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Tell Me Why Patrick Mahomes is not the Solution!

WolverineFan said:
Trubisky is absolutely a gamble. The people who like him just kind of gloss over the fact that he only started 1 year and spent 2 years on the bench behind a guy who was essentially a RB.
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He wouldn't pass the Parcell's test for sure .

Having said that , he didn't quit or transfer . That's a big plus for him IMO because the road is littered with guys who leave and don't work their way back . There's one guy named Brady who stuck it out .
 
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Honoring Earl 34 said:
He wouldn't pass the Parcell's test for sure .

Having said that , he didn't quit or transfer . That's a big plus for him IMO because the road is littered with guys who leave and don't work their way back . There's one guy named Brady who stuck it out .
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You mean like Tom Savage in college (transferred)?
 
Honoring Earl 34 said:
Yup ... got his feelings hurt , left , Arizona hires an option coach , leaves and claws his way back .
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Players change minds about schools frequently due to coaching. What is wrong with going to a school that offers better opportunity to use skills and learn what helps in pursuit of NFL?
 
WolverineFan said:
Trubisky is absolutely a gamble. The people who like him just kind of gloss over the fact that he only started 1 year and spent 2 years on the bench behind a guy who was essentially a RB.
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To be fair, Williams had already established himself as an up and coming player the year that Trubisky redshirted. That was Williams first year as the starter. After that, Williams improved his completion percentage but really broke out as a runner. It was working, I don't think you could expect NC to bench Williams for Trubisky at that point. The Tarheels did win the ACC when Williams was a senior.

I don't hold why Trubisky sat on the bench against him, but the result being that he is inexperienced definitely needs to weigh in to the evaluation. Also, the scheme itself plays a factor in the numbers of both Williams and Trubisky, but nowadays that's true for pretty much any good team.
 
badboy said:
Players change minds about schools frequently due to coaching. What is wrong with going to a school that offers better opportunity to use skills and learn what helps in pursuit of NFL?
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Troy Aikman left Oklahoma after he broke his leg and they went back to the option . Flacco left Pitt after he didn't win the job . I would rather have a QB stick it out through adversity .
 
Honoring Earl 34 said:
Troy Aikman left Oklahoma after he broke his leg and they went back to the option . Flacco left Pitt after he didn't win the job . I would rather have a QB stick it out through adversity .
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So you would rather have seen HOF Aikman sit the bench for the rest of his career at OU after Switzer wins a national title with the option?

The story goes that Switzer personally called Donahue at UCLA and sold him on Aikman because he knew he was a special kid but there was no way he was moving away from the option.
 
Honoring Earl 34 said:
Troy Aikman left Oklahoma after he broke his leg and they went back to the option . Flacco left Pitt after he didn't win the job . I would rather have a QB stick it out through adversity .
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I'd rather have a QB who wants to play so badly that he'll switch schools to do it.
Oh and making good decisions is another good quality for a QB. "Sticking it out" wouldn't have been a good decision in these cases.
 
Thing is we forget that football is their job and if a rival company came to you and said we'll give you everything you've got now plus a promotion and pay raise would you "stick it out" or would you sign on the dotted line.

Ultimately even on the college level coaches do what best for the team and not the player because winning is their job no matter who they do it with. At the NFL level it's even more so because then you have owners and GMs in the mix. Look at the recent Romo drama, if JJ had been doing what's best for Romo he would have cut him on day one and let him have his pick of where he wanted to go, but he had a responsibility to the team as a whole to try and get something.

This idea of sticking it out is nice in theory and makes for a great movie but it doesn't hold up when reality crashes down on it. Best for players and teams if both understand that the other is going to do what is best for them, that way there is no misunderstanding from day one.
 
Mangler said:
Only a dumbass would have "stuck it out."
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Aikman left because he became obsolete . That's a bit different than I can't beat the other guy out so I'm gone .

Montana entered ND in 1974 but didn't start until 1977 .

Brady got screwed around by the whole Drew Henson deal but stayed .

Cassell lasted longer than Matt Leinart as a pro .

Staubach faced some adversity .

Favre didn't get a bite from a college because he ran the option in HS .

Rogers went the junior college route because he was small .

We all know the Kurt Warner story .

