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Texans Offensive Line

7

76Texan

Hall of Fame
They were ranked as high as 13th by this website after the second win (over the Titans)
www.footballguys.com

Offensive Line Rankings and Notes: Week 17

Offensive line related news, injuries, and updates, prior to Week 17 of the regular season.
www.footballguys.com www.footballguys.com

Howard was injured early and played only 10% of the snaps.

SQ, Cann, Tunsil, and Heck (RT) all play 100% of the snaps.

Morrissey 69% and McCray 21% both at Center.

Looks like there were some shuffling during the game.

All snap counts taken from
www.pro-football-reference.com

Houston Texans at Tennessee Titans - December 24th, 2022 | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Houston Texans 19 at Tennessee Titans 14 on December 24th, 2022 - Full team and player stats and box score
www.pro-football-reference.com www.pro-football-reference.com

That website downgrade the line to 16th after the loss to the Jaguars.
Only 5 linemen played, each at 100%:
Tunsil, Green, SQ, Cann, Howard.

The same line up also played the entire game over the Colts (the win in the last game of the season).

The Offensive Line was likely to grade out well in that final game.

I'm sure surprised to see those rankings.

I think PFF ranked the Texans Online at 26th.

What say you?
 
TexansFan15 said:
Do y’all think we’ll add our C in the draft or FA?
I personally want to draft. There seem to be at 5-7 guys that I’d draft to solidify the C position.
Click to expand...
So far thinking John Michael Schmitz top of 2nd rd, maybe can get Avila late 2nd or top 3rd as another option. I think draft a center, draft a guard, and expect some better play from health and strength/coaching from Kenyon Green and should be pretty reasonable OL
 
TexansFan15 said:
Do y’all think we’ll add our C in the draft or FA?
I personally want to draft. There seem to be at 5-7 guys that I’d draft to solidify the C position.
Click to expand...
I think it's gotta be free agency. I'd be happy to sign a guy like Pocic to a 2-3 year deal and draft a center day 2 for depth/to take over eventually.

If Green continues to struggle or we have to move on from Cann maybe slide the center we draft this year to guard to take over if possible.

But I really don't want to have the rookie QB step into a situation where we're counting on Green to develop and a rookie to start at center and play well
 
Khelar said:
I think it's gotta be free agency. I'd be happy to sign a guy like Pocic to a 2-3 year deal and draft a center day 2 for depth/to take over eventually.

If Green continues to struggle or we have to move on from Cann maybe slide the center we draft this year to guard to take over if possible.

But I really don't want to have the rookie QB step into a situation where we're counting on Green to develop and a rookie to start at center and play well
Click to expand...
Switching to a WCO/ZBS scheme will do wonders for Green as it really fits his skill set.
Kenyon Green NFL Draft profiles | PFF
Kenyon Green Offensive Guard Texas A&M | NFL Draft Profile & Scouting Report (nfldraftbuzz.com)
WalterFootball.com: 2022 NFL Draft Scouting Report: Kenyon Green
I would prefer the Texans to draft a center and sign one in FA. They need an upgrade at RG also. O'Cyrus Torrence from Florida would be a good pick at 33 overall, I would trade trade up to the mid-50's and get Schmitz for center. Pay Tunsil and Howard, and the Texans are set with a fantastic OL.
 
DocBar said:
Switching to a WCO/ZBS scheme will do wonders for Green as it really fits his skill set.
Kenyon Green NFL Draft profiles | PFF
Kenyon Green Offensive Guard Texas A&M | NFL Draft Profile & Scouting Report (nfldraftbuzz.com)
WalterFootball.com: 2022 NFL Draft Scouting Report: Kenyon Green
I would prefer the Texans to draft a center and sign one in FA. They need an upgrade at RG also. O'Cyrus Torrence from Florida would be a good pick at 33 overall, I would trade trade up to the mid-50's and get Schmitz for center. Pay Tunsil and Howard, and the Texans are set with a fantastic OL.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure it does fit his skillset. West coast offense usually is looking for more athletic offensive linemen and that does not fit the bill for Green. I don't mind any of those picks I'd just like a veteran center at this point but that's just me.
 
Khelar said:
I'm not sure it does fit his skillset. West coast offense usually is looking for more athletic offensive linemen and that does not fit the bill for Green. I don't mind any of those picks I'd just like a veteran center at this point but that's just me.
Click to expand...
Did you bother looking at the scouting reports I linked? Every single one of them touts his athleticism. According to PFF, he's excellent in a zbs.
 
