Texans Offensive Line

[Porky]

And yet you repeatedly told us the line would improve just by getting rid of Tunsil and you've denounced Green since he was drafted. Listening to you is an exercise in futility with your over the top hyperbole and wishy washy stances.

Fair criticism but I Stand by that stance. Just removing the boil is step one of multiple steps to clear the skin. You don’t Lance a boil and then stop treatment. Yes removal is good. But what’s next? I assumed their would be corresponding moves. In fact one of my first posts on the Tunsil trade, I said corresponding moves incoming. The two people added are not impressive, especially Mr. Ed.

Step one - get rid of the non-swarmers and the under-performers. I would even argue you can lump Howard in there…but all in all…successful step one.

Step two - sign swarm type lineman to replace the non-swarmers…and improve the interior of the line in particular. On this one…I will call it in progress, but so far not very impressed.

 

[JB]

The two people added are not impressive, especially Mr. Ed.

I think they were impressed by what they saw from Ed Ingram when they played the Vikings, especially in the run game. Time will tell if it was a good decision or not but I'm in a wait-n-see mode until the season starts. Still lots of time and opportunity to work things out

 

[Thorn]

I think they were impressed by what they saw from Ed Ingram when they played the Vikings, especially in the run game. Time will tell if it was a good decision or not but I'm in a wait-n-see mode until the season starts. Still lots of time and opportunity to work things out

Yep. It's a long ways to September. I'm hoping Tricky Nick and DeMeco get this figured out by then.

 

[AcresHomesTexan]

Given that Caserio and whoever has been anywhere from acceptable to excellent at all positions except OL, the last thing I want is for them to rush and sign names to make it look like they are doing something over actually getting the OL correct.

 

[thunderkyss]

How many Guards with an A grade in this draft?

 

[SnakeEyes]

An OL move is going to be made during the draft. What round of it or exact position I'm not sure.

 

[SnakeEyes]

How many Guards with an A grade in this draft?

Many T and Centers have a B+ or better grade at G... strange as that is. Multiple players who can play 2 or all 3 positions and some who can play all 5 spots.

 

[cland]

Okay here's my crazy plan/gamble/would-give-Harbaugh-my-dog idea for the day. The Chargers haven't given Rashawn Slater an extension and he's going into his 5th year. They just signed Joe Alt last year so they clearly have a replacement LT.

Slater is the guy I would give up 2 1st rounders for. He's only 25 and he's from Sugarland so I would love to bring him home!

Of course the problem is that Jimmy H loves himself some offensive line, and the Chargers currently have tons of cap space. The only prayer is that Herbert's new contract escalates pretty quickly, and maybe they can see that having two elite tackles is unsustainable in the future (and want to cash in now.)

Tricky Nick, this is the time to settle the score on your offensive line woes. Make it happen!

 

[Lucky]

How many Guards with an A grade in this draft?

I don't know of anyone that grades by A's and B's. But here are Lance Zierlein's OG grades of the top 5 or 6 from each class 2022 to this year.

Donovan Jackson - 2025 - 6.39
Tyler Booker - 2025 - 6.38
O'Cyrus Torrence - 2023 - 6.38
Jackson Powers-Johnson - 2024 - 6.36
Steve Avila - 2023 - 6.30
Cooper Beebe - 2024 - 6.29
Cole Strange - 2022 - 6.29
Tate Ratledge - 2025 - 6.28
Christian Haynes - 2024 - 6.27
Logan Bruss - 2022 - 6.26
Luke Goedeke = 2022 - 6.26
Marcus Mbow - 2025 - 6.25
Wyatt Milum - 2025 - 6.24
Zak Zinter - 2024 - 6.24
Andrew Vorhees - 2023 - 6.24
Chandler Zavala - 2023 - 6.24
Darian Kinnard - 2022 - 6.24
Dylan Parham - 2022 - 6.23
Domonick Puni - 2024 - 6.20
Brandon Coleman - 2024 - 6.19
Anthony Bradford - 2023 - 6.19

 

[SnakeEyes]

Good article on the OL.

