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What is Laremy Tunsil's worth in a trade?

badboy

Hall of Fame
It is looking more and more to me as if we will not be NFL competitive until 2023. Why do we need laremy tunsil until then which is the last year of his contract? $27 million.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Interesting? Not really. There are 22 starters, so a top 50 would entail a bit more than the top 2 at each position. PFF has Tunsil rated as the 8th best OT. I wouldn't expect him to be rated as an overall top 50.
Consecutive year pro bowler? Even so 8th best offensive tackle makes me not want him after 2021 due to his contract. Having said that my point of view has been we have to trade him this season for a team to want to pick up the following two high dollar years. Barring a major trade for Watson, I do not see Houston competing for deep into playoff run until the 2023 season.
$35.4 million cap hit for next two seasons for LT doesn't thrill me.
 

Texian

Hall of Fame
Consecutive year pro bowler? Even so 8th best offensive tackle makes me not want him after 2021 due to his contract. Having said that my point of view has been we have to trade him this season for a team to want to pick up the following two high dollar years. Barring a major trade for Watson, I do not see Houston competing for deep into playoff run until the 2023 season.
$35.4 million cap hit for next two seasons for LT doesn't thrill me.
Seeing how Caserio restructured Tunsil's, contract moving $15MM to future years, this created $35MM in dead cap money in 2021 and $26MM in dead cap money in 2022 making it prohibitive to trade Tunsil. 2023 there is $8MM dead cap $ that Texans like eat if Tunsil decides not stick around. I'm afraid you're stuck with Tunsil.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Seeing how Caserio restructured Tunsil's, contract moving $15MM to future years, this created $35MM in dead cap money in 2021 and $26MM in dead cap money in 2022 making it prohibitive to trade Tunsil. 2023 there is $8MM dead cap $ that Texans like eat if Tunsil decides not stick around. I'm afraid you're stuck with Tunsil.
Trade now has dead money at $8 this year an $16 following season. I think you are reading the numbers incorrectly. I suggest you look@overthecap.com Post June 1st trade
 

Texian

Hall of Fame
Trade now has dead money at $8 this year an $16 following season. I think you are reading the numbers incorrectly. I suggest you look@overthecap.com Post June 1st trade
No interest in emailing over the cap. Right now Tunsil has a signing bonus of $3.25MM spread over 21,22,23 or $9.75MM. His salary was suppose to be $16MM this year but was restructured to only pay $990K in 21. $15MM was converted to restructure bonus or $5MM in 21,22,23. If Tunsil is cut or traded all of those bonuses become due against the salary cap immediately or $24.75 in 21, $16.5MM in 22 and $8.350MM in 22. No way around it.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
No interest in emailing over the cap. Right now Tunsil has a signing bonus of $3.25MM spread over 21,22,23 or $9.75MM. His salary was suppose to be $16MM this year but was restructured to only pay $990K in 21. $15MM was converted to restructure bonus or $5MM in 21,22,23. If Tunsil is cut or traded all of those bonuses become due against the salary cap immediately or $24.75 in 21, $16.5MM in 22 and $8.350MM in 22. No way around it.
The way around it is in a post June 1st trade which you seem to be ignoring. You are correct about the restructure but in a post June 1st trade restructure $5,053,333 + his prorated signing bonus of $3,250,000 become due this season. The remaining restructure plus base becomes due in 2022. That's the purpose of a June 1st trade.

Due 2021 prorated SB $3.25+5 m restructure = the $8 m I posted earlier and in 2022 the remaining SB and restructure are due.

Perhaps I am wrong but then so are well respected spotrac and OTC and IIRC Corrosion agreed with me also.

The difference in our opinions are you say all bonus and restructure become due this season and mine is a post June 1 allows team to break those into two seasons per the CBA.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Seeing how Caserio restructured Tunsil's, contract moving $15MM to future years, this created $35MM in dead cap money in 2021 and $26MM in dead cap money in 2022 making it prohibitive to trade Tunsil. 2023 there is $8MM dead cap $ that Texans like eat if Tunsil decides not stick around. I'm afraid you're stuck with Tunsil.
Caserio sees Tunsil as a cornerstone guy.

