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Watson’s a top 5 qb. Do you agree?

Mr teX said:
Lol, hilarious. So your argument that Wilson is supposedly head and shoulders better than him b/c his replacement was drafted and b/c a HC who was already on the hot seat was fired after 8-10 years on the job?
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You keep trying to deflect over to Wilson instead of addressing what I brought up about Rogers.

I can't make someone understand any of this that doesn't believe that leadership at the position means anything. You seem to just look at talent by itself and think that's all that matters. Its very simple minded.
 
Humorous homorous...

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theCATALYST said:
At this point in their careers, I would take Watson as well based mostly on his youth and future.
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He still hasn't done it well or consistently in the playoffs to say that to me. I just can't get behind that. He had a 24-0 lead against a KC defense last season and totally squandered it away to getting shut out completely. He didn't do a whole lot in last year's playoff loss as well. He made some nice plays to win the game against Buffalo, but if you remember that game was very close to be squandered away too. I mean, yes he has a lot of potential but I need to see him do it a few times before having confidence like I would in Brady or Brees.
 
Texecutioner said:
He still hasn't done it well or consistently in the playoffs to say that to me. I just can't get behind that. He had a 24-0 lead against a KC defense last season and totally squandered it away to getting shut out completely. He didn't do a whole lot in last year's playoff loss as well. He made some nice plays to win the game against Buffalo, but if you remember that game was very close to be squandered away too. I mean, yes he has a lot of potential but I need to see him do it a few times before having confidence like I would in Brady or Brees.
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Brady/Rodgers have been doing it for yrs. We can only hope DW4 turns out as good as them.

Look at Mahomes, 2 yrs, an AFCCG loss when he lead his team from behind to tie and go into overtime and didn't get the ball to have a chance at the win.

Leads team from behind in all playoff victories and beats the QB he likes best after spotting him a 24-0 lead and you would still take DW4 over Mahomes,

LMAO, we just use identified the definition of honer and homers opinions on this subject shouldn't be taken seriously.
 
steelbtexan said:
Brady/Rodgers have been doing it for yrs. We can only hope DW4 turns out as good as them.

Look at Mahomes, 2 yrs, an AFCCG loss when he lead his team from behind to tie and go into overtime and didn't get the ball to have a chance at the win.

Leads team from behind in all playoff victories and beats the QB he likes best after spotting him a 24-0 lead and you would still take DW4 over Mahomes,

LMAO, we just use identified the definition of honer and homers opinions on this subject shouldn't be taken seriously.
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And what's also mind boggling is how little attention people paid to how good Brees was last year. He played exceptional and he did the year before as well. I could see if he progressed a lot, but that just hasn't happened yet. Brady is also year removed from the SB where he had that come back drive on Mahomes and the one in OT as well at Arrowhead. There is no way I'm taking a young guy with potential over HOF legends that have shown they can still do it.
 
steelbtexan said:
Brady/Rodgers have been doing it for yrs. We can only hope DW4 turns out as good as them.

Look at Mahomes, 2 yrs, an AFCCG loss when he lead his team from behind to tie and go into overtime and didn't get the ball to have a chance at the win.

Leads team from behind in all playoff victories and beats the QB he likes best after spotting him a 24-0 lead and you would still take DW4 over Mahomes,

LMAO, we just use identified the definition of honer and homers opinions on this subject shouldn't be taken seriously.
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To be fair, Banned1976 did use a qualifier in his statement.

"In all honesty, I would take Watson over any quarterback if it’s a last drive type of scenario. He’s a big moment quarterback."

It's also why I agree with his statement. I only took it a step further than he did by bringing up the QB's futures, but I am a fan of this team. As a fanatic, we can expect some Homerism from me.
 
Texecutioner said:
You keep trying to deflect over to Wilson instead of addressing what I brought up about Rogers.