DocBar said:
Switching to a WCO/ZBS scheme will do wonders for Green as it really fits his skill set.
Kenyon Green NFL Draft profiles | PFF
Kenyon Green Offensive Guard Texas A&M | NFL Draft Profile & Scouting Report (nfldraftbuzz.com)
WalterFootball.com: 2022 NFL Draft Scouting Report: Kenyon Green
I would prefer the Texans to draft a center and sign one in FA. They need an upgrade at RG also. O'Cyrus Torrence from Florida would be a good pick at 33 overall, I would trade trade up to the mid-50's and get Schmitz for center. Pay Tunsil and Howard, and the Texans are set with a fantastic OL.
Click to expand...
Khelar said:
I'm not sure it does fit his skillset. West coast offense usually is looking for more athletic offensive linemen and that does not fit the bill for Green. I don't mind any of those picks I'd just like a veteran center at this point but that's just me.
Click to expand...
I'm with Khelar on this one. But if Ryan's wants Schmitz/Wypler etc... I wouldn't be disappointed.

I don't think Torrance has the movement skills to play in a ZBS. Although his movement skills aren't bad for a 345 lbs man. I would like to see how well he moves at 325.

BTW, Cann isn't a bad ol. Ryans does need to add 2 guys either through the draft and fa. No more McCray playing when an IOL inevitably gets hurt.
 
DocBar said:
Did you bother looking at the scouting reports I linked? Every single one of them touts his athleticism. According to PFF, he's excellent in a zbs.
Click to expand...
Yeah I'm not sure why they say that. Looking at the combine results they don't reflect that at all. Zierlein for what it's worth does not think of him very highly in terms of athleticism it seems.

www.nfl.com

Kenyon Green Draft and Combine Prospect Profile | NFL.com

All Combine and Draft-Related Analysis, News, Video, and Biographical Information for Kenyon Green
www.nfl.com www.nfl.com
 
steelbtexan said:
I'm with Khelar on this one. But if Ryan's wants Schmitz/Wypler etc... I wouldn't be disappointed.

I don't think Torrance has the movement skills to play in a ZBS. Although his movement skills aren't bad for a 345 lbs man. I would like to see how well he moves at 325.

BTW, Cann isn't a bad ol. Ryans does need to add 2 guys either through the draft and fa. No more McCray playing when an IOL inevitably gets hurt.
Click to expand...
Cann's PFF grade last year was pretty good; at least above average.

But he had even better grades in first two years with the Jaguars, in the Zone Scheme.

A.J. Cann | Houston Texans G | NFL and PFF stats | PFF

NFL and PFF player stats for Houston Texans G A.J. Cann on Pro Football Focus.
www.pff.com www.pff.com

A.J. Cann | Houston Texans G | NFL and PFF stats | PFF

NFL and PFF player stats for Houston Texans G A.J. Cann on Pro Football Focus.
www.pff.com www.pff.com
 
Khelar said:
Yeah I'm not sure why they say that. Looking at the combine results they don't reflect that at all. Zierlein for what it's worth does not think of him very highly in terms of athleticism it seems.

www.nfl.com

Kenyon Green Draft and Combine Prospect Profile | NFL.com

All Combine and Draft-Related Analysis, News, Video, and Biographical Information for Kenyon Green
www.nfl.com www.nfl.com
Click to expand...
I don't see anything from Zierlein in that profile. Did you read it? Says he should be a good starter withing 2 years. Had a 1st round grade on him.
 
DocBar said:
I don't see anything from Zierlein in that profile. Did you read it? Says he should be a good starter withing 2 years. Had a 1st round grade on him.
Click to expand...
Gives him a 53/100 rating for athleticism. I'm not like a Green hater btw I still have hope for him especially with a better oline coach than George Warhop
 
76Texan said:
They were ranked as high as 13th by this website after the second win (over the Titans)
www.footballguys.com

Offensive Line Rankings and Notes: Week 17

Offensive line related news, injuries, and updates, prior to Week 17 of the regular season.
www.footballguys.com www.footballguys.com

Howard was injured early and played only 10% of the snaps.

SQ, Cann, Tunsil, and Heck (RT) all play 100% of the snaps.

Morrissey 69% and McCray 21% both at Center.

Looks like there were some shuffling during the game.

All snap counts taken from
www.pro-football-reference.com

Houston Texans at Tennessee Titans - December 24th, 2022 | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Houston Texans 19 at Tennessee Titans 14 on December 24th, 2022 - Full team and player stats and box score
www.pro-football-reference.com www.pro-football-reference.com

That website downgrade the line to 16th after the loss to the Jaguars.
Only 5 linemen played, each at 100%:
Tunsil, Green, SQ, Cann, Howard.