How Texans hit ‘reset button’ to overhaul offensive line, what’s the plan for key position group in flux

Offensive line being overhauled

www.click2houston.com

 

[SnakeEyes]

I don't know of anyone that grades by A's and B's. But here are Lance Zierlein's OG grades of the top 5 or 6 from each class 2022 to this year.

Donovan Jackson - 2025 - 6.39
Tyler Booker - 2025 - 6.38
O'Cyrus Torrence - 2023 - 6.38
Jackson Powers-Johnson - 2024 - 6.36
Steve Avila - 2023 - 6.30
Cooper Beebe - 2024 - 6.29
Cole Strange - 2022 - 6.29
Tate Ratledge - 2025 - 6.28
Christian Haynes - 2024 - 6.27
Logan Bruss - 2022 - 6.26
Luke Goedeke = 2022 - 6.26
Marcus Mbow - 2025 - 6.25
Wyatt Milum - 2025 - 6.24
Zak Zinter - 2024 - 6.24
Andrew Vorhees - 2023 - 6.24
Chandler Zavala - 2023 - 6.24
Darian Kinnard - 2022 - 6.24
Dylan Parham - 2022 - 6.23
Domonick Puni - 2024 - 6.20
Brandon Coleman - 2024 - 6.19
Anthony Bradford - 2023 - 6.19

Of that list, who are true OGs and who can play other spots with pretty much no drop off?

 

[House of Pain]

Two more JAG’S, but new JAG’S

Obviously Caserio couldn’t afford to pay market rates for the better veteran offensive linemen, all that cap hit went to retool the defense. It’s coming via draft and there’s players in the draft Texans will covet. 2nd & 3rd days Texans will load up on OL. 1st round probably still goes to skilled offensive player, Emeka Egbuka, Matthew Golden, Colston Loveland, but I wouldn’t be mad if those guys were already taken and Grey Zabel is starring you in the face.

To expound on this a little bit, I think Nick wants a sustained offensive line. He could get some veteran one year contracts, but then again, we're going to be right back where we were and with less money. Those players could retire or choose a different team in FA next year that offers more money. Also, I think he wanted some fall back options where he wouldn't have to make a huge reach in the draft if a particular linemen wasn't available. I'm sure if you were to talk to him off the record, he would tell you that he's not satisfied with what he currently has at OL. As fans, we don't want to risk CJ out there for even one snap, but I think they are taking this calculated risk to fix the problem long term instead of putting a Band-Aid on it.

They just extended Stingley, they're going to have to extend WAJ and CJ, I think they know that they have to get young, cheaper players, for the line. They did this in NE when the Patriots were an elite team in the league. Nothing has given me confidence that Caserio is going to be able to pick OL talent but in theory, if he Caley and Popovich could do that then this period of turnover is just going to be a bump in the road.

I'm guessing that's the plan. Probably not what people want to hear, but if it's successful, they will be set on the OL for a while. Since I'm not the GM or the HC, I don't have a choice in the matter.

 

[Lucky]

Of that list, who are true OGs and who can play other spots with pretty much no drop off?

At the NFL level, the Commanders Brandon Coleman played LT last season. But Washington just traded for Tunsil, and plan to move Coleman to OG. Ohio States Donovan Jackson moved out to LT after the injury to Josh Simmons went down. But most feel Jackson will be back at OG in the NFL. Wyatt Milius was a LT for 3 years at West Virginia. But it is assumed he move inside once drafted. Same with Mbow, who most think will play on the interior after playing RT in college.

 

[Porky]

This deal with Darby, although short-term and cheap by NFL standards, indicates that they are most likely finished addressing the line until the draft. They may sign a swing tackle like Fant or swing a trade later on. So, I am not fully closing the door, but their urgency level regarding the offensive line is around a 2, and for me, it should be a 9. If your house is on fire, you don't mess around and play the banjo; you get the hell out.

This is a very risky strategy because you're investing in an unproven asset, and offensive linemen often need a year of seasoning to show what they can do.

It will be celebrated as brilliant if it works and Nick will get his flowers. This is a similar strategy to what they did in New England. But New England had a guy named Tom Brady running the ship.