I can't make someone understand any of this that doesn't believe that leadership at the position means anything. You seem to just look at talent by itself and think that's all that matters. Its very simple minded.
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I'm not trying to deflect over to anything..Russell Wilson is that dude & i was very high on him coming out of college; I felt he should've at least been a 2nd rounder. Still, if i had to pick between he and Rodgers, I'm taking Rodgers & I think most people would......at least for the next few more years anyway.

But this is the problem with any discussion you seem to undertake on here. You seem to insinuate things that were never said. Where in any of my posts did i say leadership doesn't mean anything? I'll wait while you find that.

The supposed "evidence" you brought to the table has next to nothing to do with his leadership qualities. His coach & GM were fired/moved to other positions b/c after 13 years on the job 1 failed to adapt his offense to the best QB in the game & was thought to be a not very smart HC by numerous people who were on the inside in GB. The other failed to put enough talent around to help him, yet shipped all of his best guys out..(Nelson, Cobb, Lacy). Isn't that what some here want BoB fired for? & Lol at his replacement being drafted "already". For 1, Rodgers didn't even get the starting nod until he was 25 so he got a late start.....He's 36 now...which is right about the age where most teams start to look to drafting a potential successor. In any event, Jordan Love won't even be ready for a couple of years & by that time, Rodgers could very well be ready to hang it up or move on.

There's just simply nothing there to question his chops as a leader.
 
Texecutioner said:
And what's also mind boggling is how little attention people paid to how good Brees was last year. He played exceptional and he did the year before as well. I could see if he progressed a lot, but that just hasn't happened yet. Brady is also year removed from the SB where he had that come back drive on Mahomes and the one in OT as well at Arrowhead. There is no way I'm taking a young guy with potential over HOF legends that have shown they can still do it.
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Reiterating what I mentioned in an earlier post... people have different criteria when playing this "pick a QB game".

Brees & Brady, while still good, are clearly passed their prime and will walk away from the game any year now.

If you're starting a new team, and got to pick any QB in the league... would you really rather go with Brees or Brady, knowing you may only get one or two seasons out of them? Or take a young guy like Watson, and if he fulfills his potential, you'll have for 10+ seasons?
 
People need to stop using the 24 point thingy like Watson plays defense too. I’m sorry but he wasn’t going to prevent KC from scoring. Oh he could’ve put some long drives together. Man stop it, Bill O’Brien was still trying to run his non productive running backs up the middle. When KC got down 24, they went pass happy and wasn’t trying to run the ball up the middle.
 
Corrosion said:
I like Rivers , he's been pretty good for a long time… but I struggle to justify putting him in the conversation with the others on your list.
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I understand. But my list is more of my favorites, not necessarily "top 5" I can't make excuses for Rivers. When he had LT to hand the ball to & Merriman leading that defense, no reason he shouldn't have got that team in a Super Bowl.
 
steelbtexan said:
If Jackson can stay healthy

1. Mahomes
2. Rodgers- Although I dont think Rodgers is going to have a great yr this yr.
3. Jackson
4. Brady
5. Brees
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I like this list. Mahomes has a great HC/OC and is loaded with skill position bad asses. It would be hard for a QB to fail in that system.
Rodgers has been givin the finger to his head coaches the past couple of years in that he has pretty much a barren cupboard of skill position players. Davante and not much else.
Jackson is a one trick pony IMO. To quote your qualifier about Rodgers, "I don't think Jackson is going to have a great year this year."
Brady has got weapons to spare this year compared to last couple of years.
Brees is just consistent as all get out and he too has a great HC/OC.

After those 5 I'd put the next 5, not in any particular order
Watson
Wilson
Rivers (like TK, he's a personal favorite)
Ryan
Wentz
 
Well since we’re talking about the possible production of these quarterbacks with the talent around them and not what they done last season, here’s my list.

1. Patrick Mahomas: SB champion is loaded with talent all around him. He has one of the best OC’s in the game.

2. Tom Brady: Tampa is loaded at receiver, adding Gronk to the mix helps the cause a great deal. There RB core is decent.