The same line up also played the entire game over the Colts (the win in the last game of the season).

The Offensive Line was likely to grade out well in that final game.

I'm sure surprised to see those rankings.

I think PFF ranked the Texans Online at 26th.

What say you?
Click to expand...
From everything I saw, I think PFF's grade is most accurate. In a nutshell, the tackles played consistently well/very well, while the interior OL was consistently bad. Green and Quessenberry were particularly and consistently bad/awful, while McCann and McCray fluctuated from ok to bad. The middle OL was blown up on a pretty consistent basis in most of the games - certainly through the first dozen or so. Talking mostly about pass protection here.
 
ben.aires.smith said:
From everything I saw, I think PFF's grade is most accurate. In a nutshell, the tackles played consistently well/very well, while the interior OL was consistently bad. Green and Quessenberry were particularly and consistently bad/awful, while McCann and McCray fluctuated from ok to bad. The middle OL was blown up on a pretty consistent basis in most of the games - certainly through the first dozen or so. Talking mostly about pass protection here.
Click to expand...
The Texans allowed the 11th most pressure as a percentage of pass attempts (22.6%).
That's not good, but still better than 10 other teams.

www.pro-football-reference.com

2022 NFL Advanced Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com

2022 NFL Advanced Stats
www.pro-football-reference.com www.pro-football-reference.com
 
ben.aires.smith said:
Sounds about right. But solidly below average. Not good when your weapons was league worst also. We need to get an alpha WR1 in the draft.
Click to expand...
We need two WRs imo & a TE if not two.

Thank God I’m not runningsht on Kirby. It would be skill players only first two days of the draft & I’d be trading into the the 2nd day more than not
 
ben.aires.smith said:
Sounds about right. But solidly below average. Not good when your weapons was league worst also. We need to get an alpha WR1 in the draft.
Click to expand...
League worse?
Exaggerated much?

Scroll down to Advance Receiving.

www.pro-football-reference.com

2022 NFL Advanced Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com

2022 NFL Advanced Stats
www.pro-football-reference.com www.pro-football-reference.com

The Texans receiving corp ranked very well to way above average in many key metrics.

Yard after catch per catch.
Break tackle and percentage.
Fewer drops.

On the other hand, when you go to Advanced Passing, the Texans QB led the league in the worst category: highest bad throw percentage.

www.pro-football-reference.com

2022 NFL Advanced Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com

2022 NFL Advanced Stats
www.pro-football-reference.com www.pro-football-reference.com
 
thunderkyss said:
We need two WRs imo & a TE if not two.

Thank God I’m not runningsht on Kirby. It would be skill players only first two days of the draft & I’d be trading into the the 2nd day more than not
Click to expand...
Yep, especially with Cooks probably being shown the door. There's absolutely no way we can hamstring the new QB the way Mills was shafted this year. You got to put your guy in position to succeed. Imagine Collins being the WR1, followed by Chris Moore or unproven John Metchie @ WR2. That's just a recipe for failure. Texans could try to get a Christian kirk-like options but that will cost. Gotta do something.
 
ben.aires.smith said:
Sounds about right. But solidly below average. Not good when your weapons was league worst also. We need to get an alpha WR1 in the draft.
Click to expand...
Just within the AFC South, the Texans receiving corp was already rated higher than those of the Dolts and the Tacks.

projects.fivethirtyeight.com

The Best NFL Receivers, According To ESPN Analytics

Receiver ratings from ESPN Analytics use player-tracking data to evaluate every route a pass catcher runs and scores his performance in three phases of the game.
projects.fivethirtyeight.com projects.fivethirtyeight.com
 
thunderkyss said:
We need two WRs imo & a TE if not two.

Thank God I’m not runningsht on Kirby. It would be skill players only first two days of the draft & I’d be trading into the the 2nd day more than not
Click to expand...

Agreed on the skill position talent needing to be upgraded.

I am leaning towards adding a veteran center (Pocic or Bradbury) and rolling with the OL as-is. Skill positions need to improve. If Metchie can not only make it back but live up to his trade up value that would be great. But I don’t see a bonafide WR1 in this draft. I see a lot of high end WR 2s.

My top option combining the WRs and TEs is actually Michael Mayer and I would take him at 12. But I am hoping they trade back from 12 for an extra day 2 pick. To me, Mayer could be George Kittle for this team and would be the top option in the passing game next season.

I like the TEs and RBs in this draft. But think the WRs are mostly similarly rated WR2 types at the top.
 
