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Texans Offensive Line

cland said:
Yep you've nailed it. Ed Ingram or death to CJ. ☠️

I have no problem with them bringing in some misfit vets and some (high round) draft picks into camp to see if they can form a cohesive unit.
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Not good enough for me. Im not breaking out a magic 8 ball and shaking it up and seeing what happens. That’s not even close to good enough for me. We are talking about the franchise here. So goes CJ so goes this team. Maybe there is some magical plan still out there and we just haven’t seen it, but right now it looks like throw some crap on the wall and hope some of it sticks. If this is the plan, and CJ gets killed again, I will be pulling my chef hat and burning it in a ceremony in old Mexico blesss by a local shaman. He will give me a small voodoo doll wearing a vest and I will buy extra pins.
 
I get the culture change. That was much needed and i was pretty early on expressing my worries about the culture of the Oline.

But you cant tell me there arent guys who'd help change the culture AND have good starter level talent. That culture stuff isnt going to mean anything if that player is getting beat like a drum.

I wont condemn this line to sucking again at this point, but im not a fan of what theyve done so far. Could have left these two guards we picked up where they were. I also hope they arent relying on the draft since they dont know who exactly will be available when they pick and then also rookies are rookies.
 
dalemurphy said:
It's an overhaul of the OLine culture. They are flipping the vets before they add some younger pieces in the draft. These recent acquisitions don't have to have better OLine "stats" to make our OLine better, starting with the cultured: adding physicality, toughness, etc... which, in theory, should bleed over into the young guys the same way Tunsil's soft, individualistic attitude rubbed off on them the past few years.
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Understand and I hope this is the case
 
I'll have to repeat what I heard from Payne and Pendergast that at least got me to a 'wait and see' approach. This is paraphrasing, but they said, "The FO had bought a lot a lot with an old broken house on it and wrecked that house down to the ground. The neighbors thought is was the lot was now ugly, but they hadn't seen the blueprints for the new one that were going to build."

Now I have to give Casserio and Caley some benefit of the doubt, and they certainly aren't unaware of the fact that CJ's pass protection has to be upgraded.
 
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House of Pain said:
I'm pretty sure they are taking some flyers on some OLmen and they will draft several. They don't want to be in the unenviable position of having not enough players to fill out the starting line
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They can hire guys off the street or sign unrestricted FAs after the draft for that. I'd rather he save those picks to trade up in the draft.
 
I think NC will find a way to move around the draft like he normally does. I still think he's going to flip Autry, an LB or someone else on our team to get more picks this year. Next year? Not too worried about that. Historically, he sends out players during the year for low draft picks that they were going to cut to make up for his "devil may care" attitude with using his 5-7 round picks on people that get cut anyways.

This is no way is a defense of his method. I'm just saying that's what he does.
 
House of Pain said:
I think NC will find a way to move around the draft like he normally does. I still think he's going to flip Autry, an LB or someone else on our team to get more picks this year. Next year? Not too worried about that. Historically, he sends out players during the year for low draft picks that they were going to cut to make up for his "devil may care" attitude with using his 5-7 round picks on people that get cut anyways.

This is no way is a defense of his method. I'm just saying that's what he does.
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I actually do support those moves, 6th and 7th particularly. 6th rounders have a 2% chance of starting and a 7th a 1.5% chance. Getting a guy that has already started and has any potential upside, makes it work for me. Heck even depth looks good at those draft odds.
 
cland said:
I actually do support those moves, 6th and 7th particularly. 6th rounders have a 2% chance of starting and a 7th a 1.5% chance. Getting a guy that has already started and has any potential upside, makes it work for me. Heck even depth looks good at those draft odds.
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Agreed. Nick hasn’t made 50 of those trades yet (I could be wrong)… but he has gotten Mixon and Cashman out of them which already beats the odds.
 
I think I was a bit premature, (not highly popular with the ladies), yesterday, when - I began to edge over toward complacency - in regard to our yet to form - offensive line. I hunted and studied prospects until 3:30 AM. The longer I studied and researched, the more dejected I became. Anyone got any promising ideas to share ? All attempts will be appreciated .... it can't be as bleak as I'm seeing it !
 
cland said:
I'll have to repeat what I heard from Payne and Pendergast that at least got me to a 'wait and see' approach. This is paraphrasing, but they said, "The FO had bought a lot a lot with an old broken house on it and wrecked that house down to the ground. The neighbors thought is was the lot was now ugly, but they hadn't seen the blueprints for the new one that were going to build."