3. Drew Brees: the future HOF missed 5 games last season. He has one of the best receiver in the game. Adding Sanders was a big time move. Their TE core is pretty decent as well. The running game at too shabby either.

4. Carson Wentz: they will be getting their starting core back. Healthy this unit is lethal. Last season their back ups stepped in and took care of business.

5. Russell Wilson: This core package is pretty darn legit. Adding a workhorse like hyde should help their running game.

6. Deshaun Watson: If Lady Luck is on our side of health, this unit will be scary. The offensive line with a year of experience should protect Watson a lot better.
 
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austins23 said:
I like this list. Mahomes has a great HC/OC and is loaded with skill position bad asses. It would be hard for a QB to fail in that system.
Rodgers has been givin the finger to his head coaches the past couple of years in that he has pretty much a barren cupboard of skill position players. Davante and not much else.
Jackson is a one trick pony IMO. To quote your qualifier about Rodgers, "I don't think Jackson is going to have a great year this year."
Brady has got weapons to spare this year compared to last couple of years.
Brees is just consistent as all get out and he too has a great HC/OC.

After those 5 I'd put the next 5, not in any particular order
Watson
Wilson
Rivers (like TK, he's a personal favorite)
Ryan
Wentz
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I'd have a top 3 of:
Mahomes
Brady
Brees

My next 7 would consist of:
Rodgers
Wilson
Watson
Jackson
Ryan
Wentz
Rivers

The weapons Wilson, Watson and Jackson have this season have the potential to elevate them into that trio. Wilson and Jackson may have the better route since based on last season, both of those guys are in offensive systems that work with their skill-set. Watson is getting a new OC in Kelly but we (the fans) have no idea as to how much say OB is going to want in this offense.....if he butts out, Watson may have a chance for a really big season.
 
Regardless of who made the call, Watson is no longer a threat to run with the ball. No more designed runs. That element of his game is gone. Maybe his knees are in worse shape than we imagined? Whatever the case, he’s dropping in the list of top quarterbacks. Is he even in the top 10?
 
OptimisticTexan said:
I'd have a top 3 of:
Mahomes
Brady
Brees

My next 7 would consist of:
Rodgers
Wilson
Watson
Jackson
Ryan
Wentz
Rivers

The weapons Wilson, Watson and Jackson have this season have the potential to elevate them into that trio. Wilson and Jackson may have the better route since based on last season, both of those guys are in offensive systems that work with their skill-set. Watson is getting a new OC in Kelly but we (the fans) have no idea as to how much say OB is going to want in this offense.....if he butts out, Watson may have a chance for a really big season.
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I'll take one of the good HC and a good GM first.
There are different ways to build a championship team, but you always need all three phases to be really successful, and you need a good GM to put things together, and a good coach to execute the game plan.

History had shown that there have been more QBs outside of the top 7 (in any given stretch of 4-5 years) who had won the SB than those on the list.

You can't always draft a top 7 QB, so it's probably best to look for an outlier and build the team in other areas.
 
banned1976 said:
Regardless of who made the call, Watson is no longer a threat to run with the ball. No more designed runs. That element of his game is gone. Maybe his knees are in worse shape than we imagined? Whatever the case, he’s dropping in the list of top quarterbacks. Is he even in the top 10?
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BoB doesn’t run this type of stuff I’d imagine due to it not being what he likes. BoB refuses to dedicate his offensive philosophy to fit Deshaun style of play. You have a dual threat QB who you refuse to run them? Can’t think or any other coach that does this.
 
76Texan said:
I'll take one of the good HC and a good GM first.
There are different ways to build a championship team, but you always need all three phases to be really successful, and you need a good GM to put things together, and a good coach to execute the game plan.

History had shown that there have been more QBs outside of the top 7 (in any given stretch of 4-5 years) who had won the SB than those on the list.

You can't always draft a top 7 QB, so it's probably best to look for an outlier and build the team in other areas.
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I'm a little different in my approach b/c as NFL history has shown.....great QB doesn't haul a crappy team to SB wins or appearances. On the other hand, a great team with strong trenches can help a mediocre QB win a SB or make the show.

