring their contracts has absolutely nothing to do with keeping Cooks and Tunsil around. It has everything to do with going to the bank TODAY and borrowing against your income in 2022, 2023 and 2024, with an agreement with the league to withhold the borrowed amount from your income in equal annual withholdings in 2022, 2023 and 2024.

Now say it with me, BORROWING MONEY FROM 2022,2023, 2024 TO SHUFFLE CHAIRS ON THE TITANIC IN 2021 IS A VERY BAD MANAGMENT DECISION. IT'S LOBOTOMIZED LUNATIC BAD.
Do you see the Texans being players in the 2022 FA market? I dont. 2022 is about rebuilding through the draft. After that they might be able to spend some $$$$ on top tier FA's. With a rookie QB this team isn't going to be a contender for atleast a couple of yrs until the new QB gets some experience.
 

Texian

Hall of Fame
I understand the value of leadership.

Something that's been lacking on the Texans for far to long.
Do you see the Texans being players in the 2022 FA market? I dont. 2022 is about rebuilding through the draft. After that they might be able to spend some $$$$ on top tier FA's. With a rookie QB this team isn't going to be a contender for at least a couple of yrs until the new QB gets some experience.
I was trying to bring some levity to the situation with the lobotomy and Abdula Oblongata. Either my attempt at humor is lacking or your funny bone is missing. I guess I should leave the humor to @Thorn.

Here is my bottom line: I didn't see Texans as players in 2021 FA. I don't know what Texans will do in 2022 or 2023.... Here is what I do know, in 2022 DW4 has a $40MM cap hit, Tunsil now has a $26MM cap hit and Cooks now has a $15MM cap hit. That's $81MM cap hit for 3 players. I also know that the 2022 and 2023 bank accounts will have over $8MM LESS starting the league new year. For What? A game of musical chairs? Seriously.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
What I will say is the team is going to suck next yr. These restructures for guys that Caserio sees as building blocks aren't going to make or break the rebuild.
I can see your point concerning Hargreaves, Cooks, & Johnson. Their contracts were extended.

Tunsil’s contract length didn’t change. This was just an accounting thing.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
I agree with you and can see the parallels but let me ask you, do you think part of what has put them in no man land is trying to see what they have and make the Derek Carr experiment work? They have seemed hell bent of him being their franchise guy and to me Carr has flashes but no consistency.

Putting aside the current Watson situation and let’s assume best, and miraculous, scenario of Watson staying in Houston or Texans drafting one of the top QBs in the next draft. Do you think the Raiders method might have worked better with better QB play?
I was starting to look at the Raiders' situation and I don't see Derek as a poor QB.
He actually ranked in the top 10 four times (PFF and a few other lists) and made the Pro Bowl 3 times.
The offensive line plays a good part in his performance (that goes without saying).
When the line was ranked high, Carr's performance rose; that's easy enough to see.

(And Gruden is making wholesale change again on the Oline as we speak.)

But obviously, Carr isn't an elite QB; and an elite QB can help the Oline situation some.

The GM, IMO, just have to see what he has and choose a course of action.
For that reason, I have some sympathy for NC, as he doesn't know how the QB's situation is going to play out.
And we don't know what he knows about the depth of the situation, which makes it even harder to see what his real strategy is.

I'd just rather wait for more info in the coming weeks/months.

As for your main question, I think with an elite QB, you should be in the win-now mode.
And Gruden's approach wouldn't work.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
The GM is a lunatic because you disagree with a couple of restructures of contracts.

Speaking of looney, do you realize how looney this sounds?

What I will say is the team is going to suck next yr. These restructures for guys that Caserio sees as building blocks aren't going to make or break the rebuild.

Hey one member said he has lost all respect for NC behind the restructuring of one players contract. Lol some fans literally goes way overboard.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I was trying to bring some levity to the situation with the lobotomy and Abdula Oblongata. Either my attempt at humor is lacking or your funny bone is missing. I guess I should leave the humor to @Thorn.

Here is my bottom line: I didn't see Texans as players in 2021 FA. I don't know what Texans will do in 2022 or 2023.... Here is what I do know, in 2022 DW4 has a $40MM cap hit, Tunsil now has a $26MM cap hit and Cooks now has a $15MM cap hit. That's $81MM cap hit for 3 players. I also know that the 2022 and 2023 bank accounts will have over $8MM LESS starting the league new year. For What? A game of musical chairs? Seriously.
Yeah, I'm not high.

