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Texans / Lamar Jackson SI article

Lucky said:
That's your reasoning, not mine. I never considered race or brought it up.
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I mean, the contracts you've compared him to are Watson and Wilson. You stated this will only change when Burrow doesn't get one. You've stated the owners who hand out these contracts are a good ol' boy club that won't hire black coaches. Let's not pretend your tone hasn't suggested the idea, even if that was not your intent.
 
sandman said:
I mean, the contracts you've compared him to are Watson and Wilson. You stated this will only change when Burrow doesn't get one. You've stated the owners who hand out these contracts are a good ol' boy club that won't hire black coaches. Let's not pretend your tone hasn't suggested the idea, even if that was not your intent.
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Again, those are your conclusions. Not mine. I have noted that the owners have been biased against balck head coaches, and they are in fact in legal proceedings over those allegations. Not something I made up, just pointed out the facts. I have not claimed there is racism involved in the suppression and collusion against the QB market. That's your head that came up with that.
 
Hervoyel said:
I'm not sure that we know it is there. One team (Cleveland) doing something idiotic doesn't mean there's a line of teams who are also willing to do the same thing or something similar. To this day I'm still amazed at what Cleveland sent to the Texans and Watson. In my mind it's like "Why would you even consider tying yourself to this POS much less guaranteeing it?"
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This is what I find hilarious. Folks assume "collusion" with zero evidence because there's not another owner as dumb as the Haslams to hand out a ludicrous deal to a player.

Maybe, just maybe, the Haslams are an outlier and nobody wants to albatross their franchises with a massive depletion of draft capital and a quarter of a billion dollars in financial purgatory to honor the contract guarantees.

Nah, can't be Occam's razor, because we got conspiracies to believe! :tinfoil:

I'm going to laugh my ass off when two notoriously cheap organizations (Bengals and Chargers) sign their star QBs to long term deals and this one QB believes he's more deserving just because.
 
Lucky said:
Practically all NBA and MLB contracts are guaranteed. It's not that big of a deal, financially. Especially considering the value of these franchises (Washington is about to sell for over $6 billion).

The NFL has been able to not guarantee contracts forever because...no one offered them. Then one team offered one QB a fully guaranteed 5 year deal. Not the richest franchise. But a franchise that wasn't going to get what they considered a franchise QB any other way.

We had what, a dozen teams entering this offseason needing a franchise QB. And an age 26 former MVP QB with a 73% winning percentage who is arguably as good, if not better than Watson. And no one signs the guy to an offer sheet that only cost 2 1st round picks? Trey Lance, a small college QB with one year of experience, cost the Niners 3 1st round picks. Watson, with all of his misgivings, gets 3 1st rounders + in return. Jackson? A huge bargain for 2 1sts. No bites. None.

But hey, NFL teams are just being smart. Like signing mid level QBs like Carr and Jones for $150 million. They're so smart. No collusion at all here. Nothing to look at.
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Carr and Jones got 150 million guaranteed? Damn I didn't know that. Also these teams can see what type of salary cap hell the Browns have put themselves in at some point in the very near future. Also add in that 230 million has to be put in escrow immediately . I don't believe the draft compensation is the issue with Jackson. The guaranteed money is. Nick would have accepted the deal from any of the finalists for Watson. Who knows he might have had better offers from other teams. The only reason Watson is in Cleveland is because they were the only suitor dumb enough to give him 230 million GAURANTEED. Remeber he had already declined them. Does anyone truly believe Cleveland was Watson's first choice? Just because one owner is an idiot doesn't mean 31 others are.
 
Double Barrel said:
Maybe, just maybe, the Haslams are an outlier and nobody wants to albatross their franchises with a massive depletion of draft capital and a quarter of a billion dollars in financial purgatory to honor the contract guarantees.
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this article claims others were willing to match
bleacherreport.com

Report: 1 NFL Team Would’ve Matched Deshaun Watson’s Browns Contract If Given Chance

Deshaun Watson made sure he ended up on the Cleveland Browns. According to <a...
bleacherreport.com bleacherreport.com
According to Jason Lloyd of The Athletic, Watson's camp "never shopped" the five-year, $230 million contract the quarterback ultimately signed with the Browns.

