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Texans Offensive Line

steelbtexan said:
I just used Steinkuhler as an example, I guess I should have used Winston. Although Winston never got paid like Howard's getting paid. Winston was clearly the more reliable and better player.
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[as a side thought] Every time I think about Winston, I recall the LT-that-never-was thanks to Ron Dayne diving at the back side of his knee: Charles Spencer. Spencer had long arms and an enormous punch, that locked opposing DEs out as soon as he made contact. I still remember when he went against Hall of Fame Dwight Freeney in his rookie season and held his own. Unfortunately, after years of trying he never recovered from that hit.

In the Texans' greatest draft that ever was (too early for 2023,) Kubiak obtained DE Mario Williams, MLB DeMeco Ryans, RT Eric Winston, TE Owen Daniels, and (just for the laughs) WR David Anderson. LT Charles Spencer never gets mentioned.
[/side thought]
 
Spencer was on his way to being a beast. I think his career got shortcutted so early in his career that people don't really count it...fair enough. I know it wasn't on purpose, but I'm leaving Ron Dayne out of my will for a reason!
 
Is our OL set? Only 9 or 10 will make the 53. So, what we currently have...
LT.....Tunsil
LG....Green and Green
C......Scruggs and Patterson
RG....Mason and Broeker
RT.....Howard and Heck and Sharpe

That's 10, with Howard a question mark. Both Heck and Sharpe could swing to LT

Kilian Zierer, if he shows promise this spring, would go to the PS. Sharpe is the weakest of these and Zierer could beat him out.

I don't see the Texans picking an offensive lineman on day 2, but we'll probably pick one on day 3 in the 6th or 7th rounds. Unless Howard is a no go, anyone we pick will likely go to the PS.

Broeker might also be a question mark. But the team carried him all last year and he now has a year's experience behind Mason. This gives him an edge over any late round pick.

Finally, I think Heck will prove to be at least as good as Fant last year. And likely better. If Howard can't go, Heck will be our starter at RT.
 
Number19 said:
Finally, I think Heck will prove to be at least as good as Fant last year. And likely better. If Howard can't go, Heck will be our starter at RT.
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What gives you optimism about Heck? Have you seen something he hasn't shown in the games so far?
 
JB said:
What gives you optimism about Heck? Have you seen something he hasn't shown in the games so far?
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No reason some would consider valid.

I'd look at Heck's improvement from the 2021 season to the 2022 season. His pass blocking grade improved from 66.5 to 74.2. His run blocking needs improvement, but increased slightly from 41.1 to 42.8. Coming back late last season from injury, in limited snaps, his run blocking improved to 56.3.

Fant, last season, graded 68.4 for pass blocking, with a run blocking grade of 51.9.

So, yes, I'm expecting a breakout year from Heck.
 
Number19 said:
So, yes, I'm expecting a breakout year from Heck.
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JB said:
What gives you optimism about Heck? Have you seen something he hasn't shown in the games so far?
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I think it's clear from Hannah on down that 2024 is a Super Bowl run. And counting on Andy Heck being anything other than Andy Heck is not part of a Super Bowl plan. I want to to see a Day 2 pick and a vet at OT. That list from Number 19 is frightening. We all know Howard could not dress for a game at the moment. We're clueless to when he will. Heck has never been trustworthy. David Sharpe has started 6 games since entering the league in 2017. Kilian Zierer? Never played in a real NFL game. Did he play in the preseason? Can't remember him.

The Texans have a top LT. For sure. But he's had his bouts with injuries. And who's backing him up? The Texans are a play away from Andy Heck and a combination of Sharpe & Zierer protecting CJ Stroud? That is totally insane.
 
Lucky said:
I think it's clear from Hannah on down that 2024 is a Super Bowl run. And counting on Andy Heck being anything other than Andy Heck is not part of a Super Bowl plan. I want to to see a Day 2 pick and a vet at OT. That list from Number 19 is frightening. We all know Howard could not dress for a game at the moment. We're clueless to when he will. Heck has never been trustworthy. David Sharpe has started 6 games since entering the league in 2017. Kilian Zierer? Never played in a real NFL game. Did he play in the preseason? Can't remember him.

The Texans have a top LT. For sure. But he's had his bouts with injuries. And who's backing him up? The Texans are a play away from Andy Heck and a combination of Sharpe & Zierer protecting CJ Stroud? That is totally insane.
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So, you are expecting Caserio to make a move at RT?
 