Now I have to give Casserio and Caley some benefit of the doubt, and they certainly aren't unaware of the fact that CJ's pass protection has to be upgraded.
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The problem with that is Caserio gave Tunsil an enormous extension in 2023, gave Howard a big extension in 2023, and drafted Kenyon Green. I have no reason to trust Caserio will get it right this time. Hopefully Scrugs and Fischer turn the corner in years 2 (Fischer) and 3 (Scruggs), both drafted in round 2 because right now it looks like they are a big part of the plan.

Until the Texans solve the new problem (it was a problem last year, now it's a bigger problem) they have in pass protection, they're going to need to be a lot more consistent in run blocking.
 
justmy2cents said:
I think I was a bit premature, (not highly popular with the ladies), yesterday, when - I began to edge over toward complacency - in regard to our yet to form - offensive line. I hunted and studied prospects until 3:30 AM. The longer I studied and researched, the more dejected I became. Anyone got any promising ideas to share ? All attempts will be appreciated .... it can't be as bleak as I'm seeing it !
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My favorite group of guys I've ever come across when trying to build an offensive line ! Not only as physical specimens who check all the boxes for our positional needs .... but they fall in the right places for our draft pick needs. Josh Simmons, Jonah Savalinaea, Charles Grant, Jalen Rivers, Jared Wilson. They're good athletes, but if you watch their interviews .... there wasn't one of them that I didn't wish were my son. What great young athletes !
 
justmy2cents said:
My favorite group of guys I've ever come across when trying to build an offensive line ! Not only as physical specimens who check all the boxes for our positional needs .... but they fall in the right places for our draft pick needs. Josh Simmons, Jonah Savalinaea, Charles Grant, Jalen Rivers, Jared Wilson. They're good athletes, but if you watch their interviews .... there wasn't one of them that I didn't wish were my son. What great young athletes !
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I'm big on Booker, Zabel, and Savalinaea. Booker and Zabel look for contact and are well rounded. Savalinaea isn't a mauler, but he has great feet and is good in pass protection. I'll have to watch film of the other guys you listed. I was interested in Ratledge, but he's going to get wrecked in pass protection by NFL DTs.
 
I hate to say it, but I would feel a whole lot "safer" for the Oline if the Texans could get Cam Robinson here for a year. Now he's just an average (if that) LT, but if nothing else he would give you depth and free the team up in case they completely miss out on an LT prospect in the draft.
 
cland said:
I hate to say it, but I would feel a whole lot "safer" for the Oline if the Texans could get Cam Robinson here for a year. Now he's just an average (if that) LT, but if nothing else he would give you depth and free the team up in case they completely miss out on an LT prospect in the draft.
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I'm with you Cland in that I also like the idea of an ins policy for CJs blind side as long as the
premium is not too high.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
Ohio State LG- Donovan Jackson is the best instant answer available at 25.

I wouldn’t trade up for Booker b/c Jackson is every bit his equal and should be available at 25.

I’d really like to trade back 2-3 spots while picking up an additional pick in RD5 or RD6.
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Currently, I am thinking Nick could trade down ; Chicago needs an edge rusher [Ezeiruaku] for 39 and 72. We may have to throw in a 7th rounder.

39 LG Donovan Jackson 58 WR Bech 72 RB Skattebo
79 TE Fannin 89 LT Charles Grant
 
badboy said:
Currently, I am thinking Nick could trade down ; Chicago needs an edge rusher [Ezeiruaku] for 39 and 72. We may have to throw in a 7th rounder.

39 LG Donovan Jackson 58 WR Bech 72 RB Skattebo
79 TE Fannin 89 LT Charles Grant
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That would be a solid draft. I think Skattebo is a very intriguing prospect, but he needs to go where an OC knows how to use him right (hopefully here).
 
I don't know what to say or think about this string of OL moves. Can they keep CJ healthy and protected? Will they be as good, worse or better than last season? Honestly, until they are on the field we can't know for sure. I just hope that we get 2 OL players in the draft in the first 3 rounds. Otherwise, if it's bad, we have no plan "B" I am aware of
 
BullRushTX said:
That would be a solid draft. I think Skattebo is a very intriguing prospect, but he needs to go where an OC knows how to use him right (hopefully here).
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I like Skattebo, but I would rather have one of the like 20 6' 210-220lb 4.4 40, ability to block and catch (as well as create in space) RBs that will be available probably into late 3rd early 4th round. One I would love to get is Edward's from Michigan. Kid can play and is likely to get better in a season or 2. Should be around in round 3, middle.