After seeing Carr/Pervert get the crap beat out of them because of poor OL play, (Particularly LT play) you would think fans would appreciate having a LT that is one of the best at protecting their QB's blindside.
 

Texian

Hall of Fame
The way around it is in a post June 1st trade which you seem to be ignoring. You are correct about the restructure but in a post June 1st trade restructure $5,053,333 + his prorated signing bonus of $3,250,000 become due this season. The remaining restructure plus base becomes due in 2022. That's the purpose of a June 1st trade.

Due 2021 prorated SB $3.25+5 m restructure = the $8 m I posted earlier and in 2022 the remaining SB and restructure are due.

Perhaps I am wrong but then so are well respected spotrac and OTC and IIRC Corrosion agreed with me also.

The difference in our opinions are you say all bonus and restructure become due this season and mine is a post June 1 allows team to break those into two seasons per the CBA.
No you're not wrong. I understand all that. I just can't understand why anyone would want to push $16MM in dead money into 2022 so they only have to pay $8MM in 2021. In my mind, that is just poor irresponsible money management. A type of fiscal irresponsibility that promotes mediocre football teams. It's just another case of living in the minute instead of planning for the future. 2021 is the year you would want to take out all of the trash. Why would you to bag up your 2021 trash only to take it out in 2022? Then again I don't own anyone a dime and I pay all my bills in full every month.
 
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Texian

Hall of Fame
Caserio sees Tunsil as a cornerstone guy.

After seeing Carr/Pervert get the crap beat out of them because of poor OL play, (Particularly LT play) you would think fans would appreciate having a LT that is one of the best at protecting their QB's blindside.
I understand all of this but the discussion was centered on what is Tunsil's trade value. My point was not much because his signing bonus and restructuring bonus that would become dead money against the cap make trading Tunsil cost prohibitive.

I don't know how Caserio sees Tunsil or other players. Nick pretty much turned the early part of the draft over to Pep Hamilton and Jack Easterby.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I understand all of this but the discussion was centered on what is Tunsil's trade value. My point was not much because his signing bonus and restructuring bonus that would become dead money against the cap make trading Tunsil cost prohibitive.

I don't know how Caserio sees Tunsil or other players. Nick pretty much turned the early part of the draft over to Pep Hamilton and Jack Easterby.
You dont like the upside of Collins/Jordan, or for that matter Mills?

I love the fact Caserio gambled on high upside guys, instead of guys that appear to have already maxed out like Greenard.

I get what you're saying about Tunsil and the cap. That's what BB doesn't seem to understand, Caserio's actions say he views Tunsil as a foundational piece. He's not being traded anytime soon. BTW, after seeing Carr/Pervert get the crap beat out of them I agree with Caserio on this and no, this doesn't make me a fanboy.

Got another question for you, Chase Winovich who's a good pass rusher for the Pats is rumored to be available, would you trad for him and if you would what do you think his value is?
 
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Texian

Hall of Fame
You dont like the upside of Collins/Jordan, or for that matter Mills?

I love the fact Caserio gambled on high upside guys, instead of guys that appear to have already maxed out like Greenard.

I get what you're saying about Tunsil and the cap. That's what BB doesn't seem to understand, Caserio's actions say he views Tunsil as a foundational piece. He's not being traded anytime soon. BTW, after seeing Carr/Pervert get the crap beat out of them I agree with Caserio on this and no, this doesn't make me a fanboy.

Got another question for you, Chase Winovich who's a good pass rusher for the Pats is rumored to be available, would you trad for him and if you would what do you think his value is?
You dont like the upside of Collins/Jordan, or for that matter Mills?
I like the upside of Quinn Meinerz, Bobby Brown III, Tommy Togiai, Ihmir Smith-Marsette, Brenden Jaimes, Tay Gowans much much better. Collins will start for Texans not convinced he could start for half the teams in NFL. Also not sure he will see a 2nd contract.

As for Mills, I see a better upside from Howell, Rattler and possibly Slovis, Ridder and Willis.

