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Watson & Tunsil Contracts

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
Wow sounds like an amazing deal for the 49ers so apparently O'Brien is not the only GM who gives away all-pro talent ?
What a crock ^^^ Lol!

Some people will do anything to save face for O'Brien. The Skins played as strong of hardball at keeping a player as anyone has. They didn't just deal away Trent Williams. He refused to play and went through with it all season, and they refused trade offers all year which were way better than what they received now. They finally had enough of dealing with him and his holdout, and they traded him for poor value. Typical Redskins management move. They didn't give away all pro talent though. They held onto him for over a year while he didn't even plan play which is something O'Brien is way to impatient and anxiety driven to do in these cases.
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
He is now signed for 4 years: 2020, 2021, 2022 and 2023

So this contract added 3 years
The problem is that many still don't understand the strategy of salary cap management and how rookie deals work. If they did, they'd realize that Miami fleeced the Texans like no other. Lol! They literally just got a good first round talent on a new rookie deal that they were currently paying Tunsil instead of having to extend him on the highest paid OT contract of all time.
 

Mr.Scarface

Waterboy
The problem is that many still don't understand the strategy of salary cap management and how rookie deals work. If they did, they'd realize that Miami fleeced the Texans like no other. Lol! They literally just got a good first round talent on a new rookie deal that they were currently paying Tunsil instead of having to extend him on the highest paid OT contract of all time.
You do realize would have gave up the same picks (maybe minus the 2nd rounder) to move up to get a Tackle in this draft? You give your 1 in this draft and a #1 in the next draft. It is really not 2 - 1st rounders. It is 1 - 1st (next draft) with a pick swap in the 1st round.
 
Isn't signing bonus always spread across the length of the contract?
Depending on how it's worded. I have seen the signing bonus paid up front and seen it spread out. I think based on the type of guy Watson seems to be it can probably be spread over a few years but I am fairly certain it will be garanteed.
 
OK so I'm feeling better about this deal now but on the other hand unless David Johnson plays in the next couple years like Adrian Peterson did in his prime the Hopkins deal is still indefensible IMO.
Yes... unless you take into account what Hopkins has said. In which case Cal (not OB to a degree) would have got him out of town fast. You don't want a player who is money hungry in the locker room. Much like Clowney who is leaving the Seahawks to get paid more, if Hopkins wanted hige $$$ on a pretty new 4 year deal. Better bto cut him loose seeing he was a team leader in the locker room than keep him. And Arizona was the only team it seems offering a good/decent deal.

I will wait till 8 games in to see what happens. Not a season like OB said
 

texan279

Hall of Fame
The Washington Redskins are trading Williams to the San Francisco 49ers in exchange for a 2020 fifth-round pick and 2021 third-round selection.

And we gave up two 1st's and a 2nd for Tunsil? Lol....start taking notes BOB....
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
And we gave up two 1st's and a 2nd for Tunsil? Lol....start taking notes BOB....
I hate BO'b, but while you have BO'b taking notes, Tunsil made the ProBowl with his play on the field helping his team to a division title & play off win.

There was no way we would have gotten Trent Williams last August for a 2020 5th & 2021 3rd.
 

texan279

Hall of Fame
I hate BO'b, but while you have BO'b taking notes, Tunsil made the ProBowl with his play on the field helping his team to a division title & play off win.

There was no way we would have gotten Trent Williams last August for a 2020 5th & 2021 3rd.
Tunsil also led the NFL in penalties. No, but we could have had Williams for one 2nd round pick, which was what Washington originally wanted. And Williams average yearly salary is $13.6 mil/year.
 

texan279

Hall of Fame
Williams was not & will not play for $13.6M, I thought he made that clear.
Mike Garafolo of NFL Network reports that the deal does not come with a contract extension for Williams. That will need to be handled down the road, should the 49ers choose to do so. Williams' contract runs through the 2020 season, which includes a base salary of $12.5 million. He is scheduled to become an unrestricted free agent next year.

