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Tell Me Why Patrick Mahomes is not the Solution!

Honoring Earl 34 said:
Chester Pitts said he thought Carr played because he was good at it and not because he loved it . I think David also had the burden of a clingy parent trying to get his 15 minutes off his boy . This must have been great for the locker room . I'm not sure Carr and Chris Palmer saw eye to eye . Carr had that chicken wing throwing motion and Palmer set up ladders in the throwing lanes to simulate DL . Mittens made a snide remark about that when he joined the Panthers .

I began to wonder about Carr in the second game of his career vs San Diego . He looked like Johnny Manziel did vs the Bengals . The Chargers kept blitzing because the Texans had no answer . It seemed David took the snap and fell down like he had no idea what was happening . I think he had the talent but not work ethic ( except in the gym ) to be a top tier QB .
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Couple years ago Seth Payne validated Pitts and said the same thing. Said Carr was the last one to show up for practice and the first one to leave.
 
DX-TEX said:
Couple years ago Seth Payne validated Pitts and said the same thing. Said Carr was the last one to show up for practice and the first one to leave.
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http://www.espn.com/espn/feature/st...-derek-carr-learn-brother-david-busted-career

David's time in New York provided a crash course on how an elite quarterback prepares. He watched Eli take ownership of the offense as if he were a coach, working late on Mondays and Tuesdays, most players' days off. He watched how game-planning sessions unfolded under quarterbacks coach Mike Sullivan, where questions flew and debates raged. It was everything David had been missing, and he realized that not knowing how to study had stunted his growth as much as leaky offensive lines did. Had he learned early on how to prepare, he says, "it would have been beneficial not only to myself but to the guys around me. Then you take more of an ownership of the team, and you're not just another guy in the locker room. You're a coach on the field. And that makes you a better player."

By the time he learned, it was too late. David wasn't signed after the Giants released him last August. Late in the season, he received an offer to be a backup -- at the exact moment he was at the doctor's office, where he learned that his 2-year-old daughter, Grace, had juvenile diabetes. He decided to be a dad, seemingly at peace with ending his career after 11 years, 65 touchdown passes, 71 interceptions and a 23-56 record as a starter. He spent fall weekends driving 110 familiar miles from Bakersfield to Fresno and watched from the sideline as Derek set 27 school records, breaking many of his own. He stayed up late with Derek after games, breaking down film. And when he began to hear the knocks on his brother -- the reports that ranked the quarterback with "the quickest release in the draft," in the words of one scout, as merely the fifth or sixth best at his position -- it became clear that Derek was paying for David's career.
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thunderkyss said:
It was a different league back then, so the numbers are going to be skewed. But I think David was a much better QB than Derek his first two years. I don't think lack of a mentor hurt him year one.

I think the "club med" where veterans come for there last big payday mentality had set in on Kirby & he wasn't in a position to turn that around. I think he was going through the motions halfway through his third year, & so was every one else.
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Love ya TK and enjoy the back and forth.

But posts like this one makes me take your thoughts on the QB position with a grain of salt. We will never agree on this or probably anything else that has to do with the QB position.
 
So you guys are telling me that you didn't like anything about David Carr from the beginning?

That's fine, if that's what you're saying. But yes, I have a totally different opinion. T
 
beerlover said:
Texans have failed in Franchise QB territory, largely attributable to timing and bad luck. More pressure on O'Brian, it's his job on the line if he can't fill this need. Capers tried and failed, fired. Kubiak tried and failed, fired. Now it's O'Brian on the hot seat.

Good chance his job rests on Tom Savage shoulders? Unless they can hit on a commodity like Dak Prescott in the draft. Overlooked, mid round selection that maybe forced into duty prematurely because of injury (highly likely) to Savage.

So it doesn't have to be a first round guy to get the job done, however Rick may have to forgo his best player mantra & draft most important player. For Bill's sake sooner rather than later.
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Rick isn't going to do much to help BOB this offseason. I mean what has he done so far to make you think Ricky wants to get BOB the help he needs?
 
thunderkyss said:
So you guys are telling me that you didn't like anything about David Carr from the beginning?