If I were building a new franchise.....my first draft would focus on the trenches (OL, DL, LB, TE) out. Inexpensive veterans would fill out the roster. A RD1 QB would come when the offensive trenches were helping a mediocre QB look good. That QB would be kept as QB2 and becomes the mentor to the new QB.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
I'm a little different in my approach b/c as NFL history has shown.....great QB doesn't haul a crappy team to SB wins or appearances. On the other hand, a great team with strong trenches can help a mediocre QB win a SB or make the show.

If I were building a new franchise.....my first draft would focus on the trenches (OL, DL, LB, TE) out. Inexpensive veterans would fill out the roster. A RD1 QB would come when the offensive trenches were helping a mediocre QB look good. That QB would be kept as QB2 and becomes the mentor to the new QB.
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We're saying more or less the same thing.
3 phases include a good offense; and if you don't have a super duper QB, obviously, you would need an Oline to make the job easier for him.
 
76Texan said:
We're saying more or less the same thing.
3 phases include a good offense; and if you don't have a super duper QB, obviously, you would need an Oline to make the job easier for him.
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We're on the same page. The Texans had no business drafting Carr with the first overall pick. Draft inside out. A veteran QB would be better prepared to play behind an OL going through its growing pains. I would grab my PS QB's from the UDFA pile and allow them to be groomed over a much longer period of time.
 
Between the Texans running a boardroom-style front office and letting their marketing department have a seat at that conference table, I do not see any type of elite-level mindset anywhere in management.

The only thing they seem to have going for them right now is a QB with potential, but in true Houston Texans style, they will break him by not being willing to hire the GM and coaching staff that knows how to scheme and build around that talent.

But, Watson made his bed with the new contract, so now he's got to sleep in it. I cannot feel bad for anyone that chooses to stick with O'Brien to the detriment of his career.
 
Double Barrel said:
Between the Texans running a boardroom-style front office and letting their marketing department have a seat at that conference table, I do not see any type of elite-level mindset anywhere in management.

The only thing they seem to have going for them right now is a QB with potential, but in true Houston Texans style, they will break him by not being willing to hire the GM and coaching staff that knows how to scheme and build around that talent.

But, Watson made his bed with the new contract, so now he's got to sleep in it. I cannot feel bad for anyone that chooses to stick with O'Brien to the detriment of his career.
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Yep. For years we all said “if we only had a quarterback. We have everything else.” Now we have a quarterback (that has had the wings on his flying shoes clipped) and nothing else.
 
addressing the original question....

No, Watson isn't 'Top Five'
right now (yeah it's early) but my top QBs are:
R. Wilson
P. Mahomes
A. Rodgers
J. Allen (hey, he's got Buffalo undefeated)
D. Prescott (he's kept the Cowpies in every game)

then there's a bunch of next level guys like Roelisberger, Brady, Watson, Newton, Jackson, Murray, Ryan...They're playing okay but their defenses are shaky.
 
ObsiWan said:
addressing the original question....

No, Watson isn't 'Top Five'
right now (yeah it's early) but my top QBs are:
R. Wilson
P. Mahomes
A. Rodgers
J. Allen (hey, he's got Buffalo undefeated)
D. Prescott (he's kept the Cowpies in every game)

then there's a bunch of next level guys like Roelisberger, Brady, Watson, Newton, Jackson, Murray, Ryan...They're playing okay but their defenses are shaky.
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Right about where I am / was when this thread started.
 
