Texans / Lamar Jackson SI article

[thunderkyss]

You think these players don’t know the business or their worth? Cmon dude

How much are they worth?


The Ravens are 19th on the NFL valuation list. The Jets, Redskins, Dolphins, Texans, Falcons, Vikings… none of them have a Lamar Jackson, Ray Lewis, T.Sizzle & haven’t in some time. Jets have what, 1 winning season in the last 15?

Doesn’t make sense, but those are the numbers.

 

[sandman]

that was me buddy..& those things weren’t “suggested” so much as they were reference points for how out of touch the nfl owners are with things…as they are in this situation.

Thanks for the correction. Quality control issues on my part with referencing previous posts.

 

[The1ApplePie]

It’s only collusion if they actively discuss & decide against Jackson.

but this… just like they let the Browns hang themselves, I don’t think they’d stop another team castrating themselves.

Common sense says don’t do thaStupidSht.

DW4 and the Browns set the precedent for what an elite QB can get. It is in the best interest of the owners to attempt to close the floodgates. The young and rising QBs that are coming off their rookie deals are all looking for Watson like numbers. Hell, even terrible QBs are getting huge paydays in the wake of Watson.

Lamar is the best QB to hit the market after Watson, this is the owners colluding in a last-ditch effort to get the QB pay under control.

 

[sandman]

DW4 and the Browns set the precedent for what an elite QB can get. It is in the best interest of the owners to attempt to close the floodgates. The young and rising QBs that are coming off their rookie deals are all looking for Watson like numbers. Hell, even terrible QBs are getting huge paydays in the wake of Watson.

Lamar is the best QB to hit the market after Watson, this is the owners colluding in a last-ditch effort to get the QB pay under control.

Agree to disagree that Watson set the precedent. This situation with the holdout, scandal and trade was very unusual, and the Haslam's were acting from a place of desperation because... Cleveland.

Since the Texans entered the league in 2002 they have been even worse than the Texans. They've had zero legit starting QB's during that time, depending on your assessment of Mayfield.

Desperate people doing desperate things.

 

[OptimisticTexan]

nvmd

 

[The1ApplePie]

Agree to disagree that Watson set the precedent. This situation with the holdout, scandal and trade was very unusual, and the Haslam's were acting from a place of desperation because... Cleveland.

Since the Texans entered the league in 2002 they have been even worse than the Texans. They've had zero legit starting QB's during that time, depending on your assessment of Mayfield.

Desperate people doing desperate things.

Kind of the point. Agents can point out that a guy with all that holdout drama and a billion sexual charges was able to get 300 million. Guys may not get that ridiculous amount, but the ceiling has been raised dramatically.

 

[Texansphan]

Kind of the point. Agents can point out that a guy with all that holdout drama and a billion sexual charges was able to get 300 million. Guys may not get that ridiculous amount, but the ceiling has been raised dramatically.

And they can refuse to buy at that price.
When you go into a car dealership to buy a new car, do you just agree with and sign everything they throw at you without question?

 

[sandman]

Kind of the point. Agents can point out that a guy with all that holdout drama and a billion sexual charges was able to get 300 million. Guys may not get that ridiculous amount, but the ceiling has been raised dramatically.

The counterpoint is that owners can point to Jimmy Haslam and say "I'm not desperate like that".

 

[Generic Fan]

If u don’t believe this is collusion by NFL owners..then you must also believe that teams don’t talk shop with players and their agents before the “legal” tampering period.

You must also believe that they didn’t collude to keep Kaepernick out of the league after they settled the lawsuit…in your world, there were 32 starting qbs and 60 ish qbs total that were better and deserved roster spots over him…

You probably also believe that the owners didnt purposely hide over 100 million from players during the last collective bargaining agreement…before the players union caught them.

Long history of these dudes colluding together to achieve THEIR greater good. Dont think there’s any question their colluding against Lamar…but b/c its so hard to prove, they’ll likely continue to get away with it.

Is collusion in the room with us now?

 

[The1ApplePie]

And they can refuse to buy at that price.
When you go into a car dealership to buy a new car, do you just agree with and sign everything they throw at you without question?

And the player can refuse to sell at that price. The team holding his contract or wanting to sign him loses out on a top QB and tanks to oblivion. The power that QBs have is growing with every year. The NFL is built around them now. If you don't have a franchise QB, you might as well forfeit the season at this point.