 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Mike Garafolo of NFL Network reports that the deal does not come with a contract extension for Williams. That will need to be handled down the road, should the 49ers choose to do so. Williams' contract runs through the 2020 season, which includes a base salary of $12.5 million. He is scheduled to become an unrestricted free agent next year.

Does not change the fact. He will not play for $13M

Also reason why he was got so cheap. He's made it clear he will not play for $13M. SF may have thrown away those picks unless they can reach a deal with Williams.
 

texan279

Hall of Fame
Does not change the fact. He will not play for $13M

Also reason why he was got so cheap. He's made it clear he will not play for $13M. SF may have thrown away those picks unless they can reach a deal with Williams.
He will be playing for $13m this season. No one knows what happens in the future...
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
You do realize would have gave up the same picks (maybe minus the 2nd rounder) to move up to get a Tackle in this draft? You give your 1 in this draft and a #1 in the next draft. It is really not 2 - 1st rounders. It is 1 - 1st (next draft) with a pick swap in the 1st round.
Another guy that simply doesn't understand salary cap management and thinks that OB is a good coach/GM.

All that move did was show how desperate he was to keep his job after the season would be completed so he threw all future moves to the wind to save himself. The cap will be more difficult and other positions will become huge holes as I've said before. You don't go 4 out of 5 years without a 1st rounder like the Texans have since acquiring Watson. God, that is just crazy. But hey so many of you Texan fans are so used to losing and mediocrity that half the fun it seems like for you guys is to spin stuff for the owners and HC.

Dolphins sitting pretty with another OT already. :spit:
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
Mike Garafolo of NFL Network reports that the deal does not come with a contract extension for Williams. That will need to be handled down the road, should the 49ers choose to do so. Williams' contract runs through the 2020 season, which includes a base salary of $12.5 million. He is scheduled to become an unrestricted free agent next year.

Oh and when you look at the fact that Trent Williams was just had for a 3rd rounder!?

The activists for this trade continue to train wreck themselves. :spit:
 

texan279

Hall of Fame
No one knows the future but you're saying he will play this season without a new contract?

:ok:

I'm telling you, he'll have a new deal before the season starts.

“Trent has been out of football for a year and a half, and Trent made it clear to everyone he wants to come back and didn’t want to do a deal right away,” Shanahan said, via ESPN’s Nick Wagoner. “He wanted to play and try to get back into it and see where he was at with the rest of the league and pick up where he left off. That’s one of the reasons we were able to get him and get him for what we did. I think it really helped us in the situation we were in.”

Upon his arrival in the Bay Area, everyone was anxious to see if Williams was going to receive an extension. However, the veteran left tackle seems to be content with letting the 2020 season play out before that takes place.

After sitting out the 2019 season, Williams is betting on himself to perform well next season. Williams is entering the final year of his contract, carrying a cap hit of $12.5 million in 2020.


 

texan279

Hall of Fame
Another guy that simply doesn't understand salary cap management and thinks that OB is a good coach/GM.

All that move did was show how desperate he was to keep his job after the season would be completed so he threw all future moves to the wind to save himself. The cap will be more difficult and other positions will become huge holes as I've said before. You don't go 4 out of 5 years without a 1st rounder like the Texans have since acquiring Watson. God, that is just crazy. But hey so many of you Texan fans are so used to losing and mediocrity that half the fun it seems like for you guys is to spin stuff for the owners and HC.

Dolphins sitting pretty with another OT already. :spit:
I said it somewhere else on here the other day, but BOB is acting like he's playing Madden season mode. He's going to end up with 5-6 above average-elite types, mediocre-below average depth, and no draft capital. Basically how I played Madden when I was 14 years old.
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
Mike Garafolo of NFL Network reports that the deal does not come with a contract extension for Williams. That will need to be handled down the road, should the 49ers choose to do so. Williams' contract runs through the 2020 season, which includes a base salary of $12.5 million. He is scheduled to become an unrestricted free agent next year.