Tells me DW4 isn't going to be on the team.
 

TheRealJoker

Hall of Fame
Do you see the Texans being players in the 2022 FA market? I dont. 2022 is about rebuilding through the draft. After that they might be able to spend some $$$$ on top tier FA's. With a rookie QB this team isn't going to be a contender for atleast a couple of yrs until the new QB gets some experience.
I agree 2022 will be about rebuilding through the draft. The team will finally have a full set of draft picks again now that OB is gone trading picks and pro bowlers for Costco hot dog/drink combos.

Which sets up nicely for gaining compensatory picks in the following drafts if we let certain players on one year deals sign elsewhere that were starters and played significantly for this year's Texans.

EX: I'd assume if Tyrod starts a full 16 game season and signs elsewhere next season he's worth a 3rd round comp pick. Drafting his replacement shouldn't affect the formula and Finley will have another year on contract as backup.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I agree 2022 will be about rebuilding through the draft. The team will finally have a full set of draft picks again now that OB is gone trading picks and pro bowlers for Costco hot dog/drink combos.

Which sets up nicely for gaining compensatory picks in the following drafts if we let certain players on one year deals sign elsewhere that were starters and played significantly for this year's Texans.

EX: I'd assume if Tyrod starts a full 16 game season and signs elsewhere next season he's worth a 3rd round comp pick. Drafting his replacement shouldn't affect the formula and Finley will have another year on contract as backup.
At some point the drafted rookie QB most likely will play in his rookie yr.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
The superstar wide receiver said this week that the Chiefs asked him to restructure his contract, though he was not for it.

Hill, 27, signed a three-year, $54 million contract extension with the Chiefs in 2019.

“Believe this or not, I’m not going to get too much into the details on it, the Chiefs did ask me to restructure,” Hill told FOX 4 reporter Pat McGonigle on Thursday. “Me and my family, we just thought that [wasn’t] the best situation for me. So, it is what it is. Like I said, I’m just here to play football. I just let my family and my agent deal with all that because I feel like if I get into that, then all the fun will be taken out of it for me. So I just want to play ball.

Like I said props to Tunsil for being a team player.
 

Jack Burton

Waterboy
The superstar wide receiver said this week that the Chiefs asked him to restructure his contract, though he was not for it.

Hill, 27, signed a three-year, $54 million contract extension with the Chiefs in 2019.

“Believe this or not, I’m not going to get too much into the details on it, the Chiefs did ask me to restructure,” Hill told FOX 4 reporter Pat McGonigle on Thursday. “Me and my family, we just thought that [wasn’t] the best situation for me. So, it is what it is. Like I said, I’m just here to play football. I just let my family and my agent deal with all that because I feel like if I get into that, then all the fun will be taken out of it for me. So I just want to play ball.

Like I said props to Tunsil for being a team player.
5DB3DB37-A007-42C5-A09D-231B7C13F4D3.gif
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
The superstar wide receiver said this week that the Chiefs asked him to restructure his contract, though he was not for it.

Hill, 27, signed a three-year, $54 million contract extension with the Chiefs in 2019.

“Believe this or not, I’m not going to get too much into the details on it, the Chiefs did ask me to restructure,” Hill told FOX 4 reporter Pat McGonigle on Thursday. “Me and my family, we just thought that [wasn’t] the best situation for me. So, it is what it is. Like I said, I’m just here to play football. I just let my family and my agent deal with all that because I feel like if I get into that, then all the fun will be taken out of it for me. So I just want to play ball.

Like I said props to Tunsil for being a team player.
Hill's contract was set up to be more complex than Tunsil's.


I don't see how a restructure would help him.
His base salary is very low.

He was due nearly $12M in bonus on Mar 19.
That would be best for him to take the money now.

The only way I can see to restructure his contract is for the Chiefs to defer his payments into future years.

But nobody wants to throw away the money they already have in hand.
 