Aaron Rogers is holding two teams hostage, and demanding that a team he doesn't even play for sign his buddies so that he might go there.

 

[Texansphan]

And the player can refuse to sell at that price. The team holding his contract or wanting to sign him loses out on a top QB and tanks to oblivion. The power that QBs have is growing with every year. The NFL is built around them now. If you don't have a franchise QB, you might as well forfeit the season at this point.

Aaron Rogers is holding two teams hostage, and demanding that a team he doesn't even play for sign his buddies so that he might go there.

We had a saying at the dealership - "we don't collect them"
Iow, if the QB wants to make money, then sell!
Supply and demand - if no-one wants you at your price, you can sit on the shelf.

 

[Hervoyel]

Kind of the point. Agents can point out that a guy with all that holdout drama and a billion sexual charges was able to get 300 million. Guys may not get that ridiculous amount, but the ceiling has been raised dramatically.

And owners can reply "Not outside of Cleveland they don't" and then chuckle and push the offer sheet back across the table and say "Best I can do is _________".

 

[Hervoyel]

Is collusion in the room with us now?

"...Show us on the doll where collusion touched you"?

No need for a grand conspiracy or even a little one to make this happen. 31 greedy AsF owners are going to do what's best for them and all come to the same conclusion. The actions of the one that screwed up are only going to serve as a warning to the rest and drive home the lesson even further. Conspiracies are fragile and leave plenty of evidence and nobody can keep a secret. The moment Kaepernick entered that first season unemployed I think we all knew he was never going to be on a roster again and I doubt a single phone call, email, or meeting "at a secret country mansion in Colorado" was needed to seal the deal. It was a given. "I'm not signing that a-hole" would be the prevailing sentiment and none of them are stupid enough to actually come out and say it. They don't need to. Just like they don't need to pay anyone like Cleveland paid Watson anytime soon.

 

[Hervoyel]

And the player can refuse to sell at that price. The team holding his contract or wanting to sign him loses out on a top QB and tanks to oblivion. The power that QBs have is growing with every year. The NFL is built around them now. If you don't have a franchise QB, you might as well forfeit the season at this point.

Aaron Rogers is holding two teams hostage, and demanding that a team he doesn't even play for sign his buddies so that he might go there.

And every year cheaper, younger, options come into the league on rookie contracts. You only really have to worry about that stuff if you're trying to win a Super Bowl or find that you drafted one that worked out and you want to keep him. Teams are businesses and this is a business that nobody loses money at regardless of what they do. Even the mediocre QB's are expensive now but it's all relative. If you don't want to pay a franchise QB a King's ransom then you can just keep going back to the well and say you're trying to find one while your franchise keeps making money anyway.

 

[Corrosion]

Or they are suggesting collusion because no one has even entered into negotiations with him.

Each team is doing what is in their best interest. They all have the same best interest ....

Leaving themselves no outs is not in their best interest.

Locking yourself into a situation that could at any moment turn bad for X# years is a bad idea when you can avoid it and only lock yourself in for half of that term .... yet still maintain the upside of the X# term by having the options on the subsequent seasons - and the player gets nothing in return.

Common sense doesn't require collusion ....

 

[Carr Bombed]

Well you’d be wrong..every one of the guys on Lamar’s level know their market value…thats why their respective teams rarely let them hit FA..just like the Ravens aren’t by restricting him..

its not moving the goal posts, its just acknowledging the difference between a 1st tier FA and a 3rd tier one.

Actually I'm not wrong.. case in point Lamar Jackson. He clearly doesn't know his value, reason why he doesn't have a contract and why no one is trading for him at his asking price. Your market value is what people are willing to pay you.. NO ONE is willing to pay him what he wants, so that makes him wrong and you wrong.

 

[Xopher]

And next, dancing on the stage, put your hands together for...Collusion!!!

 

[Corrosion]

And the player can refuse to sell at that price. The team holding his contract or wanting to sign him loses out on a top QB and tanks to oblivion. The power that QBs have is growing with every year. The NFL is built around them now. If you don't have a franchise QB, you might as well forfeit the season at this point.

Aaron Rogers is holding two teams hostage, and demanding that a team he doesn't even play for sign his buddies so that he might go there.