“Trent has been out of football for a year and a half, and Trent made it clear to everyone he wants to come back and didn’t want to do a deal right away,” Shanahan said, via ESPN’s Nick Wagoner. “He wanted to play and try to get back into it and see where he was at with the rest of the league and pick up where he left off. That’s one of the reasons we were able to get him and get him for what we did. I think it really helped us in the situation we were in.”

Upon his arrival in the Bay Area, everyone was anxious to see if Williams was going to receive an extension. However, the veteran left tackle seems to be content with letting the 2020 season play out before that takes place.

After sitting out the 2019 season, Williams is betting on himself to perform well next season. Williams is entering the final year of his contract, carrying a cap hit of $12.5 million in 2020.


Remember when fans swore up and down that we couldn't go into the season without Tunsil? That Watson would die? He'd be retired right now with Luck, remember?

Texans end up getting humiliated worse than the Oilers did with their 32 point loss to the Bills. Texans could have likely had a similar season with or without Tunsil last year just like they did the season before, and they've a lot more picks and a lot more salary cap to use for a more balanced team, especially on defense.

Funny thing is so many of the people that claim to hate OB continue to praise this move knowing they're lying to themselves.
 

theCATALYST

"Fake" Fan
Texans could have likely had a similar season with or without Tunsil last year just like they did the season before, and they've a lot more picks and a lot more salary cap to use for a more balanced team, especially on defense.
It is just as likely that without Tunsil, Watson may not have finished the season and depending on timing could have effected the 2020 season as well. One may never know. It was en expensive move, one that cost this team more than just money. But at the time, it was the right move. Could have been a perfect move if we signed the extension before finalizing the trade.....OB showed his desperation there.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
“Trent has been out of football for a year and a half, and Trent made it clear to everyone he wants to come back and didn’t want to do a deal right away,” Shanahan said, via ESPN’s Nick Wagoner. “He wanted to play and try to get back into it and see where he was at with the rest of the league and pick up where he left off. That’s one of the reasons we were able to get him and get him for what we did. I think it really helped us in the situation we were in.”

Upon his arrival in the Bay Area, everyone was anxious to see if Williams was going to receive an extension. However, the veteran left tackle seems to be content with letting the 2020 season play out before that takes place.

After sitting out the 2019 season, Williams is betting on himself to perform well next season. Williams is entering the final year of his contract, carrying a cap hit of $12.5 million in 2020.


Well this is new information. You win this round.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Funny thing is so many of the people that claim to hate OB continue to praise this move knowing they're lying to themselves.
I remember saying it’s too early to tell if the Tunsil/Stills/4th deal was worth it. I would need to see a contender in the AFCCG in 2020 or 2021.

Granted it’s not looking good after last year’s debacle, but it’s not over. BO’b will continue to make moves that will have repercussions. That will put this team in a bad spot.

But if we’re 5 minutes from winning the AFCCG game next year, then he got what he wanted. & we’ll see then if it was worth it.
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
It is just as likely that without Tunsil, Watson may nr 11-5ot have finished the season and depending on timing could have effected the 2020 season as well. One may never know. It was en expensive move, one that cost this team more than just money. But at the time, it was the right move. Could have been a perfect move if we signed the extension before finalizing the trade.....OB showed his desperation there.
What if, what if, what if........ At the time it was the right move.... :spit:

That's all that was used to justify this garbage ass trade. Nothing but "sky is falling" scenarios instead of the "actual facts" which was that Watson and the Texans just went 10-6 the season before and won their division and Watson "didn't get hurt." You don't mortgage that much of draft picks just for "one season" of protection when it can get handled the very next off season and you're now on the hook for a $22 Million dollar contract while your trading partner is now paying the same thing they were to your guy prior to making that trade.
 
The problem is that given these new contracts an injury to eithe Watson or Tunsil and you are totally sunk given how much is invested in them versus how much you can spread elsewhere.
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
I remember saying it’s too early to tell if the Tunsil/Stills/4th deal was worth it. I would need to see a contender in the AFCCG in 2020 or 2021.