Texansphan said:
I know Ryans wants versatile players but he has enough of those on the OL already so I expect him (and Nick) to get a RT.
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Jones is a RT, playing that position in 2019, 2020, 2022 and 2023. 2021 he did play LT and except for his freshman year, it was his worst seasonal performance. He bounced back from 2021 with strong performance at RT in 2022 and 2023.
 
Number19 said:
Jones is a RT, playing that position in 2019, 2020, 2022 and 2023. 2021 he did play LT and except for his freshman year, it was his worst seasonal performance. He bounced back from 2021 with strong performance at RT in 2022 and 2023.
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I know Howard is a good RT when healthy - do they know something they aren't declaring - I e., Howard may be late returning? Or be a perpetual injury candidate?
 
Number19 said:
No reason some would consider valid.

I'd look at Heck's improvement from the 2021 season to the 2022 season. His pass blocking grade improved from 66.5 to 74.2. His run blocking needs improvement, but increased slightly from 41.1 to 42.8. Coming back late last season from injury, in limited snaps, his run blocking improved to 56.3.

Fant, last season, graded 68.4 for pass blocking, with a run blocking grade of 51.9.

So, yes, I'm expecting a breakout year from Heck.
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You put way too much into some unknowns grading system... watch the games instead!
 
Texansphan said:
I know Howard is a good RT when healthy - do they know something they aren't declaring - I e., Howard may be late returning? Or be a perpetual injury candidate?
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These are the questions everyone's asking. With no answers. All we have is what CnnnD has contributed. My own estimated timeline, based on info I've googled, may have him returning to play by training camp. This is very optimistic. And I believe CnnnD is still saying it's 50-50.

I believe we'll draft a RT, but will wait until training to see how things shake out. Caserio will then work a trade if necessary.
 
There will be somewhere between 7-10 OTs selected in the 1st round. A heck of a class. Some of those players will go to teams with glaring holes at OT. Some will go to teams that are ready to kick the guy they have to the curb, because of performance and/or salary. So there will be trade options for vet OTs during the draft. No all pros, but guys that can play if needed.
 
Lucky said:
There will be somewhere between 7-10 OTs selected in the 1st round. A heck of a class. Some of those players will go to teams with glaring holes at OT. Some will go to teams that are ready to kick the guy they have to the curb, because of performance and/or salary. So there will be trade options for vet OTs during the draft. No all pros, but guys that can play if needed.
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If they hadn't gotten Diggs, I was expecting this type of deal at WR.
 
Lucky said:
There will be somewhere between 7-10 OTs selected in the 1st round. A heck of a class. Some of those players will go to teams with glaring holes at OT. Some will go to teams that are ready to kick the guy they have to the curb, because of performance and/or salary. So there will be trade options for vet OTs during the draft. No all pros, but guys that can play if needed.
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I think Texans come away with an OT day 2. The prospects they have brought in mostly are projected to go in that range.

Someone who can beat out Heck for swing OT and take over for Howard when it’s time to cut that contract. Now that they’ve got Diggs, I think if they do target WR it’s day 3. Which gives them a great opportunity to address the OL and get one of these OTs.
 
TheRealJoker said:
I think Texans come away with an OT day 2. The prospects they have brought in mostly are projected to go in that range.

Someone who can beat out Heck for swing OT and take over for Howard when it’s time to cut that contract. Now that they’ve got Diggs, I think if they do target WR it’s day 3. Which gives them a great opportunity to address the OL and get one of these OTs.
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I hope you're right, but I'd put OG up there as well until we find a good LG. Hopefully after the decimation of the OL at the beginning of last year Caserio is on board. I'd like to see someone who can run block as well as pass block so we can see a big lift in our running game. I do expect to see some normal progression from the new guys, but doubling down just leads to better depth.

I'm hoping their draft board has OL/DL/and CB tied for team needs, if someone slips down to us (or Caserio trades a little bit to find his guy.)
 
I'm comfortable with the QB, receivers, RBs (though we do need another) and TE. We should use a high round pick to get an offensive lineman of some sort. We've upgraded the D-line through FA, so I'm good with that.

When it's time for Tricky Nick to pick, he usually surprises me. Lately it's been nice surprises, I hope that continues.
 