Seems to me in the last handful of posts you've moved the goalposts around .... The discussion isn't really about "How much" but "How much is guaranteed."

This is a league where Tom Brady & Pat Mahomes triggers for non-guaranteed money.

Mahomes was only guaranteed $63m out of $477m over 10 years.

Here's the triggers ....

• $63M guaranteed at signing (signing bonus + 2020 salary + 2021 salary + 2021 roster bonus + 2022 salary + 2022 roster bonus)
• 2023 salary & roster bonus + workout bonus fully guarantee on 3/19/2021 ($100M of total dead cap)
• 2024 salary & roster bonus + workout bonus fully guarantee on 3/18/2022 ($113.3M of total dead cap)
• 2025 roster bonus + workout bonus fully guarantees on 3/17/2023 ($121.3M of total dead cap)
• 2025 salary + workout bonus fully guarantees on the 3rd league day of 2024 ($81.9M of total dead cap)
• 2026 roster bonus fully guarantees on the 3rd league day of 2025 ($80.85M of total dead cap)
• 2026 salary + workout bonus , 2027 roster bonus fully guarantee on the 3rd league day of 2026 ($91.35M of total dead cap)
• 2027 salary + workout bonus + 2028 salary + 2028 roster bonus fully guarantee on the 3rd league of 2027 ($104M of total dead cap)
• 2029 salary + workout bonus & 2029 roster bonus fully guarantee on the 3rd league day of 2028 ($89.4M of total dead cap)
• 2030 salary & 2030 roster bonus fully guarantee on the 3rd league day of 2029 ($94.85M of total dead cap)
• 2031 roster bonus fully guarantee on the 3rd league day of 2030 ($63.8M of total dead cap)
• 2031 base salary fully guarantees on the 3rd league day of 2031 ($51.9M of total dead cap)
• Playoff Bonus: $1.25 million for winning the AFC Champ Game
• League MVP Bonus: $1.25M

Each of those triggers is an escape clause for the franchise should he no longer be worth the financial outlay.

Basically, this is the leagues way of saying "we will pay you, but we will do so on our terms - without the risk of being stuck with you if you can't produce."

& players insure these contracts against injury so when the team cuts bait, they still collect.

In a league where injury is probable, franchises have no incentive to change how these contracts have been structured. That's NOT collusion, it's common sense.


Cleveland wasn't landing Watson without that 100% guarantee AND being paid a considerable sum more than any other team offered. They were desperate and that desperation is already biting them in the ass. (That report above about a team crying that they didn't get a chance to match is a fabrication - No other team was going into that uncharted territory).

 

[Double Barrel]

this article claims others were willing to match

Report: 1 NFL Team Would’ve Matched Deshaun Watson’s Browns Contract If Given Chance

Deshaun Watson made sure he ended up on the Cleveland Browns. According to <a...

bleacherreport.com

According to Jason Lloyd of The Athletic, Watson's camp "never shopped" the five-year, $230 million contract the quarterback ultimately signed with the Browns.

Per that report: "When the stunning announcement was made that Watson was headed to Cleveland and contract details emerged, one team called and asked why it wasn't given an opportunity to match—because, they insisted, they would have.

If true, what this tells me is that the league does not evaluate and value Lamar Jackson at the same level as they do Deshaun Watson.

Its pure revisionist history to suggest it was just “the dumb Haslams” & the Browns who ponied up.

This statement undermines your entire collusion claim.

Which is it? 31 owners colluding, or, many of them willing to give Watson a fully guaranteed contract?

It can't be both and you're using pretzel logic if you try to argue both sides at the same time.

Or they are suggesting collusion because no one has even entered into negotiations with him.

Here's why I don't buy the collusion argument for this situation:

If this was the exact same situation, but Pat Mahomes, we'd see at least a dozen franchises lined up to give KC whatever they wanted while giving Mahomes the biggest fully guaranteed contract in NFL history.

There would be no grand conspiracy to avoid 100% guarantees when it comes to a talent like Mahomes.

The league has clearly made a collective evaluation that Lamar Jackson is not worth it. It's as simple as that and over complicating it with made up agendas is just tail/tale chasing nonsense.