Granted it’s not looking good after last year’s debacle, but it’s not over. BO’b will continue to make moves that will have repercussions. That will put this team in a bad spot.

But if we’re 5 minutes from winning the AFCCG game next year, then he got what he wanted. & we’ll see then if it was worth it.
Bro you flip flopped on this trade more times than I can count.

All you have to do is look at the position the Dolphins are in now, and this is real simple. I explained all of this last off season and at this point its your ego that won't allow you to call this crap what it is. If nothing else it would have been waaaayy better for the Texans to stink and for Watson to get hurt if that is what was going to happen. Then, you'd likely have O'Brien out of here, Hopkins is still here and you'd have a lot more draft picks to use for a new HC and GM. But the "2019 season" was more important to you than getting rid of O'Brien and looking at the future. Tunsil was never getting them to the SB in 2019. Some of you will cling onto this idea that O'Brien will somehow get this all figured out, and all he keeps doing is dragging his HC regime out further and further.
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
I don’t believe a shitty 2019 would have ousted Bill O’Brien.
You don't "believe" but you have no facts to suggest that. He likely would have been fired three yrs ago if he didn't get lucky and have all of those guys get injured like Watson and Watt. His team going on that fools gold run last season was one of the worst things to happen to them, because it bought him another year or two assuming his team didn't crash and burn. Had It crashed and burned he likely would have been gone. Not for certain, but a very high chance considering it was like his 8th season as a HC and not one legit playoff win until that Bills game he almost blew as well a few months ago. (No one considers that Raiders win legit without Carr playing that year.)
 

theCATALYST

"Fake" Fan
What if, what if, what if........ At the time it was the right move.... :spit:

That's all that was used to justify this garbage ass trade. Nothing but "sky is falling" scenarios instead of the "actual facts" which was that Watson and the Texans just went 10-6 the season before and won their division and Watson "didn't get hurt." You don't mortgage that much of draft picks just for "one season" of protection when it can get handled the very next off season and you're now on the hook for a $22 Million dollar contract while your trading partner is now paying the same thing they were to your guy prior to making that trade.
You said "Texans could have likely had a similar season with or without Tunsil" which begins the (What if) debate. I am simply saying that we do not know what would have happened and just point out it is just as likely that Watson gets hurt as it is we have a similar season. What is done is done.

We have a franchise QB in Watson. We do not need "sky is falling" scenarios to know that he was injured in a Texans uni more than once and required protection now and not later. Despite your claim that we went 10-6 and won the division while Watson didn't get hurt, he in fact did. This is the year he broke his ribs and was relegated to traveling by bus. Thus the trade was made and most recently money was spent. Miami did not have a franchise QB to worry about when the trade was made and was already entering rebuild mode.

Was there a left tackle available at the 26th pick this season that is anywhere near Tunsil's ability? If not, would we have had to trade up to find him? Miami had to trade up to 18 to get Austin Jackson, who by the way, was the 5th OT taken. What would it have cost us? Next years 1st or maybe the 2nd, all for an unproven commodity?
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
You said "Texans could have likely had a similar season with or without Tunsil" which begins the (What if) debate. I am simply saying that we do not know what would have happened and just point out it is just as likely that Watson gets hurt as it is we have a similar season. What is done is done.
They had a "one game difference" in the season before when there was no Tunsil and a terrible offensive line. Yes, I have facts here to utilize my projection. You on the other hand have zilch to suggest that Watson definitely would have been injured. He played two seasons prior to last year without getting injured in any regular season games. He was injured in practice as a rookie.

Your spin for O'Brien here is lousy and full of what if scenarios to suggest that a huge dent in the salary cap and a lop sided compensation is more than justified when it is still hurting this franchise.
 

theCATALYST

"Fake" Fan
The problem is that given these new contracts an injury to eithe Watson or Tunsil and you are totally sunk given how much is invested in them versus how much you can spread elsewhere.
Most teams with franchise players suffer with how much a handful of their players make. Unless you have a Tom Brady who is both good and willing to play cheaply, it is just a fact that NFL teams deal with.
 

theCATALYST

"Fake" Fan
They had a "one game difference" in the season before when there was no Tunsil and a terrible offensive line. Yes, I have facts here to utilize my projection. You on the other hand have zilch to suggest that Watson definitely would have been injured. He played two seasons prior to last year without getting injured in any regular season games. He was injured in practice as a rookie.