Winovich is prototypical Pats 3-4 OLB. Smart, fast enough but not that strong, avg athlete. I don't know how he fits in Lovie's 4-3, maybe out of position. Since Winovich is from a Caserio Pats draft, no doubt Nick would be all over this. He probably loves the guy. I'm also confident that coach Belichick will fleece Nick Caserio if Bill were to trade Winovich. To be honest (doesn't apply to Winovich) I would not be surprised if Nick traded away the Texans 1st RD pick or one of the their first 3 picks in the 2022 draft. I'm almost expecting it.


no, this doesn't make me a fanboy.

No I don't see you as a fanboy, keeping Tunsil makes sense, restructuring $15MM of contract does not. Finding a Tunsil replacement should be a top priority since Tunsil might be gone after next year.

I have most of the Kool Aid Brigade on Ignore (15 or so). Therefore I have self appointed you as their official spokesperson. :)
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Trade now has dead money at $8 this year an $16 following season. I think you are reading the numbers incorrectly. I suggest you look@overthecap.com Post June 1st trade
Wow... I never thought about it like that. Caserio has made an untradeable contract very tradeable.

If we trade Tunsil after June 1st it's + $900K on the cap in 2021 & only - $450K in 2022. + $18M in 2023
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
No you're not wrong. I understand all that. I just can't understand why anyone would want to push $16MM in dead money into 2022 so they only have to pay $8MM in 2021. In my mind, that is just poor irresponsible money management. A type of fiscal irresponsibility that promotes mediocre football teams. It's just another case of living in the minute instead of planning for the future. 2021 is the year you would want to take out all of the trash. Why would you to bag up your 2021 trash only to take it out in 2022? Then again I don't own anyone a dime and I pay all my bills in full every month.
You are starting from good place of no debt which is admirable but not where Houston is.
Sometimes when you're in credit card hell you push debt into future where there is more income available as there will be in 2022. Having said that, there is nothing saying that the texans cannot take the dead hit in 2021. The goal is to move high contract players that do not benefit you in moving your team closer to the playoffs this season.

I recognized that Laramie Tunsil is a high impact left tackle but in my opinion we do not need that to protect the quarterbacks we have today. In my opinion it would be better to use capspace elsewhere even if it's to roll into 2022.

I agree pushing debt is not a sound ongoing way to do business but it did get me out of trouble and onto a better plan. If we knew we could move Tunsil after 2021 for a comparable deal That I believe we could get now, I would be for that as his cap hit of approximately 9.3 million dollars is really good for 2021.
Also if I knew that Davis Mills was going to be the starting QB for 2022 and we would have a playoff competitive team that year it would make it easier to swallow the cap hit in Tunsil's last two contract years.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
You are starting from good place of no debt which is admirable but not where Houston is.
Sometimes when you're in credit card hell you push debt into future where there is more income available as there will be in 2022. Having said that, there is nothing saying that the texans cannot take the dead hit in 2021. The goal is to move high contract players that do not benefit you in moving your team closer to the playoffs this season.

I recognized that Laramie Tunsil is a high impact left tackle but in my opinion we do not need that to protect the quarterbacks we have today. In my opinion it would be better to use capspace elsewhere even if it's to roll into 2022.

I agree pushing debt is not a sound ongoing way to do business but it did get me out of trouble and onto a better plan. If we knew we could move Tunsil after 2021 for a comparable deal That I believe we could get now, I would be for that as his cap hit of approximately 9.3 million dollars is really good for 2021.
Also if I knew that Davis Mills was going to be the starting QB for 2022 and we would have a playoff competitive team that year it would make it easier to swallow the cap hit in Tunsil's last two contract years.
I want the best LT possible to protect the young QB.

Going cheap to save salary cap money, when you've got a bunch of guys on 1 yr deals and a for sure big bump in the cap coming doesn't seem like a good idea to me. Pound wise/Penny foolish
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
All those years we clamored for a good LT.

Now we think it's a good idea to trade him? :crazy:

:coffee:
I’d be ok with good. LT is a bit over qualified, imo. I’m not advocating to trade him, only saying it’s more possible now than before the restructuring.

There was a time when our best option was Davenport & Khalil. No price imo was too high at that time.

Now we have better options.