 

[Xopher]

Seems to me in the last handful of posts you've moved the goalposts around .... The discussion isn't really about "How much" but "How much is guaranteed."

This is a league where Tom Brady & Pat Mahomes triggers for non-guaranteed money.

Mahomes was only guaranteed $63m out of $477m over 10 years.

Here's the triggers ....

Each of those triggers is an escape clause for the franchise should he no longer be worth the financial outlay.

Basically, this is the leagues way of saying "we will pay you, but we will do so on our terms - without the risk of being stuck with you if you can't produce."

& players insure these contracts against injury so when the team cuts bait, they still collect.

In a league where injury is probable, franchises have no incentive to change how these contracts have been structured. That's NOT collusion, it's common sense.


Cleveland wasn't landing Watson without that 100% guarantee AND being paid a considerable sum more than any other team offered. They were desperate and that desperation is already biting them in the ass. (That report above about a team crying that they didn't get a chance to match is a fabrication - No other team was going into that uncharted territory).

Yep . Not that they would, but they could cut Mahomes in 2026 and only have 4.8 million in dead money which basically can turn his 10 year contract into a 6 year contract.

Edit: I did that wrong. His new contract didn't start until 2022. The Chiefs can get out in 2026 with a 4.8 million cap hit. Making it a 4 year contract

 

[Mr teX]

If true, what this tells me is that the league does not evaluate and value Lamar Jackson at the same level as they do Deshaun Watson.



This statement undermines your entire collusion claim.

Which is it? 31 owners colluding, or, many of them willing to give Watson a fully guaranteed contract?

It can't be both and you're using pretzel logic if you try to argue both sides at the same time.



Here's why I don't buy the collusion argument for this situation:

If this was the exact same situation, but Pat Mahomes, we'd see at least a dozen franchises lined up to give KC whatever they wanted while giving Mahomes the biggest fully guaranteed contract in NFL history.

There would be no grand conspiracy to avoid 100% guarantees when it comes to a talent like Mahomes.

The league has clearly made a collective evaluation that Lamar Jackson is not worth it. It's as simple as that and over complicating it with made up agendas is just tail/tale chasing nonsense.

Think you’re a little lost in the convo. When have league owners EVER acted in concert on ANYTHING except for nefarious purposes lol? Even with DW4 and all the crap he had going on off the field, he had 2-3 teams vying for his services. Now all of a sudden you’d have us believe that they “collectively evaluated” that a 26 year old former MVP and bonafide franchise qb that’s out on the market …..is supposedly not worth it? Not even a check in with him? Sounds to me you’re the one indulging in the conspiracy theories and are giving these guys way too much credit that they can restrain themselves WITHOUT some agreed upon pact to begin with…. Something that they mostly have NEVER been able to do in the past. There’s always at least 1 who will bite…In this situation, not a single bite. They in fact are going out of their way to publicly state the opposite.

Its clearly collusion.

 

[Lucky]

How many really care if these owners do collude? Is it smart on their part to collude? If they run a very small chance at getting caught?

I'm not sure why, but most fans relate more to billionaire owners than millionaire players. Not that either are all that relatable. I've always found that odd.

 

[Mr teX]

Actually I'm not wrong.. case in point Lamar Jackson. He clearly doesn't know his value, reason why he doesn't have a contract and why no one is trading for him at his asking price. Your market value is what people are willing to pay you.. NO ONE is willing to pay him what he wants, so that makes him wrong and you wrong.

You’re dead wrong b/c The Ravens won’t let him find out what his true market price is…They’re too scared to let him really find out..which is why they want the right to match. If they were so sure noone would pay him what he’s asking for…which NONE of us know we only speculate, they just hit him with the exclusive franchise tag and sit back….you’re not worried about matching. They’re too afraid to let him really get out there and find a better deal with a team willing to get more creative than them.

Its clearly collusion, but they don’t even trust their own guys to uphold it.

 

[Corrosion]

How many really care if these owners do collude? Is it smart on their part to collude? If they run a very small chance at getting caught?

I'm not sure why, but most fans relate more to billionaire owners than millionaire players. Not that either are all that relatable. I've always found that odd.

Are they colluding or are they simply coming to the same conclusion individually - "This is what's best for me?"

 

[Lucky]

Are they colluding or are they simply coming to the same conclusion individually - "This is what's best for me?"