Your spin for O'Brien here is lousy and full of what if scenarios to suggest that a huge dent in the salary cap and a lop sided compensation is more than justified when it is still hurting this franchise.
I never claimed the trade and contract isn't hurting the franchise (you are putting those words in my mouth), but I do believe it is justified. Watson needed better protection. Watson's value to this team alone justifies the Tunsil trade.

I couldn't give a rat's behind about O'Brien so you can get off that wagon. My dislike of O'Brien will not cast a shadow on what I believe was a necessary evil (Tunsil Trade) to keep the most important player on this team in one piece.

Again, without making the trade.....who would you have taken in the 2020 draft of Tunsil's ability.....what would it have cost us to get him?
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
I never claimed the trade and contract isn't hurting the franchise (you are putting those words in my mouth), but I do believe it is justified. Watson needed better protection. Watson's value to this team alone justifies the Tunsil trade.

I couldn't give a rat's behind about O'Brien so you can get off that wagon. My dislike of O'Brien will not cast a shadow on what I believe was a necessary evil (Tunsil Trade) to keep the most important player on this team in one piece.

Again, without making the trade.....who would you have taken in the 2020 draft of Tunsil's ability.....what would it have cost us to get him?
Again, your only argument for this is that "Watson would have retired" which is pretty much the dumbest reasoning anyone can come up with, since that almost NEVER HAPPENS that early in someone's career. The Andrew Luck thing was completely out of the norm and a total exception. There was nothing common about that what so ever. And so what if Watson got hurt? Is that a reason to mortgage off tons of draft picks for several years? Unless you believe that year is your one chance to win a SB, then you don't trade away your future like that. We have the benefit of hind sight now, and we can easily see that there are plenty of options that could have been had this off season to fulfill the tackle position. Your argument now is that going 11-5 and having a huge blowout loss in the playoffs was worth that. You haven't made one logical argument yet especially since we see now that Miami got themselves a very good OT for the future in the first round AGAIN and Trent Williams went for a 3rd rounder. But hey that playoff game against KC was great wasn't it? Totally worth it. :facepalm:
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
Most teams with franchise players suffer with how much a handful of their players make. Unless you have a Tom Brady who is both good and willing to play cheaply, it is just a fact that NFL teams deal with.
How ridiculous is it to suggest that "we had to make him a franchise player?"

We had another draft this season to get an OT. By making that move we became forced to deal with OB for at least another two years, so you can't make the argument that you aren't for OB. Anyone using common sense knew that O'Brien would likely still be our HC for at least two years after he mortgaged that much of the team's future draft picks also making it a much less attractive job to future HC candidates if the HC position did become available.

All these alleged people that don't like O'Brien for some reason still want him to make moves that will keep him as our HC. Sure are confused.
 

theCATALYST

"Fake" Fan
Again, your only argument for this is that "Watson would have retired" which is pretty much the dumbest reasoning anyone can come up with, since that almost NEVER HAPPENS that early in someone's career. The Andrew Luck thing was completely out of the norm and a total exception. There was nothing common about that what so ever. And so what if Watson got hurt? Is that a reason to mortgage off tons of draft picks for several years? Unless you believe that year is your one chance to win a SB, then you don't trade away your future like that. We have the benefit of hind sight now, and we can easily see that there are plenty of options that could have been had this off season to fulfill the tackle position. Your argument now is that going 11-5 and having a huge blowout loss in the playoffs was worth that. You haven't made one logical argument yet especially since we see now that Miami got themselves a very good OT for the future in the first round AGAIN and Trent Williams went for a 3rd rounder. But hey that playoff game against KC was great wasn't it? Totally worth it. :facepalm:
I am not sure you are arguing with the right person. I never claimed "Watson would have retired", which I agree is a pretty dumb assessment, and just as dumb to be brought into this conversation now by you.

