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Watson’s a top 5 qb. Do you agree?

KTex

Noob
Top 10? Sure.

Top 5? Might be a stretch, but w/ the obvious regressing of Brady and Rivers and possibly Rodgers, could be close.

1. Mahomes. Clearly.
2. Drew Brees.
3. Aaron Rodgers(I guess)
4. Russell Wilson.
5. Manalive, who else do you put here? Stafford? Garoppolo? Allen? Surely not Goff? Kyler Murray? Cousins? Prescott? Lamar proved in the Champ game that he's easy to stop.

I think I could easily put him at 5. Man, if he ever gains more consistency, he could easily take over the #2 spot.
 

RGV82

Random guy
Top 10? Sure.

Top 5? Might be a stretch, but w/ the obvious regressing of Brady and Rivers and possibly Rodgers, could be close.

1. Mahomes. Clearly.
2. Drew Brees.
3. Aaron Rodgers(I guess)
4. Russell Wilson.
5. Manalive, who else do you put here? Stafford? Garoppolo? Allen? Surely not Goff? Kyler Murray? Cousins? Prescott? Lamar proved in the Champ game that he's easy to stop.

I think I could easily put him at 5. Man, if he ever gains more consistency, he could easily take over the #2 spot.
LOL.... I am not trying to be rude here, but you need better material for not putting Lamar Jackson in the top 5 other than "proved he's easy to stop". Lamar Jackson is EASY top 5. You can't discount his abilities based on ONE playoff game. Also, Matt Ryan ranks above all other QBs you listed in your number 5s.
 

Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
LOL.... I am not trying to be rude here, but you need better material for not putting Lamar Jackson in the top 5 other than "proved he's easy to stop". Lamar Jackson is EASY top 5. You can't discount his abilities based on ONE playoff game. Also, Matt Ryan ranks above all other QBs you listed in your number 5s.
As soon as NFL defenses catch up on option responsibilities LJ will not be able to run wild. Titans spied LJ, played a zone on early downs to minimize his legs, and confused him some with the coverages they showed him. They implemented some LOS crash/scrape stuff to MAKE LJ commit early and then had the LB ready to make the play. Even with uber disciplined gap coverages a guy like LJ is going to gash you some, but it was a textbook example IMO of how to play the guy moving forward. LJ will have to make great strides in his passing game to be able to overcome the added attention next year. Him being left off of "top 5" lists is going to happen quite frequently IMO, but it will never take away from the MVP season he just had and taking the league by storm. LJ will single handedly be responsible for changing the way defenses play - thats a pretty big deal.
 

RGV82

Random guy
As soon as NFL defenses catch up on option responsibilities LJ will not be able to run wild. Titans spied LJ, played a zone on early downs to minimize his legs, and confused him some with the coverages they showed him. They implemented some LOS crash/scrape stuff to MAKE LJ commit early and then had the LB ready to make the play. Even with uber disciplined gap coverages a guy like LJ is going to gash you some, but it was a textbook example IMO of how to play the guy moving forward. LJ will have to make great strides in his passing game to be able to overcome the added attention next year. Him being left off of "top 5" lists is going to happen quite frequently IMO, but it will never take away from the MVP season he just had and taking the league by storm. LJ will single handedly be responsible for changing the way defenses play - thats a pretty big deal.
Good observations. It will be interesting to see how he fairs next year. Some former QBs have played his style, and were successful at doing so for many years even when defenses "tried" to adjust. It will all depend on how LJ progresses at other aspects of his game.
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
LOL.... I am not trying to be rude here, but you need better material for not putting Lamar Jackson in the top 5 other than "proved he's easy to stop". Lamar Jackson is EASY top 5. You can't discount his abilities based on ONE playoff game. Also, Matt Ryan ranks above all other QBs you listed in your number 5s.
Not from one season you aren't. You look back at the last 5 to 6 years and you'll see a ton of young QB's in their first 3 years having monster seasons and then coming back to average or slightly better the next after teams see film on them or changes happen to their team. Wentz was having an MVP caliber season and hasn't been the same since that year. Dak was having an elite level season as a rookie and hasn't been that good since then either. Watson still hasn't hit that same level he was on his rookie year for those 4 weeks or whatever right before he got hurt. RG3 was ROTY, and then after injuries hit him, he was never a starter again. Kaepernick had two very solid seasons almost winning a SB, and then dropped off big time especially once Harbaugh wasn't there.

