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Watson & Tunsil Contracts

zshawn10

All Pro
Laremy Tunsil and @deshaunwatson workout with each other four times a week. They are focused on everything they have in front of them. #Texans
— patrick the brick wall (@PatDStat) April 27, 2020
Laremy Tunsil says he chose a three year deal to get back into the market. #Texans
— patrick the brick wall (@PatDStat) April 27, 2020
Laremy Tunsil said that an "extension was not on his mind" when he was traded from Miami. He was worried playing a game against the Saints. #Texans
— patrick the brick wall (@PatDStat) April 27, 2020
 

texan279

Hall of Fame
This is the quote of the year...


Indeed, the Texans have done a lot of business the past couple of months, it’s just unclear whether any of those moves have helped the team. Under O’Brien’s leadership, Houston has made a dizzying array of short-sighted decisions that include trading superstar receiver DeAndre Hopkins for pennies on the dollar, using those pennies to acquire a far worse receiver in Brandin Cooks, and losing a negotiation with left tackle Laremy Tunsil so badly that the deal established a new precedent for NFL contracts. O’Brien has managed to fill Houston’s salary cap while emptying its chest of draft picks without making his team noticeably better (and may have actually made the team worse). As ESPN’s Bill Barnwell wrote earlier this month, “The Texans seem to operate in a vacuum in which there is no concept of what the other 31 teams are doing or thinking.”
 

Mr.Scarface

Waterboy
Another guy that simply doesn't understand salary cap management and thinks that OB is a good coach/GM.

All that move did was show how desperate he was to keep his job after the season would be completed so he threw all future moves to the wind to save himself. The cap will be more difficult and other positions will become huge holes as I've said before. You don't go 4 out of 5 years without a 1st rounder like the Texans have since acquiring Watson. God, that is just crazy. But hey so many of you Texan fans are so used to losing and mediocrity that half the fun it seems like for you guys is to spin stuff for the owners and HC.

Dolphins sitting pretty with another OT already. :spit:
And do you know how good that Tackle will be? Around 45% of 1st round pick are BUSTS. So, there is a good change 2 of the 3 Phins picks are bust. There is a chance all 3 are hits or all 3 are busts. Instead of Gambling, the Texans went for certainty.
 

Mr.Scarface

Waterboy
This is the quote of the year...


Indeed, the Texans have done a lot of business the past couple of months, it’s just unclear whether any of those moves have helped the team. Under O’Brien’s leadership, Houston has made a dizzying array of short-sighted decisions that include trading superstar receiver DeAndre Hopkins for pennies on the dollar, using those pennies to acquire a far worse receiver in Brandin Cooks, and losing a negotiation with left tackle Laremy Tunsil so badly that the deal established a new precedent for NFL contracts. O’Brien has managed to fill Houston’s salary cap while emptying its chest of draft picks without making his team noticeably better (and may have actually made the team worse). As ESPN’s Bill Barnwell wrote earlier this month, “The Texans seem to operate in a vacuum in which there is no concept of what the other 31 teams are doing or thinking.”
IF you go into something negatively, you will only find Negativity. Let's spin everything that O'Brien has done is bad. The problem with that......look at the moves. ALMOST EVERYONE has been on point. He was RIGHT about Clowney (who may only sign for something between $10-$12 million, after wanting $20 million). Clowney has NO value. The Seahawks may not even get a 3rd rounder for losing him. Texans got Conley (a Starter) and Jacob Martin (improving pass rusher). Tunsil and Stills were very good for the Texans last seasonHyde trade was good. Hopkins' value was done in by his contract demands. We will see what happens with that. Same with the Cooks' trade. Drafting Howard looks great when paired with Scharping and Tunsil. BoB will sink or swim with his moves.

Barnwell doesn't know **** about football. He is WRONG most of the time.
 

Mr.Scarface

Waterboy
How ridiculous is it to suggest that "we had to make him a franchise player?"

We had another draft this season to get an OT. By making that move we became forced to deal with OB for at least another two years, so you can't make the argument that you aren't for OB. Anyone using common sense knew that O'Brien would likely still be our HC for at least two years after he mortgaged that much of the team's future draft picks also making it a much less attractive job to future HC candidates if the HC position did become available.