That's fine, if that's what you're saying. But yes, I have a totally different opinion. T
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There is a huge gap between liking things about David Carr's early career and saying he was a much better QB than Derek. David never produced anything (stats, leadership, command of offense) approaching Derek year two at any point in his career. The pass friendliness of league grew some but this is not some comparison between 1985 and 2015.
 
Texans have failed in Franchise QB territory, largely attributable to timing and bad luck. More pressure on O'Brian, it's his job on the line if he can't fill this need. Capers tried and failed, fired. Kubiak tried and failed, fired. Now it's O'Brian on the hot seat.

Good chance his job rests on Tom Savage shoulders? Unless they can hit on a commodity like Dak Prescott in the draft. Overlooked, mid round selection that maybe forced into duty prematurely because of injury (highly likely) to Savage.

So it doesn't have to be a first round guy to get the job done, however Rick may have to forgo his best player mantra & draft most important player. For Bill's sake sooner rather than later.
steelbtexan said:
Rick isn't going to do much to help BOB this offseason. I mean what has he done so far to make you think Ricky wants to get BOB the help he needs?
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Because Bob is accountable and Rick is not. Rick has no skin in the game therefore he can give O'Brian what he wants & say it was his call :clown:
 
beerlover said:
Texans have failed in Franchise QB territory, largely attributable to timing and bad luck. More pressure on O'Brian, it's his job on the line if he can't fill this need. Capers tried and failed, fired. Kubiak tried and failed, fired. Now it's O'Brian on the hot seat.

Good chance his job rests on Tom Savage shoulders? Unless they can hit on a commodity like Dak Prescott in the draft. Overlooked, mid round selection that maybe forced into duty prematurely because of injury (highly likely) to Savage.

So it doesn't have to be a first round guy to get the job done, however Rick may have to forgo his best player mantra & draft most important player. For Bill's sake sooner rather than later.


Because Bob is accountable and Rick is not. Rick has no skin in the game therefore he can give O'Brian what he wants & say it was his call :clown:
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But what has Ricky done to help BOB/the on the field product this season?
 
I've read some crazy draft day moves, we'll see what happens, don't want to get my hopes up but adding cap room should pay off down the road. Brian Gaine is actually in charge of pro player personal and Jon Carr College director of scouting along with Rick they form the triad of which O'Brian will form his decisions. They seem to be taking a very cautious and sensible approach leaving room for moves if timing allows. I prefer approach of building from within, but then they did let Bouye walk in free agency along with Simon.
 
thunderkyss said:
So you guys are telling me that you didn't like anything about David Carr from the beginning?

That's fine, if that's what you're saying. But yes, I have a totally different opinion. T
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After the 1st year you don't give up on him . You write it off as growing pains .

Year two I thought it was curious the Texans took Ragone in the 3rd of the 2003 draft . Carr ended up with 9 tds and 13 int and a 69.5 QB rating .

Year 3 is the tale of two seasons . Carr started out well and at one point the Texans were 4-3 . Then it's like the league figured him out and he started stinking . That's the year the fan dumped beer on his wife after the Cleveland game , when the Texans had a shot at an 8-8 record . After this year I had no hope as long as Carr was QB fore he became the dumpoff king . This lasted two more years .

After the 2004 season it should have become evident that Bob Mac got to close to the help .
 
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Reading the last three pages of posts made me start wondering when Patrick Mahomes changed his name to David Carr. Lots of discussion about DC's good and bad points, very little about Mahomes.
 
beerlover said:
He got rid of one of his mistakes, Brock Osweiler. Addition by subtraction, lol
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LOL good one.
and you could say he saved O'Brien from all those embarrassing, "why aren't you starting your multi-megabuck QB" questions by getting rid of Osweiler.
:D
 
beerlover said:
I've read some crazy draft day moves, we'll see what happens, don't want to get my hopes up but adding cap room should pay off down the road. Brian Gaine is actually in charge of pro player personal and Jon Carr College director of scouting along with Rick they form the triad of which O'Brian will form his decisions. They seem to be taking a very cautious and sensible approach leaving room for moves if timing allows. I prefer approach of building from within, but then they did let Bouye walk in free agency along with Simon.
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I think they made Bouye a very fair offer after only one season of being an impact player. Jags overpaid, down the line if he has season after season like the last one then it will look like a good deal but with current information it was over paying.