So you can't put a QB in the elite discussion until they've done for at least two and really 3 seasons. And when you look at these high level dual threat QB's its even more unreliable, because so much of their success relies on how well they run the ball which increases their chances of getting injured.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Good observations. It will be interesting to see how he fairs next year. Some former QBs have played his style, and were successful at doing so for many years even when defenses "tried" to adjust. It will all depend on how LJ progresses at other aspects of his game.
What QB has won a SB with LJ's or DW4 for that matter style of play?

Run as a 1st resort after his 1st read isn't open.
 

Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Good observations. It will be interesting to see how he fairs next year. Some former QBs have played his style, and were successful at doing so for many years even when defenses "tried" to adjust. It will all depend on how LJ progresses at other aspects of his game.
this is where the old school purists chime in with the fact that there really arent many examples of mobile QBs winning the "big game". I could argue Mahomes should be considered a dual threat QB because a good portion of his damage comes on intentional moving pockets and on the run type stuff. He is also great from a conventional pocket dont get me wrong, but Im in the opinion that the game is evolving at the position and gone are the days of statues at the QB position. Im involved in the youth game, and watch a fair amount of high school and college football and the trend for the explosive QB has been coming for the better part of the last 10 years. Believe it or not the NFL is usually LAST in implementing some of the trends.

Good chat - be well.
 

KTex

Noob
LOL.... I am not trying to be rude here, but you need better material for not putting Lamar Jackson in the top 5 other than "proved he's easy to stop". Lamar Jackson is EASY top 5. You can't discount his abilities based on ONE playoff game. Also, Matt Ryan ranks above all other QBs you listed in your number 5s.
Actually, turn that around. It's you who is elevating him prematurely!!!!!! In that playoff game, he was exposed in a major way. He cannot throw outside. That is simply not top 10.

Matt Ryan? I thought of him, but man he's been bad since his super bowl appearance. I really don't know what to think about him.
 

KTex

Noob
Good observations. It will be interesting to see how he fairs next year. Some former QBs have played his style, and were successful at doing so for many years even when defenses "tried" to adjust. It will all depend on how LJ progresses at other aspects of his game.
It depends on how you define "many years". Cunningham was good for around 4 1/2, and he was the longest. Vick was good for around 4 years, though he missed several games in 2 of them. At that point he'd been exposed, and was .500 after that for ATL.

When he came back, he had one stretch of about 6 games for Philly where he was good, and then was once again back to being average.

Running QB's are good for around 3-5 years, and then they get hurt, and that's generally it.
 

RGV82

Random guy
Actually, turn that around. It's you who is elevating him prematurely!!!!!! In that playoff game, he was exposed in a major way. He cannot throw outside. That is simply not top 10.

Matt Ryan? I thought of him, but man he's been bad since his super bowl appearance. I really don't know what to think about him.
He’s actually been fantastic since his Super Bowl appearance. The Falcons as a team have been bad, but statistically he’s been playing some of the best football of his career. 2018 was his 2nd best QBR of his career.
 

KTex

Noob
this is where the old school purists chime in with the fact that there really arent many examples of mobile QBs winning the "big game". I could argue Mahomes should be considered a dual threat QB because a good portion of his damage comes on intentional moving pockets and on the run type stuff. He is also great from a conventional pocket dont get me wrong, but Im in the opinion that the game is evolving at the position and gone are the days of statues at the QB position. Im involved in the youth game, and watch a fair amount of high school and college football and the trend for the explosive QB has been coming for the better part of the last 10 years. Believe it or not the NFL is usually LAST in implementing some of the trends.

Good chat - be well.
Not "mobile", running QB's. There's a huge difference. Mobile QB's are preferrable. Mahomes is a great passer who can run if need be. He's mobile, just like Rodgers, Wilson, and Watson. However, all those guys are accomplished passers.
 

KTex

Noob
He’s actually been fantastic since his Super Bowl appearance. The Falcons as a team have been bad, but statistically he’s been playing some of the best football of his career. 2018 was his 2nd best QBR of his career.
I will take your word for that, and give him that 5 spot.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Saying someone is top 5 or top 10 is relative. So if you're saying DW is not top 10, then there's 22 QBs in the league that had more than 10 good games?
Pretty avg if you ask me.

My question is

Having avg QB play, the worst HC in the NFL according to some posters and a terrible defense, how did they manage to win 11 games last year?
 

Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Not "mobile", running QB's. There's a huge difference. Mobile QB's are preferrable. Mahomes is a great passer who can run if need be. He's mobile, just like Rodgers, Wilson, and Watson. However, all those guys are accomplished passers.
What!? someone who understands the difference!?!? Well you sir are a breath of fresh air! Agree with your post 100%.

 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Not "mobile", running QB's. There's a huge difference. Mobile QB's are preferrable. Mahomes is a great passer who can run if need be. He's mobile, just like Rodgers, Wilson, and Watson. However, all those guys are accomplished passers.
DW is a work in progress as a passer.

The difference is all of the QB's you listed can throw from the pocket accurately and with anticipation. Something I don't think DW4 will ever truly become great at.

Although those guys can run, running is the choice of last resort though and with those guys their teams don't have to design a gotta get him outside the pocket offense for them to be successful.
 

banned1976

Fire Bill O’Brien, maybe?
I guess the original Watson thread is gone forever. We just can’t have nice things, I suppose, before some have to ruin it. But this thread, while not going back to Watson’s first season, will have to do.

This thread was created preseason 2019. At times during that season I felt Watson was the best QB in the league. The Saints and first Chiefs game were good affirmations of my thinking. Other times I thought “whoa, not too good”. I don’t think Watson’s down moments were that unusual for a young quarterback, in retrospect. I’m expecting less of those questionable moments that made me pause last season and think maybe the Texans still have a problem behind center.

Hopefully Watson will have some time to gel with his new targets before a football season starts up again.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
I guess the original Watson thread is gone forever. We just can’t have nice things, I suppose, before some have to ruin it. But this thread, while not going back to Watson’s first season, will have to do.

This thread was created preseason 2019. At times during that season I felt Watson was the best QB in the league. The Saints and first Chiefs game were good affirmations of my thinking. Other times I thought “whoa, not too good”. I don’t think Watson’s down moments were that unusual for a young quarterback, in retrospect. I’m expecting less of those questionable moments that made me pause last season and think maybe the Texans still have a problem behind center.

Hopefully Watson will have some time to gel with his new targets before a football season starts up again.

I don’t see them gelling right away so I’m thinking around the 5th regular season game. That’s if that core of receivers can stay healthy. I’m really hoping Fuller can stay healthy because he’s the man now. Especially since he’s the veteran receiver who has been in it the longest.
 
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theCATALYST

"Fake" Fan
I guess the original Watson thread is gone forever. We just can’t have nice things, I suppose, before some have to ruin it. But this thread, while not going back to Watson’s first season, will have to do.

This thread was created preseason 2019. At times during that season I felt Watson was the best QB in the league. The Saints and first Chiefs game were good affirmations of my thinking. Other times I thought “whoa, not too good”. I don’t think Watson’s down moments were that unusual for a young quarterback, in retrospect. I’m expecting less of those questionable moments that made me pause last season and think maybe the Texans still have a problem behind center.

Hopefully Watson will have some time to gel with his new targets before a football season starts up again.
He looked the part of a true Champion in the season opener vs New Orleans. He looked unstoppable vs the Falcons as well. However yes, you are right. There definitely some face palm moments and games as well. He will continue to get better.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
I have hope that the things I want to see Dashaun improve on will occur the next season we play; whenever that is. The mega contract is most significant pressure for me. If I knew he would play for his current cap hit then basing extension on how he does that season, I would be way more comfy.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
I have hope that the things I want to see Dashaun improve on will occur the next season we play; whenever that is. The mega contract is most significant pressure for me. If I knew he would play for his current cap hit then basing extension on how he does that season, I would be way more comfy.
Sure , but that has to also be adjusted for any inflation / deflation of the salary cap ... Covid is doing a number on just about every facet of the economy , sports included.
They had 17b in revenue for last year .... about a third of that is butts in the seats.

That's my big concern regarding contracts in general , not just Watson's - Tunsil's deal will be a huge burden if the cap drops by any significant amount. OB really got raked over the coals in that deal.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Sure , but that has to also be adjusted for any inflation / deflation of the salary cap ... Covid is doing a number on just about every facet of the economy , sports included.
They had 17b in revenue for last year .... about a third of that is butts in the seats.