All these alleged people that don't like O'Brien for some reason still want him to make moves that will keep him as our HC. Sure are confused.
You do realize that at #26, Texans would have had to trade to #11 to get the last of the top 3 OTs and to #19 for the last of the 1st round Tackles? You would have give up basically the same for gave up for Tunsil.

Picks are irrelevant if u you the players you want.

OB has not made ONE move that was just a failure since basically taking over last summer (Gipson was signed by Gaine). He was RIGHT about Clowney (who has no value and the Seahawks may not get a 3rd for losing him). Tunsil and Still were good for the Texans. Trading for Hyde. We will have to see about Hopkins and Cooks' trades. You may not like the value, doesn't mean they are a failure if they produce results.
 

theCATALYST

"Fake" Fan
You do realize that at #26, Texans would have had to trade to #11 to get the last of the top 3 OTs and to #19 for the last of the 1st round Tackles? You would have give up basically the same for gave up for Tunsil.

Picks are irrelevant if u you the players you want.

OB has not made ONE move that was just a failure since basically taking over last summer (Gipson was signed by Gaine). He was RIGHT about Clowney (who has no value and the Seahawks may not get a 3rd for losing him). Tunsil and Still were good for the Texans. Trading for Hyde. We will have to see about Hopkins and Cooks' trades. You may not like the value, doesn't mean they are a failure if they produce results.
That was the point I was also trying to get across. We would have lost picks in order to field an OT that may/may not be as good as Tunsil. The way I see it, our choice was this large contract, or gamble on an unproven commodity, but either way we lose picks. Trading for Tunsil was the best option at the time. Doing so without a contract extension was the only mistake, but he signed recently and didn't walk, so I am good with it.
 

texan279

Hall of Fame
OB has not made ONE move that was just a failure since basically taking over last summer (Gipson was signed by Gaine). He was RIGHT about Clowney (who has no value and the Seahawks may not get a 3rd for losing him). Tunsil and Still were good for the Texans. Trading for Hyde. We will have to see about Hopkins and Cooks' trades. You may not like the value, doesn't mean they are a failure if they produce results.
I will start by saying I never wanted Clowney here for what he was asking. But to say he has "no value" is nonsense. Clowney is one of the top run defenders in the NFL if not the best. And if he really has "no value" like you claim, then BOB really got hosed since the Texans paid half of Clowney's salary huh? Gave up too much for Tunsil and Stills. Gave up an offensive tackle who was drafted in the 3rd round for Hyde, for a one year "rental" (Hyde is now a free agent). Trading Hopkins for a 2nd and 4th round pick and the third highest paid running back in the NFL who hasn't had a 1,000 yard season since 2016 was idiotic.
 

theCATALYST

"Fake" Fan
I will start by saying I never wanted Clowney here for what he was asking. But to say he has "no value" is nonsense. Clowney is one of the top run defenders in the NFL if not the best.
Agreed. Clowney has value. He will find a new team as soon as he comes down on the inflated value he places on himself. He is good, but he isn't that good. I would take him back in Houston at the right price. The AFCS is going to be a tuff running division, and losing Reader hurts our ability to stop it.
 

michaelm

vox nihili
What if, what if, what if........ At the time it was the right move.... :spit:

That's all that was used to justify this garbage ass trade. Nothing but "sky is falling" scenarios instead of the "actual facts" which was that Watson and the Texans just went 10-6 the season before and won their division and Watson "didn't get hurt." You don't mortgage that much of draft picks just for "one season" of protection when it can get handled the very next off season and you're now on the hook for a $22 Million dollar contract while your trading partner is now paying the same thing they were to your guy prior to making that trade.
I'm not defending the trade but you're playing what if yourself to a degree. Because Miami isn't sitting pretty with a LT as you said earlier. Miami is sitting with a LT prospect who might be good but might bust. They certainly aren't sitting pretty with a young probowl LT.
 