They colluding. And not very subtly. Despite being billionaires...they're not very smart.

 

[Corrosion]

They colluding. And not very subtly. Despite being billionaires...they're not very smart.

Comical.

They don't need to "collude" to come to the conclusion that guaranteeing hundreds of millions of dollars to someone who is highly likely to get injured and not be able to produce at the same level is a bad idea.

I guess they all met in a secret bunker ..... and said in unison we're not going to pay players more than we have to.

You ought to look up the definition of "collusion".

 

[sandman]

Think you’re a little lost in the convo. When have league owners EVER acted in concert on ANYTHING except for nefarious purposes lol? Even with DW4 and all the crap he had going on off the field, he had 2-3 teams vying for his services. Now all of a sudden you’d have us believe that they “collectively evaluated” that a 26 year old former MVP and bonafide franchise qb that’s out on the market …..is supposedly not worth it? Not even a check in with him? Sounds to me you’re the one indulging in the conspiracy theories and are giving these guys way too much credit that they can restrain themselves WITHOUT some agreed upon pact to begin with…. Something that they mostly have NEVER been able to do in the past. There’s always at least 1 who will bite…In this situation, not a single bite. They in fact are going out of their way to publicly state the opposite.

Its clearly collusion.

Honest questions: How many teams should be reaching out to him right now? How are those teams positioned in this year's draft to select a QB? If it was 2-3 vying for Watson, how many should be doing the same for Jackson? And which teams would it be? Why would Atlanta go after Watson, but not Jackson?

 

[Corrosion]

Honest questions: How many teams should be reaching out to him right now? How are those teams positioned in this year's draft to select a QB? If it was 2-3 vying for Watson, how many should be doing the same for Jackson? And which teams would it be? Why would Atlanta go after Watson, but not Jackson?

If recent results are to be taken into account .... No one should be lining up to trade multiple #1's and then take on a large cap hit for a QB.

The last two teams who did so didn't even finish .500 much less make the playoffs.

 

[Texansphan]

If recent results are to be taken into account .... No one should be lining up to trade multiple #1's and then take on a large cap hit for a QB.

The last two teams who did so didn't even finish .500 much less make the playoffs.

If you could get him for no draft capital and say 35-40 mill per, he would be snapped up pretty quick.

 

[Texansballer74]

Think you’re a little lost in the convo. When have league owners EVER acted in concert on ANYTHING except for nefarious purposes lol? Even with DW4 and all the crap he had going on off the field, he had 2-3 teams vying for his services. Now all of a sudden you’d have us believe that they “collectively evaluated” that a 26 year old former MVP and bonafide franchise qb that’s out on the market …..is supposedly not worth it? Not even a check in with him? Sounds to me you’re the one indulging in the conspiracy theories and are giving these guys way too much credit that they can restrain themselves WITHOUT some agreed upon pact to begin with…. Something that they mostly have NEVER been able to do in the past. There’s always at least 1 who will bite…In this situation, not a single bite. They in fact are going out of their way to publicly state the opposite.

Its clearly collusion.

Lol exactly. The rest of the group didn’t like what Watson got from Cleveland. All guaranteed, are you crazy. Especially for a joker who is not representing their brand like he should. Now they’re coming up with bull crap to justify not paying this young man. Too freaking funny

 

[Texansphan]

Lol exactly. The rest of the group didn’t like what Watson got from Cleveland. All guaranteed, are you crazy. Especially for a joker who is not representing their brand like he should. Now they’re coming up with bull crap to justify not paying this young man. Too freaking funny

Watson was grossly overpaid.
What did he do to earn that sort of contract?

 

[Mr teX]

If recent results are to be taken into account .... No one should be lining up to trade multiple #1's and then take on a large cap hit for a QB.

The last two teams who did so didn't even finish .500 much less make the playoffs.

Plenty of teams who have qbs with non-guaranteed contracts that finished outside of the playoffs too. Maybe they should’nt be paid either.

Honest questions: How many teams should be reaching out to him right now? How are those teams positioned in this year's draft to select a QB? If it was 2-3 vying for Watson, how many should be doing the same for Jackson? And which teams would it be? Why would Atlanta go after Watson, but not Jackson?