Like I’ve stated, I’d trade back to gain additional picks in RD2 and RD3. The interior of the OL was and is the weak link. I’m willing to give Tunsil and Howard the benefit of the doubt by giving them the best possible pieces to work with.

OC- John Michael-Schmitz (Minnesota)
OG- Steve Avila (TCU)
OT- Cody Mauch (North Dakota State)

These 3 guys are road graders who play with a mean streak and till the end of the whistle. Texans need this type of attitude on the OL. On a side note…..I see Mauch as a guy who could replace either Green or Howard should they falter.
 
I still see differing opinions on Howard from replacement level JAG to franchise RT.
Hope Green can live up to potential in new scheme, same for Tunsil who’s had an up and down couple of years.
A legit centre will do this team the world of good but I’m reminded of Chris Myers’s early struggles.
 
ben.aires.smith said:
From everything I saw, I think PFF's grade is most accurate. In a nutshell, the tackles played consistently well/very well, while the interior OL was consistently bad. Green and Quessenberry were particularly and consistently bad/awful, while McCann and McCray fluctuated from ok to bad. The middle OL was blown up on a pretty consistent basis in most of the games - certainly through the first dozen or so. Talking mostly about pass protection here.
Click to expand...

McCann was avg

McCray was as bad as Q/Green.
 
welsh texan said:
I still see differing opinions on Howard from replacement level JAG to franchise RT.
Hope Green can live up to potential in new scheme, same for Tunsil who’s had an up and down couple of years.
A legit centre will do this team the world of good but I’m reminded of Chris Myers’s early struggles.
Click to expand...

I’d like to see the Texans add a vet center and draft 1-2 OL to be groomed to replace Howard/Cann. I don’t want to spend big draft capital on the OL this year, I feel with a healthy Green and a quality vet at center they are good to go next season. The rookies would be having a succession plan in place the following season when Howard/Cann’s contracts are up.

If the team is extending Tunsil, they will have a rough time allocating cap space for Howard. And I don’t necessarily think he’s worth the money he’ll likely command next offseason.

If they don’t add a FA center then I think they will need to grab one day 2 (which is not my preference).
 
TheRealJoker said:
I’d like to see the Texans add a vet center and draft 1-2 OL to be groomed to replace Howard/Cann. I don’t want to spend big draft capital on the OL this year, I feel with a healthy Green and a quality vet at center they are good to go next season. The rookies would be having a succession plan in place the following season when Howard/Cann’s contracts are up.

If the team is extending Tunsil, they will have a rough time allocating cap space for Howard. And I don’t necessarily think he’s worth the money he’ll likely command next offseason.

If they don’t add a FA center then I think they will need to grab one day 2 (which is not my preference).
Click to expand...

Which veteran center is at the top of your list?

Would his current team have the cap flexibility to get him extended or a new contract?

What kind of money would this FA want in a new contract?

How likely would this top FA center be willing to sign with the Texans?

I’m just curious and look forward to your input.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
Which veteran center is at the top of your list?

Would his current team have the cap flexibility to get him extended or a new contract?

What kind of money would this FA want in a new contract?

How likely would this top FA center be willing to sign with the Texans?

I’m just curious and look forward to your input.
Click to expand...

For me, I could easily target C- Jake Brendel (49’ers).

He’s 30 years old and played CFB at UCLA. He’s a fully trained and ready to go ZBS Center. He started for the first time last season. He wasn’t drafted but signed as an UDFA with the Cowboys.

He’s obviously familiar with Slowick’s and Ryan’s WCO. That’s a plus. He’s a veteran and b/c he just had his first starting season……he’s not going to break the bank getting him signed. He doesn’t have a lot of wear and tear on his 30 year old body so he could be a safe 2-3 year contract center. I believe he’d jump at the chance to join the Texans where he’d have his best chance to remain a starting center.
 
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OptimisticTexan said:
Which veteran center is at the top of your list?

Would his current team have the cap flexibility to get him extended or a new contract?

What kind of money would this FA want in a new contract?

How likely would this top FA center be willing to sign with the Texans?

I’m just curious and look forward to your input.
Click to expand...

1) Pocic or Bradbury.

2) Not likely.

3) 6-8 million/year.

4) Likely.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
For me, I could easily target C- Jake Brendel (49’ers).

He’s 30 years old and played CFB at UCLA. He’s a fully trained and a ready to go ZBS Center. He started for the first time last season. He wasn’t drafted but signed as an UDFA with the Cowboys.

He’s obviously familiar with Slowick’s and Ryan’s WCO. That’s a plus. He’s a veteran and b/c he just had his first starting season……he’s not going to break the bank getting him signed. He doesn’t have a lot of wear and tear on his 30 year old body so he could be a safe 2-3 year contract center. I believe he’d jump at the chance to join the Texans where he’d have his best chance to remain a starting center.
Click to expand...