Mr.Scarface

Waterboy
I will start by saying I never wanted Clowney here for what he was asking. But to say he has "no value" is nonsense. Clowney is one of the top run defenders in the NFL if not the best. And if he really has "no value" like you claim, then BOB really got hosed since the Texans paid half of Clowney's salary huh? Gave up too much for Tunsil and Stills. Gave up an offensive tackle who was drafted in the 3rd round for Hyde, for a one year "rental" (Hyde is now a free agent). Trading Hopkins for a 2nd and 4th round pick and the third highest paid running back in the NFL who hasn't had a 1,000 yard season since 2016 was idiotic.
TRADE VALUE. That's why the Texans couldn't get more.
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
Let us know the next time Miami has a winning regular season and not a winning off season would you?
I'm more into winning in the regular season. You seem to like the off season Champs
They were in the playoffs what like two or three years ago? It wasn't long ago at all.

And what does that matter? They've got a ton of picks they're using right now where their OT is taken care of all over again while they got 3 great draft picks from us and have about 20 Mill less on the salary cap over it for the next few years. regardless of what we have we still have OB coaching this team, and making GM moves as well. Miami is easily in a better position than us. It doesn't mean they will become big winners especially without a QB if Tua isn't the guy, but Florence just got started. The Texans have Watson from a draft when Rick Smith was still here and he is the only reason why this franchise is doing anything at this point.
 

Mr.Scarface

Waterboy
I will start by saying I never wanted Clowney here for what he was asking. But to say he has "no value" is nonsense. Clowney is one of the top run defenders in the NFL if not the best. And if he really has "no value" like you claim, then BOB really got hosed since the Texans paid half of Clowney's salary huh? Gave up too much for Tunsil and Stills. Gave up an offensive tackle who was drafted in the 3rd round for Hyde, for a one year "rental" (Hyde is now a free agent). Trading Hopkins for a 2nd and 4th round pick and the third highest paid running back in the NFL who hasn't had a 1,000 yard season since 2016 was idiotic.
A Offensive Tackle that was going to get cut and got value for him. Trading Hopkins would have not been my choice, but he wanted a raise and didn't want to be here anymore. He value was down because of that contract demand. No one wants to pay $20-$22 million to WRs. That is why the Bills, Ravens, Eagles, etc....dropped out of the bidding.
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
You do realize that at #26, Texans would have had to trade to #11 to get the last of the top 3 OTs and to #19 for the last of the 1st round Tackles? You would have give up basically the same for gave up for Tunsil.

Picks are irrelevant if u you the players you want.

OB has not made ONE move that was just a failure since basically taking over last summer (Gipson was signed by Gaine). He was RIGHT about Clowney (who has no value and the Seahawks may not get a 3rd for losing him). Tunsil and Still were good for the Texans. Trading for Hyde. We will have to see about Hopkins and Cooks' trades. You may not like the value, doesn't mean they are a failure if they produce results.
You don't have any idea where the Texans would be picking if they played the season without Tunsil. We'd likely be picking higher, but it would have changed our entire outlook from last season all the way until now. If we had picked all the way back with the 26th pick, well that would prove that the Texans still had a very good season without the upgrade of Tunsil to where the position also may not be as much of a need as we thought. Either way, giving up that kind of compensation in a desperation move was stupid and it is currently creating more holes on this team.
 

texan279

Hall of Fame
A Offensive Tackle that was going to get cut and got value for him. Trading Hopkins would have not been my choice, but he wanted a raise and didn't want to be here anymore. He value was down because of that contract demand. No one wants to pay $20-$22 million to WRs. That is why the Bills, Ravens, Eagles, etc....dropped out of the bidding.
How do you know he was going to be released? You're saying our front office was going to release an offensive limeman that they drafted round 3 pick 80 in the previous year? That lineman started five games for the Super Bowl champion Chiefs and only allowed one sack in those five starts. So the Texans obviously got that one wrong. Where did you hear Nuk didn't want to be in Houston? He never made a "contract demand", he asked for a raise. No one wants to pay receivers $20-22 mil? How about Atlanta? Julio Jones average $22 mil per season. Dallas? Amari Cooper average $20 mil per. New Orleans? Michael Thomas average $19.5 mil per. I've never seen someone put so much spin on so many bad moves to defend a regime.
 