It could be any team not named the chiefs, bengals and bills…probably the jets too honestly. Losing has a way of making these FO/owners act where they wouldn’t have before. We’re hearing teams declaring their starters trying to show confidence in their guy to not fracture his ego….ATL just declared Ridder…Campbell backing Goff…RIGHT NOW they’re doing that. But what happens when u start losing or not meeting the expectations you had coming into the season…..or its clear as day Ridder ain’t it and you’re a team close to making the playoffs and/or turning the corner? That’s when u might see some movement.

But to directly answer your question, there’s always at least 2-3…alot times at least 2 are less obvious. For instance, A team like the rams. They’ve been losing & trading players left and right just to free up money to get under the cap this year..Stafford’s on his last legs & his cap hit jumps significantly next year..something will have to be done with him….we also know they don’t really care about draft picks like that. They don’t have a 2023 1st, but starting in 2024, they’ll have their full compliment of picks back. We also know its tough to keep LA fans interested, a blockbuster trade for Lamar after this year or even at the deadline could reinvigorate that team.

Minnesota has shown they’re pretty much at the end of the line with Cousins…only signed him for 1 year. They’ve got a young offensive core and thru Cousins, they’re the only team in the league with experience in negotiating guaranteed contracts with
a qb…

Washington..Ron Rivera’s not long for the gig, Team is getting sold..new owners might want to make a splash b/c Sam Howell definitely aint that guy.

everyone looks at the obvious teams…but most if not all those teams are in position to land a guy in this draft.

 

[Mr. White]

He can wish in one hand and crap in the other and see which one fills up first.

I'll take "Things my dad used to say" for $400, Aaron.

 

[Texansballer74]

Watson was grossly overpaid.
What did he do to earn that sort of contract?

Not a darn thing. That’s my point, Jackson has done more. Shannon Sharp broke it down just the other day. Jackson is getting the nasty residual effect of a bad desperate decision by the Browns owner.

Hey IMO none of these players shouldn’t be getting paid like that.

 

[JB]

This thread is just pure comedy now and doing nothing but ruffling feathers of the committed

And I still have no idea what it has to do with the Texans at this point.

 

[Mr teX]

Not a darn thing. That’s my point, Jackson has done more. Shannon Sharp broke it down just the other day. Jackson is getting the nasty residual effect of a bad desperate decision by the Browns owner.

Hey IMO none of these players shouldn’t be getting paid like that.

& the thing about that is, its nothing new. there’s ALWAYS a sad, desperate owner.

 

[Xopher]

Plenty of teams who have qbs with non-guaranteed contracts that finished outside of the playoffs too. Maybe they should’nt be paid either.




It could be any team not named the chiefs, bengals and bills…probably the jets too honestly. Losing has a way of making these FO/owners act where they wouldn’t have before. We’re hearing teams declaring their starters trying to show confidence in their guy to not fracture his ego….ATL just declared Ridder…Campbell backing Goff…RIGHT NOW they’re doing that. But what happens when u start losing or not meeting the expectations you had coming into the season…..or its clear as day Ridder ain’t it and you’re a team close to making the playoffs and/or turning the corner? That’s when u might see some movement.

But to directly answer your question, there’s always at least 2-3…alot times at least 2 are less obvious. For instance, A team like the rams. They’ve been losing & trading players left and right just to free up money to get under the cap this year..Stafford’s on his last legs & his cap hit jumps significantly next year..something will have to be done with him….we also know they don’t really care about draft picks like that. They don’t have a 2023 1st, but starting in 2024, they’ll have their full compliment of picks back. We also know its tough to keep LA fans interested, a blockbuster trade for Lamar after this year or even at the deadline could reinvigorate that team.

Minnesota has shown they’re pretty much at the end of the line with Cousins…only signed him for 1 year. They’ve got a young offensive core and thru Cousins, they’re the only team in the league with experience in negotiating guaranteed contracts with
a qb…

Washington..Ron Rivera’s not long for the gig, Team is getting sold..new owners might want to make a splash b/c Sam Howell definitely aint that guy.

everyone looks at the obvious teams…but most if not all those teams are in position to land a guy in this draft.