Johnny Unitas was cut by the Steelers and was 4th string in his first camp and had to work construction and play semi pro until he could get a tryout with the Colts .

Well that's the Big 3 in QBs . Brady , Montana , and Unitas biggest asset wasn't their golden arms , it was their dogged determination .
 
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Honoring Earl 34 said:
Aikman left because he became obsolete . That's a bit different than I can't beat the other guy out so I'm gone .

Montana entered ND in 1974 but didn't start until 1977 .

Brady got screwed around by the whole Drew Henson deal but stayed .

Cassell lasted longer than Matt Leinart as a pro .

Staubach faced some adversity .

Favre didn't get a bite from a college because he ran the option in HS .

Rogers went the junior college route because he was small .

We all know the Kurt Warner story .

Johnny Unitas was cut by the Steelers and was 4th string in his first camp and had to work construction and play semi pro until he could get a tryout with the Colts .

Well that's the Big 3 in QBs . Brady , Montana , and Unitas biggest asset wasn't their golden arms , it was their dogged determination .
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Honest question: What was your original point? Were you supporting Trubisky or dissing him? It's not like he switched schools or something. He backed up Williams for two years (after being redshirted is first year) so he didn't quit the team.

I'm betting someone told him this was his time because he might not look as good compared to next years top QB prospects so he jumped into the draft this year when his 'stock' would be relatively high.
 
ObsiWan said:
Honest question: What was your original point? Were you supporting Trubisky or dissing him? It's not like he switched schools or something. He backed up Williams for two years (after being redshirted is first year) so he didn't quit the team.

I'm betting someone told him this was his time because he might not look as good compared to next years top QB prospects so he jumped into the draft this year when his 'stock' would be relatively high.
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My original points was giving Trubisky kudos for staying and winning the job . He could have blamed others and transferred but he stayed .

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...=drive_web&usp=sheets_home&ths=true&sle=true#


1
Name School Total Film Grade Age at Draft Hand Size Ball Velocity Shuttle Height Weight Character Medical
2
Mitch Trubisky North Carolina 82 22 9.5 55 4.25 6021 222
3
Pat Mahomes Texas Tech 79 21 9.25 60 4.08 6020 225
4
DeShaun Watson Clemson 79 21 9.75 49 4.31 6024 221 No
5
DeShone Kizer Notre Dame 79 22 9.875 56 4.53 6042 233
6
Nathan Peterman Pittsburgh 74 22 9.825 53 4.31 6021 226
7
Brad Kaaya Miami 72 21 9.75 53 -- 6040 214
8
Davis Webb Cal 70 22 9.25 59 4.21 6050 229
9
Jerod Evans Virginia Tech 70 23 9.375 55 4.41 6023 232
10
Josh Dobbs Tennessee 70 22 9.25 4.31 6032 216
11
Chad Kelly Ole Miss 68 23 9.25 -- 6015 224 Yes Yes
12
CJ Beathard Iowa 23 9.375 -- 6023 219
13
Sefo Liufau Colorado 10.75 4.45 6030 232 No Yes
14
Alek Torgersen Penn 9.25 -- 6022 218
15
Trevor Knight Texas A&M Pos chg 23 9.875 4.14 6010 219
16
Zach Terrell W. Michigan 23 9.625 -- 6010 206
17
Cooper Rush C. Michigan 9.125 4.47 6030 228
18
Antonio Pipkin Tiffin 10 -- 6007 225
19
Seth Russell Baylor 9.625 -- 6030 213
20
Mitch Leidner Minnesota Pos chg 10 4.25 6030 226
21
Gunner Kiel Cincinatti 9.5 -- 6031 218
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Here's Bill Parcell's formula .

  • He must be a senior, because you need time and maturity to develop into a good professional quarterback.
  • He must be a graduate, because you want someone who takes his responsibilities seriously.
  • He must be a three-year starter, because you need to make sure his success wasn’t ephemeral and that he has lived as "the guy" for some period of time.
  • He must have at least 23 wins, because the big passing numbers must come in the context of winning games.
 
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Honoring Earl 34 said:
Aikman left because he became obsolete . That's a bit different than I can't beat the other guy out so I'm gone .

Montana entered ND in 1974 but didn't start until 1977 .

Brady got screwed around by the whole Drew Henson deal but stayed .

Cassell lasted longer than Matt Leinart as a pro .