theCATALYST

"Fake" Fan
How do you know he was going to be released? You're saying our front office was going to release an offensive limeman that they drafted round 3 pick 80 in the previous year? That lineman started five games for the Super Bowl champion Chiefs and only allowed one sack in those five starts. So the Texans obviously got that one wrong. Where did you hear Nuk didn't want to be in Houston? He never made a "contract demand", he asked for a raise. No one wants to pay receivers $20-22 mil? How about Atlanta? Julio Jones average $22 mil per season. Dallas? Amari Cooper average $20 mil per. New Orleans? Michael Thomas average $19.5 mil per. I've never seen someone put so much spin on so many bad moves to defend a regime.

"...he knew his former coach well enough to manipulate a trade from the Houston Texans."

“asking for a little raise” would get the Texans to shop him around the NFL.

“Which is the outcome that I wanted,” Hopkins told SI.
 

Mr.Scarface

Waterboy
How do you know he was going to be released? You're saying our front office was going to release an offensive limeman that they drafted round 3 pick 80 in the previous year? That lineman started five games for the Super Bowl champion Chiefs and only allowed one sack in those five starts. So the Texans obviously got that one wrong. Where did you hear Nuk didn't want to be in Houston? He never made a "contract demand", he asked for a raise. No one wants to pay receivers $20-22 mil? How about Atlanta? Julio Jones average $22 mil per season. Dallas? Amari Cooper average $20 mil per. New Orleans? Michael Thomas average $19.5 mil per. I've never seen someone put so much spin on so many bad moves to defend a regime.
Yes...he was going to be released. It was reported by beat writers. Rankins played because of injury. He started 6 games early in the season, when the chiefs didn't play their best. It wasn't a mistake. Hopkins said in the SI article he wanted out. He did make a contract demand. The Eagles were very interested in him until they heard that demand. That was reported by their beat writer. Cooper is overpaid. The problem is Hopkins signed the 5 year extension and had 3 years left. NO team is going to renegotiate that contract with that much time left.
 

texan279

Hall of Fame
Yes...he was going to be released. It was reported by beat writers. Rankins played because of injury. He started 6 games early in the season, when the chiefs didn't play their best. It wasn't a mistake. Hopkins said in the SI article he wanted out. He did make a contract demand. The Eagles were very interested in him until they heard that demand. That was reported by their beat writer. Cooper is overpaid. The problem is Hopkins signed the 5 year extension and had 3 years left. NO team is going to renegotiate that contract with that much time left.
So you believe everything "beat writers" say? I'd love to see links to all this info, because I googled it and none of it showed up. Like I said, if Rankin was going to be released one year after being drafted in the 3rd round, that is failure on the regime. He still started six games for a Super Bowl winner and only allowed one sack.
 

texan279

Hall of Fame

"...he knew his former coach well enough to manipulate a trade from the Houston Texans."

“asking for a little raise” would get the Texans to shop him around the NFL.

“Which is the outcome that I wanted,” Hopkins told SI.
This is so vague and randomly put together it almost doesn't make sense. I bolded the "quotes" by Nuk. No way to know what context these "quotes" were made in.


The standout wide receiver, who was dealt to the Arizona Cardinals in March for running back David Johnson and a second-round pick, told Sports Illustrated that he knew that “asking for a little raise” would get the Texans to shop him around the NFL.

“Which is the outcome that I wanted,” Hopkins told SI.
 

Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
This is so vague and randomly put together it almost doesn't make sense. I bolded the "quotes" by Nuk. No way to know what context these "quotes" were made in.


The standout wide receiver, who was dealt to the Arizona Cardinals in March for running back David Johnson and a second-round pick, told Sports Illustrated that he knew that “asking for a little raise” would get the Texans to shop him around the NFL.

“Which is the outcome that I wanted,” Hopkins told SI.
Nuk wanted out Bro. Not out of the city or franchise necessarily, just out of OBriens micromanaging and insecurity issues. Its a pretty common theme among ex players of his.