www.nfldraftbuzz.com

Donovan Edwards Running Back Michigan | NFL Draft Profile & Scouting Report

Rating: 79.1 Rank: #24 Forty: 4.44 <p> Donovan Edwards showcases a dynamic blend of explosiveness and versatility, making him a high-upside NFL prospect. His dual-threat capability as a...
www.nfldraftbuzz.com www.nfldraftbuzz.com
 
BullRushTX said:
.
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SnakeEyes said:
I don't know what to say or think about this string of OL moves. Can they keep CJ healthy and protected? Will they be as good, worse or better than last season? Honestly, until they are on the field we can't know for sure. I just hope that we get 2 OL players in the draft in the first 3 rounds. Otherwise, if it's bad, we have no plan "B" I am aware of
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I 'm with you S-E 'cause I dunno what to think either ?
One thing is I get the impression that Demeco, NC, and their new coaching staff are very comfortable and confident in what they are doing, otherwise how could they part ways
with the most important ins policy (blind-side protection) the team had for its franchise QB ?
So just gonna have to ride with Demeco & Nick and see what their cmplete plan is ?
 
Anyone heard anything on Tomlinson, why he hasn't played up to his pro-bowl '21 season? The Seahawks had a coaching change in '23? Age? He's 33. He was a "consensus" All American at Duke, in '14 and a 1st round pick in '15.

Except for his age, an ok trade, if nothing else, for depth. But why the decline in play?
 
Number19 said:
Anyone heard anything on Tomlinson, why he hasn't played up to his pro-bowl '21 season? The Seahawks had a coaching change in '23? Age? He's 33. He was a "consensus" All American at Duke, in '14 and a 1st round pick in '15.

Except for his age, an ok trade, if nothing else, for depth. But why the decline in play?
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He went to the Jets after 2021. It’s a rule players don’t play well on the Jets.

Seahawks just fired their college OC for being too off-balance as a play caller.

2021 Lil Shanny was calling the plays for a very talented 49ers offense.

He was bad on Detroit as well. Good on the 49ers. Good teams/coaches usually make players look a lot better than their talent suggests. Bad teams/coaches make them look worse. We are hoping Caley and Caserio can be more like Lil Shanny and Lynch.
 
banned1976 said:
The problem with that is Caserio gave Tunsil an enormous extension in 2023, gave Howard a big extension in 2023, and drafted Kenyon Green. I have no reason to trust Caserio will get it right this time. Hopefully Scrugs and Fischer turn the corner in years 2 (Fischer) and 3 (Scruggs), both drafted in round 2 because right now it looks like they are a big part of the plan.

Until the Texans solve the new problem (it was a problem last year, now it's a bigger problem) they have in pass protection, they're going to need to be a lot more consistent in run blocking.
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The thing that gives me hope with Caserio is that he put together a patchwork OL in 2023 that was better than the starters in 2024. Caserio did his usual thing by working the waiver wire and making trades.

The things that hurt in 2024 were that Scruggs wasn’t good enough at center, Tunsil and Howard weren’t in training camp and ready to go at the start, and Green kept on getting trotted out there.

Patterson should have started at center sooner, Tunsil and Howard should have been at training camp, and Green should have been benched sooner.

The Tunsil is extension wasn’t bad. You have a rookie QB you have to make sure he is protected.

You have to look back and see where we were in 2023 too. I don’t know the exact dates of the signing but the Texans weren’t a prime destination spot. Attracting free agents wasn’t as easy as it is now. So having to over pay for an average player and a declining elite LT might have been the only option.
 
Here is the thing about OL players. A guy will excel in a certain kind of protections and be awful in others. So, if the new guys are good at the style they are going to be using it's smart. If not...

As for why the FO traded and cut OL players. I have read that LT is not a leader, and in the locker room he didn't hold anyone accountable for anything. Basically he just kept to himself. Causing the other players (likely the ones gone) to just ho-hum along. And the OL room was becoming toxic. So, LT was probably traded for cap space. But, Green and Mason...to get the OL room all on the same page. Sadly, a "source" who doesn't want to be named said this. I personally would like to hear the whole story
 
thunderkyss said:
I don’t think we had a “tackle” problem at any time during the season. Worse it got was Fisher’s 3rd game (I think) as a starter. They weren’t great in the run game, but that’s the job of the interior.

Aside from the false starts that is.
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Wasn’t there a “holding” issue too? Or an illegal formation? And an illegal man downfield?