To date, this franchise has not had a quarterback the caliber of Watson. I also do not know of a single franchise who doesn't care if their star QB gets injured. So your statement of "so what if Watson got hurt" is ridiculous. Yes, you do what it takes to protect the QB, the most important asset on the team. How you do that varies largely, OB saw fit to trade for Tunsil. Not me, nor you or anyone else on this board, this was OB's move to make and he made it. The trade was made, it is only in our arena to agree or disagree with it and clearly we we are on opposite sides of that spectrum.

And then you say "We have the benefit of hind sight now, and we can easily see that there are plenty of options that could have been had this off season to fulfill the tackle position".:smiliepalm: No one including O'Brien has that magical power or hind sight....else he may not have made the trade afterall. But lacking that magical power, he made what was at that time, the correct move.

Yup I agree, Miami got themselves an OK OT for their future on the cheap, at pick 18, not at our traded pick of 26 (it would have cost us picks regardless to move up).
No one, including the Redskins new that Trent Williams would be traded for a 3rd a year later. Again that magical hind sight you speak of. That power would work wonders in an NFL teams front office.
 
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theCATALYST

"Fake" Fan
How ridiculous is it to suggest that "we had to make him a franchise player?"

We had another draft this season to get an OT. By making that move we became forced to deal with OB for at least another two years, so you can't make the argument that you aren't for OB. Anyone using common sense knew that O'Brien would likely still be our HC for at least two years after he mortgaged that much of the team's future draft picks also making it a much less attractive job to future HC candidates if the HC position did become available.

All these alleged people that don't like O'Brien for some reason still want him to make moves that will keep him as our HC. Sure are confused.
Umm...because he is good (best QB this franchise has had since inception) and that is what typically happens with good QB's?

And again, no mention of the cost (in picks) it would take to move up to get said OT of comparable skill set as Tunsil.

The bolded statements just prove you hate OB, nothing more, nothing less. You wanted him gone, and no matter how good/bad or important a move is, you will harp on it because he made it. Moving on.
 
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badboy

Hall of Fame
I get it, but two 1st's and a 2nd is a little much. It's not like we got a once in a lifetime player in return, we got a solid left tackle.
As with any contract you pay for what you hope player becomes not only what he is when he signs a dotted line.
 

texan279

Hall of Fame
As with any contract you pay for what you hope player becomes not only what he is when he signs a dotted line.
Then why do rookies sign for so much less than veterans? Shouldn't a contract be based on current performance? I can't understand paying a player based on what an organization thinks they may become.
 

Killer Bee

Waterboy
“Trent has been out of football for a year and a half, and Trent made it clear to everyone he wants to come back and didn’t want to do a deal right away,” Shanahan said, via ESPN’s Nick Wagoner. “He wanted to play and try to get back into it and see where he was at with the rest of the league and pick up where he left off. That’s one of the reasons we were able to get him and get him for what we did. I think it really helped us in the situation we were in.”

Upon his arrival in the Bay Area, everyone was anxious to see if Williams was going to receive an extension. However, the veteran left tackle seems to be content with letting the 2020 season play out before that takes place.

After sitting out the 2019 season, Williams is betting on himself to perform well next season. Williams is entering the final year of his contract, carrying a cap hit of $12.5 million in 2020.


Well this is new information. You win this round.
In this case, I think you may both be right. Being out of football for over a year, and the fact that there's a new CBA impending is likely why Trent is changing his tune from last year, where he did want a new contract, just not as a Redskin.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Then why do rookies sign for so much less than veterans? Shouldn't a contract be based on current performance? I can't understand paying a player based on what an organization thinks they may become.
Because regardless of what you or I think someone else will often pay more for what future may hold. 2011 CBA was a change in limiting 32 first round players income as many were paid crazy $ without stepping on an NFL field. That is also why there is a salary cap.
 


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