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Watson’s a top 5 qb. Do you agree?

KTex

Noob
Top 10? Sure.

Top 5? Might be a stretch, but w/ the obvious regressing of Brady and Rivers and possibly Rodgers, could be close.

1. Mahomes. Clearly.
2. Drew Brees.
3. Aaron Rodgers(I guess)
4. Russell Wilson.
5. Manalive, who else do you put here? Stafford? Garoppolo? Allen? Surely not Goff? Kyler Murray? Cousins? Prescott? Lamar proved in the Champ game that he's easy to stop.

I think I could easily put him at 5. Man, if he ever gains more consistency, he could easily take over the #2 spot.
 

RGV82

Random guy
Top 10? Sure.

Top 5? Might be a stretch, but w/ the obvious regressing of Brady and Rivers and possibly Rodgers, could be close.

1. Mahomes. Clearly.
2. Drew Brees.
3. Aaron Rodgers(I guess)
4. Russell Wilson.
5. Manalive, who else do you put here? Stafford? Garoppolo? Allen? Surely not Goff? Kyler Murray? Cousins? Prescott? Lamar proved in the Champ game that he's easy to stop.

I think I could easily put him at 5. Man, if he ever gains more consistency, he could easily take over the #2 spot.
LOL.... I am not trying to be rude here, but you need better material for not putting Lamar Jackson in the top 5 other than "proved he's easy to stop". Lamar Jackson is EASY top 5. You can't discount his abilities based on ONE playoff game. Also, Matt Ryan ranks above all other QBs you listed in your number 5s.
 

Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
LOL.... I am not trying to be rude here, but you need better material for not putting Lamar Jackson in the top 5 other than "proved he's easy to stop". Lamar Jackson is EASY top 5. You can't discount his abilities based on ONE playoff game. Also, Matt Ryan ranks above all other QBs you listed in your number 5s.
As soon as NFL defenses catch up on option responsibilities LJ will not be able to run wild. Titans spied LJ, played a zone on early downs to minimize his legs, and confused him some with the coverages they showed him. They implemented some LOS crash/scrape stuff to MAKE LJ commit early and then had the LB ready to make the play. Even with uber disciplined gap coverages a guy like LJ is going to gash you some, but it was a textbook example IMO of how to play the guy moving forward. LJ will have to make great strides in his passing game to be able to overcome the added attention next year. Him being left off of "top 5" lists is going to happen quite frequently IMO, but it will never take away from the MVP season he just had and taking the league by storm. LJ will single handedly be responsible for changing the way defenses play - thats a pretty big deal.
 

RGV82

Random guy
As soon as NFL defenses catch up on option responsibilities LJ will not be able to run wild. Titans spied LJ, played a zone on early downs to minimize his legs, and confused him some with the coverages they showed him. They implemented some LOS crash/scrape stuff to MAKE LJ commit early and then had the LB ready to make the play. Even with uber disciplined gap coverages a guy like LJ is going to gash you some, but it was a textbook example IMO of how to play the guy moving forward. LJ will have to make great strides in his passing game to be able to overcome the added attention next year. Him being left off of "top 5" lists is going to happen quite frequently IMO, but it will never take away from the MVP season he just had and taking the league by storm. LJ will single handedly be responsible for changing the way defenses play - thats a pretty big deal.
Good observations. It will be interesting to see how he fairs next year. Some former QBs have played his style, and were successful at doing so for many years even when defenses "tried" to adjust. It will all depend on how LJ progresses at other aspects of his game.
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
LOL.... I am not trying to be rude here, but you need better material for not putting Lamar Jackson in the top 5 other than "proved he's easy to stop". Lamar Jackson is EASY top 5. You can't discount his abilities based on ONE playoff game. Also, Matt Ryan ranks above all other QBs you listed in your number 5s.
Not from one season you aren't. You look back at the last 5 to 6 years and you'll see a ton of young QB's in their first 3 years having monster seasons and then coming back to average or slightly better the next after teams see film on them or changes happen to their team. Wentz was having an MVP caliber season and hasn't been the same since that year. Dak was having an elite level season as a rookie and hasn't been that good since then either. Watson still hasn't hit that same level he was on his rookie year for those 4 weeks or whatever right before he got hurt. RG3 was ROTY, and then after injuries hit him, he was never a starter again. Kaepernick had two very solid seasons almost winning a SB, and then dropped off big time especially once Harbaugh wasn't there.

So you can't put a QB in the elite discussion until they've done for at least two and really 3 seasons. And when you look at these high level dual threat QB's its even more unreliable, because so much of their success relies on how well they run the ball which increases their chances of getting injured.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Good observations. It will be interesting to see how he fairs next year. Some former QBs have played his style, and were successful at doing so for many years even when defenses "tried" to adjust. It will all depend on how LJ progresses at other aspects of his game.
What QB has won a SB with LJ's or DW4 for that matter style of play?