I’m perfectly fine with keeping Tunsil, even resigning him to the most lucrative contract ever. If they hit on Mills, it would be nice to have that position locked down
 

cuppacoffee

Resident Grouch
I’d be ok with good. LT is a bit over qualified, imo. I’m not advocating to trade him, only saying it’s more possible now than before the restructuring.

There was a time when our best option was Davenport & Khalil. No price imo was too high at that time.

Now we have better options.

I’m perfectly fine with keeping Tunsil, even resigning him to the most lucrative contract ever. If they hit on Mills, it would be nice to have that position locked down
Do we have a left tackle waiting in the wings to replace Tunsil? idonno:

If not I would keep him around.

:coffee:
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
All those years we clamored for a good LT.

Now we think it's a good idea to trade him? :crazy:

:coffee:
Looking at only having a good car and not what you could get for a trade of that car which could be a brand new car that could be as good for millions of dollars less plus a ski boat plus a motorcycle plus a golf cart with all the trimmings...

That is loca en cabesa, coffee drinker.
 

cuppacoffee

Resident Grouch
Looking at only having a good car and not what you could get for a trade of that car which could be a brand new car that could be as good for millions of dollars less plus a ski boat plus a motorcycle plus a golf cart with all the trimmings...

That is loca en Cabeza, coffee drinker.

That is a huge could be.

Fantasy scenario. Could be trading in a good car for a lemon. How did that last ski boat work out for you? :hmmm:

:coffee:
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
That is a huge could be.

Fantasy scenario. Could be trading in a good car for a lemon. How did that last ski boat work out for you? :hmmm:

:coffee:
You obviously have not been keeping up with NFL trades such as the jets trading Jamal Adams to Seattle for two1st round picks, a 3rd round pick and a starting safety.

2 time left tackle should bring similar.

The last Ski boat I had was in 1975 and it was great. I should have kept it instead of the girl.
 
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steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
You dont like the upside of Collins/Jordan, or for that matter Mills?
I like the upside of Quinn Meinerz, Bobby Brown III, Tommy Togiai, Ihmir Smith-Marsette, Brenden Jaimes, Tay Gowans much much better. Collins will start for Texans not convinced he could start for half the teams in NFL. Also not sure he will see a 2nd contract.

As for Mills, I see a better upside from Howell, Rattler and possibly Slovis, Ridder and Willis.

Winovich is prototypical Pats 3-4 OLB. Smart, fast enough but not that strong, avg athlete. I don't know how he fits in Lovie's 4-3, maybe out of position. Since Winovich is from a Caserio Pats draft, no doubt Nick would be all over this. He probably loves the guy. I'm also confident that coach Belichick will fleece Nick Caserio if Bill were to trade Winovich. To be honest (doesn't apply to Winovich) I would not be surprised if Nick traded away the Texans 1st RD pick or one of the their first 3 picks in the 2022 draft. I'm almost expecting it.


no, this doesn't make me a fanboy.

No I don't see you as a fanboy, keeping Tunsil makes sense, restructuring $15MM of contract does not. Finding a Tunsil replacement should be a top priority since Tunsil might be gone after next year.

I have most of the Kool Aid Brigade on Ignore (15 or so). Therefore I have self appointed you as their official spokesperson. :)
I dont consider myself part of the koolaid brigade. Caserio has done somethings I like and some I dont care for.

I dont see Caserio as a be all/end all. I do like the Tunsil extension and the risks on Mills/Collins he took in the draft.
 

cuppacoffee

Resident Grouch
You obviously have not been keeping up with NFL trades such as the jets trading Jamal Adams to Seattle for twp1st round picks, a 3rd round pick and a starting safety.

2 time left tackle should bring similar.

The last Ski boat I had was in 1975 and it was great. I should have kept it instead of the girl.

You are right, I don't follow other teams trades. We will have to wait awhile to judge Caserio's trading acumen.
Hard to not be better than his predecessor.

What you said about keeping the boat also applies to keeping Tunsil. The options aren't always better.

Sorry if I dredged up bad memories. I know you loved your ski boat. "badboy" wasn't it?

:coffee:
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
You are right, I don't follow other teams trades. We will have to wait awhile to judge Caserio's trading acumen.
Hard to not be better than his predecessor.