With the way Texans have been shoring up positions with known quality players, I am surprised they haven't addressed either LG or RT.
They must be pretty confident and happy with what they are seeing right now with our Oline.
This is one reason, assuming they make no further FA moves for the Oline, I think they make a surprise high pick at either one or even both of those positions in the draft or move up at some point in the 3rd round.
It would be a shame if after all these improvements on the O the Oline is once again a distinct weakness on this team.
It would waste all those modifications and the way Nick has been operating, I can't see him taking that risk.
Texans are not done with the Oline yet.
Bank it.
 
Texansphan said:
With the way Texans have been shoring up positions with known quality players, I am surprised they haven't addressed either LG or RT.
They must be pretty confident and happy with what they are seeing right now with our Oline.
This is one reason, assuming they make no further FA moves for the Oline, I think they make a surprise high pick at either one or even both of those positions in the draft or move up at some point in the 3rd round.
It would be a shame if after all these improvements on the O the Oline is once again a distinct weakness on this team.
It would waste all those modifications and the way Nick has been operating, I can't see him taking that risk.
Texans are not done with the Oline yet.
Bank it.
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We're sitting OK at LG. We have the two Greens who'll be competing for the starting role. In an emergency, Scruggs could move over there.

RT is still the question mark. Howard will likely not be cleared to play until training camp, and that is optimistic. This spring it looks like Heck as the starter with Sharpe in the backup role. Zierer may be in the mix.

Almost certainly you would expect a draft pick in the 3rd or 4th rounds. That deep into the draft it's hard to predict who might be there. But Roger Rosengarten, Christian Jones, Kingsley Saumaala, Kiran Amegadjie and Blake Fisher are all possibilities. The bolded have had visits with the Texans.
 
Number19 said:
We're sitting OK at LG. We have the two Greens who'll be competing for the starting role. In an emergency, Scruggs could move over there.

RT is still the question mark. Howard will likely not be cleared to play until training camp, and that is optimistic. This spring it looks like Heck as the starter with Sharpe in the backup role. Zierer may be in the mix.

Almost certainly you would expect a draft pick in the 3rd or 4th rounds. That deep into the draft it's hard to predict who might be there. But Roger Rosengarten, Christian Jones, Kingsley Saumaala, Kiran Amegadjie and Blake Fisher are all possibilities. The bolded have had visits with the Texans.
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Amegadjie has arms that reach from Houston to Galveston at 36 and 1/4 in. 94 pass block 80 run on this pass crazy team 😄.
I think he can translate to right tackle and definitely can play left and left guard.
 
Texansphan said:
With the way Texans have been shoring up positions with known quality players, I am surprised they haven't addressed either LG or RT.
They must be pretty confident and happy with what they are seeing right now with our Oline.
This is one reason, assuming they make no further FA moves for the Oline, I think they make a surprise high pick at either one or even both of those positions in the draft or move up at some point in the 3rd round.
It would be a shame if after all these improvements on the O the Oline is once again a distinct weakness on this team.
It would waste all those modifications and the way Nick has been operating, I can't see him taking that risk.
Texans are not done with the Oline yet.
Bank it.
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Team has brought several OL in projected go round 2-4. Pretty safe bet. Question is, do they double dip and solidify the depth of the OL with rookie contract players?
 
badboy said:
Amegadjie has arms that reach from Houston to Galveston at 36 and 1/4 in. 94 pass block 80 run on this pass crazy team 😄.
I think he can translate to right tackle and definitely can play left and left guard.
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But he had torn quad surgery in October. Return to sport activity is 6-8 months. Light running at 4 months. He should be able to participate in OTAs and ready to go by training camp.

But will he recover to 100% pre-injury?
 
In case I haven't mentioned these all together, I keep coming back to Christian Mahogony LG -6'3" 317#, Christian Haynes RG - 6'3" 317#, Christian Jones RT - 6'5" - 305#- Lost down for faster 40 ! It's not the names, I swear ! They play really well ! I do watch Offensive Linemen ... if you're trying acquire OL Talent .... but not first rounders, these are great targets !
 