That's my big concern regarding contracts in general , not just Watson's - Tunsil's deal will be a huge burden if the cap drops by any significant amount. OB really got raked over the coals in that deal.
My thought is KC took all of your (and my) concerns and signed Mahomes. My fear which is well known Texans feel pressure to lock in Watson sooner rather than later. If so, if He gets a deal proportionate to Mahomes, it will be difficult to disagree.

On April 24th, no one knew how Covid would impact NFL. If you want to Monday QB Obrien ...

Butts, I still think NFL will have ~50% fans. Also I believe any further loss will be ameliorated by advertising adjusted as I think NFL will "borrow" from future years for cap. There will be some loss, just not what you are indicating.
Advertisers need more programming and will come up with ways to get it.

I could be wrong but I don't think so..Adrian Monk
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
Advertisers need more programming and will come up with ways to get it.
Advertisers need customers .... with so many out of work , even if they are getting unemployment for longer than the norm , many are being much more careful with their spending ... and even those who haven't lost income are cutting back , just in case.

That add time is only worth a fraction of the sales it can drive and if people are spending less that means that add time is worth less.

Its not just an issue with butts in seats .... its the entire economy.

Covid sucks ....
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
Advertisers need customers .... with so many out of work , even if they are getting unemployment for longer than the norm , many are being much more careful with their spending ... and even those who haven't lost income are cutting back , just in case.

That add time is only worth a fraction of the sales it can drive and if people are spending less that means that add time is worth less.

Its not just an issue with butts in seats .... its the entire economy.

Covid sucks ....
This mid-May article that looks at NFL financial future still holds pretty much today.

************************************************************

Huge differences in what MLB guys want and NFL players can get
BY GREGG BELL
MAY 13, 2020 04:01 PM , UPDATED MAY 14, 2020 12:29 PM
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
Still think Rodgers is the best QB that exists. His situation has been less than favorable. But as the actual position of "quarterback," hard for me to put anyone else as long as he's around.

Mahomes, right now, is next because he's basically the next iteration of Rodgers in terms of doing **** only he can do.

I kinda see it as Rodgers , Wilson and Mahomes in no specific order .... then there's Brady & Brees who have been doing it for 20 years - have to put them high on the list until proven otherwise - Then there's the next tier that includes guys with potential like Watson , Cousins , Goff , Garoppolo & Wentz - then everyone else.
 

banned1976

Fire Bill O’Brien, maybe?
I see it as Wilson, Brees, Mahomes, Watson and Rodgers trading spots throughout the season. One week Brees could be on top, the next week it’s Watson. After Brees and Rodgers retires, there may be two others that take their places or it could be Watson, Mahomes and Wilson for awhile, separating themselves from all others.

I’m interested to see what happens with Jackson in Baltimore. I don’t think that offense is sustainable, defenses are going to figure them, and him (Jackson) out forcing Lamar to change his game a bit.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I see it as Wilson, Brees, Mahomes, Watson and Rodgers trading spots throughout the season. One week Brees could be on top, the next week it’s Watson. After Brees and Rodgers retires, there may be two others that take their places or it could be Watson, Mahomes and Wilson for awhile, separating themselves from all others.

I’m interested to see what happens with Jackson in Baltimore. I don’t think that offense is sustainable, defenses are going to figure them, and him (Jackson) out forcing Lamar to change his game a bit.
If Jackson can stay healthy

1. Mahomes
2. Rodgers- Although I dont think Rodgers is going to have a great yr this yr.
3. Jackson
4. Brady
5. Brees
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Advertisers need customers .... with so many out of work , even if they are getting unemployment for longer than the norm , many are being much more careful with their spending ... and even those who haven't lost income are cutting back , just in case.

That add time is only worth a fraction of the sales it can drive and if people are spending less that means that add time is worth less.

Its not just an issue with butts in seats .... its the entire economy.

Covid sucks ....
Are not most tv fans locked into 12 month contracts? I know my Comcast renews with minimum $20 increase
I see it as Wilson, Brees, Mahomes, Watson and Rodgers trading spots throughout the season. One week Brees could be on top, the next week it’s Watson. After Brees and Rodgers retires, there may be two others that take their places or it could be Watson, Mahomes and Wilson for awhile, separating themselves from all others.

I’m interested to see what happens with Jackson in Baltimore. I don’t think that offense is sustainable, defenses are going to figure them, and him (Jackson) out forcing Lamar to change his game a bit.
[/QUOT

delete
 

dream_team

Hall of Fame
The problem with top 5 lists is everyone has a different definition of "top 5". Some will factor in youth & potential, while others don't. Some will only consider what have they done lately, while others factor in their whole career. Some will rank based on how they predict they will perform in 2020, and 2020 only.