Basically both teams took a gamble, Texans that last season was mostly a fluke and that Bouye is a solid but not game changing player, Jags that last season is still the new normal for Bouye and he is worth the money.

Is this regard I'll trust the team that has seen him day in and day out in training, locker room and on field game day.

Besides, though I read somewhere that Bouye pulled an Osweiler and didn't even give Texans a chance to match it, could be wrong on that though.
 
TexansSeminole said:
I think we've exhausted just about everything we can say about these guys in the draft. Thursday could not come sooner.
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A lot has changed since we started this thread.

Going in I had Kizer as the top QB prospect and Mahomes wasn't really on my radar because .... he played at TT in that gimmicky offense.


My whole list has been flipped upside down and turned inside out. It a fun process ....


I cant wait for the draft to get here either.


Fell asleep today with the TV on NFL network , woke up and "Texans just traded up with Washington" YES!! ..... Texans select Will Fuller ..... @*&# this is last years draft.
 
Corrosion said:
A lot has changed since we started this thread.

Going in I had Kizer as the top QB prospect and Mahomes wasn't really on my radar because .... he played at TT in that gimmicky offense.

My whole list has been flipped upside down and turned inside out. It a fun process ....
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And this kind of anecdote right here is exactly why I enjoy the draft so much. Watching players, analyzing your teams' roster, and genuinely going where the tape/evals takes you.

I remember watching Peppers ball sometime in Sept/Oct and thinking he was certainly who I wanted for the Texans come April. Fast forward to the here and now and I still like the idea of what he could bring our defense, but he's slid to third on my wishlist behind Mahomes and Ramczyk coming out of nowhere to light it up and be potential answers to huge areas of need. Meanwhile guys like Zach Cunningham, Garett Bolles, and Forrest Lamp have also crashed the party to arrive on the same list with already knowns who like Reuben Foster, Cam Robinson, and Tre'Davious White, who've continued to show their worth throughout the season and the post-silly-season.

And so despite some of the inherent bickering or monotony I still keenly look forward to the knowledge exchange here each December-April and the handful or so opinions that I wouldn't swap for any number of national/blogosphere/hack/mock mumbo jumbo turkeys.

I cant wait for the draft to get here either.
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yup..

giphy.gif
 
I wish they pick one and ride with it. Truthfully, there really is never a good time to draft a qb. Faneca was upset when Big Ben started, the Flacco got his chance because Troy Smith got sick, the list goes on and on. Even the great Tuna passed Matt Ryan for Jake Long and Chad Hence. It's not an exact science, but when you get it right, it can't be measured what it can do for your franchise.
 
hey remember back in 2008 when we traded with the Ravens so they could get their franchise guy? maybe it's time they return the favor for us this year. I'm thinking if their guy it still there at the Ravens pick make a move up, it won't cost as steep as moving further up and guarentees us our guy.
 
From the Milwaukee Journal where they have GMs(I think) and scouts ranking these guys:

1. PATRICK MAHOMES, Texas Tech (6-2, 225, 4.81, 1): Third-year junior with a 13-16 record. "I may be crazy but when I watch his tape, just as a scout, I get excited," one personnel man said. "He’s a guilty pleasure. We all have biases. Going in, Texas Tech, dink, dunk, dink, dunk, this guy cannot translate. I left saying, ‘Love this guy. He’s so much fun.’ He pulls plays out of his (expletive) like you wouldn’t believe. It’s not dink and dunk. He believes in his arm so much that it’s a problem sometimes. He’s not ready right now. I’m not comparing him to Aaron (Rodgers), but that natural sense of making plays when they break down is unusual. Now can he make plays from structure? That’s why he’s not a top-10 pick." Finished with 63.5% completion rate and NFL passer rating of 103.8. Also ran for 820 yards and 22 touchdowns. "He is a great kid and willing to do everything," said another scout. "But he’s playing in this gunslinger spread offense (expletive) that no quarterback has ever succeeded from, really." Father, Pat, compiled a 42-39 record as an MLB pitcher from 1992-’03. Scored 24 on the Wonderlic intelligence test. "He has the best arm of the group but he plays crazy," a third scout said. "I don’t even think ‘gunslinger’ is the right word. He’s reckless. … I remember seeing (Brett) Favre in his bowl game his senior year. In that game he had three or four plays you thought were a little off the wall. Mahomes might have 20 plays in a game where you go, ‘What are you doing?’" Drafted as a pitcher by the Tigers. From Whitehouse, Texas.
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http://www.jsonline.com/story/sport...g-nfl-draft-prospects-quarterbacks/100736988/
 
Corrosion said:
Kinda funny to see everyone get on the Mahomes bandwagon all the sudden ....
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The more I think about it the more I'm reverting back to the beginning of this process. The reason? I don't see OB being here after next year anyway. Bring on the undisciplined Gunslinger. Hopefully that will make them go after a real OC.
 
Corrosion said:
Kinda funny to see everyone get on the Mahomes bandwagon all the sudden ....
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i knew it all along. in fact i was the one who started this thread. i called my shot and now everyone is on the mahomes bandwagon. i was the first to compare him to brett favre now everyone is making this comparison.
 
thetexanator said:
i knew it all along. in fact i was the one who started this thread. i called my shot and now everyone is on the mahomes bandwagon. i was the first to compare him to brett favre now everyone is making this comparison.
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I prefer the Aaron Rodgers comparison.

But yeah it seems all but certain now
 
Which game would you consider Mahommes best game?

Who was the toughest team Mahommes had to face?

Who was the easiest team Mahommes had to face?

Which game would you consider Mahommes best game?
 
thetexanator said:
i knew it all along. in fact i was the one who started this thread. i called my shot and now everyone is on the mahomes bandwagon. i was the first to compare him to brett favre now everyone is making this comparison.
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Yeah you called him early.

I don't really see the comparison to Favre .... other than having the big arm. Favre at least early on relied almost solely on that cannon of an arm , Mahomes has fantastic accuracy , ball placement between the levels of the defense, and use of touch. That's why those TT pass catchers were able to make so much YAC.

He's probably a lot more athletic than Favre too ....


ATXtexanfan said:
I prefer the Aaron Rodgers comparison.

But yeah it seems all but certain now
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I don't want to compare him to either of those guys ..... that's two of the best to ever play the game.
 
Number19 said:
Mahomes and Watson will both be there at 1-25. SF wants Watson real bad, offers their third, 3-66 straight up, and we trade back to 2-34. KC Chiefs take Mahomes at 1-27. We draft OT at 2-34.
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If we had our choice between Watson and Mahomes at 25 and moved back , missing out on both .... Tricky Rick & BoB would get run outa town.
 
Corrosion said:
Kinda funny to see everyone get on the Mahomes bandwagon all the sudden ....
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I wouldn't say I've gotten on the band wagon, I still stand by everything I said. The kid is going to get intercepted a lot as soon as defenses figure out his style. However the biggest thing that has changed for me was Romo retired so now to me it's more important to draft a QB this year and since the odds of my first choice being there are next to none I'll take the lesser of all evils.
 
thetexanator said:
i knew it all along. in fact i was the one who started this thread. i called my shot and now everyone is on the mahomes bandwagon. i was the first to compare him to brett favre now everyone is making this comparison.
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You were the one that started the thread, very true.
Doesn't mean you were the first that was onto him.
Some were talking about Mahomes in the top 3 back in January in the college forum.
 
maverick512000 said:
I wouldn't say I've gotten on the band wagon, I still stand by everything I said. The kid is going to get intercepted a lot as soon as defenses figure out his style. However the biggest thing that has changed for me was Romo retired so now to me it's more important to draft a QB this year and since the odds of my first choice being there are next to none I'll take the lesser of all evils.
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What is it that defenses will key off of his style that will result in so many ints?
 