What you said about keeping the boat also applies to keeping Tunsil. The options aren't always better.

Sorry if I dredged up bad memories. I know you loved your ski boat. "badboy" wasn't it?

:coffee:
Oh I thought you were talking about a ski boat I had posted about. Bad boy was a 120 mile an hour go fast boat. Hurricane Ike destroyed it and that is probably what you were referring to.

I like Tunsil and as I've stated if I thought Davis Mills was the guy going forward I would consider keeping the left tackle.. I just think that this is a rebuilding season and 22 offers huge upside in the NFL draft.

Heck I wanted to trade Watson before the 2019 season and all thought I was crazy. If none of this with #4 had happened, I want Tunsil's protection.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
The point I was making was I wanted to trade Watson for I a huge trade package the same as I do with Tunsil even though others disagreed. This thread is not a one off.
Man you wanted to trade everybody. Even if we had a prime Tom Brady you would be typing up a trade proposal.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Man you wanted to trade everybody. Even if we had a prime Tom Brady you would be typing up a trade proposal.
If it betters the team you betcha. Look I am not pulling these trades out of my blue Jean back pocket.

Trade Tunsil to WFT for Chase Young 7.5 sacks 4 passes defended; good but not great. This would eliminate picking Thibodaux at 1.1 .

Watson to Detroit for 1.2 +
And 1.1 to Denver or Philly. Texans would head into 22 with a great chance to go deep into playoffs.
You do not need a 2 time pro bowler for average at best QBs.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
If it betters your team. Having a HOF quarterback enhances your team. You can’t trade away your best players like that badboy.
Well of course it does and I am not blind to that and of course to trade a hall of fame quarterback you would get a tremendous package or you would not consider the deal. Just consider what the rumors were about trading Watson before His accusers stepped forward in number. There was talk of three round ones and a generational player.

John McClain had said 2 firsts, 2 seconds and 2 young pros at need positions. That's for Watson and Brady in prime could triple that.
 

mws

Waterboy
I would like to think all of us are here because we are among the dwindling Texan fan base.

:coffee:
This may turn out to be a good thing in the long run. Since their inception the Texans have sold out every home game win or lose.

The Astros & Rockets have to win to get a full house & as far as I'm concerned it is way past the time that the Texans dealt with that reality. The only real path to change is to hit them in their bank account. Even then I have my doubts with this bunch.
 

cuppacoffee

Resident Grouch
This may turn out to be a good thing in the long run. Since their inception the Texans have sold out every home game win or lose.

The Astros & Rockets have to win to get a full house & as far as I'm concerned it is way past the time that the Texans dealt with that reality. The only real path to change is to hit them in their bank account. Even then I have my doubts with this bunch.
Nothing I do will affect the Texans bottom line.

I have heard reports that the line for PSL's is non-existent.

:coffee:
 

beerlover

Hall of Fame
Tunsil contract would net Texans one first and that would be a team picking end of first. Maybe throw in conditional 4th based on performance. O’Brian hosed the Texans and he’s not even here to be held accountable.
 
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steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Bengals and Steelers among teams needing OTs on upper 24 teams in 2022 draft. Tunsil should be worth at least that to them IMO.
Obviously the Bengals are currently happy with their OT's.

Otherwise they would've drafted Sewell.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Bengals selected WR Ja'mar Chase round 1 at LSU QB Burrows suggestion going with Carmon Jacksion round 2 and bringing in Reif in free agency. I expect Reif to be replaced at RT with Jonah Williams and LT to be addressed after this season. There is not a Tunsil in 22 draft or even a Penei Sewell at least as of now.

If I had Joe Burrows I would want Tunsil.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Bengals selected WR Ja'mar Chase round 1 at LSU QB Burrows suggestion going with Carmon Jacksion round 2 and bringing in Reif in free agency. I expect Reif to be replaced at RT with Jonah Williams and LT to be addressed after this season. There is not a Tunsil in 22 draft or even a Penei Sewell at least as of now.

If I had Joe Burrows I would want Tunsil.
What does the 2022 OT draft class look like?
 


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