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Texans / Lamar Jackson SI article

Mr teX said:
a small contract and underperformance is detrimental to a team if the underperformance is in a critical area of the team…hence TEAM. James Bradbury’s contract was nothing in the grand scheme of the team’s salary cap…but he didn’t play well in the SB & made the biggest mistake in the game that cost his team a SB.
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I'd say qb is a critical part of the team on every offensive snap. I'd also say any guaranteed 100 million plus contract is critical to the health of every team.
 
Maybe there’s a valid explanation for this, but i’ve never understood why teams don’t front load these contracts to where the cap hit gets smaller as you get deeper into the contract. It would probably keep teams together longer and keep windows open longer.

teams always wind up restructuring anyway..why kick the can down the road…
 
What's opinion on the number of teams that could possibly be in the market for Jackson?

Teams that have the need, cap space, and are in a position to take a shot in him, unlike the Texans.

Less than 10 I'd guess?
 
michaelm said:
What's opinion on the number of teams that could possibly be in the market for Jackson?

Teams that have the need, cap space, and are in a position to take a shot in him, unlike the Texans.

Less than 10 I'd guess?
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Add in the cash reserves to do the deal, I'm not sure all have the cash flow to deposit 250 million into escrow
 
The1ApplePie said:
Lamar is the best QB to hit the market after Watson, this is the owners colluding in a last-ditch effort to get the QB pay under control.
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We're going to have to define "colluding" and provide evidence to the fact.

i.e. colluding is a legal term. In this case you would have to provide evidence of a secret agreement.

If they are all acting on their individual opinion of "market value" value it's not collusion, technically.

It's supply vs demand. There could be one can of SPAM left in a 100 mile radius but it will stay on the shelf for decades (& still be "good") if the buyer thinks it is over priced. It doesn't matter if the 2nd to the last can sold for $500. That doesn't mean you're going to find an idiot to give you $450 for the last can.
 
Texansphan said:
And they can refuse to buy at that price.
When you go into a car dealership to buy a new car, do you just agree with and sign everything they throw at you without question?
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Good analogy. Just because the last guy paid sticker plus doesn't mean I'm going to.
 
Double Barrel said:
This is what I find hilarious. Folks assume "collusion" with zero evidence because there's not another owner as dumb as the Haslams to hand out a ludicrous deal to a player
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thunderkyss said:
Or they are suggesting collusion because no one has even entered into negotiations with him.
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Corrosion said:
Each team is doing what is in their best interest. They all have the same best interest ...
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For the record, I wasn't saying that it is collusion. I was offering a reason some "assume" it's collusion.
 
Corrosion said:
If recent results are to be taken into account .... No one should be lining up to trade multiple #1's and then take on a large cap hit for a QB.

The last two teams who did so didn't even finish .500 much less make the playoffs.
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This is the base line truth. The Chiefs did it before and after they gave Mahomes his contract. Since his contract, he's the only QB to shine after the deal. Watson has fallen on his face along with the Browns. If Watson returns to form after his first full off-season in two years, the Browns just might have a pretty nice season. A SB season? I doubt it. Outside of Brady, Mahomes is the benchmark and any QB hoping for stupid money had better be racking up some winning seasons and playoff runs before they expect a big pay out. Owners don't have to collude to make this assessment, they just have to take their stupid hats off when making these decisions.
 
Mr teX said:
i agree…if Ridder comes out stinking it up, there will be unrest with the fan base know Lamar is out there to be had.
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I don't think they will wait until that honestly. I think it's going to be post draft for next year's pick. Jackson in the NFC south for the next 3 yrs and those 1st rd picks will be in the late teens because they will win that division a couple of times.
 
JB said:
Add in the cash reserves to do the deal, I'm not sure all have the cash flow to deposit 250 million into escrow
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Noone or at least HE himself has said that he’s looking for over 230 million guaranteed...that’s a media driven narrative based on the premise that he’s looking to “beat” the DW4 deal, b/c that’s how these guys have traditionally negotiated contracts in the past. I honestly think Lamar isn’t really looking at DW4’s contract total amount..he’s only looking at the fully guaranteed aspect of it.. in that regard, he may just be asking for or willing to settle for 200-210 million guaranteed over 4-5 years…that breaks out to around 42 mil a season…which is a relative steal for a player like him considering Daniel frickin’ jones just got a contract making 40 mil per over 4. You factor in that Wilson just got 165 million guaranteed…its not that far off from what Lamar wants. From what I understand, the Ravens don’t want to give him more than 3 fully guaranteed unless its on a normal type contract..which he has turned down.