Run as a 1st resort after his 1st read isn't open.
 

Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Good observations. It will be interesting to see how he fairs next year. Some former QBs have played his style, and were successful at doing so for many years even when defenses "tried" to adjust. It will all depend on how LJ progresses at other aspects of his game.
this is where the old school purists chime in with the fact that there really arent many examples of mobile QBs winning the "big game". I could argue Mahomes should be considered a dual threat QB because a good portion of his damage comes on intentional moving pockets and on the run type stuff. He is also great from a conventional pocket dont get me wrong, but Im in the opinion that the game is evolving at the position and gone are the days of statues at the QB position. Im involved in the youth game, and watch a fair amount of high school and college football and the trend for the explosive QB has been coming for the better part of the last 10 years. Believe it or not the NFL is usually LAST in implementing some of the trends.

Good chat - be well.
 

KTex

Noob
LOL.... I am not trying to be rude here, but you need better material for not putting Lamar Jackson in the top 5 other than "proved he's easy to stop". Lamar Jackson is EASY top 5. You can't discount his abilities based on ONE playoff game. Also, Matt Ryan ranks above all other QBs you listed in your number 5s.
Actually, turn that around. It's you who is elevating him prematurely!!!!!! In that playoff game, he was exposed in a major way. He cannot throw outside. That is simply not top 10.

Matt Ryan? I thought of him, but man he's been bad since his super bowl appearance. I really don't know what to think about him.
 

KTex

Noob
Good observations. It will be interesting to see how he fairs next year. Some former QBs have played his style, and were successful at doing so for many years even when defenses "tried" to adjust. It will all depend on how LJ progresses at other aspects of his game.
It depends on how you define "many years". Cunningham was good for around 4 1/2, and he was the longest. Vick was good for around 4 years, though he missed several games in 2 of them. At that point he'd been exposed, and was .500 after that for ATL.

When he came back, he had one stretch of about 6 games for Philly where he was good, and then was once again back to being average.

Running QB's are good for around 3-5 years, and then they get hurt, and that's generally it.
 

RGV82

Random guy
Actually, turn that around. It's you who is elevating him prematurely!!!!!! In that playoff game, he was exposed in a major way. He cannot throw outside. That is simply not top 10.

Matt Ryan? I thought of him, but man he's been bad since his super bowl appearance. I really don't know what to think about him.
He’s actually been fantastic since his Super Bowl appearance. The Falcons as a team have been bad, but statistically he’s been playing some of the best football of his career. 2018 was his 2nd best QBR of his career.
 

KTex

Noob
this is where the old school purists chime in with the fact that there really arent many examples of mobile QBs winning the "big game". I could argue Mahomes should be considered a dual threat QB because a good portion of his damage comes on intentional moving pockets and on the run type stuff. He is also great from a conventional pocket dont get me wrong, but Im in the opinion that the game is evolving at the position and gone are the days of statues at the QB position. Im involved in the youth game, and watch a fair amount of high school and college football and the trend for the explosive QB has been coming for the better part of the last 10 years. Believe it or not the NFL is usually LAST in implementing some of the trends.

Good chat - be well.
Not "mobile", running QB's. There's a huge difference. Mobile QB's are preferrable. Mahomes is a great passer who can run if need be. He's mobile, just like Rodgers, Wilson, and Watson. However, all those guys are accomplished passers.
 

KTex

Noob
He’s actually been fantastic since his Super Bowl appearance. The Falcons as a team have been bad, but statistically he’s been playing some of the best football of his career. 2018 was his 2nd best QBR of his career.
I will take your word for that, and give him that 5 spot.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Saying someone is top 5 or top 10 is relative. So if you're saying DW is not top 10, then there's 22 QBs in the league that had more than 10 good games?
Pretty avg if you ask me.

My question is

Having avg QB play, the worst HC in the NFL according to some posters and a terrible defense, how did they manage to win 11 games last year?
 

Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Not "mobile", running QB's. There's a huge difference. Mobile QB's are preferrable. Mahomes is a great passer who can run if need be. He's mobile, just like Rodgers, Wilson, and Watson. However, all those guys are accomplished passers.
What!? someone who understands the difference!?!? Well you sir are a breath of fresh air! Agree with your post 100%.

 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Not "mobile", running QB's. There's a huge difference. Mobile QB's are preferrable. Mahomes is a great passer who can run if need be. He's mobile, just like Rodgers, Wilson, and Watson. However, all those guys are accomplished passers.
DW is a work in progress as a passer.

The difference is all of the QB's you listed can throw from the pocket accurately and with anticipation. Something I don't think DW4 will ever truly become great at.

Although those guys can run, running is the choice of last resort though and with those guys their teams don't have to design a gotta get him outside the pocket offense for them to be successful.
 


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