Speedy

Yeller Dweller
So he has no value in a trade as a pro bowl left tackle? Seems like that would be worth something. Especially if it's a June 1st trade.
Yeah, you can trade him June 1, but what’s the point then? The draft is over, and it only saves $990k of cap, might as well play him in ‘21, trade him after the season when you can shave off $17M, if you’re still wanting to trade him.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
Hill's contract was set up to be more complex than Tunsil's.


I don't see how a restructure would help him.
His base salary is very low.

He was due nearly $12M in bonus on Mar 19.
That would be best for him to take the money now.

The only way I can see to restructure his contract is for the Chiefs to defer his payments into future years.

But nobody wants to throw away the money they already have in hand.
Understood. Point is he wasn’t going to take one for the team or help them out. They didn’t think about the cap when they hooked all of their special players with juicy fat contracts
 

IDEXAN

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
Hill's contract was set up to be more complex than Tunsil's.


I don't see how a restructure would help him.
His base salary is very low.

He was due nearly $12M in bonus on Mar 19.
That would be best for him to take the money now.

The only way I can see to restructure his contract is for the Chiefs to defer his payments into future years.

But nobody wants to throw away the money they already have in hand.
I think Brett Veach is already discussing trade with Caserio, because they missed out on Trent Williams and with their long-time LT Eric Fichsers departure they are very concerned about MaHomes backside protection, especially after that pathetic SB performance by their OLine.
 

Lucky

Not like this. Not like this.
Staff member
I think Brett Veach is already discussing trade with Caserio, because they missed out on Trent Williams and with their long-time LT Eric Fichsers departure they are very concerned about MaHomes backside protection, especially after that pathetic SB performance by their OLine.
The problem is that the Chiefs have less than $500k in cap space. They can't sign a backup long snapper, now.

If the Texans did trade Tunsil to another team, I'd have to question the wisdom of taking an additional $15 million cap hit by renegotiating his contract.
 

Lucky

Not like this. Not like this.
Staff member
Like I said props to Tunsil for being a team player.
I don't see how a restructure would help him.
His base salary is very low.

He was due nearly $12M in bonus on Mar 19.
That would be best for him to take the money now.

The only way I can see to restructure his contract is for the Chiefs to defer his payments into future years.
@76Texan is correct, the two contracts aren't remotely the same. Hill has a $12 million roster bonus. But, only 2 years left on his deal. I'm sure KC wanted to extend Hill, and take the bonus out into future years. But, Hill will get a chance at free agency in 2023, and will be young enough (28) to still be viable on the market.

Tunsil didn't have to extend to help the Texans. Just take $15 million upfront. No issues for him, he gave up nothing.
 

IDEXAN

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
The problem is that the Chiefs have less than $500k in cap space. They can't sign a backup long snapper, now.

If the Texans did trade Tunsil to another team, I'd have to question the wisdom of taking an additional $15 million cap hit by renegotiating his contract.
But if a trade brought in a first round & multiple mid round picks wouldn't you a take a second look at the cost-benefit of that 15M cap hit ?
A far as the Chiefs being short on cap space right now my money is on Veach to find the additional CS, even if that means a redux of
P.MaHomes restructure. One way or the other, I believe he'd figure it out.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Yeah, you can trade him June 1, but what’s the point then? The draft is over, and it only saves $990k of cap, might as well play him in ‘21, trade him after the season when you can shave off $17M, if you’re still wanting to trade him.
Trade after June 1 and his dead is spread rather than hitting this season. Also whoever you trade with uses the draft picks you get to select your players. For example, LAC selects whom Houston wants at #13.
 

Lucky

Not like this. Not like this.
Staff member
Trade after June 1 and his dead is spread rather than hitting this season. Also whoever you trade with uses the draft picks you get to select your players. For example, LAC selects whom Houston wants at #13.
That's not going to happen. Can't make the trade official and one of the teams could back out. Tunsil is here at least another season.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
That's not going to happen. Can't make the trade official and one of the teams could back out. Tunsil is here at least another season.
I can see no reason for either team to back out as Texans need different players and l a c in this example needs Tunsil. I am not saying it will happen but that it could. It's interesting to look at all possibilities.
 

Speedy

Yeller Dweller
Trade after June 1 and his dead is spread rather than hitting this season. Also whoever you trade with uses the draft picks you get to select your players. For example, LAC selects whom Houston wants at #13.
This ain’t the NBA. It doesn’t work like that.
 