Per that report: "When the stunning announcement was made that Watson was headed to Cleveland and contract details emerged, one team called and asked why it wasn't given an opportunity to match—because, they insisted, they would have.
 
These are all QB's who have been to an NFC/AFC Championship Game or Super Bowl and none have fully guaranteed contracts.

John Allen - 6-year $258 million with $100 million guaranteed at signing
Patrick Mahomes - 10-year $450 million with $63 million guaranteed at signing
Aaron Rodgers - 3-year $150 million with $100 million guaranteed at signing
Russell Wilson - 5-year $240 million with $124 million guaranteed at signing
Jared Goff - 4-year $134 million with $57 million guaranteed at signing
Matthew Stafford - 4-year $160 million with $63 million guaranteed at signing

Big off-season signings:
Derek Carr - 4-year $150 million with $60 million guaranteed at signing
Daniel Jones - 4-year $160 million with $81 million guaranteed at signing

In all of the above cases, there is additional guaranteed money to be paid based on being on roster at specific dates before specific seasons. But not a single contract guaranteed all of the money even with those provisions.


But Lamar Jackson deserves a fully guaranteed contract...
 
Boris said:
this article claims others were willing to match
bleacherreport.com

Report: 1 NFL Team Would’ve Matched Deshaun Watson’s Browns Contract If Given Chance

Deshaun Watson made sure he ended up on the Cleveland Browns. According to <a...
bleacherreport.com bleacherreport.com
According to Jason Lloyd of The Athletic, Watson's camp "never shopped" the five-year, $230 million contract the quarterback ultimately signed with the Browns.

Per that report: "When the stunning announcement was made that Watson was headed to Cleveland and contract details emerged, one team called and asked why it wasn't given an opportunity to match—because, they insisted, they would have.
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So two teams out of 32. This sounds like the whole "Mugaleta clients create trouble" argument.
 
Xopher said:
Carr and Jones got 150 million guaranteed? Damn I didn't know that. Also these teams can see what type of salary cap hell the Browns have put themselves in at some point in the very near future. Also add in that 230 million has to be put in escrow immediately . I don't believe the draft compensation is the issue with Jackson. The guaranteed money is. Nick would have accepted the deal from any of the finalists for Watson. Who knows he might have had better offers from other teams. The only reason Watson is in Cleveland is because they were the only suitor dumb enough to give him 230 million GAURANTEED. Remeber he had already declined them. Does anyone truly believe Cleveland was Watson's first choice? Just because one owner is an idiot doesn't mean 31 others are.
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Neither Carr nor Jones received a fully guaranteed contract. Per Spot-trac they were between $60-$81 million in guaranteed money at signing.
 
sandman said:
These are all QB's who have been to an NFC/AFC Championship Game or Super Bowl and none have fully guaranteed contracts.

John Allen - 6-year $258 million with $100 million guaranteed at signing
Patrick Mahomes - 10-year $450 million with $63 million guaranteed at signing
Aaron Rodgers - 3-year $150 million with $100 million guaranteed at signing
Russell Wilson - 5-year $240 million with $124 million guaranteed at signing
Jared Goff - 4-year $134 million with $57 million guaranteed at signing
Matthew Stafford - 4-year $160 million with $63 million guaranteed at signing

Big off-season signings:
Derek Carr - 4-year $150 million with $60 million guaranteed at signing
Daniel Jones - 4-year $160 million with $81 million guaranteed at signing

In all of the above cases, there is additional guaranteed money to be paid based on being on roster at specific dates before specific seasons. But not a single contract guaranteed all of the money even with those provisions.


But Lamar Jackson deserves a fully guaranteed contract...
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Who’s saying he deserves a fully guaranteed contract? Even Jackson said he’s not looking for that currently.
 
sandman said:
So two teams out of 32. This sounds like the whole "Mugaleta clients create trouble" argument.
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2 teams out of 10 (perhaps 12), IMO
the other 22 teams either already had a top 10 qb or didn't have the draft capital to participate in the auction
 
Texansballer74 said:
Who’s saying he deserves a fully guaranteed contract? Even Jackson said he’s not looking for that currently.
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OK. Allegedly he turned down a 5-year $250 million contract with $133 guaranteed. That's as good - if not better - than the contracts I listed. What is he looking for if not a contract commiserate with the best QB's in the league?