I agree it wasn’t a tackle problem but it seemed some of the tackles just had ill timed penalties that drew attention to them and stalled drives.
 
At this time I’m thinking we added some depth on the Ol. The D seems to be set so that leads me to believe this draft will be heavy on OL and offense. There are several good OT and then there is Tyler Booker that can be taken in the 1st. Yes there is a possibility of a trade up and then a trade back into the 1st round. The draft is still in the pencil mode and will start to firm up in coming weeks. I still think we will move up to get Banks and hopefully Tyler Booker. The rest of the draft is where I’m soft on setting picks at this point.
 
AcresHomesTexan said:
I was just thinking that the Texans exchanged Mason for Tomlinson and Green for Ingram...Literally the same types of players and with the same type of pass game results
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Two more JAG’S, but new JAG’S 😬

Obviously Caserio couldn’t afford to pay market rates for the better veteran offensive linemen, all that cap hit went to retool the defense. It’s coming via draft and there’s players in the draft Texans will covet. 2nd & 3rd days Texans will load up on OL. 1st round probably still goes to skilled offensive player, Emeka Egbuka, Matthew Golden, Colston Loveland, but I wouldn’t be mad if those guys were already taken and Grey Zabel is starring you in the face.
 
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beerlover said:
Two more JAG’S, but new JAG’S 😬

Obviously Caserio couldn’t afford to pay market rates for the better veteran offensive linemen, all that cap hit went to retool the defense. It’s coming via draft and there’s players in the draft Texans will covet. 2nd & 3rd days Texans will load up on OL. 1st round probably still goes to skilled offensive player, Emeka Egbuka, Matthew Golden, Colston Loveland, but I wouldn’t be mad if those guys were already taken and Grey Zabel is starring you in the face.
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He could have spent more on the offense. Example, he could've signed Robinson for the money he spent on Watson, Berrios. There are still some cheap ol out there that he could've spent money on instead of adding Ingram, Tomlinson.

I'm hoping for either Loveland at 1-25 or trading down and adding Taylor, Milum in the 2nd and Savion in the 3rd.
 
Will Hernandez would be a terrific signing, and should be reasonable. Same can be said for Joe Noteboom. Imstead of the two guys they signed, I would have signed these two. Very reasonable and at worst darn good depth. At this point, best we can hope is one more lineman and I’m not even sure they do that.

Very underwhelmed by their offensive moves…outside of Kirk. That one was good. They have strengthened an already good defense…should now be elite.

But they are going backwards on an offense that needed priority. It’s a head scratcher. Ya I know…there is a plan yada, yada, yada.
 
steelbtexan said:
He could have spent more on the offense. Example, he could've signed Robinson for the money he spent on Watson, Berrios. There are still some cheap ol out there that he could've spent money on instead of adding Ingram, Tomlinson.

I'm hoping for either Loveland at 1-25 or trading down and adding Taylor, Milum in the 2nd and Savion in the 3rd.
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Not saying I disagree but when it comes to OL, Caserio has taken a lot of heat, for making bad decisions. Whether it’s all on him or prior staff, he’s probably leaning hard on Caley. So they have a plan to get younger, manage cost control and not over spend in a poor OL free agent market. He will not get burned again 🔥
 
steelbtexan said:
He could have spent more on the offense. Example, he could've signed Robinson for the money he spent on Watson, Berrios. There are still some cheap ol out there that he could've spent money on instead of adding Ingram, Tomlinson.

I'm hoping for either Loveland at 1-25 or trading down and adding Taylor, Milum in the 2nd and Savion in the 3rd.
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You wanted Robinson. They wanted Watson and Berrios. We’ll see how it goes. None of the three are going to make or break a season. Not worth getting bent out of shape about for career JAGS.
 
I'd take a wait and see position on OG Ed Ingram. He's still on his rookie contract and had an OK season his second year before regressing a bit his third. Go to DraftBuzz and read his write up. With the Vikings, he started 41 games, so he's seasoned which should help make the transition to Houston's playbook. He's just a small bit bigger than Mason, but I'd have liked to have seen some added growth since being drafted. He's still listed at his college weight 307 lbs. Has played both sides but has more time on the left. At this stage, still a JAG, but still has an upside.
 
So far the offensive line hasn't improved, if anything, it's gotten worse. Since they look like they aren't going to do much more in free agency, that means the offensive line has to be fixed in the draft. Which is a decidedly dangerous thing to attempt with the picks we got.