Deshaun Watson, Houston Texans
Biggest weakness: Taking too many sacks


Much like Russell Wilson, Watson has a balancing act to play between holding the ball to create explosive plays and taking too many sacks. There's plenty of room to improve for Watson, who led the league with 61 sacks in 2018 and ranked sixth with 44 in 2019. While Watson has an MVP-caliber highlight reel, he must cut back on the negative plays and improve his ability to find the open receiver quickly rather than inviting pressure and, in turn, putting more pressure on the Texans' offensive line.
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insider.espn.com

Biggest weak spots for every NFL starting QB: Brees' deep ball, Baker's pocket presence, more

Every quarterback struggles in some area of the game. Pro Football Focus used its unique data to find all 32 starters' weaknesses.
insider.espn.com insider.espn.com
 
DanielTx said:
Though we lost, I’m still kind of happy. watching Watson vs top tier qbs is the same entertainment value as watching the super bowl. He looked like a top 3 Qb prime cam mix with Rodgers. It’s a reason why we’ve been prime time since we drafted him. The gm knew that at the time. Watson’s going toe to toe with the best. He’s been clutch but the defense keeps letting him down (Pats, hawks, eagles, saints). Which leads me to ask after week 1 after watching every qb highlights, where would you rank Watson at his position.
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Top five talent at QB....bottom five coach.
 
If Dashaun is a top 5 QB why doesn't team let him make all play calls? I don't care about other QBs. He is the team leader and in his fourth season; should be deciding which plays to call.
 
badboy said:
If Dashaun is a top 5 QB why doesn't team let him make all play calls? I don't care about other QBs. He is the team leader and in his fourth season; should be deciding which plays to call.
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He’s got to show a level of proficiency with the plays called before he can start calling plays.

In my mind, he’s the field general. His focus should be the present moment. The play caller should be focused on the next moment. To do so, he has assistants & what not focused on the last moment. Those guys who bring the pictures.
 
thunderkyss said:
He’s got to show a level of proficiency with the plays called before he can start calling plays.

In my mind, he’s the field general. His focus should be the present moment. The play caller should be focused on the next moment. To do so, he has assistants & what not focused on the last moment. Those guys who bring the pictures.
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Bill O’Brien has never let any of his quarterbacks audible out of plays on regular basis.
 
Watson is NOT a top 5 qb. I believe he shows flashes of being a top 5 playmaker among qbs however.

For me, there is a distinction between the 2. He has moments where he makes plays and as a fan, i just shake my head wondering how did he do that? The bulk of those plays involve him scrambling miraculously through and past defenders. He extends plays much like wilson. They are based on his instincts and movement, not on his arm or game management or any plan. I don't believe that's sustainable.

I think we are infact watching the deconstruction 2.0 of what should be a legit qb as @Double Barrel so succinctly described elsewhere.

He might be a bottom 5 qb presnap. I don't know if thats dw's fault or the product of poor coaching. We'll likely never know but I know ob has a track record of lousy nfl QBs aside from brady. Furthermore, ob has assembled a lousy supporting cast.

I want to salvage his talent and that should be THE QUESTION for any future coach. (I've got my eyes on Bienemy.)

Regardless, I no longer scream in ecstasy or cuss in disgust like I used to during games. I'm mostly numb now thanks to ob. A topic like this is mostly fodder for me until ob is gone.
 
This still a topic lol

why?

0-4
defense gives up 30+ ppg
gm & hc has bad value draft picks
gets rid best players on both sides
(Hopkins, clowney)

every nfl fan feels bad for deshaun
like JJ his talent is being wasted
Texans are worst NFL organization
The owner cares about $$ not wins
Anyone who still supports O’Brien isn’t a true Texan fan.
Watson is a top 5 qb but they better find him a new hc soon or he’s on the decline. This is why players don’t want to play here.
 
DanielTx said:
This still a topic lol

why?

0-4
defense gives up 30+ ppg
gm & hc has bad value draft picks
gets rid best players on both sides
(Hopkins, clowney)

every nfl fan feels bad for deshaun
like JJ his talent is being wasted
Texans are worst NFL organization
The owner cares about $$ not wins
Anyone who still supports O’Brien isn’t a true Texan fan.
Watson is a top 5 qb but they better find him a new hc soon or he’s on the decline. This is why players don’t want to play here.
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He's not even a top 15 qb right now.
 
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