There’s 1 owner who MIGHT have that money in escrow problem. The rest? Not so much. Cash flow is honestly the least of all of these guys’ issue. 200 million in escrow is nothing to guys worth billions. They are already pretty much do that now with qb’s as noted above with Russell Wilson.
 
Mr teX said:
Noone or at least HE himself has said that he’s looking for over 230 million guaranteed...that’s a media driven narrative based on the premise that he’s looking to “beat” the DW4 deal, b/c that’s how these guys have traditionally negotiated contracts in the past. I honestly think Lamar isn’t really looking at DW4’s contract total amount..he’s only looking at the fully guaranteed aspect of it.. in that regard, he may just be asking for or willing to settle for 200-210 million guaranteed over 4-5 years…that breaks out to around 42 mil a season…which is a relative steal for a player like him considering Daniel frickin’ jones just got a contract making 40 mil per over 4. You factor in that Wilson just got 165 million guaranteed…its not that far off from what Lamar wants. From what I understand, the Ravens don’t want to give him more than 3 fully guaranteed unless its on a normal type contract..which he has turned down.

There’s 1 owner who MIGHT have that money in escrow problem. The rest? Not so much. Cash flow is honestly the least of all of these guys’ issue. 200 million in escrow is nothing to guys worth billions. They are already pretty much do that now with qb’s as noted above with Russell Wilson.
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Admitting that I heard this on the early morning ESPN national show driving in super early to work yesterday, so take it with a grain of salt.

The premise was that Jackson isn't asking for a contract that is fully guaranteed. He is asking for a contract that has more guaranteed money than Watson got.

So it could be something like a 6-year $300 million contract with at least $250 million guaranteed.

The point being is that he wants more guaranteed money than the most guaranteed money contract out there.

Feels a bit of a semantics game, but there is a difference.
 
Mr teX said:
in that regard, he may just be asking for or willing to settle for 200-210 million guaranteed over 4-5 years…that breaks out to around 42 mil a season…which is a relative steal for a player like him considering Daniel frickin’ jones just got a contract making 40 mil per over 4.
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What has Jackson done that makes you love him so much? You realize his best year he had less than 3200 yards passing? Daniel freakin Jones had more last year. The last 2 years Jackson has played 12 games each and had a total of 5000 yards. 2021 -16 td's 13 ints and last year threw for only 2200 yards. Why should he deserve a mega contract from any team other than the Ravens who have built for him?
 
sandman said:
That MVP season was four years ago. In the following three seasons he has been good but not amazing. 11 missed games. Missed playoffs last two seasons. Averaging 202 passing yards a game. 29 INTs in 39 games. QBR below 60.

Is he worth two first round draft picks in a trade? Probably. Is he worth a $240 million fully guaranteed project? Maybe if I squint. Is he worth both? Absolutely and completely hell no.
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This is where I'm at.
Might give you the draft picks.
might give Lamar the cash.

But you ain't getting both from me.
I also feel in order to preserve his body, he is going to increasingly look to be a pocket passer. do you trust him for that 4 years from now.
 
leebigeztx said:
I don't think they will wait until that honestly. I think it's going to be post draft for next year's pick. Jackson in the NFC south for the next 3 yrs and those 1st rd picks will be in the late teens because they will win that division a couple of times.
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I cannot see any team giving up the multiple #1's for Jackson, I think the team he ends up on and the Ravens reach some kind of "other agreement".

Also don't see more than 3 years guaranteed no matter where he lands or how long the contract actually is. It just isn't smart to tie the fortunes of your entire franchise to a guy who may or may not perform at the same level for whatever reason with no way out when you don't have to.
You plan the divorce before the wedding .... and that's what the triggers on these contracts are. Nothing nefarious or illegal about it. It's good business sense.
 