So, they are getting younger and cheaper on the offensive line while spending big money on cornerback, wide receiver, defensive end, and quarterback.

If it doesn't work, which I think is around 50/50, Nick will be criticized by fans and media alike, and in a worst-case scenario, it could even cost him his job.

I suspect we will draft a guard or IOL type and a tackle with those first four picks. Nick needs to succeed with both players to make this strategy pay off.

 

[badboy]

This deal with Darby, although short-term and cheap by NFL standards, indicates that they are most likely finished addressing the line until the draft. They may sign a swing tackle like Fant or swing a trade later on. So, I am not fully closing the door, but their urgency level regarding the offensive line is around a 2, and for me, it should be a 9. If your house is on fire, you don't mess around and play the banjo; you get the hell out.

This is a very risky strategy because you're investing in an unproven asset, and offensive linemen often need a year of seasoning to show what they can do.

It will be celebrated as brilliant if it works and Nick will get his flowers. This is a similar strategy to what they did in New England. But New England had a guy named Tom Brady running the ship.

So, they are getting younger and cheaper on the offensive line while spending big money on cornerback, wide receiver, defensive end, and quarterback.

If it doesn't work, which I think is around 50/50, Nick will be criticized by fans and media alike, and in a worst-case scenario, it could even cost him his job.

I suspect we will draft a guard or IOL type and a tackle with those first four picks. Nick needs to succeed with both players to make this strategy pay off.

Using your house on fire analogy, I see it more as Nick used the garden hose to put the fire out rather than call the fire department and have it flooded. Howard $23 m as new LT isn't cheap.
Nick is taking risks and not just the offensive line. If he's correct, he should be praised. If not, he should be criticized.

Simmons, Conerly; Donovan Jackson and perhaps Zabel and Grant could switch between tackle and guard. Prefer not to move Fisher to left tackle but if needed, will happen.

 

[AcresHomesTexan]

Commanders' Laremy Tunsil: Texans Prioritized Other Players For Extensions

Laremy Tunsil said his trade from the Texans was financially motivated. Read more on PFR.

www.profootballrumors.com

 

[SnakeEyes]

This deal with Darby, although short-term and cheap by NFL standards, indicates that they are most likely finished addressing the line until the draft. They may sign a swing tackle like Fant or swing a trade later on. So, I am not fully closing the door, but their urgency level regarding the offensive line is around a 2, and for me, it should be a 9. If your house is on fire, you don't mess around and play the banjo; you get the hell out.

This is a very risky strategy because you're investing in an unproven asset, and offensive linemen often need a year of seasoning to show what they can do.

It will be celebrated as brilliant if it works and Nick will get his flowers. This is a similar strategy to what they did in New England. But New England had a guy named Tom Brady running the ship.

So, they are getting younger and cheaper on the offensive line while spending big money on cornerback, wide receiver, defensive end, and quarterback.

If it doesn't work, which I think is around 50/50, Nick will be criticized by fans and media alike, and in a worst-case scenario, it could even cost him his job.

I suspect we will draft a guard or IOL type and a tackle with those first four picks. Nick needs to succeed with both players to make this strategy pay off.

That's true. But, it depends on what type of system you run and what type players you get. A zone blocking OL is going to be built and look different than a gap scheme. So, not only is the player important, but so is what they have played for 5+ years. A zone line is more like the Broncos of old with TD running behind them. 6' 4" 308lb Speedy and precise players. That player is not going to be good in a gap system for at least a season or two a d at worst...ever

 

[beerlover]

How many Guards with an A grade in this draft?

IMO - 1 Grey Zabel

Something no one is talking about, he can play LT. In fact, if Caley opens competition @ LT position and just doesn’t hand it over to Tytus Howard, I would guarantee he pulls a Kamari Lassiter and win the starting role.

 

[JB]

I don't know of anyone that grades by A's and B's. But here are Lance Zierlein's OG grades of the top 5 or 6 from each class 2022 to this year.