He wants to Tunsil and reset the market. And he simply isn't the QB to do that, anymore than Watson was.
 
Lucky said:
You're making my point. Every team that needed a QB this offseason decided to not pursue Lamar Jackson. Sure, some teams would be in different situations. The Texans have a high pick in the draft. They have a good shot at a potential franchise QB at a rookie contract price. But no teams decided to pursue Jackson at that price point? Just last year, the Broncos traded 2 1sts, and 2 2nds for 34 year old Russell Wilson. And gave him a 5 year $242 million contract. Now, "only" $161 million was guaranteed. But Wilson was 8 years older than Jackson. Jackson would be 31 in 5 years. Still in his prime.

Jackson would get more money, more years than Wilson received last year. He would even get more guaranteed money. It's not the money. It's not the draft picks. It's the "fully" guaranteed contract. It's a phobia that's driving this. And when Joe Burrow doesn't get a fully guaranteed offer, the NFLPA will be able to take the league to court.
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I do not follow this logic.

If I don't want to offer you a fully guaranteed contract, then I'm not going to offer you a fully guaranteed contract just because someone else was stupid enough to negotiate that.

I wouldn't have offered Watson a fully guaranteed contract; I would definitely not offer one to Lamar Jackson.

So tell me how it would be collusion? Is it collusion every time a player doesn't get as big a contract as he expected to get? Or is it just that he misjudged the market for his services?
 
Lucky said:
Who realistically thinks the NFL is not doing this?
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I know I am not an NFL owner. But if I were, I would not need someone to tell me not to offer Lamar Jackson a fully guaranteed contract anything like Watsons..... just ain't happening.

I agree it's odd that no one else has. but I'm not the one.
 
sandman said:
I mean, the contracts you've compared him to are Watson and Wilson. You stated this will only change when Burrow doesn't get one. You've stated the owners who hand out these contracts are a good ol' boy club that won't hire black coaches. Let's not pretend your tone hasn't suggested the idea, even if that was not your intent.
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that was me buddy..& those things weren’t “suggested” so much as they were reference points for how out of touch the nfl owners are with things…as they are in this situation.
 
Xopher said:
Carr and Jones got 150 million guaranteed? Damn I didn't know that. Also these teams can see what type of salary cap hell the Browns have put themselves in at some point in the very near future. Also add in that 230 million has to be put in escrow immediately . I don't believe the draft compensation is the issue with Jackson. The guaranteed money is. Nick would have accepted the deal from any of the finalists for Watson. Who knows he might have had better offers from other teams. The only reason Watson is in Cleveland is because they were the only suitor dumb enough to give him 230 million GAURANTEED. Remeber he had already declined them. Does anyone truly believe Cleveland was Watson's first choice? Just because one owner is an idiot doesn't mean 31 others are.
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To your point about the Browns being out of it until they weren’t…..we also know there were other teams in the mix for DW4 services as well..Namely Blank and the Falcons…which is why his comments recently about Lamar’s “style of play” & games misses being a concern is 2-faced as hell. Wasn’t worried about style of play when he was pursing DW4 just last year…..even tho he himself tore his ACL his rookie year and missed 9 games..even tho his style of play saw him in the top 5 in terms of qb hits every year.

Its pure revisionist history to suggest it was just “the dumb Haslams” & the Browns who ponied up.
 
The Pencil Neck said:
I do not follow this logic.

If I don't want to offer you a fully guaranteed contract, then I'm not going to offer you a fully guaranteed contract just because someone else was stupid enough to negotiate that.

I wouldn't have offered Watson a fully guaranteed contract; I would definitely not offer one to Lamar Jackson.

So tell me how it would be collusion? Is it collusion every time a player doesn't get as big a contract as he expected to get? Or is it just that he misjudged the market for his services?
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its collusion when u have specific qb needy teams coming out publicly with B.S. excuses for why they’re not interested when they could’ve just said nothing at all…

Its collusion when the team leaks contract details that are on the table to try to make u look bad for turning down “their” contract while privately telling Lamar to keep the talks & negotiations quiet.

Its collusion & 2-faced when you encourage & praise his style of play for 5 years..but hold it against him when its time to pay up.

All of that stuff is aimed at controlling public narrative to once again strong arm him into signing a deal they think is fair.
 