All this talk about Nuk being money hungry and the talk in PHX is he's not even pushing those buttons, he's already told the team to build and get to him when they can.

Its been the coach and GM who have made resigning him a priority. Crazy how such an inexperienced tandem can actually have more foresight and proper eval techniques than a guy who's already been on the job for 7 years! LOL
 

texan279

Hall of Fame

"...he knew his former coach well enough to manipulate a trade from the Houston Texans."

“asking for a little raise” would get the Texans to shop him around the NFL.

“Which is the outcome that I wanted,” Hopkins told SI.
You were right, I was wrong. Nuk wanted out...because of BOB...



But Hopkins also phoned back two days later, and in that call they discussed an earlier meeting with O’Brien that helped explain why he had wanted out. It took place during last season, which was odd because O’Brien and Hopkins had rarely met privately before. Hopkins can’t recall his coach ever asking about his personal life, or expressing concerns about his off-field choices. But in that meeting Hopkins told Irvin that, in reference to Hopkins’s friends, O’Brien brought up another player he had coached, former Patriots tight end Aaron Hernandez, the convicted murderer who hanged himself in prison. O’Brien also used the term “baby mothers” to refer to the mothers of Hopkins’s three children, two boys and a girl. (He is not married.) O’Brien confidants say they doubt the coach used those exact words. But because the men lacked depth in their relationship, the sentiments that O’Brien expressed didn’t come across as genuine concerns for Hopkins and his well-being. They seemed like answers to why they had no relationship in the first place. They felt like judgments, from a coach who didn’t seem to care about him—plus the outdated contract.


 

texan279

Hall of Fame
Nuk wanted out Bro. Not out of the city or franchise necessarily, just out of OBriens micromanaging and insecurity issues. Its a pretty common theme among ex players of his.

All this talk about Nuk being money hungry and the talk in PHX is he's not even pushing those buttons, he's already told the team to build and get to him when they can.

Its been the coach and GM who have made resigning him a priority. Crazy how such an inexperienced tandem can actually have more foresight and proper eval techniques than a guy who's already been on the job for 7 years! LOL
I just posted, I found the article. He wanted out because of BOB.
 

theCATALYST

"Fake" Fan
You were right, I was wrong. Nuk wanted out...because of BOB...



But Hopkins also phoned back two days later, and in that call they discussed an earlier meeting with O’Brien that helped explain why he had wanted out. It took place during last season, which was odd because O’Brien and Hopkins had rarely met privately before. Hopkins can’t recall his coach ever asking about his personal life, or expressing concerns about his off-field choices. But in that meeting Hopkins told Irvin that, in reference to Hopkins’s friends, O’Brien brought up another player he had coached, former Patriots tight end Aaron Hernandez, the convicted murderer who hanged himself in prison. O’Brien also used the term “baby mothers” to refer to the mothers of Hopkins’s three children, two boys and a girl. (He is not married.) O’Brien confidants say they doubt the coach used those exact words. But because the men lacked depth in their relationship, the sentiments that O’Brien expressed didn’t come across as genuine concerns for Hopkins and his well-being. They seemed like answers to why they had no relationship in the first place. They felt like judgments, from a coach who didn’t seem to care about him—plus the outdated contract.


Oh, I wholeheartedly agree. Nuke felt there was no relationship with his head coach. That closed door meetings where Hernandez was mentioned sealed the deal as far as Hop was concerned.
 

texan279

Hall of Fame
Oh, I wholeheartedly agree. Nuke felt there was no relationship with his head coach. That closed door meetings where Hernandez was mentioned sealed the deal as far has Hop cared.
Yea, my bad. Just goes to show my lack of interest with this team for the last few years and not paying attention to them like I used to.
 
And you can say that about EVERY NFL team. Cowboys: Zeke, Cooper, or Dak get hurt, Chiefs: Hill, Kelce, or Mahomes. ETC...
Well, that’s why the aim is to win on a rookie qb contract just like the Chiefs did...Cowboys and Texans are both going to have too many dollars invested in a few select players. However, at least the Cowboys (and the Chiefs) had a 2020 first rounder and still hold their first and second picks next year so they can acquire some cheap, talented players to help make up the difference. The Texans don’t have that luxury.
 