Donovan Jackson - 2025 - 6.39
Tyler Booker - 2025 - 6.38
O'Cyrus Torrence - 2023 - 6.38
Jackson Powers-Johnson - 2024 - 6.36
Steve Avila - 2023 - 6.30
Cooper Beebe - 2024 - 6.29
Cole Strange - 2022 - 6.29
Tate Ratledge - 2025 - 6.28
Christian Haynes - 2024 - 6.27
Logan Bruss - 2022 - 6.26
Luke Goedeke = 2022 - 6.26
Marcus Mbow - 2025 - 6.25
Wyatt Milum - 2025 - 6.24
Zak Zinter - 2024 - 6.24
Andrew Vorhees - 2023 - 6.24
Chandler Zavala - 2023 - 6.24
Darian Kinnard - 2022 - 6.24
Dylan Parham - 2022 - 6.23
Domonick Puni - 2024 - 6.20
Brandon Coleman - 2024 - 6.19
Anthony Bradford - 2023 - 6.19

Grey Zabel= 2025 - 6.34

 

[beerlover]

Grey Zabel= 2025 - 6.3

How many are capable of excelling @ every position on the offensive line? Different question for Lance to ponder

 

[steelbtexan]

This deal with Darby, although short-term and cheap by NFL standards, indicates that they are most likely finished addressing the line until the draft. They may sign a swing tackle like Fant or swing a trade later on. So, I am not fully closing the door, but their urgency level regarding the offensive line is around a 2, and for me, it should be a 9. If your house is on fire, you don't mess around and play the banjo; you get the hell out.

This is a very risky strategy because you're investing in an unproven asset, and offensive linemen often need a year of seasoning to show what they can do.

It will be celebrated as brilliant if it works and Nick will get his flowers. This is a similar strategy to what they did in New England. But New England had a guy named Tom Brady running the ship.

So, they are getting younger and cheaper on the offensive line while spending big money on cornerback, wide receiver, defensive end, and quarterback.

If it doesn't work, which I think is around 50/50, Nick will be criticized by fans and media alike, and in a worst-case scenario, it could even cost him his job.

I suspect we will draft a guard or IOL type and a tackle with those first four picks. Nick needs to succeed with both players to make this strategy pay off.

It seems to me we're going to find out a lot about CJ this year. Was his rookie yr a fluke, or was his 2nd yr a fluke?

 

[cland]

IMO - 1 Grey Zabel

Something no one is talking about, he can play LT. In fact, if Caley opens competition @ LT position and just doesn’t hand it over to Tytus Howard, I would guarantee he pulls a Kamari Lassiter and win the starting role.

The issue with Zabel at LT is that his arms are 2 inches shorter than the ideal LT and his wing span is in the bottom 1%. I posted a list in another thread that showed 18/20 LT pro-bowlers had 34 inch and that the two who didn't scored a 10 on the RAS.

 

[beerlover]

The issue with Zabel at LT is that his arms are 2 inches shorter than the ideal LT and his wing span is in the bottom 1%. I posted a list in another thread that showed 18/20 LT pro-bowlers had 34 inch and that the two who didn't scored a 10 on the RAS.

Yeah I know, he is the outlier. His feet & footwork are elite, frame 6-6 315 lbs which more than compensates for 2 inches.

 

[badboy]

Yeah I know, he is the outlier. His feet & footwork are elite, frame 6-6 315 lbs which more than compensates for 2 inches.

Another thing to keep in mind is both Zabel and Charles Grant are excellent at pass blocking and run blocking. You cannot say that about too many others who can play tackle or guard. I could see Zabel at 25 and Grant with one of our round threes. Wr round 2 and RB with the other third round.

 

[Errant Hothy]

IMO - 1 Grey Zabel

Something no one is talking about, he can play LT. In fact, if Caley opens competition @ LT position and just doesn’t hand it over to Tytus Howard, I would guarantee he pulls a Kamari Lassiter and win the starting role.

Or, hear me out, draft Zabel and put him at Center. Mirror what the Bucs did with Graham Barton.

 

[JRingo]

Camp bodies competitions and change of scenery. Some of these might not make the team. I’m pretty sure they’ll draft a few offensive interior linemen.