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sandman said:
So two teams out of 32. This sounds like the whole "Mugaleta clients create trouble" argument.
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you’re making the faulty assumption that every team in the league would be in the mix.

For 1, young franchise qbs dont often come on the market like they have the last few years. If this continues to happen, The market in any given year may only ever be no more than 2-4 teams..

IOW, just because the market is small doesn’t mean its not a market.
 
The Pencil Neck said:
If I don't want to offer you a fully guaranteed contract, then I'm not going to offer you a fully guaranteed contract just because someone else was stupid enough to negotiate that.

So tell me how it would be collusion?
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Let's stipulate that this article is correct. Jackson declined a 5 year, $250 million contract with $133 million guaranteed.

Lamar Jackson declined Baltimore Ravens' $250M extension offer, wants deal fully guaranteed at signing, sources say (espn.com)
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That's a huge contract. Let's say the last 2 years are not guaranteed, $117 million. Those would be Jackson's age 29 and 30 contract years. Still in his prime. The Ravens would have a huge signing bonus to amortize over those 5 years, like $60-$70 million. So to cut or trade Jackson at that point, the Ravens would still have over $30 million on their cap. For a player that's not playing for them. Very unlikely that would occur. It is very likely that Jackson would play the 5 years and get the entire $250 million. So why not guarantee it?

Precedent. I don't think these teams have a problem guaranteeing their franchise QBs the full contracts. Those guys are going to get paid. But then LTs may want their contracts guaranteed. And the star diva WRs want theirs. What about the Pro Bowl edge rushers? Will some owners break, and start guaranteeing these deals? Suddenly, cash out of pocket skyrockets.

It's not that the total amount that goes up. The revenue sharing is set by the labor agreement. It's the cash flow. Time value of money tips more in favor of the players than previously. And by keeping the QBs from getting fully guaranteed money, the NFL is nipping that in the bud. By a gentleman's agreement between the owners. The top QBs are getting their money. This is about suppressing everyone else.
 
Lucky said:
Let's stipulate that this article is correct. Jackson declined a 5 year, $250 million contract with $133 million guaranteed.

That's a huge contract. Let's say the last 2 years are not guaranteed, $117 million. Those would be Jackson's age 29 and 30 contract years. Still in his prime. The Ravens would have a huge signing bonus to amortize over those 5 years, like $60-$70 million. So to cut or trade Jackson at that point, the Ravens would still have over $30 million on their cap. For a player that's not playing for them. Very unlikely that would occur. It is very likely that Jackson would play the 5 years and get the entire $250 million. So why not guarantee it?

Precedent. I don't think these teams have a problem guaranteeing their franchise QBs the full contracts. Those guys are going to get paid. But then LTs may want their contracts guaranteed. And the star diva WRs want theirs. What about the Pro Bowl edge rushers? Will some owners break, and start guaranteeing these deals? Suddenly, cash out of pocket skyrockets.

It's not that the total amount that goes up. The revenue sharing is set by the labor agreement. It's the cash flow. Time value of money tips more in favor of the players than previously. And by keeping the QBs from getting fully guaranteed money, the NFL is nipping that in the bud. By a gentleman's agreement between the owners. The top QBs are getting their money. This is about suppressing everyone else.
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I don't think the owners and GMs not signing Kaepernick at the beginning of his ostracism was collusion. I just think that it was a bunch of teams that didn't want to deal with the media and PR circus that would have come with him. And so a fairly talented QB in his prime was put out to pasture.

I don't think that Joe Burrow not getting a fully guaranteed contract is going to prove collusion. I don't think everyone doing what is in their best interests without speaking about it rises to the level of collusion.

The owners know and have admitted that they don't have a ton of self-control. That's why they instituted the salary cap and especially the rookie salary cap, to protect themselves from their more base desires.

The Browns have attacked the concept of fully guaranteed contracts by giving out the first. Eventually, some other team will probably do the same. And once that starts, it will become an avalanche. But right now, no. I don't see it happening and I don't see it happening very soon.

Lamar Jackson has overplayed his hand and I think he's either going to back off his demands or he's going to end up like a Kaepernick. Just a guy no owner or GM is going to touch, for admittedly very different reasons.
 