Staubach faced some adversity .

Favre didn't get a bite from a college because he ran the option in HS .

Rogers went the junior college route because he was small .

We all know the Kurt Warner story .

Johnny Unitas was cut by the Steelers and was 4th string in his first camp and had to work construction and play semi pro until he could get a tryout with the Colts .

Well that's the Big 3 in QBs . Brady , Montana , and Unitas biggest asset wasn't their golden arms , it was their dogged determination .
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no no no. aikman had concussions, not obsolete. he could have played another 10 yrs. he was that good.
 
ObsiWan said:
I won't argue against your point.
:D
Seriously, when ARE we going to see a starter get back-to-back years in this offense?? Others have said (not in this thread obviously) that many good-to-elite QBs struggled during their first year. Yet, in this "complex" offense no QB has had two consecutive years as the starter. Why not?
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Darn good question. Lol maybe when we get another head coach with a more simple offensive scheme.
 
steelbtexan said:
1. Jr QB's = Agreed
2. System = Agreed
3. Mechanics = Can be worked on/He was very accurate despite these bad mechanics.
4. One read = system QB = same thing point #2
5. Tight window throws= I have no doubt with his accuracy/arm strength that he can make all of the tight window NFL throws. Will he force some throws? yes all rookie QB's do, it's part of the learning/growing process.
6. There was a lot of pressure on Mahomes to try and make plays every time the offense had the ball, because Tx Tech had the worst defense in the NCAA and I believe that's why he forced some throws trying to make plays.
7. His measurements were disappointing to me. I expected him to be 6'3 with atleast 10 in hands.

In short at Mahomes best he could become a cross between Stafford/Wilson. At worst he could become a lesser version of Bortles/Kap. IMHO
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All QB'S forces some throws not just rookies.

Agree on the rest.
 
mussop said:
I find this hard to believe. He seems like the exact opposite of what ob wants in a QB.
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Mahomes is the opposite of everything they kept passing on ....


I'd be thrilled if they could find a way to get Mahomes , I really think they have to move up to get him , how far is the question.

Cant see San Fran or Chicago taking a QB at 2-3 and passing up premium talent at other spots. Only teams that concern me is the Jets @6 & Cleveland @12 , hoping they take Trubisky & Watson in those spots.

What the Texans have to plan for is SF & Chicago moving up from the top of the second round to 19-24 , just in front of the Texans. If Mahomes got past 12 I'd be on the phone with Tampa Bay trying to get to 19 with the condition he's still there when that pick comes up. I'm not getting screwed like they did with Bridgewater and JimmyG.


What would it take to move from 25-19 ??
 
Corrosion said:
What would it take to move from 25-19 ??
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If no one else is bidding and the team isn't high on anyone left on the board, probably a 3rd. If other teams are bidding, maybe a 2nd at worst.

If you recall, in 2008 when the Ravens traded up from 26 to 18 to get Flacco, the Texans were given a 3rd and a 6th. We drafted Steve Slaton and Dominique Barber with those picks.
 
OB reportedly loves Mahomes.

Houston Texans head coach Bill O'Brien is reportedly very high on Texas Tech’s Patrick Mahomes, according to Tom Pelissero of USA Today.

"A lot of BS flies this time of year, but file this away: One NFL coach who’s done homework on all the top QBs told me the word is O’Brien absolutely loves the cannon-armed Mahomes," Pelissero wrote. "O’Brien wouldn’t be alone—based on conversations I’ve had, it wouldn’t be a surprise if Mahomes is one of the first two quarterbacks taken."
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amazing80 said:
Must mean we are trading for Aj McCaron. lol seriously though, trust nothing this time of year.
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I'm going for him wanting a run on QBs so teams will trade up and the guy they really want falls . In other words Savage , Weeden , and ? as your QB . The player Bill probably covets is guy like OJ Howard who they dont make many like .
 
badboy said:
so head coach OBrien whom all knows says nothing about anything concerning his team lets all know he "absolutely loves" Mahomes?
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The Texans fan base is so used to the Smith leak machine, they don't realize that this is not the rule for good teams. Good teams and good HCs tend to stay very mum, letting helter skelter speculation confuse the competition more thoroughly. Good functional teams supply their FO and HC with free pairs of Depends as part of their orientation.
 