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Mollywhopper said:
What is it that defenses will key off of his style that will result in so many ints?
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Seems to me from watching the videos he can be forced to move out of the pocket then trust in his gunslinger arm to pass on the move. Working under the idea that his main targets will be Hopkins or the TEs in this situation, Fuller with his speed would most likely be to far down to trust a moving throw to him, not to mention his hands, if I'm the defense I have a fairly good idea of who his target might be.

If you know who a QBs target is it's easy to intercept no matter how good the receiver. That's what happened with Osweiler, defenses knew who he was throwing to because he telegraphed it so much he might as well have held up a damn sign.

This is what I think defenses will figure out until Mahomes figures out how to catch them off guard and not put it where they think he will. Maybe he figures that out quickly maybe it takes awhile, or maybe I'm totally wrong and he runs circles around them. It's just my theory on what I see as his biggest issue in the NFL.
 
maverick512000 said:
Seems to me from watching the videos he can be forced to move out of the pocket then trust in his gunslinger arm to pass on the move. Working under the idea that his main targets will be Hopkins or the TEs in this situation, Fuller with his speed would most likely be to far down to trust a moving throw to him, not to mention his hands, if I'm the defense I have a fairly good idea of who his target might be.

If you know who a QBs target is it's easy to intercept no matter how good the receiver. That's what happened with Osweiler, defenses knew who he was throwing to because he telegraphed it so much he might as well have held up a damn sign.

This is what I think defenses will figure out until Mahomes figures out how to catch them off guard and not put it where they think he will. Maybe he figures that out quickly maybe it takes awhile, or maybe I'm totally wrong and he runs circles around them. It's just my theory on what I see as his biggest issue in the NFL.
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Os had a ridiculously slow delivery that gave defenders time to get into position. Don't see the same with Mahomes. And unlike Watson, not terrible decisions either
 
maverick512000 said:
Seems to me from watching the videos he can be forced to move out of the pocket then trust in his gunslinger arm to pass on the move. Working under the idea that his main targets will be Hopkins or the TEs in this situation, Fuller with his speed would most likely be to far down to trust a moving throw to him, not to mention his hands, if I'm the defense I have a fairly good idea of who his target might be.

If you know who a QBs target is it's easy to intercept no matter how good the receiver. That's what happened with Osweiler, defenses knew who he was throwing to because he telegraphed it so much he might as well have held up a damn sign.

This is what I think defenses will figure out until Mahomes figures out how to catch them off guard and not put it where they think he will. Maybe he figures that out quickly maybe it takes awhile, or maybe I'm totally wrong and he runs circles around them. It's just my theory on what I see as his biggest issue in the NFL.
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Wait, so you're saying he's especially interceptable in comparison to other young qbs because he'll throw on the run out of the pocket?

And that his physical attributes will make him as susceptible to ints as Osweiler's ... because they're somehow comparable?
 
Mollywhopper said:
Wait, so you're saying he's especially interceptable in comparison to other young qbs because he'll throw on the run out of the pocket?

And that his physical attributes will make him as susceptible to ints as Osweiler's ... because they're somehow comparable?
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No that is not what I said at all, try reading it again. I said nothing about comparing him to other young QBs and I sure as hell didn't say he was comparable to Osweiler. Seriously where the hell did you even get that?
 
maverick512000 said:
Seems to me from watching the videos he can be forced to move out of the pocket then trust in his gunslinger arm to pass on the move. Working under the idea that his main targets will be Hopkins or the TEs in this situation, Fuller with his speed would most likely be to far down to trust a moving throw to him, not to mention his hands, if I'm the defense I have a fairly good idea of who his target might be.
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If you think Fuller will be too far down field .... You haven't watched much tape of Mahomes. Dude can fling it 60+ yards with accuracy on the move. There were several times during the year where he threw it 40+ on the run , across his body on target. That's one of the thins he does best .... throw on the move.