The Pencil Neck said:
Lamar Jackson has overplayed his hand and I think he's either going to back off his demands or he's going to end up like a Kaepernick. Just a guy no owner or GM is going to touch, for admittedly very different reasons.
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Colin Kaepernick was never on the same level as Lamar Jackson. Kaepernick overplayed his hand. Jackson will get paid, eventually.
 
Mr teX said:
To your point about the Browns being out of it until they weren’t…..we also know there were other teams in the mix for DW4 services as well..Namely Blank and the Falcons…which is why his comments recently about Lamar’s “style of play” & games misses being a concern is 2-faced as hell. Wasn’t worried about style of play when he was pursing DW4 just last year…..even tho he himself tore his ACL his rookie year and missed 9 games..even tho his style of play saw him in the top 5 in terms of qb hits every year.

Its pure revisionist history to suggest it was just “the dumb Haslams” & the Browns who ponied up.
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Watson missed 9 games his rookie year. Jackson missed 5 games in 2021 and 6 in 2022, both at the end of the season. Now he wants over 200 million guaranteed.
 
Lucky said:
Let's stipulate that this article is correct. Jackson declined a 5 year, $250 million contract with $133 million guaranteed.



That's a huge contract. Let's say the last 2 years are not guaranteed, $117 million. Those would be Jackson's age 29 and 30 contract years. Still in his prime. The Ravens would have a huge signing bonus to amortize over those 5 years, like $60-$70 million. So to cut or trade Jackson at that point, the Ravens would still have over $30 million on their cap. For a player that's not playing for them. Very unlikely that would occur. It is very likely that Jackson would play the 5 years and get the entire $250 million. So why not guarantee it?

Precedent. I don't think these teams have a problem guaranteeing their franchise QBs the full contracts. Those guys are going to get paid. But then LTs may want their contracts guaranteed. And the star diva WRs want theirs. What about the Pro Bowl edge rushers? Will some owners break, and start guaranteeing these deals? Suddenly, cash out of pocket skyrockets.

It's not that the total amount that goes up. The revenue sharing is set by the labor agreement. It's the cash flow. Time value of money tips more in favor of the players than previously. And by keeping the QBs from getting fully guaranteed money, the NFL is nipping that in the bud. By a gentleman's agreement between the owners. The top QBs are getting their money. This is about suppressing everyone else.
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One thing that could change it perhaps, is if the guaranteed money didn't have to be put in escrow.
 
Mr teX said:
its collusion when u have specific qb needy teams coming out publicly with B.S. excuses for why they’re not interested when they could’ve just said nothing at all…

Its collusion when the team leaks contract details that are on the table to try to make u look bad for turning down “their” contract while privately telling Lamar to keep the talks & negotiations quiet.

Its collusion & 2-faced when you encourage & praise his style of play for 5 years..but hold it against him when its time to pay up.

All of that stuff is aimed at controlling public narrative to once again strong arm him into signing a deal they think is fair.
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For it to be collusion, all of the GMs and owners have to come together and decide that they won't negotiate with Lamar Jackson. Nothing you've said above hints at collusion to me. The closest you've come to collusion is qb needy teams saying they don't want to negotiate with Jackson, and that's not close.

Most offensive coordinators aren't going to want a Lamar Jackson or a Kyler Murray because of their style of play. I don't want him in a Texan's uni, especially for the price tag he's got.

What I see is a guy who overvalued himself, not collusion.
 
Xopher said:
Watson missed 9 games his rookie year. Jackson missed 5 games in 2021 and 6 in 2022, both at the end of the season. Now he wants over 200 million guaranteed.
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missed games are missed games. Isn’t that how tge Ravens are looking at it? Furthermore, that torn ACL was his 2nd AND he missed a whole damn season for off field crap before signing his 230 million guaranteed.

Bottom line, there’s just no credible leg the Ravens and the other NFL owners can stand on to say this isn’t collusion.
 
The Pencil Neck said:
For it to be collusion, all of the GMs and owners have to come together and decide that they won't negotiate with Lamar Jackson. Nothing you've said above hints at collusion to me. The closest you've come to collusion is qb needy teams saying they don't want to negotiate with Jackson, and that's not close.

Most offensive coordinators aren't going to want a Lamar Jackson or a Kyler Murray because of their style of play. I don't want him in a Texan's uni, especially for the price tag he's got.