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Mahomes screams Kyle Boller to me. I just don't see the love he gets here. We already had a big arm QB with terrible mechanics. Hopefully Mahomes doesn't also have skittles for brains.
 
badboy said:
so head coach OBrien whom all knows says nothing about anything concerning his team lets all know he "absolutely loves" Mahomes?
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Song by Bill O'Brien .

Me and Pat Mahomes
We got a thing goin'on
We both know that it's wrong
But that arm is much too strong
To let it go now

I watch film every day at the same cafe
Six-thirty and McNair knows I'll be there
watching throws , making all kinds of plans
While the juke box plays Football time in Houston .

Me and Pat Mahomes
We got a thing goin'on
We both know that it's wrong
But that arm is much too strong
To let it go now

We gotta be extra careful
That do we don't build our hopes up too high
Because Rick has his own obligations
And so, and so, do I

Me and Pat Mahomes
We got a thing goin'on
We both know that it's wrong
But that arm is much too strong
To let it go now
 
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Because he has only been in college in for 3 years and history has been clear that QBs who have only been in college for three years have a very high degree of failure in the NFL.
 
PapaL said:
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His negatives pointed out here are what make me think he's going to look like Case Keenum early in his career where he gets into some trouble with his improvisation. But to counter the negatives, he is remarkably accurate even while on the move and improvising. I randomly selected a couple of his full games on YouTube and in each game he literally only had 2 or 3 poorly thrown balls despite the bad footwork. It was throw after throw of practically perfectly placed balls and with touch. If he finds the right coach that is patient and can bring him along, I think he's going to be one of the better qbs in the league down the road - - I'm just not sure that BOB is that coach.
 
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CloakNNNdagger said:
The Texans fan base is so used to the Smith leak machine, they don't realize that this is not the rule for good teams. Good teams and good HCs tend to stay very mum, letting helter skelter speculation confuse the competition more thoroughly. Good functional teams supply their FO and HC with free pairs of Depends as part of their orientation.
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yep reporters keep asking same question 15 ways hoping to get answer they want or a "slip" and that does not apply only to sports.
 
ObsiWan said:
this falls into the "from a source who wishes to remain un-named" file.
which is often dead wrong.
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remember the "sources" dialog we were trapped in the last season Andre Johnson was here? IIRC it was Mussop that offered info about a source that AJ was upset. Everyone had their own source..mine were best because I made them up.
 
Honoring Earl 34 said:
Song by Bill O'Brien .

Me and Pat Mahomes
We got a thing goin'on
We both know that it's wrong
But that arm is much too strong
To let it go now

I watch film every day at the same cafe
Six-thirty and McNair knows I'll be there
watching throws , making all kinds of plans
While the juke box plays Football time in Houston .

Me and Pat Mahomes
We got a thing goin'on
We both know that it's wrong
But that arm is much too strong
To let it go now

We gotta be extra careful
That do we don't build our hopes up too high
Because Rick has his own obligations
And so, and so, do I

Me and Pat Mahomes
We got a thing goin'on
We both know that it's wrong
But that arm is much too strong
To let it go now
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Sir that is great! That was a huge song too uh..slow dance to...:peek:
 
badboy said:
Sir that is great! That was a huge song too uh..slow dance to...:peek:
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Cool 92.5 in Beaumont is my favorite station around . I spent 3 months last summer , at a plant on the Sabine , that was flooded in March . My favorite thing was going to work hearing " Get down Tonight ", " Take Me in Your Arms " , or " Every 1s a winner " on a Saturday morning . And yes I heard Mrs Jones .
 
"I feel like a lot of coaches like me, but especially coach O'Brien. I think my personality and how real I am, those are things beyond what I can do on the field that he likes," Mahomes said. "It seemed like the way I was answering questions, I think he knew that I knew what was going on. You can tell when coaches have a confidence in you." On Monday, Mahomes was in Houston to meet with Texans' officials. Four other teams have shown strong interest in Mahomes, having scheduled him for both a pre-draft visit and a private workout: the Arizona Cardinals, Chicago Bears, Cleveland Browns and New York Jets. Mahomes said he's met with 21 different teams during the pre-Draft process. He's looking like a first-round probability at this point.
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http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...senses-heightened-interest-from-texans-obrien
 
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