I think the Texans should straight-up target (2) OT's in this draft b/c Howard is shaky at best, and the depth can't even sniff shaky at this point.
 
justmy2cents said:
In case I haven't mentioned these all together, I keep coming back to Christian Mahogony LG -6'3" 317#, Christian Haynes RG - 6'3" 317#, Christian Jones RT - 6'5" - 305#- Lost down for faster 40 ! It's not the names, I swear ! They play really well ! I do watch Offensive Linemen ... if you're trying acquire OL Talent .... but not first rounders, these are great targets !
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On defense, DT Khristian Boyd could join Christian Harris.
 
justmy2cents said:
In case I haven't mentioned these all together, I keep coming back to Christian Mahogony LG -6'3" 317#, Christian Haynes RG - 6'3" 317#, Christian Jones RT - 6'5" - 305#- Lost down for faster 40 ! It's not the names, I swear ! They play really well ! I do watch Offensive Linemen ... if you're trying acquire OL Talent .... but not first rounders, these are great targets !
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Amegadjie round 3 plus
Javon Foster round 4 gives outstanding depth and could possibly start as did Patterson. Allows us to use 42 & 59 for studs.

I'm also seeing possibility of McKinstry falling to 59; not based on healing or talent but other team needs.

Just one example: TB could take him 26 but also could select Chop. Teams in between could do same.

42 Xavier Legette
59 Kool-Aid
86 Amegadjie
123 Javon Foster
127 RB Guerendo

Doesn't address corner or DT but I still think Casio will address that before TC or during.
 
If Howard isn't up to playing this year, someone might want to tell DeMeco.....

“Our offensive line is crucial for our success, and having Tytus and Kenyon back and fit will significantly strengthen our capabilities,” Ryans expressed. “Their return is highly anticipated, and I’m eager to see them back in action, showcasing their potential.”
 
Porky said:
If Howard isn't up to playing this year, someone might want to tell DeMeco.....
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Again, Ryans is not a doctor (though Dr. DeMeco has a nice ring to it). Do you remember last year in camp, when Kenyon Green played all the way until the last preseason game, then the Texans decided he couldn't go in 2023? I would like to think they have learned from that lesson this season. I know you're digging the internets for a gotcha quote. Instead, look at the OTs the Texans brought in for visits (thanks to @TexansFan15 for keeping track).

TexansFan15 said:
2024 Prospect Visits



OT Patrick Paul Houston (SB, COM)
OT Kiran Amegadjie Yale (COM)
OT Travis Glover Georgia St (T30)
OT Christian Jones Texas (PD, T30, local PD)
OT Kingsley Suamataia BYU (T30)
OT Matt Gonclaves Pitt (T30)
OT Christian Duffie KSU (local PD)
OT Roger Rosengarten UW (T30)
OT Jordan Morgan Arizona (PW)


CGS- College Gridiron Showcase
Hula- Hula Bowl
EW- East West Shrine Bowl
SB- Senior Bowl
COM- Combine
T30- Top 30 Visit
PD- Pro Day
Local PD- local pro day
ZOOM- Zoom
PW- private workout
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They probably will take a tackle in the mid-late rounds for depth. I've got them taking a tackle around round 4 or 5 (I think Nick will end up with a 5th via trade).

But the panic around here doesn't seem to have permeated the Texans boardroom. I'm pretty sure Dr. DeMeco and Chef Nick have more info than we do, and one thing I like about DeMeco is he's pretty plain-spoken. Almost too much at times. He's not like Chef Nick, a master of the word salad. If Demeco says he expects them back in action, that's his expectation. I take him at his word.

PS - yes I realize the expectation could be wrong, and if that happens, I'm sure they will come up with a solution just as they did last year, but this idea that they are drafting a tackle in round 2 is very unlikely imho.
 
Porky said:
They probably will take a tackle in the mid-late rounds for depth. I've got them taking a tackle around round 4 or 5 (I think Nick will end up with a 5th via trade).
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The Texans have looked at OTs that are projected to go in that area.
Porky said:
I'm pretty sure Dr. DeMeco and Chef Nick have more info than we do
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Yes, that's a given. But let me ask you, did Caserio or Ryans tell us that they were taking Stroud and Anderson in back to back picks? Maybe they can keep a secret? But they've also looked hard at five OTs projected in the 2nd Round (some in the late 1st). So, just giving you a heads up.
 
Lucky said:
Again, Ryans is not a doctor (though Dr. DeMeco has a nice ring to it). Do you remember last year in camp, when Kenyon Green played all the way until the last preseason game, then the Texans decided he couldn't go in 2023? I would like to think they have learned from that lesson this season. I know you're digging the internets for a gotcha quote. Instead, look at the OTs the Texans brought in for visits (thanks to @TexansFan15 for keeping track).
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Is there a difference between a private workout and let’s say… a top 30 visit and a local pro day? I can figure out the differences with the other types of days but not so much those.
 