Not saying anyone is right or wrong, but just everyone has different parameters when defining these type of lists.

For example, if I was to build a team just for 2020 only... Aaron Rodgers is the QB I'd pick. If I was to build a team for the foreseeable future, Pat Mahomes would be my top pick. For both of these criteria, Tom Brady wouldn't even crack my top 10.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
The problem with top 5 lists is everyone has a different definition of "top 5". Some will factor in youth & potential, while others don't. Some will only consider what have they done lately, while others factor in their whole career. Some will rank based on how they predict they will perform in 2020, and 2020 only.

Not saying anyone is right or wrong, but just everyone has different parameters when defining these type of lists.

For example, if I was to build a team just for 2020 only... Aaron Rodgers is the QB I'd pick. If I was to build a team for the foreseeable future, Pat Mahomes would be my top pick. For both of these criteria, Tom Brady wouldn't even crack my top 10.
I pick who I think will be the best QB next year.

Disagree about Brady. With the weapons he has to work with I expect a big yr. Those weapons are why he picked Tampa.
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
Russell Wilson and Brees both have been better than Rodgers the past two years and both have been better leaders for their teams as well. Tom Brady also has a sB win in the last two years with a horrible offensive cast that he did it with.

Rodgers is overhyped in here for some reason. He is still elite, but his leadership qualities at the QB position are being ignored for some reason. Some of the same issues I worry about Watson with moving forward.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Russell Wilson and Brees both have been better than Rodgers the past two years and both have been better leaders for their teams as well. Tom Brady also has a sB win in the last two years with a horrible offensive cast that he did it with.

Rodgers is overhyped in here for some reason. He is still elite, but his leadership qualities at the QB position are being ignored for some reason. Some of the same issues I worry about Watson with moving forward.
lol how can he be considered elite and overhyped at the same time?
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
#1 or #2 in the league after his last two seasons? That's how

Rodgers has taken his team to 2 of the last 4 NFCCG...Wilson hasn’t seen one since his last SB year.

sure, Wilson’s numbers look marginally better, but not enough to overtake Rodgers. Wilson hasn’t even been an all-pro yet. Aside from that, Rodgers’ int % has been insanely low; pretty certain it’s been amongst the best in the league for his career let alone these last few years...he just doesn’t turn the ball over. Plus.........they matched up against each other last year in the playoffs and Rodgers came out victorious. The time before that, Wilson’s team won the game, but it wasn’t b/c of him..he threw 4 ints..
 
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Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
Rodgers has taken his team to 2 of the last 4 NFCCG...Wilson hasn’t seen one since his last SB year.
He didn't even make the playoffs the year before last for crying out loud so he simply can't be #2. He also got his HC fired, and now with a brand new HC that had a solid team and game plan this year and Rodgers already has problems with him. He's so great that his new HC and GM both are drafting his replacement way early, because the reports are that the is to hard to deal with, and has questionable leadership.

You can't even have a legit conversation about the QB position if leadership isn't one of the most important things to discuss.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
Are not most tv fans locked into 12 month contracts? I know my Comcast renews with minimum $20 increase

How many people have moved away from traditional cable TV to streaming services that are a fraction of the cost ? LOTS.

Many just have the NFL package on some streaming / mobile device.

Times are changing and Covid affects every aspect of the economy.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
How many people have moved away from traditional cable TV to streaming services that are a fraction of the cost ? LOTS.

Many just have the NFL package on some streaming / mobile device.

Times are changing and Covid affects every aspect of the economy.
Agreed but streamers buy also and Fox for one just bought TUBI to add viewers; just another advertising dollar source . I feel certain NFL and advertisers will find ways for both to get what they want for 2020.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
He didn't even make the playoffs the year before last for crying out loud so he simply can't be #2. He also got his HC fired, and now with a brand new HC that had a solid team and game plan this year and Rodgers already has problems with him. He's so great that his new HC and GM both are drafting his replacement way early, because the reports are that the is to hard to deal with, and has questionable leadership.

You can't even have a legit conversation about the QB position if leadership isn't one of the most important things to discuss.
Lol, hilarious. So your argument that Wilson is supposedly head and shoulders better than him b/c his replacement was drafted and b/c a HC who was already on the hot seat was fired after 8-10 years on the job?
 


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