Let’s not jump the gun people

We’re trying,.

 

[beerlover]

Or, hear me out, draft Zabel and put him at Center. Mirror what the Bucs did with Graham Barton.

Thats just it, he could also be best Center in the draft, though don’t love 6’6“ Centers. Probably best all all-around LG in draft and someone, who could kick outside if needed. Versatlity is off the charts, but unsure how NFL values that?

 

[IDEXAN]

g no one is talking about, he can play LT. In fact, if Caley opens competition @ LT position and just doesn’t hand it over to Tytus Howard, I would guarantee he pulls a Kamari Lassiter and win the starting role.

I dunno was Demecos teammate Eric Winston, also an OT shorty, a comparable for Zabel ?

 

[BullRushTX]

I dunno was Demecos teammate Eric Winston, also an OT shorty, a comparable for Zabel ?

That comp is pretty close. Zabel measures like a more athletic Eric Winston:

Grey Zabel:

• Height: 6 ft 5 7⁄8 in
• Weight: 312 lb
• Arm length: 32
• Hand span: 9 1⁄2
• Vertical jump: 36.5 in
• Broad jump: 9 ft 3 in
• Bench press: 26 reps

Eric Winston:

• Height: 6 ft 6 5⁄8 in
• Weight: 310 lb
• Arm length: 32 1⁄4
• Hand span: 9 1⁄4
• Vertical jump: 29.0 in
• Broad jump: 9 ft
• Bench press: 22 reps

 

[SnakeEyes]

IMO - 1 Grey Zabel

Something no one is talking about, he can play LT. In fact, if Caley opens competition @ LT position and just doesn’t hand it over to Tytus Howard, I would guarantee he pulls a Kamari Lassiter and win the starting role.

Zabel is good, nice mentality on the field. Good motor, nasty streak. But, is he a zone or gap guy? In Caley running a gap or zone system? We only know he plans to use an I form more.

 

[Lucky]

Grey Zabel= 2025 - 6.34

How many are capable of excelling @ every position on the offensive line? Different question for Lance to ponder

Zabel is listed at OT in the NFL.com database. But many feel he can move to OC. Zabel could also be moved to OG. That's the case for most of the linemen on the list. I was wondering if UT RT Cameron Williams might be a candidate to move inside? Start at OG then move to RT later.

 

[BullRushTX]

Regarding Zabel, a few things popped out that I really liked from this article. He played three sports in HS. He was not considered a good prospect out of HS because he was only 240 lbs, but he was able to put on 72 lbs in college. He had penalty issues in college, but he was able to clean it up in his last season. He seems like a guy who is dedicated and puts in the work to improve. They have him listed as a good scheme fit for a zone scheme, but also point out that he's athletic enough to fit in other schemes.

Grey Zabel

Scouting OverviewNorth Dakota State offensive tackle Grey Zabel is a highly experienced FCS offensive lineman with the play demeanor to make a successful leap to the NFL level.He’s tough and gritty, plays through the end of the echo of the whistle, and has developed his frame into an NFL body to...

www.the33rdteam.com

 

[Lucky]

But, is he a zone or gap guy? In Caley running a gap or zone system? We only know he plans to use an I form more.

Watching Zabel's college games, he was in a ZBS. And he did a very good job at getting to the 2nd level. I don't think that precludes Zabel from playing in a gap system, though. His main drawback is just getting used to the speed of the game.