What I see is a guy who overvalued himself, not collusion.
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If u don’t believe this is collusion by NFL owners..then you must also believe that teams don’t talk shop with players and their agents before the “legal” tampering period.

You must also believe that they didn’t collude to keep Kaepernick out of the league after they settled the lawsuit…in your world, there were 32 starting qbs and 60 ish qbs total that were better and deserved roster spots over him…

You probably also believe that the owners didnt purposely hide over 100 million from players during the last collective bargaining agreement…before the players union caught them.

Long history of these dudes colluding together to achieve THEIR greater good. Dont think there’s any question their colluding against Lamar…but b/c its so hard to prove, they’ll likely continue to get away with it.
 
Mr teX said:
If u don’t believe this is collusion by NFL owners..then you must also believe that teams don’t talk shop with players and their agents before the “legal” tampering period.

You must also believe that they didn’t collude to keep Kaepernick out of the league after they settled the lawsuit…in your world, there were 32 starting qbs and 60 ish qbs total that were better and deserved roster spots over him…

You probably also believe that the owners didnt purposely hide over 100 million from players during the last collective bargaining agreement…before the players union caught them.

Long history of these dudes colluding together to achieve THEIR greater good. Dont think there’s any question their colluding against Lamar…but b/c its so hard to prove, they’ll likely continue to get away with it.
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I've said straight up that I don't think there was collusion in the Kaepernick case. Because there didn't have to be. There didn't have to be 60 qbs that were better than he was.

Can you imagine the public backlash if we would have signed him to be our QB? The GMs and owners definitely could. I remember a lot of people on various Texan's boards ready to cancel their season tickets and stop watching football if he was let back into the league, and I don't think that was restricted to the Texans' fandom. They didn't collude against him. Each team simply came to the same business decision and refused to risk the ire of their fandom.

We've got cases every year where players overvalue themselves. I mean, look at Dalton Schultz. He was offered 3 years 36 million and he turned it down because he thought he could get more elsewhere. He was wrong and he ended up settling for 1 year deal that will only reach 9 million if he hits his incentives. Was that collusion by the NFL? Nope.

With that said, it's not that I think the NFL owners don't try to pull fast ones when the can. The whole Salary Cap concept is institutionalized collusion. If you want to scream about collusion, then point to that. I'd be with you on that.

But some guy not getting paid what he thinks he's worth or trying to dictate certain terms in the contract and having them rejected? Nah. That's just overestimating ones market value.
 
Mr teX said:
He kinda already did that by playing out the 5th year option on his rookie deal….a deal he VASTLY outperformed after his 2019 MVP year. And as you know most times emerging star players usually get their extensions in the4th year on their rookie deals; virtually unheard of for them to play on their 5th year options…yet here we are.
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...and if Jackson had representation worth a damn no doubt he would've got a extension going into his 5th year.. but he doesn't have good representation so here we are. Who's fault is that?
 
Carr Bombed said:
...and if Jackson had representation worth a damn no doubt he would've got a extension going into his 5th year.. but he doesn't have good representation so here we are. Who's fault is that?
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apparently he’s a good enough representation for himself to get north of 140 million offered to him by the Ravens…i think that’s doing a pretty good job of representing yourself don’t u?

Agents are only there to shield u away from all of the negativity owners and FO’s throw at their client during negotiations…u know, all the crap the Ravens front office has been leaking to control the narrative. Aside from that, agents don’t control the owners’ purse string…especially for a player they supposedly want.
 
The Pencil Neck said:
I've said straight up that I don't think there was collusion in the Kaepernick case. Because there didn't have to be. There didn't have to be 60 qbs that were better than he was.

Can you imagine the public backlash if we would have signed him to be our QB? The GMs and owners definitely could. I remember a lot of people on various Texan's boards ready to cancel their season tickets and stop watching football if he was let back into the league, and I don't think that was restricted to the Texans' fandom. They didn't collude against him. Each team simply came to the same business decision and refused to risk the ire of their fandom.

We've got cases every year where players overvalue themselves. I mean, look at Dalton Schultz. He was offered 3 years 36 million and he turned it down because he thought he could get more elsewhere. He was wrong and he ended up settling for 1 year deal that will only reach 9 million if he hits his incentives. Was that collusion by the NFL? Nope.