Lucky said:
The Texans have looked at OTs that are projected to go in that area.

Yes, that's a given. But let me ask you, did Caserio or Ryans tell us that they were taking Stroud and Anderson in back to back picks? Maybe they can keep a secret? But they've also looked hard at five OTs projected in the 2nd Round (some in the late 1st). So, just giving you a heads up.
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Due Diligence, sir. I will say this: If the Texans take a tackle in the second round, what Dr. DeMeco said is just smoke-blowing, and they really do have major concerns about Howard.

My point is that it's out of character for DeMeco. It's been very refreshing to have a HC who says what he means, and means what he says and so I'm taking him at his word as what they expect at OT. And what they expect will drive their draft selections. If something happens that is NOT expected, they will have a contingency plan in place.
 
NitroGSXR said:
Is there a difference between a private workout and let’s say… a top 30 visit and a local pro day? I can figure out the differences with the other types of days but not so much those.
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I’m not sure. I guess a private workout would equivalent to a pro day. I just wasn’t sure.
 
Porky said:
Due Diligence, sir. I will say this: If the Texans take a tackle in the second round, what Dr. DeMeco said is just smoke-blowing, and they really do have major concerns about Howard.

My point is that it's out of character for DeMeco. It's been very refreshing to have a HC who says what he means, and means what he says and so I'm taking him at his word as what they expect at OT. And what they expect will drive their draft selections. If something happens that is NOT expected, they will have a contingency plan in place.
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I don't know if that situation fully makes what DeMeco said as 'smoke-blowing', particularly because of the state of the Texans Oline in the beginning of the season last year. Having a high quality OT that starts as a backup in his first-year and provides depth isn't unheard of in the 2nd round. Particularly if he's if graded higher than the remaining players.
 
BullRushTX said:
I really hope he can come back this season at full strength. A full strength combo of Tunsil and Howard at the tackle spots would be ideal. I'd be concerned to see them starting the season with Heck or Fisher at RT.

As for the contract, he was extended in July of 2023 and got the knee injury in week 12 of the season.
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With the recent expectations, or hope, Howard would be ready for the 2024 season, I figured to revisit the issue, disregarding what CnD has provided.

One thing I found is that Howard had surgery in 2019 to repair damage to the meniscus in the right knee. His current injury is to his left knee.

Howard had been "dealing with" injury in his knee for the previous "few" games, until he had to leave the game on the 26th.

The injury has been described as to his patellar tendon, and had worsened to the point where there was a "hole" between the knee and the tendon.

Googling recovery, I find return to normal activities is approximately 4 months and return to amateur sport activities 6 months. Full recovery 6 months to a year.

Recovery to competitive sports taking a year or longer to return to preinjury level of performance, with long term weakness, even with sucessful repair, a possibility.

The way I interpret all this is that Howard will likely be making an attempt to return to action, maybe as soon as training camp. But the prognosis for a sucessful return is in doubt.

The one thing I can't find is a description of exactly what Howard's surgery involved and how this correlates to the various generalized information you find googling.
 
Porky said:
If Howard isn't up to playing this year, someone might want to tell DeMeco.....

“Our offensive line is crucial for our success, and having Tytus and Kenyon back and fit will significantly strengthen our capabilities,” Ryans expressed. “Their return is highly anticipated, and I’m eager to see them back in action, showcasing their potential.”
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They really seem to scoff at the thought of placing undue concern on a healthy and talented line, and what the draft failed to yield. Caserio referred to Howard as great - after all, he was taken in the first round. That scares me !
 
badboy said:
torotimes.com

The Houston Texans Offensive Line is one of the best in the league

The Houston Texans saw real production from their offensive line last year, only allowing CJ Stroud to get sacked 38 times in 15 games.
torotimes.com torotimes.com
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Anyone who suggests Tytus Howard will "likely" move inside to guard, permanently, is not someone I listen to. And here's another one who gives no consideration to Howard's injury. And is run blocking and the run game not part of the offense and is not part of what the OL does?
 
Number19 said:
Anyone who suggests Tytus Howard will "likely" move inside to guard, permanently, is not someone I listen to. And here's another one who gives no consideration to Howard's injury. And is run blocking and the run game not part of the offense and is not part of what the OL does?
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Personally, I thought it was an asinine article but most people know how I feel about Howard.

Torotimes.com is a site I rarely quote, unless to show the incompetence. More of a Homer rag.
 
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