IDEXAN

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
I think KC will look for a cheaper solution, both in $$$ and draft picks.
The 49ers coughed up a 6 year 138 million $ contract (with > 50 M guaranteed) for 33 year old Trent Williams, so I have got to think
that 26 year old Laremy Tunsil is worth atleast a first and a couple midround picks ? Atleast.
And the Chiefs are picking 31 this year and to get one of the top LTs in this years Draft they will have to package multiple picks (might include
two firsts), to move up far enough.
Considering those alternatives, Tunsil starts to look better and better.
 

IDEXAN

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
Except Caserio nixed that option by changing Tunsil's salary to a signing bonus. I don't know if using Tunsil as trade bait would have been a good idea before the restructure. I just know it's a bad idea, now.
I'm about as smart as a box of rocks when it comes to the nuances of cap space management.
All I know about conversion of current salary to bonus is that it basically means for accounting/book purposes deferment of recognition to future years of current cash outlays on the books/cap space.
So I dunno how does that limit or have an adverse effect upon the Texans opportunity to trade Tunsil ?
 

Lucky

Not like this. Not like this.
Staff member
So I dunno how does that limit or have an adverse effect upon the Texans opportunity to trade Tunsil ?
If the Texans were to trade Tunsil before this draft, the two bonuses he's received would become immediately due on the cap. That would be an additional $26 million cap hit, with $35 million in dead money. Thee Texans don't have enough players to cut to free up $26 million. It's a complete no go.

Had the Texans traded Tunsil prior to the restructure, the cap hit would have been $10 million. Minus his $16 million salary, the Texans would have actually gained $6 million to the cap. That tells me they weren't interested in trading Tunsil. So that makes all of this pretty much moot. 2023 is really the earliest the Texans could trade Tunsil without taking on significant dead money to the cap.
 

IDEXAN

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
If the Texans were to trade Tunsil before this draft, the two bonuses he's received would become immediately due on the cap. That would be an additional $26 million cap hit, with $35 million in dead money. Thee Texans don't have enough players to cut to free up $26 million. It's a complete no go.

Had the Texans traded Tunsil prior to the restructure, the cap hit would have been $10 million. Minus his $16 million salary, the Texans would have actually gained $6 million to the cap. That tells me they weren't interested in trading Tunsil. So that makes all of this pretty much moot. 2023 is really the earliest the Texans could trade Tunsil without taking on significant dead money to the cap.
OK did not know.
But good to know, Lucky thanks for schooling me on that point, appreciate it !
 

Lucky

Not like this. Not like this.
Staff member
I'm not sure why people keep talking like there was ever any interest in trading Tunsil. If Texans weren't going to trade Watson, who actually did want out, why would they trade their pro bowl LT? I get it sounds fun from a "How much could we get for him" and fantasy football wise thats fine but no one should have ever taken it seriously.
There are members that are huge fans of the draft and want an immediate rebuild. It's just not possible this offseason. This Texans rebuild will be a slow and painful process. Like a lot of rebuilds, the current group in the front office and coaching staff may not survive to see the fruit of their labor.
 

Thorn

Dirty Old Man
There are members that are huge fans of the draft and want an immediate rebuild. It's just not possible this offseason. This Texans rebuild will be a slow and painful process. Like a lot of rebuilds, the current group in the front office and coaching staff may not survive to see the fruit of their labor.
I agree. It's going to be a while before the Texans work their way out of this mud hole. For now, the news drama is all we have for excitement.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
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There are members that are huge fans of the draft and want an immediate rebuild. It's just not possible this offseason. This Texans rebuild will be a slow and painful process. Like a lot of rebuilds, the current group in the front office and coaching staff may not survive to see the fruit of their labor.
We signed Tyrod Taylor.


Don’t need no stinking rebuild.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
There are members that are huge fans of the draft and want an immediate rebuild. It's just not possible this offseason. This Texans rebuild will be a slow and painful process. Like a lot of rebuilds, the current group in the front office and coaching staff may not survive to see the fruit of their labor.
True

But if Caserio is able to trade DW4 then that should speed along the process.
 


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