JB said:
What has Jackson done that makes you love him so much? You realize his best year he had less than 3200 yards passing? Daniel freakin Jones had more last year. The last 2 years Jackson has played 12 games each and had a total of 5000 yards. 2021 -16 td's 13 ints and last year threw for only 2200 yards. Why should he deserve a mega contract from any team other than the Ravens who have built for him?
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You gonna just ignore those rushing numbers huh?
 
We will find out once teams start getting desperate. Easy for them to stand on their principles now..at a time when hope is the highest its ever gonna be for your team. Once the season starts and you start seeing what you ACTUALLY have at the qb position and what you’re paying those guys, more teams will come to the table.

If what Sandman posted is correct, it will almost certainly be a different type of deal, but i’d bet it’ll be alot more guaranteed money than people think he should get now. Let the Ravens continue with the Tyler Huntley show…Pittsburgh and Kenny Pickett struggle to score…
 
leebigeztx said:
I think after the draft, there will be movement on LJ. If I were advising him, I would take a 3 year fully guaranteed contract at about 45m. That would give him and the team flexibility. There have been so called conversations about the Colts which is a no brainer for him and Ballard. I haven't spoken to Ballard in a few months and I don't want to bother him, but I know a little about hiw that dude thinks. For the 1st time, he's on the hot seat. He can save his job and secure his future with LJ. They already have a head coach who can function with a guy like LJ and they have Pierce and Pittman outside along with the elite rb and a decent oline. They would create problems for everyone. They would have to sign a a good backup because Jackson will miss a couple of games. I'd rather have LJ than Levis or Richardson. Has Brissett signed with anyone yet or resigned with Cleveland yet. Dorian Thompson or even Hooker later inthe draft would be good backups to Jackson style wise.
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Jackson could get a contract offer today from multiple teams if he was willing to take 3 years 120-135 fully guaranteed
 
Mr teX said:
We will find out once teams start getting desperate. Easy for them to stand on their principles now..at a time when hope is the highest its ever gonna be for your team. Once the season starts and you start seeing what you ACTUALLY have at the qb position and what you’re paying those guys, more teams will come to the table.

If what Sandman posted is correct, it will almost certainly be a different type of deal, but i’d bet it’ll be alot more guaranteed money than people think he should get now. Let the Ravens continue with the Tyler Huntley show…Pittsburgh and Kenny Pickett struggle to score…
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I get that he has requested a trade, but his franchise tag this season is a guaranteed $32 million. For someone who is asking for a lot of guaranteed money, that is a decent size chunk to walk away from and not play out a prove it year to justify what he is asking for next offseason. And by prove it year, I just mean that he has missed 5 games each of the last two seasons. A fully healthy year of performance helps his position tremendously.

I won't come anywhere close to making $32 million in my lifetime, and he sees it as an insult. Professional entertainers live in a different world than the rest of us!
 
Xopher said:
Jackson could get a contract offer today from multiple teams if he was willing to take 3 years 120-135 fully guaranteed
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We could argue for pages about who has the correct market value on his talent, him or the owners. But you are correct in that there would be multiple teams coming to the table if it wasn't about the alleged $250 million in guaranteed money.
 
Mr teX said:
Maybe there’s a valid explanation for this, but i’ve never understood why teams don’t front load these contracts to where the cap hit gets smaller as you get deeper into the contract. It would probably keep teams together longer and keep windows open longer.

teams always wind up restructuring anyway..why kick the can down the road…
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They do. Look at Mahomes contract. All the guaranteed money is in the first 6 years. He basically has a 4 year 140 million dollar contract where the cap hit becomes acceptable to cut or trade him which is 4.8 million in year 5 and 2.4 in year 6. 7-10 0 cap hit and no guaranteed money. To get to a 0 cap hit the Chiefs will have paid him 6 years and 250 millionish dollars. But either way it is a minimum 4 year 140 million gauranteed due to the cap hit on those first 4 years
 
Mr teX said:
Noone or at least HE himself has said that he’s looking for over 230 million guaranteed...that’s a media driven narrative based on the premise that he’s looking to “beat” the DW4 deal, b/c that’s how these guys have traditionally negotiated contracts in the past. I honestly think Lamar isn’t really looking at DW4’s contract total amount..he’s only looking at the fully guaranteed aspect of it.. in that regard, he may just be asking for or willing to settle for 200-210 million guaranteed over 4-5 years…that breaks out to around 42 mil a season…which is a relative steal for a player like him considering Daniel frickin’ jones just got a contract making 40 mil per over 4. You factor in that Wilson just got 165 million guaranteed…its not that far off from what Lamar wants. From what I understand, the Ravens don’t want to give him more than 3 fully guaranteed unless its on a normal type contract..which he has turned down.