Mr.Scarface

Waterboy
Well, that’s why the aim is to win on a rookie qb contract just like the Chiefs did...Cowboys and Texans are both going to have too many dollars invested in a few select players. However, at least the Cowboys (and the Chiefs) had a 2020 first rounder and still hold their first and second picks next year so they can acquire some cheap, talented players to help make up the difference. The Texans don’t have that luxury.
Um, the Chiefs will salary cap hell coming soon.
 
And a 2nd rounder this year and another one first next year.

So its 4 first rounders and 2 2nd rounders.

I wish I could see the faces of all the people that tried to argue for this trade for months? They're feeling the sting badly right now.
My face is the same and I still like the trade. Also I’m not feeling any sting, a franchise LT is expensive and anyone with a brain knew a Tunsil would become the highest paid LT right up until the next stud LT is up for a new contract.
 
Then why do rookies sign for so much less than veterans? Shouldn't a contract be based on current performance? I can't understand paying a player based on what an organization thinks they may become.
Because they have to, it’s called paying your dues. Vets have at least shown they can play at an NFL level or else they don’t last long enough to be vets. How many great college players have been busts when they got to the NFL? When you sign a vet you are taking the risk they he may not help your team as much as you hope but you are not risking that he can’t handle playing at an NFL level. When you sign a rookie you are not only risking that he may not help but that he may be a bust.

Also current performance can be deceiving, maybe they are coming off injury, maybe they didn’t fit with the other teams system, maybe they had personal issues that are now resolved or maybe the just had a off year. Current performance should be considered yes but you also have to look at the whole body of work and what else might have been going on and how you think that player can help your team.
 
They were in the playoffs what like two or three years ago? It wasn't long ago at all.

And what does that matter? They've got a ton of picks they're using right now where their OT is taken care of all over again while they got 3 great draft picks from us and have about 20 Mill less on the salary cap over it for the next few years. regardless of what we have we still have OB coaching this team, and making GM moves as well. Miami is easily in a better position than us. It doesn't mean they will become big winners especially without a QB if Tua isn't the guy, but Florence just got started. The Texans have Watson from a draft when Rick Smith was still here and he is the only reason why this franchise is doing anything at this point.
Texans have been in the playoffs more in the last 6 years than Miami has in the last 20 years.


But please, keep telling us how Miami is so much better and making such better moves.
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
Oh, I will just drop this here,


5th year Option Official
I see this as possibly making it more likely that the Texans wait some to observe how Watson progresses or not before offering him a new costly contract.
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
Texans have been in the playoffs more in the last 6 years than Miami has in the last 20 years.


But please, keep telling us how Miami is so much better and making such better moves.
I already did. It was explained to you when this first happened, and now you saw what Miami did in their draft today which was exactly what I explained to you back then. Lol!

You're one of the ones that is headstrong on digging your hole on this. I was wondering when you'd pop your emotional head back into this. Come on, keep digging. Lol!
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
My face is the same and I still like the trade. Also I’m not feeling any sting, a franchise LT is expensive and anyone with a brain knew a Tunsil would become the highest paid LT right up until the next stud LT is up for a new contract.
:spit: The hell you aren't.

You just watched Miami get another high talented OT in the first round while they still had another 2nd rounder and next year's first of the Texans where they'll be paying way less. Texans will continue to struggle to fill holes as this goes on, and they aren't being coached by someone who over achieves. Quite the opposite. You're in purgatory as a fan. Being stubborn about it just makes it more difficult.
 
:spit: The hell you aren't.