Damnit I hope SF doesn't end up with him ... Baby Shanny will wreck shop with this kid.





If you know who a QBs target is it's easy to intercept no matter how good the receiver. That's what happened with Osweiler, defenses knew who he was throwing to because he telegraphed it so much he might as well have held up a damn sign.

This is what I think defenses will figure out until Mahomes figures out how to catch them off guard and not put it where they think he will. Maybe he figures that out quickly maybe it takes awhile, or maybe I'm totally wrong and he runs circles around them. It's just my theory on what I see as his biggest issue in the NFL.
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You cant compare the Blundering Wizard of Os with Mahomes .... One of them is inaccurate , the other is pinpoint accurate. One of them has a gimpy wind up , the other has a very quick release.
If they can give Mahomes the same kind of protection TBWoO got last year .... He'll make his share of rookie mistakes but they will put up a heck of a lot more points.
 
maverick512000 said:
No that is not what I said at all, try reading it again. I said nothing about comparing him to other young QBs and I sure as hell didn't say he was comparable to Osweiler. Seriously where the hell did you even get that?
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So you think this would be a problem with any young qb?

And you made a direct link to this hypothetical issue and Osweiler's. That link was pretty much where the hell I even got that.
 
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He'll get intercepted quite often because he has a tendency to fade and throw off his back foot and it creates inaccuracy. He got away with it alot in college, NFL defenses will take advantage of that. Also, because he threw short most of his career and will need to throw intermediate, in the pocket, which is not something he did consistently. Most of his bigger/intermediate plays are off schedule, on the run. There are plenty of reasons to show that he will struggle unless he changes his game.

People can talk about Watson throwing interceptions but take a look at drafted players from their conferences. The ACC has consistently produced NFL defensive talent in the last 5 years, whereas the Big 12 has historically bad defense. Take a look at the quality of games they played in. Texas Tech didn't beat anyone of note in his time there. He hardly played in a big game. Watson took his team to two national championship games and played in multiple huge games on the road to each. The two guys played in completely different leagues.
 
TexansSeminole said:
He'll get intercepted quite often because he has a tendency to fade and throw off his back foot and it creates inaccuracy. He got away with it alot in college, NFL defenses will take advantage of that. Also, because he threw short most of his career and will need to throw intermediate, in the pocket, which is not something he did consistently. Most of his bigger/intermediate plays are off schedule, on the run. There are plenty of reasons to show that he will struggle unless he changes his game.

People can talk about Watson throwing interceptions but take a look at drafted players from their conferences. The ACC has consistently produced NFL defensive talent in the last 5 years, whereas the Big 12 has historically bad defense. Take a look at the quality of games they played in. Texas Tech didn't beat anyone of note in his time there. He hardly played in a big game. Watson took his team to two national championship games and played in multiple huge games on the road to each. The two guys played in completely different leagues.
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I'm not a fan of either, so not a Mahommes defender, but look at the games where Watson threw multiple picks in the last two years:

Louisville x2, Boston College, Wake Forest, Troy, Florida State, Pittsburgh, Ohio State.

Outside of Ohio State and Florida State, that doesn't seem like a murderer's row.

Doesn't mean he didn't play good in the BCS playoffs. Just pointing out that his INT's aren't going to magically disappear at the pro level just because he went to two title games.
 
maverick512000 said:
I wouldn't say I've gotten on the band wagon, I still stand by everything I said. The kid is going to get intercepted a lot as soon as defenses figure out his style. However the biggest thing that has changed for me was Romo retired so now to me it's more important to draft a QB this year and since the odds of my first choice being there are next to none I'll take the lesser of all evils.
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Hopefully whoever we get will continue to progress & get better every day to mitigate defenses figuring him out.
 
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