There’s 1 owner who MIGHT have that money in escrow problem. The rest? Not so much. Cash flow is honestly the least of all of these guys’ issue. 200 million in escrow is nothing to guys worth billions. They are already pretty much do that now with qb’s as noted above with Russell Wilson.
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You are missing all kinds of stuff. Jones is getting 92 million gauranteed. The Giants can get out after 2 years with an 18 million dollar cap hit. After 3 years 9 million dollars. If someone signs Jackson to a 210 million gauranteed contract they have no escape if Jackson gets hurt or plays horribly in a new system
 
sandman said:
I get that he has requested a trade, but his franchise tag this season is a guaranteed $32 million. For someone who is asking for a lot of guaranteed money, that is a decent size chunk to walk away from and not play out a prove it year to justify what he is asking for next offseason. And by prove it year, I just mean that he has missed 5 games each of the last two seasons. A fully healthy year of performance helps his position tremendously.

I won't come anywhere close to making $32 million in my lifetime, and he sees it as an insult. Professional entertainers live in a different world than the rest of us!
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no question he at minimum has to sign the tag and play under it for at least half as season this year.…if he sits the year doesnt toll for him. they have him boxed in a corner…but at sone point the Ravens are gonna have to do something if they’re trying to maximize his return. The blood is already bad between both parties so i don’t see them hitting him with the franchise tag 2 years in a row.

Ravens have has several years to get this done before the watson contract was signed and they’ve failed.
 
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Xopher said:
You are missing all kinds of stuff. Jones is getting 92 million gauranteed. The Giants can get out after 2 years with an 18 million dollar cap hit. After 3 years 9 million dollars. If someone signs Jackson to a 210 million gauranteed contract they have no escape if Jackson gets hurt or plays horribly in a new system
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Im not missing a damn thing. Jones has been trash for the entirety of his career until last year where he was just decent….and he was able to pull 40 per from the giants. If he reverts back to garbage next year, guess what, that 92 million ain’t going nowhere and it’s still hampering them for more than a few seasons going forward. Even if he plays to the same level he played last year…is he really worth 40 per? The Giants were bidding against themselves for a middling qb at best…but yet somehow y’all wanna make the distinction that Haslam was the “sucker”.

The fact that they can get out of the contract after 3 years only wipes out a portion of his overall deal…..the SMALLER non-guaranteed portion.
 
Mr teX said:
no question he at minimum has to sign the tag and play under it for at least half as season this year.…if he sits the year doesnt toll for him. they have him boxed in a corner…but at sone point the Ravens are gonna have to do something if they’re trying to maximize his return. The blood is already bad between both parties so i don’t see them hitting him with the franchise tag 2 years in a row.
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He will play this next season, if for any other reason than to toll the year and improve his negotiating position. IMO, he won't be a Raven after this coming season.
 
I wouldn’t even give up two first rounders for him, much less all that guaranteed dough. If an owner is that stupid they deserve what will happen. I hope it’s the Colts. Please let this idiot player mess up the Colts for the next few years. That would be awesome.
 
Corrosion said:
I cannot see any team giving up the multiple #1's for Jackson, I think the team he ends up on and the Ravens reach some kind of "other agreement".

Also don't see more than 3 years guaranteed no matter where he lands or how long the contract actually is. It just isn't smart to tie the fortunes of your entire franchise to a guy who may or may not perform at the same level for whatever reason with no way out when you don't have to.
You plan the divorce before the wedding .... and that's what the triggers on these contracts are. Nothing nefarious or illegal about it. It's good business sense.
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I never said anything illegal, I'm saying for 3 years and the money, LJ is worth it in my opinion especially for teams like Atl and Indy. No matter how he is viewed, he's dynamic and when he's on the field, they win alot. He's the main reason because of his legs. Give him a coach like Stichen who helped develop Hurts and some threats like Indy has and its a problem. I'm not sure he's going to be the same after he turns 30, but we have seen a guy like Randall Cunningham get better as he aged to the point of thar 98 Vikings becoming a record setting offense. Post draft, 2 future 1st rd picks that will be in the late teens/early 20s is worth it imo.
 