The Rams are having to lose and trade players to get under the cap for Stafford and havent had a 1st rounder in forever. Yet you want them to sign a more expensive QB AND give up 2 1st rounders? Seriously? Teams are not giving out those massive guaranteed contracts. Mahomes didn't get one. KC can get out in 2026 with a 4.8 million cap hit. You pick the one outlier, Watson. I can also show you the idiot who paid sticker price for a car pre-pandemic. There is a sucker in every crowd. Cleveland was the sucker.

 

[Xopher]

Plus there is no way in Hell they are giving a 230+ GUARANTEED contract to guy who was injured at the end of the season for 5 games in 2021 and 6 games in 2022.

 

[Mr teX]

The Rams are having to lose and trade players to get under the cap for Stafford and havent had a 1st rounder in forever. Yet you want them to sign a more expensive QB AND give up 2 1st rounders? Seriously? Teams are not giving out those massive guaranteed contracts. Mahomes didn't get one. KC can get out in 2026 with a 4.8 million cap hit. You pick the one outlier, Watson. I can also show you the idiot who paid sticker price for a car pre-pandemic. There is a sucker in every crowd. Cleveland was the sucker.

dude i laid all that out in regards to the Rams…and mahomes’ contract is trash…very team friendly & definitely not the norm either. So while you’re trying to compare, take THAT into account as well.

Watson’s contract is the only 1 fully guaranteed, but Murray and Wilson both average more per year…and you know Rodgers is the only 1 making 50 per.

Was GB a “sucker” for guaranteeing a guy damn near 40 and a malcontent 50 per? Just b/c it wasn’t guaranteed doesnt mean was any less team restricting and dumb to give him.

sucker is relative

 

[leebigeztx]

If true, what this tells me is that the league does not evaluate and value Lamar Jackson at the same level as they do Deshaun Watson.



This statement undermines your entire collusion claim.

Which is it? 31 owners colluding, or, many of them willing to give Watson a fully guaranteed contract?

It can't be both and you're using pretzel logic if you try to argue both sides at the same time.



Here's why I don't buy the collusion argument for this situation:

If this was the exact same situation, but Pat Mahomes, we'd see at least a dozen franchises lined up to give KC whatever they wanted while giving Mahomes the biggest fully guaranteed contract in NFL history.

There would be no grand conspiracy to avoid 100% guarantees when it comes to a talent like Mahomes.

The league has clearly made a collective evaluation that Lamar Jackson is not worth it. It's as simple as that and over complicating it with made up agendas is just tail/tale chasing nonsense.

I think after the draft, there will be movement on LJ. If I were advising him, I would take a 3 year fully guaranteed contract at about 45m. That would give him and the team flexibility. There have been so called conversations about the Colts which is a no brainer for him and Ballard. I haven't spoken to Ballard in a few months and I don't want to bother him, but I know a little about hiw that dude thinks. For the 1st time, he's on the hot seat. He can save his job and secure his future with LJ. They already have a head coach who can function with a guy like LJ and they have Pierce and Pittman outside along with the elite rb and a decent oline. They would create problems for everyone. They would have to sign a a good backup because Jackson will miss a couple of games. I'd rather have LJ than Levis or Richardson. Has Brissett signed with anyone yet or resigned with Cleveland yet. Dorian Thompson or even Hooker later inthe draft would be good backups to Jackson style wise.

 

[leebigeztx]

Plenty of teams who have qbs with non-guaranteed contracts that finished outside of the playoffs too. Maybe they should’nt be paid either.




It could be any team not named the chiefs, bengals and bills…probably the jets too honestly. Losing has a way of making these FO/owners act where they wouldn’t have before. We’re hearing teams declaring their starters trying to show confidence in their guy to not fracture his ego….ATL just declared Ridder…Campbell backing Goff…RIGHT NOW they’re doing that. But what happens when u start losing or not meeting the expectations you had coming into the season…..or its clear as day Ridder ain’t it and you’re a team close to making the playoffs and/or turning the corner? That’s when u might see some movement.

But to directly answer your question, there’s always at least 2-3…alot times at least 2 are less obvious. For instance, A team like the rams. They’ve been losing & trading players left and right just to free up money to get under the cap this year..Stafford’s on his last legs & his cap hit jumps significantly next year..something will have to be done with him….we also know they don’t really care about draft picks like that. They don’t have a 2023 1st, but starting in 2024, they’ll have their full compliment of picks back. We also know its tough to keep LA fans interested, a blockbuster trade for Lamar after this year or even at the deadline could reinvigorate that team.