With that said, it's not that I think the NFL owners don't try to pull fast ones when the can. The whole Salary Cap concept is institutionalized collusion. If you want to scream about collusion, then point to that. I'd be with you on that.

But some guy not getting paid what he thinks he's worth or trying to dictate certain terms in the contract and having them rejected? Nah. That's just overestimating ones market value.
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lol, those weren’t good business decisions if your qb play stunk up the joint. Most of those teams who could’ve used him wound up spending that money on another lesser talented qbs..or players period. hell alot of them still need a qb right now today.

& It wasnt a matter of him “overvaluing” HIS worth…it was just a matter of him getting on someone’s roster….and that shouldn’t have been TOO hard for a 29 year old guy who a few years prior had nearly nearly won a SB for the 49ers. & You’re absolutely out of your mind if you believe that the main reason Kaepernick never played again is b/c the owners were thinking about their fans. Lol, If that were truly the case, DW4’s not in the league right now & ticket prices wouldn’t be rising every year.

Bottom line is they colluded to keep him out. And as soon as a teams’ HC maybe THOUGHT about bringing him in…..teams like Baltimore & Seattle just to name a few, those thoughts quickly went up in smoke….with mo real apparent reasoning….just vanished.

Now contrast that with what happened with Vick after he got out of jail…Manning after sitting out a full year with neck issues..where noone even knew if he could throw a ball again. DW4 with all the civil suits…shits night and day how those situations evolved and finished out vs how what happened with Kaep.

In both this situation and the Kaep situation, the relative silence & reasoning around them say more about what’s actually happening than what everyone knows. All you hear right now from the media is heavily slanted against Lamar…you don’t here anything regarding how the Ravens have somewhat screwed the pooch by pissing their franchise qb off so much that he had to out them and how they’re double dealing.
 
Mr teX said:
All you hear right now from the media is heavily slanted against Lamar…you don’t here anything regarding how the Ravens have somewhat screwed the pooch by pissing their franchise qb off so much that he had to out them and how they’re double dealing.
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The media that you are paying attention to
 
Xopher said:
One thing that could change it perhaps, is if the guaranteed money didn't have to be put in escrow.
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That could be waived off at any league meeting. It's only still in place as an excuse to not give guaranteed contracts. It's silly, as if multi $billion franchises will go under and not be able to meet obligations.
 
Mr teX said:
apparently he’s a good enough representation for himself to get north of 140 million offered to him by the Ravens…i think that’s doing a pretty good job of representing yourself don’t u?

Agents are only there to shield u away from all of the negativity owners and FO’s throw at their client during negotiations…u know, all the crap the Ravens front office has been leaking to control the narrative. Aside from that, agents don’t control the owners’ purse string…especially for a player they supposedly want.
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Does he have a contract? Nope. Getting a contract offer and having a signed contract are two separate things. Agents aren't only there to shield their clients. They know the business and have relationships within the business. They also know the market and can help create/dictate a market for their client's services. All the money Lamar thinks he saved by not hiring a agent he's already lost.

The irony in all of this is Lamar wants a Watson type contact representing himself in contract negotiations.. When there's no way in hell Watson would've ever received the contract he did without the representation of his agent.

You want to know the value of a sports agent.. "NFL QB facing 2 dozen sexual assault allegations signs 5 year 230 million dollar fully guaranteed contract.".
 
Despite his statements otherwise, I think Arthur Blank and the Falcons are a good bet to land LJ.
Blank stated he is concerned how long Jackson can play his style of game.

I see this as Blank trying to publicly negotiate out of a fully guaranteed contract.

The Falcons were in the mix for towel boy, who would have cost more draft capital, so I don't think draft picks are an issue for them.
If they can talk Jackson down from a fully guaranteed contract I think they are actually the front runner for a trade.
Although Jackson staying with Baltimore might be the most likely outcome.
 
Carr Bombed said:
Does he have a contract? Nope. Getting a contract offer and having a signed contract are two separate things. Agents aren't only there to shield their clients. They know the business and have relationships within the business. They also know the market and can help create/dictate a market for their client's services. All the money Lamar thinks he saved by not hiring a agent he's already lost.

The irony in all of this is Lamar wants a Watson type contact representing himself in contract negotiations.. When there's no way in hell Watson would've ever received the contract he did without the representation of his agent.