You just watched Miami get another high talented OT in the first round while they still had another 2nd rounder and next year's first of the Texans where they'll be paying way less. Texans will continue to struggle to fill holes as this goes on, and they aren't being coached by someone who over achieves. Quite the opposite. You're in purgatory as a fan. Being stubborn about it just makes it more difficult.
Lol this is why trying to discuss anything with you is pointless. Not only do you ignore any points you can't refute but then you turn around and tell the other person not only what they are saying but what they are feeling as well. Why do you bother to quote people? Clearly you already know what everyone here is feeling and means so it seems a waste of your time. You would be better served just talking to a mirror all the time as that's the only way you'll listen to what "someone else" says.
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
Lol this is why trying to discuss anything with you is pointless. Not only do you ignore any points you can't refute but then you turn around and tell the other person not only what they are saying but what they are feeling as well. Why do you bother to quote people? Clearly you already know what everyone here is feeling and means so it seems a waste of your time. You would be better served just talking to a mirror all the time as that's the only way you'll listen to what "someone else" says.
"You quoted me" as usual as you have every time on this subject, and then all you do is whine and come for personal insults and try to deflect it on me.

Personally, I find it hilarious at this point because you're really that emotional at defending this silliness that OB pushed forward. Plenty of people have tried to argue for it, but none of them get all bent out of shape and nasty as you do over it. Several years from now when OB is long gone, we'll all be able to look back and say "remember those days when you'd go bat **** crazy over OB's Tunsil trade being trashed, and you'd attack other members?" It will be good for some laughs for sure. :toast2:
 

Lucky

A Beautiful Day in the Neighborhood
Staff member
I see this as possibly making it more likely that the Texans wait some to observe how Watson progresses or not before offering him a new costly contract.
KC is about to pickup Mahomes option. Are they waiting to see if Pat progresses? What everyone should understand is that the longer it takes to agree to a contract extension, the higher the price point will be. Which is why this is more about Watson determining the market than the Texans (O'Brien) deciding whether or not to extend Watson. Not extending Watson would be asinine after pushing all of these draft picks toward vet players. And, just asinine in general.
 
"You quoted me" as usual as you have every time on this subject, and then all you do is whine and come for personal insults and try to deflect it on me.

Personally, I find it hilarious at this point because you're really that emotional at defending this silliness that OB pushed forward. Plenty of people have tried to argue for it, but none of them get all bent out of shape and nasty as you do over it. Several years from now when OB is long gone, we'll all be able to look back and say "remember those days when you'd go bat **** crazy over OB's Tunsil trade being trashed, and you'd attack other members?" It will be good for some laughs for sure. :toast2:
Ok Tex, not sure where I have ever gotten “bent out of shape and nasty” about anything on here but if that’s what you believe then more power to you. Certainly I can’t ever recall me “attacking other members” but again if you want to say that, without providing proof, then go for it. Thought this the last time we had this exchange and I’m more sure now, that you have me confused with someone else, or you are just projecting or using it as a deflection tactic. Still best of luck to you and stay safe.
 

KoolAid Sipper

Waterboy
KC is about to pickup Mahomes option. Are they waiting to see if Pat progresses? What everyone should understand is that the longer it takes to agree to a contract extension, the higher the price point will be. Which is why this is more about Watson determining the market than the Texans (O'Brien) deciding whether or not to extend Watson. Not extending Watson would be asinine after pushing all of these draft picks toward vet players. And, just asinine in general.
I totally agree, extend him now if the salary cap will allow. Signing him now will get those first few years of true guarantees out of the way. That way just in case Bob fails within the next couple of years the new regime will not have to suffer through many years of Watson's guarantees in case he fails too. If a new regime doesn't want Watson then take your medicine on the cap that year and move on to the next year fresh. Whether he likes it or not, IMO Bob's success is tied to Watson but not vice versa.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
Then why do rookies sign for so much less than veterans? Shouldn't a contract be based on current performance? I can't understand paying a player based on what an organization thinks they may become.
Its the way the CBA structured things - remember all those top 10 rookies coming into the league getting huge contracts ( Sam Bradford was the last one) - Veteran players who had proven themselves weren't even getting that kinda money so they changed the rules and attached dollar amounts to draft spots , now the proven stars get the bulk of the big money - proven stars and QB's who are or are potentially stars.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
That was the point I was also trying to get across. We would have lost picks in order to field an OT that may/may not be as good as Tunsil. The way I see it, our choice was this large contract, or gamble on an unproven commodity, but either way we lose picks. Trading for Tunsil was the best option at the time. Doing so without a contract extension was the only mistake, but he signed recently and didn't walk, so I am good with it.
I'd rather have traded the picks to move up and gamble on a young LT on a cheap contract than give up the picks and have an LT on the largest contract in the game.