 

[IDEXAN]

That comp is pretty close. Zabel measures like a more athletic Eric Winston:

Grey Zabel:

• Height: 6 ft 5 7⁄8 in
• Weight: 312 lb
• Arm length: 32
• Hand span: 9 1⁄2
• Vertical jump: 36.5 in
• Broad jump: 9 ft 3 in
• Bench press: 26 reps

Eric Winston:

• Height: 6 ft 6 5⁄8 in
• Weight: 310 lb
• Arm length: 32 1⁄4
• Hand span: 9 1⁄4
• Vertical jump: 29.0 in
• Broad jump: 9 ft
• Bench press: 22 reps

Mb

That comp is pretty close. Zabel measures like a more athletic Eric Winston:

Grey Zabel:

• Height: 6 ft 5 7⁄8 in
• Weight: 312 lb
• Arm length: 32
• Hand span: 9 1⁄2
• Vertical jump: 36.5 in
• Broad jump: 9 ft 3 in
• Bench press: 26 reps

Eric Winston:

• Height: 6 ft 6 5⁄8 in
• Weight: 310 lb
• Arm length: 32 1⁄4
• Hand span: 9 1⁄4
• Vertical jump: 29.0 in
• Broad jump: 9 ft
• Bench press: 22 reps

Is he really more athletic, since Winston was a sub 5.0 lineman ?
So why is Zabel projected as a first round pick while Winston was on the Board until the third round ? Zabel strikes me as the kind of prospect who could slip well back into the second round.

 

[BullRushTX]

Mb

Is he really more athletic, since Winston was a sub 5.0 lineman ?
So why is Zabel projected as a first round pick while Winston was on the Board until the third round ? Zabel strikes me as the kind of prospect who could slip well back into the second round.

I'd have to look back at Winston's draft. Could be that it was a deeper draft for O-line. For Zabel, I don't think he goes any lower than 46.

 

[SnakeEyes]

Watching Zabel's college games, he was in a ZBS. And he did a very good job at getting to the 2nd level. I don't think that precludes Zabel from playing in a gap system, though. His main drawback is just getting used to the speed of the game.

His weight at 312 is right on the Zone/Gap line. But, I do like him.

Grey Zabel Offensive Tackle North Dakota State | NFL Draft Profile & Scouting Report

Rating: 87.2 Rank: #5 Forty: 5.30 Zabel's calling card jumps off the screen - he's a technician who brings controlled violence to every snap. The footwork, hip drive, and natural leverage h...

www.nfldraftbuzz.com

 

[AcresHomesTexan]

His weight at 312 is right on the Zone/Gap line. But, I do like him.

Grey Zabel Offensive Tackle North Dakota State | NFL Draft Profile & Scouting Report

Rating: 87.2 Rank: #5 Forty: 5.30 Zabel's calling card jumps off the screen - he's a technician who brings controlled violence to every snap. The footwork, hip drive, and natural leverage h...

www.nfldraftbuzz.com

Which is ideal for most of the NFL

The so-called zone/gap line isn't the way we old-timers remember it from Kubiak days...Most of the NFL runs both. Closer to what is your percentage of Gap versus zone versus...so linemen who can do one at an acceptable level and the other should be a strength is ideal.

 

[Lucky]

I'd have to look back at Winston's draft. Could be that it was a deeper draft for O-line.

2006 was not a deep draft for OT. Winston was OT8 at pick 3.66. Charles Spencer was OT7 one pick prior. D'Brickashaw Ferguson was the only OT taken in the 1st round, 1.4 by the Jets. The best OT taken was Andrew Whitworth at 2.55.

 

[Errant Hothy]

Mb

Is he really more athletic, since Winston was a sub 5.0 lineman ?
So why is Zabel projected as a first round pick while Winston was on the Board until the third round ? Zabel strikes me as the kind of prospect who could slip well back into the second round.

I live for the day when 40 time isn't used to measure the athleticism of offensive lineman.

Also Winston ran a 4.94, with a 1.67 split, and Zabel doesn't have a time yet

 

[cland]

I live for the day when 40 time isn't used to measure the athleticism of offensive lineman.

Also Winston ran a 4.94, with a 1.67 split, and Zabel doesn't have a time yet

This ^. OL is always about the 3-cone and 20 yard shuttle, whether they can run 40 yards fast is basically moot.

 

[Lucky]

This ^. OL is always about the 3-cone and 20 yard shuttle, whether they can run 40 yards fast is basically moot.

The 40 can show an overall athleticism. And O-lineman are going against some fabulously athletic D-lineman. That can come into play. It's pretty rare that a guy that can't break a 5.3 40 makes it at LT (yeah, Orlando Brown). So, a sub 4.8 40 isn't necessary, But it can point to an exceptional O-line athlete (like Trent Williams, Lane Johnson).