So far it's looking just like last year, a defense good enough to keep us in almost all games, but an offense that can't do enough.
 
BullRushTX said:
I'm big on Booker, Zabel, and Savalinaea. Booker and Zabel look for contact and are well rounded. Savalinaea isn't a mauler, but he has great feet and is good in pass protection. I'll have to watch film of the other guys you listed. I was interested in Ratledge, but he's going to get wrecked in pass protection by NFL DTs.
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One of them was supposed to be Hollin Pierce ..... He's huge, athletic, intelligent, well-spoken, amiable .... reeks of that easy going confidence that surfaces in so many accomplished athletes .... they're comfortable in their own skin ..... which usually translates to .... " " " I'm very close to who I want to be, and a real good coach will polish me" ! With him, I think it is - lose twenty pounds and work on agility drills !
 
steelbtexan said:
He could have spent more on the offense. Example, he could've signed Robinson for the money he spent on Watson, Berrios. There are still some cheap ol out there that he could've spent money on instead of adding Ingram, Tomlinson.

I'm hoping for either Loveland at 1-25 or trading down and adding Taylor, Milum in the 2nd and Savion in the 3rd.
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As it stands now, the FO seems more concerned with ST than the Oline. So either the see a problem we don't and have addressed it, or the plan is still fluid.

I did not enjoy typing that.
 
Thorn said:
So far the offensive line hasn't improved, if anything, it's gotten worse. Since they look like they aren't going to do much more in free agency, that means the offensive line has to be fixed in the draft. Which is a decidedly dangerous thing to attempt with the picks we got.

So far it's looking just like last year, a defense good enough to keep us in almost all games, but an offense that can't do enough.
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I'm going to disagree with your first sentence. Our OL, I'd say, almost certainly hasn't gotten worst. And, likely, has incrementally improved.

Fisher, at RT, with his rookie season under his belt, should be expected to improve.

Ed Ingram, at RG, should be expected to be no worst than Mason, last season. However, not unreasonable to expect modest improved play.

Patterson, at C, should be improved.

LT is a question mark. Howard could improve the run blocking but will not be as good as Tunsil in his pass protection. It's a wash.

RG is also a question mark. Laken Tomlinson, with 10 years experience, has started 155 games with 4 teams, including starting for 5 years with the 49ers. We may call him a JAG, but he's a JAG who has been good enough to start for every team he's played on. As bad as LG was for us last season, there is no reason to expect Tomlinson to perform worst.

Bottom line, and without factoring in the draft, we should expect incremental improved play from our OL this coming season.
 
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The line today is worse than last year imho so I’m 100% with Thorn. Expected to, might, could, maybe, hope…these are the words the band members on the Titanic used when told to play some calming music while the ship was slowly sinking. The captain knows what he is doing, just play a few numbers. Right now, Nick is whistling a tune but I’m not trusting this cat to steer the ship away from the iceberg. He has absolutely zero pelts on the wall as it relates to the line.

Im out of hope man. I need something that tells me they know what the hell they are doing, thatthey are attacking it with vigor, and give a damn about protecting CJ and want to blow up some defensive lineman and LB’s to make way for Mixon.
 
House of Pain said:
I would imagine those guys will be here closer to the draft. I don't recall the part in the NFL rules requiring teams to fix their problems exclusively through FA.

We're not in the building and have no idea what the internal analysis of our roster sounds like. If we did, I'm sure we would have signed some different IOLs and possibly an OT. They may have a plan? Right now, without the draft, the plan looks like "We're going to suck on the OL" but we're not there yet IMO.

I would also like to say that my level of trust with this organization (NC specifically) picking OL players, is akin to allowing my child to go camping with a pedophile. Let's hope that changes...for the OL players sake.
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Whether creative or not, the Texans don't have money for having any "plans"! :shades:
 
Porky said:
The line today is worse than last year imho so I’m 100% with Thorn. Expected to, might, could, maybe, hope…these are the words the band members on the Titanic used when told to play some calming music while the ship was slowly sinking.
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And yet you repeatedly told us the line would improve just by getting rid of Tunsil and you've denounced Green since he was drafted. Listening to you is an exercise in futility with your over the top hyperbole and wishy washy stances.
 
At this point the offensive line will keep the Texans from reaching the SB. It's sucked for a while now, and unless they get lucky in the draft will continue to hold the team back. It's an obvious weak point in the Texans. Which doesn't mean Casino won't pull a few rabbits out of his hat in the draft. It's just that's what it will take at this point, a very fortunate and lucky draft.
 
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