Minnesota has shown they’re pretty much at the end of the line with Cousins…only signed him for 1 year. They’ve got a young offensive core and thru Cousins, they’re the only team in the league with experience in negotiating guaranteed contracts with
a qb…

Washington..Ron Rivera’s not long for the gig, Team is getting sold..new owners might want to make a splash b/c Sam Howell definitely aint that guy.

everyone looks at the obvious teams…but most if not all those teams are in position to land a guy in this draft.

I think ATl with Smith is in play also. I think after the draft, when teams will give up next years pick is more prudent. We also know ATL is a city that craves excitement. They get Jackson along with Pitts and London, they would be cooking with grease!That division is there for the taking also.

 

[powda]

I don't see collusion here, just bad timing. He's 2 years removed from a great season and has a play style that doesn't lend itself to a long career.

He's chasing a dw contract which no one outside the Browns thought was reasonable. He doesn't have an agent and that doesn't help.

Every gm or coach knows signing Lj would be a boom or pink slip endeavor. That kind of guaranteed money could cripple a franchise for half a decade.

 

[Mr teX]

I don't see collusion here, just bad timing. He's 2 years removed from a great season and has a play style that doesn't lend itself to a long career.

He's chasing a dw contract which no one outside the Browns thought was reasonable. He doesn't have an agent and that doesn't help.

Every gm or coach knows signing Lj would be a boom or pink slip endeavor. That kind of guaranteed money could cripple a franchise for half a decade.

I just don’t see how people really hold onto that notion considering most of these teams are already guaranteeing upwards of 100+ million for their franchise qbs. Outside of Watson you have

Dak with over 100 mill guaranteed …then Murray & Allen with over 150 million guaranteed....then Wilson with over 160. God knows how much Burrow and Herbert are gonna get guaranteed. Only 1 of these dudes has won a SB…none have been an MVP. All of them run around.

those contracts can and have been just as crippling to a franchise.

 

[powda]

I just don’t see how people really hold onto that notion considering most of these teams are already guaranteeing upwards of 100+ million for their franchise qbs. Outside of Watson you have

Dak with over 100 mill guaranteed …then Murray & Allen with over 150 million guaranteed....then Wilson with over 160. God knows how much Burrow and Herbert are gonna get guaranteed. Only 1 of these dudes has won a SB…none have been an MVP. All of them run around.

those contracts can and have been just as crippling to a franchise.

Seems to me you're making my case. Thanks.

 

[Mr teX]

I think ATl with Smith is in play also. I think after the draft, when teams will give up next years pick is more prudent. We also know ATL is a city that craves excitement. They get Jackson along with Pitts and London, they would be cooking with grease!That division is there for the taking also.

i agree…if Ridder comes out stinking it up, there will be unrest with the fan base know Lamar is out there to be had.

 

[Mr teX]

Seems to me you're making my case. Thanks.

Dont see how. My point is that Once you get over 100+ million guaranteed the money is crippling to a franchise no matter how it comes in the contract.

lots of hand-wringing for nothing.

 

[powda]

Dont see how. My point is that Once you get over 100+ million guaranteed the money is crippling to a franchise no matter how it comes in the contract.

lots of hand-wringing for nothing.

You've named qb's who didn't make the sb and nothing else to disprove my opinion.

The caps only 224.8 million.

 

[Mr teX]

You've named qb's who didn't make the sb and nothing else to disprove my opinion.

The caps only 224.8 million.

Yeah there’s 0 correlation there, nor was i trying to disprove your opinion..but u guys have at it..

what the cap is on a yearly basis is immaterial as well..none of tgese guys are getting all their guaranteed money in 1 year.

 

[powda]

Yeah there’s 0 correlation there, nor was i trying to disprove your opinion..but u guys have at it..

What's your point here? You don't think a giant contract and underperformance is detrimental to a team?

 

[Mr teX]

What's your point here? You don't think a giant contract and underperformance is detrimental to a team?

a small contract and underperformance is detrimental to a team if the underperformance is in a critical area of the team…hence TEAM. James Bradbury’s contract was nothing in the grand scheme of the team’s salary cap…but he didn’t play well in the SB & made the biggest mistake in the game that cost his team a SB.