 

[AcresHomesTexan]

The 40 can show an overall athleticism. And O-lineman are going against some fabulously athletic D-lineman. That can come into play. It's pretty rare that a guy that can't break a 5.3 40 makes it at LT (yeah, Orlando Brown). So, a sub 4.8 40 isn't necessary, But it can point to an exceptional O-line athlete (like Trent Williams, Lane Johnson).

One of the nerd sites provided the numbers to back up what you are saying. I don't remember which since I am all over the place during draft season.

 

[Lucky]

One of the nerd sites provided the numbers to back up what you are saying. I don't remember which since I am all over the place during draft season.

Usually, the numbers play out. There are always guys that defy the numbers, in both directions. I mentioned Orlando Brown, Jr., who had one of the worst combine performances in history. He's played in 4 Pro Bowls.

On the flipside, you have Bruce Campbell, OT from the 2010 draft. Campbell put on a show at 6'6" 314 lbs. 4.75 forty with 34 reps in the bench press. But the NFL knew Campbell couldn't play. He lasted when the 4th round, until the late, great Al Davis couldn't help himself and took the physical freak. Campbell was in the league 3 years, never started a single game.

 

[Errant Hothy]

The 40 can show an overall athleticism. And O-lineman are going against some fabulously athletic D-lineman. That can come into play. It's pretty rare that a guy that can't break a 5.3 40 makes it at LT (yeah, Orlando Brown). So, a sub 4.8 40 isn't necessary, But it can point to an exceptional O-line athlete (like Trent Williams, Lane Johnson).

All this is true, but I'd still put more faith in the 10-yard split, the jumps (broad and vertical) for measuring explosiveness, and the agility drills than the 40 time. And game tape trumps all of this when evaluating a player.

Too many combine wonders have failed, and too many HoF'ers had poor combine performances.

 

[Porky]

I don't remember Campbell. I really appreciate the info you add to discussions like this Lucky. You're a valuable member here. I appreciate you man. Good job.

 

[Porky]

I also think the 40 is overrated - even at positions like WR. I'm not saying it has no value, but I take 40 times with a grain of salt.

There are no pads on and nobody is chasing. You don't have to be the fastest gazelle in the bush. You just need to be faster than the lion behind you.

 

[SnakeEyes]

I'd have to look back at Winston's draft. Could be that it was a deeper draft for O-line. For Zabel, I don't think he goes any lower than 46.

I have seen him mocked to us at 25. IMO that is way too early. He is a 2nd round or so guy. Many OG and OT prospects are going to be around till mid 3rd.

 

[SnakeEyes]

Which is ideal for most of the NFL

The so-called zone/gap line isn't the way we old-timers remember it from Kubiak days...Most of the NFL runs both. Closer to what is your percentage of Gap versus zone versus...so linemen who can do one at an acceptable level and the other should be a strength is ideal.

Most ZBS guys are lighter and more athletic. While gap players are heavier and more likely to just slide to a side than get to the second level. Rarely do they touch a LB unless they blitz

 

[AcresHomesTexan]

I also think the 40 is overrated - even at positions like WR. I'm not saying it has no value, but I take 40 times with a grain of salt.

There are no pads on and nobody is chasing. You don't have to be the fastest gazelle in the bush. You just need to be faster than the lion behind you.

The 40 is clear entertainment that everyone can understand who is the fastest...In fact the parts of the combine that would boring as spit...the medicals and the interviews...are the things that matter.

From a draft coverage standpoint, the mock drafters get more information about where lots of teams have dudes rated versus their pet scouting contacts..."Up and down the board" more often mean I have talked enough people to find what teams really think of many of these guys.

 

[AcresHomesTexan]

Most ZBS guys are lighter and more athletic. While gap players are heavier and more likely to just slide to a side than get to the second level. Rarely do they touch a LB unless they blitz

Again we don't live the world where teams are exclusive to gap versus zone. Your linemen need some level of diversity.