Mr teX said:
Im not missing a damn thing. Jones has been trash for the entirety of his career until last year where he was just decent….and he was able to pull 40 per from the giants. If he reverts back to garbage next year, guess what, that 92 million ain’t going nowhere and it’s still hampering them for more than a few seasons going forward. Even if he plays to the same level he played last year…is he really worth 40 per? The Giants were bidding against themselves for a middling qb at best…but yet somehow y’all wanna make the distinction that Haslam was the “sucker”.

The fact that they can get out of the contract after 3 years only wipes out a portion of his overall deal…..the SMALLER non-guaranteed portion.
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www.spotrac.com

Daniel Jones | NFL Contracts & Salaries | Spotrac.com

www.spotrac.com www.spotrac.com
 
I would rather draft a rookie QB and take my chances he will be good. Jackson is a great athlete but we have seen his game get totally exposed in the playoffs. I can't see giving up 2 first round picks, and 300 plus million guarunteed to a guy with 1 playoff win in his career.
 
leebigeztx said:
I never said anything illegal, I'm saying for 3 years and the money, LJ is worth it in my opinion especially for teams like Atl and Indy. No matter how he is viewed, he's dynamic and when he's on the field, they win alot. He's the main reason because of his legs. Give him a coach like Stichen who helped develop Hurts and some threats like Indy has and its a problem. I'm not sure he's going to be the same after he turns 30, but we have seen a guy like Randall Cunningham get better as he aged to the point of thar 98 Vikings becoming a record setting offense. Post draft, 2 future 1st rd picks that will be in the late teens/early 20s is worth it imo.
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I know you didn't say anything about illegal or collusion .... it was just an attachment for those who did.

I think we are pretty much in agreement on this topic .... after the draft, I expect some team to make a play for him & 3 years guaranteed is a fair for both sides.


That isn't what he's demanding tho .... he's wanting a Watson deal which no one is giving him or anyone else for that matter. He's gonna have to accept reality or sit out a year and accept reality later.
 
texanhead08 said:
I would rather draft a rookie QB and take my chances he will be good. Jackson is a great athlete but we have seen his game get totally exposed in the playoffs. I can't see giving up 2 first round picks, and 300 plus million guarunteed to a guy with 1 playoff win in his career.
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You say exposed? I don't think his style had anything to do with the 2 playoff losses, but that's my opinion. In terms of worth, how valuable are 2 1st rd picks when they're probably going to be late teens early 20s because his new team will be a playoff team?
 
This guy can’t hit the broad sign of a barn. He is not a good passer of the football. Last time I looked, a QB’s primary job is throwing the ball. If you want to run a wildcat offense, sign Derrick Henry. In addition, his play style is going to lead to a shortened career. Anyone that signs him with a large guarantee is dumber than a box of rocks like this QB is. He is extremely overrated to me. By far the most overrated QB in the NFL and it’s not close. He is Davis Mills with a shorter neck and better wheels.
 
Texansballer74 said:
If they want to bring excitement, fans back in the bud and wins. Then he’s worth it IMO. Even though I don’t see them trading for him.
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Wouldn't you rather have a QB that can actually pass the ball?
Jackson has won 1 playoff game and reportedly wants more than 230 million and it would cost 2 1st round picks.

Found this interesting...
Baltimore Ravens quarterback Lamar Jackson, who has requested a trade this offseason, isn't believed to be demanding a fully guaranteed deal. It's becoming clear that no NFL team is aggressively pursuing him in a trade or preparing an offer sheet for him, and ESPN's Jeremy Fowler doesn't get the sense that the Ravens are aggressively negotiating a deal with him. Baltimore's desire to keep Jackson is a common refrain among teams, and there's also the issues of guaranteed money, multiple first-round picks required to acquire him and his durability concerns. In any event, Jackson isn't expected to sign his franchise tag anytime soon, and the two sides still have until July 17 to reach a long-term extension. Sources say that Jackson is insisting on getting more fully guaranteed money than the $230 million the Browns gave Deshaun Watson.--Keith Hernandez - RotoBaller
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link
 
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