Brendel is an interesting choice. He was a career backup prior to last season and definitely played above his contract. Obviously fits the system. I’d put him in that tier below Pocic/Bradbury and if they can get him for that AJ Cann rate (2 years/8 million) i’d welcome his selection.
 
TheRealJoker said:
I’d like to see the Texans add a vet center and draft 1-2 OL to be groomed to replace Howard/Cann. I don’t want to spend big draft capital on the OL this year, I feel with a healthy Green and a quality vet at center they are good to go next season. The rookies would be having a succession plan in place the following season when Howard/Cann’s contracts are up.

If the team is extending Tunsil, they will have a rough time allocating cap space for Howard. And I don’t necessarily think he’s worth the money he’ll likely command next offseason.

If they don’t add a FA center then I think they will need to grab one day 2 (which is not my preference).
Click to expand...
Center is the weakest link on the line and in desperate need of an upgrade. Fix that with one of the top guys in the draft or a nice Vet and the line will be transformed.
Howard and Cann were not bad and their play will benefit from a good center. Howard you could probably retain for a team friendly contract but Cann may look for greener pastures so you could draft his eventual replacement.
Green will also benefit from having better play from Center as well and also having a year under his belt.
I look forward to see how next season turns out.
 
DocBar said:
Switching to a WCO/ZBS scheme will do wonders for Green as it really fits his skill set.
Kenyon Green NFL Draft profiles | PFF
Kenyon Green Offensive Guard Texas A&M | NFL Draft Profile & Scouting Report (nfldraftbuzz.com)
WalterFootball.com: 2022 NFL Draft Scouting Report: Kenyon Green
I would prefer the Texans to draft a center and sign one in FA. They need an upgrade at RG also. O'Cyrus Torrence from Florida would be a good pick at 33 overall, I would trade trade up to the mid-50's and get Schmitz for center. Pay Tunsil and Howard, and the Texans are set with a fantastic OL.
Click to expand...
Green is fat, weak, slow and underperformed athletically at the Combine. 4 things you don't want in a ZBS OL.
 
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Texansphan said:
Center is the weakest link on the line and in desperate need of an upgrade. Fix that with one of the top guys in the draft or a nice Vet and the line will be transformed.
Howard and Cann were not bad and their play will benefit from a good center. Howard you could probably retain for a team friendly contract but Cann may look for greener pastures so you could draft his eventual replacement.
Green will also benefit from having better play from Center as well and also having a year under his belt.
I look forward to see how next season turns out.
Click to expand...
Green will benefit from having his pec/shoulder injury healed. He will benefit from having a full offseason to learn the new system. He will also benefit from having a full offseason to build NFL strength and conditioning vs. training for the combine while battling an injury.
 
Saw a great point made in a YouTube review of the top 16 of the draft that at just 21 years of age Kenyon Green has a long way to go before he hits his peak athletic strength. He should be much stronger after a full offseason program, he performed better before the injury took its toll, too.
 
If .... Green has worked hard on his body during the off season, allowing him to improve this year, that just leaves question marks on center and right guard. This is not a good year for linemen .... that was last year. Until one comes around again, I think we should look at Garrett Bradburry or Connor McGovern for center and Dalton Risner for guard. All of whom are ZBS vets and not bank breakers.
 
Speculation.

Is there always going to be better players to chose from next year? idonno:

If you need a QB find one this year. Poll your scouts, if they can't identify one, get new scouts.

Draft two late. Hooker? Hall? Tune? Duggan? Haener? could be available late.

Take 4 to TC. Take a look. Minchew(?) , Mills and two draftees in camp.

Worked well for the Oilers, drafted two in 1971. ( were early picks). Traded one of them later.

Tell me it's stupid. My ego can take it. :D Desperate times call for desperate measures. :foottap:

:coffee:
 
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justmy2cents said:
If .... Green has worked hard on his body during the off season, allowing him to improve this year, that just leaves question marks on center and right guard. This is not a good year for linemen .... that was last year. Until one comes around again, I think we should look at Garrett Bradburry or Connor McGovern for center and Dalton Risner for guard. All of whom are ZBS vets and not bank breakers.
Click to expand...
Cann is a serviceable RG.

I dont think everybody realizes how bad Q was last yr, coupled with Green playing with one arm and you see what we saw last yr.

Give me Bradbury and draft a C that can also play OG. Depending on how the draft falls I would draft an IOL at 4-103.
 
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