You want to know the value of a sports agent.. "NFL QB facing 2 dozen sexual assault allegations signs 5 year 230 million dollar fully guaranteed contract.".
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You think these players don’t know the business or their worth? Cmon dude.

You place too much faith in agents. Clowney’s agent couldn’t help him land the type of deal he was looking for with us so he fired him, got another agent and still didn’t get the contract he was looking for. Lotta help he got there from the negotiating skills and experience of 2 seasoned agents.

The agent’s main job for top level guys…especially for guys like Lamar is shielding the player away from all that FO negative talk…All they really care about is their client being happy with the deal he does wind up signing. Even still, THEY ONLY DO WHAT THEIR CLIENT TELLS THEM TO DO. Furthermore The bigger the client the easier their job is in terms of “negotiating” usually is b/c they tend to have more leverage. What you’re speaking of really only applies to guys who have issues..whether its serious injury concerns or legal troubles and middling guys who switch teams every few years anyway and need to find a market for their services. Anyway, NONE of those are applicable here and as stated, he’s done a damn good job negotiating a 100 million plus contract for himself already & having an agent wasn’t going to convince him to sign the offer Baltimore has already put forward if he wasn’t happy with it..period.
 
michaelm said:
Despite his statements otherwise, I think Arthur Blank and the Falcons are a good bet to land LJ.
Blank stated he is concerned how long Jackson can play his style of game.

I see this as Blank trying to publicly negotiate out of a fully guaranteed contract.

The Falcons were in the mix for towel boy, who would have cost more draft capital, so I don't think draft picks are an issue for them.
If they can talk Jackson down from a fully guaranteed contract I think they are actually the front runner for a trade.
Although Jackson staying with Baltimore might be the most likely outcome.
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i think the Ravens and LJ are done. The relationship is irreparably damaged at this point with the way the FO has handled him and they’re gonna have to trade him at some point once he signs that NE franchise tag..if he signs it….which was another F you by the FO to him considering the NE franchise tag is projected to be about 12 million dollars less than the exclusive franchise tag that they could’ve extended to him.

If he signs it, He’ll have to start the season with them this year, but depending on how team morale is & the distraction that causes, they may need to move him before the trade deadline.
 
Mr teX said:
You think these players don’t know the business or their worth? Cmon dude.

You place too much faith in agents. Clowney’s agent couldn’t help him land the type of deal he was looking for with us so he fired him, got another agent and still didn’t get the contract he was looking for. Lotta help he got there from the negotiating skills and experience of 2 seasoned agents.

The agent’s main job for top level guys…especially for guys like Lamar is shielding the player away from all that FO negative talk…All they really care about is their client being happy with the deal he does wind up signing. Even still, THEY ONLY DO WHAT THEIR CLIENT TELLS THEM TO DO. Furthermore The bigger the client the easier their job is in terms of “negotiating” usually is b/c they tend to have more leverage. What you’re speaking of really only applies to guys who have issues..whether its serious injury concerns or legal troubles and middling guys who switch teams every few years anyway and need to find a market for their services. Anyway, NONE of those are applicable here and as stated, he’s done a damn good job negotiating a 100 million plus contract for himself already & having an agent wasn’t going to convince him to sign the offer Baltimore has already put forward if he wasn’t happy with it..period.
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Again you move the goalposts..

However.. Yes I think it's obvious some players don't know their value or market value. At this point I think that's pretty obvious. Case in point.. Lamar Jackson.
 
Carr Bombed said:
Again you move the goalposts..

However.. Yes I think it's obvious some players don't know their value or market value. At this point I think that's pretty obvious. Case in point.. Lamar Jackson.
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Well you’d be wrong..every one of the guys on Lamar’s level know their market value…thats why their respective teams rarely let them hit FA..just like the Ravens aren’t by restricting him..

its not moving the goal posts, its just acknowledging the difference between a 1st tier FA and a 3rd tier one.
 
The1ApplePie said:
100% collusion by the owners. They are obviously trying to walk back the Browns' colossal screw up
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It’s only collusion if they actively discuss & decide against Jackson.

but this… just like they let the Browns hang themselves, I don’t think they’d stop another team castrating themselves.

Common sense says don’t do thaStupidSht.
 
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