Tunsil hasn't been a difference maker worth $22m per …. He's been better than what we had but that's not saying much.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
A Offensive Tackle that was going to get cut and got value for him. Trading Hopkins would have not been my choice, but he wanted a raise and didn't want to be here anymore. He value was down because of that contract demand. No one wants to pay $20-$22 million to WRs. That is why the Bills, Ravens, Eagles, etc....dropped out of the bidding.
I seriously doubt he gets a new deal from Arizona this year either - They don't have cap space to offer him a raise nor any reason to do so since he's under contract thru 2022.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
I totally agree, extend him now if the salary cap will allow. Signing him now will get those first few years of true guarantees out of the way. That way just in case Bob fails within the next couple of years the new regime will not have to suffer through many years of Watson's guarantees in case he fails too. If a new regime doesn't want Watson then take your medicine on the cap that year and move on to the next year fresh. Whether he likes it or not, IMO Bob's success is tied to Watson but not vice versa.

That would make sense - extend him now and get the guaranteed money out of the way early freeing you from so much later if OB is gone …. thing is , OB is negotiating the contracts too …. so doing that is counter productive for him - pushing as much down the line , leaving himself money and picks to use now is ideal …. For the guy in control of all of that.
 

KoolAid Sipper

Waterboy
That would make sense - extend him now and get the guaranteed money out of the way early freeing you from so much later if OB is gone …. thing is , OB is negotiating the contracts too …. so doing that is counter productive for him - pushing as much down the line , leaving himself money and picks to use now is ideal …. For the guy in control of all of that.
True...the testament to the conflict of one being the GM/HC.
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
I'd rather have traded the picks to move up and gamble on a young LT on a cheap contract than give up the picks and have an LT on the largest contract in the game.

Tunsil hasn't been a difference maker worth $22m per …. He's been better than what we had but that's not saying much.
Lets just say that we didn't have Tunsil last season and they go 8-8 or so and miss the playoffs. Would OB possibly have been fired? We don't know for sure, but way more likely because we'd still have draft capital and a cap to use moving forward for a new GM or HC. I believed that once OB made this foolish lop sided trade that McNair was going to give him that next two years to figure it all out since he had diminished the high draft picks and he'd likely have to live and die with the roster he was building with Tunsil and Watson taking a huge chunk of the salary cap as well. Was getting destroyed in the playoffs really worth trading all of that for one regular season and an embracing playoff outing? No way. People know it now. They're starting to feel it.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
I totally agree, extend him now if the salary cap will allow. Signing him now will get those first few years of true guarantees out of the way. That way just in case Bob fails within the next couple of years the new regime will not have to suffer through many years of Watson's guarantees in case he fails too. If a new regime doesn't want Watson then take your medicine on the cap that year and move on to the next year fresh. Whether he likes it or not, IMO Bob's success is tied to Watson but not vice versa.
Well for some of us it is not all about paying huge sums of money to Watson; it is also about whether he is the QB to take this team led by this head coach to the super bowl. I am not sold on either OBrien or Dashaun and want one more season at Watson's $4.4 m cap hit rather than $35 to 40+ million. OBrien not going anywhere 2020 and probably not 2021 so I want convincing that #4 is the guy. Everyone here knows who thinks Watson is not the guy and who thinks it's all OBrien's fault. Watson for whatever reason seemed to regress from 2018- 2019 and I want clearer understanding of why. If it was Dashaun it is better to know before a new deal settles into his checking account. If OBrien flubs it, hopefully McNairs will pull plug. Why anyone does not want to wait this season is beyond me. It is not our money so why so eager to spend when we don't have to? So what if we then have to pay more? An extra $5-6 m more per year is worth the gamble. I would have loved to have had another year of Tunsil at $2m cap (2019) to decide on him but we didn't have it. Many are complaining that we overpaid him significantly; why take chance with Watson when we do not have to? As with Laremy, Dashaun's going to be paid so let it ride.
 


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