Wish to make a one time donation? Make it here.

Tell Me Why Patrick Mahomes is not the Solution!

The kid has everything we need. hes a gunslinger, he can run, he has the size. he will be there at 25 and we might even have to trade up to get him after the predraft workouts. he is the real deal, better than kizer, more proven the trubiski, quicker reads than watson. he is the solution.
 
I like Mahomes a good deal, would love him in the 2nd and not really complain if we scooped him at 25, but saying flat out 'the next ______ HOFer' is a pretty lopsided argument.

The kid has his warts. I think they're workable, but they're there.
tom brady was drafted in the 6th round. if you had a chance to draft tom brady at 25 you would wouldnt you?
 

MistaRed

Rookie
His footwork is horrible. Throws off his back foot alot. Kid needs alot of work and I wouldnt draft before the 3rd round.

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk
 

TexansSeminole

Hall of Fame
The issues that give people pause have been documented in the draft forum. Great arm, but some really poor habits that will get him in alot of trouble if he doesn't fix them. Tons of guys with great arms fail in the NFL.

Just some highlights of what people have said:

Throws off back foot consistently. Fades away alot of the time while throwing. Scared to step into throws when pressured.

Holds ball low consistently. It's obvious as to why this is a problem. Combines that with a tendency to hold the ball longer than needed.

Off-schedule with the offense.

Throws up alot of prayers.
 

DocBar

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
tom brady was drafted in the 6th round. if you had a chance to draft tom brady at 25 you would wouldnt you?
The entire NFL passed on Brady an average of 6.6 times. Very stupid argument. Gus wasn't stupid. Change your avatar immediately, good sir!!! :kitten: on the last part.
 

powda

You forgot the briefcase!
Plays to reckless. As fun as that might be to watch, i think ob wants someone more disciplined.
 

Mangler

Veteran
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2017/profiles/patrick-mahomes?id=2558125

His weak areas are why many hesitate. I mocked him in 2nd round for Houston.
I remember when the experts had Dak Prescott as a four year "project" who was going to be a decent backup someday. These guys are pretty much saying the same about Pat. I would take him in the first round if he were to be there at 25. There is no chance that he falls to us on the second round, the kid has the skills and character. I don't see how we can pass up on this guy if he's to be there at 25, but then again we passed on Carr and others. Decisions that have gone on to bite us on the ass...
 
Last edited:
I remember when the experts had Dak Prescott as a four year "project" who was going to be a decent backup someday. These guys are pretty much dative the same about Pat. I would take him in the first round if he were to be there at 25. There is no chance that he falls to us on the second round, the kid has the skills and character. I don't see how we can pass up on this guy if he's to be there at 25, but then again we passed on Carr and others. Decisions that have gone on to bite us on the ass...
exactly what im talkin bout here.
 
If you don't think Favre was mobile, then I'd have to question your analysis on QB's all together. QB's don't have to be as fast as Vick to be considered mobile.
brett favre didnt rack up 800 rushing yards a season. hes got bretts gunslinger mentality and the mobility of russel wilson.
 

TexansSeminole

Hall of Fame
I remember when the experts had Dak Prescott as a four year "project" who was going to be a decent backup someday. These guys are pretty much dative the same about Pat. I would take him in the first round if he were to be there at 25. There is no chance that he falls to us on the second round, the kid has the skills and character. I don't see how we can pass up on this guy if he's to be there at 25, but then again we passed on Carr and others. Decisions that have gone on to bite us on the ass...
Not really. Dak was an issue of scheme. He took hits and stepped into throws. He showed a lot of signs that Mahomes doesn't show. Mahomes has a better arm, but it's the poise that you look for. I can't sign up on a guy in the 1st round or even 2nd round that is consistently fading away and throwing off his back foot such that he doesn't get hit. That's not how the NFL operates, maybe the Big 12, but not the NFL.
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
brett favre didnt rack up 800 rushing yards a season. hes got bretts gunslinger mentality and the mobility of russel wilson.
I realize that he may be a lot faster. I was just saying that Favre was mobile. He was like another Steve Young type, but not quite as fast. You don't have to have Russell Wilson speed to be considered mobile. Andrew Luck is an excellent scrambling QB and so is Rodgers. Favre made all kinds of plays on his feet, but mainly to extend plays to make throws. I understand what you're saying. I'll research this guy just to see what all the hype is about.
 

Scooter

Funky
He's not the solution because I see him being somewhere between Geno Smith and Graham Harrell. College player - not an NFL player. If he were from a school outside of Texas we wouldn't be having this conversation.
 

ArlingtonTexan

Moderator
Staff member
Wait, what? Basically every HoF QB was drafted. You can't win unless you bet. I don't know about Mahones. But the Texans need to keep placing bets.
yes of course, but Mahones no better bet than Weeden or Osweiler coming out who were drafted late first through the 2nd round (at least by projection). Saying Mahones is a worthy bet versus calling him a solution (as did the OP) is a huge gap.
 

Mollywhopper

Facilitator
Staff member
He's not the solution because I see him being somewhere between Geno Smith and Graham Harrell. College player - not an NFL player. If he were from a school outside of Texas we wouldn't be having this conversation.
If he were from a school outside Texas would a respected name like Mayock have him ranked any lower?
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
He's not the solution because I see him being somewhere between Geno Smith and Graham Harrell. College player - not an NFL player. If he were from a school outside of Texas we wouldn't be having this conversation.
Geno/Harrell = LOL

Geno was not the brightest bulb and Mahomes was academic all Big 12.

Mahomes arm strength is equal to any QB in the NFL. Other than both of them going to Tx Tech they really don't have anything in common. This is a lazy comparison, the only thing Mahomes/ Harrell having common other than the same school is they played in the same offense.
 

Scooter

Funky
Geno/Harrell = LOL

Geno was not the brightest bulb and Mahomes was academic all Big 12.

Mahomes arm strength is equal to any QB in the NFL. Other than both of them going to Tx Tech they really don't have anything in common. This is a lazy comparison, the only thing Mahomes/ Harrell having common other than the same school is they played in the same offense.
Sorry, I didn't compare their SAT's as he threw wild in the pocket, and there are 50 quarterbacks already in the league who have 'arm strength equal to any QB in the NFL'. You're going to have to do better than that. And sorry Mollywhopper, I respect you ... Mayock not so much (throw enough darts at the wall ...).

Edit: I should probably go to bed lol
 
Last edited:

ObsiWan

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
Plays to reckless. As fun as that might be to watch, i think ob wants someone more disciplined.
This is key.
O'Brien's offense is complex. You need discipline and smarts to make all the reads and adjustments required to be successful in this offense.
I don't believe Mahomes was asked to make complex reads or make adjustments at the line at Texas Tech. He will in this offense or in any NFL defense really. Ask RGIII how playing 'street ball' works over the long term in the NFL.


brett favre didnt rack up 800 rushing yards a season. hes got bretts gunslinger mentality and the mobility of russel wilson.
Neither did Mahomes. Better recheck that stat you posted.
 

Mangler

Veteran
This is key.
O'Brien's offense is complex. You need discipline and smarts to make all the reads and adjustments required to be successful in this offense.
I don't believe Mahomes was asked to make complex reads or make adjustments at the line at Texas Tech. He will in this offense or in any NFL defense really. Ask RGIII how playing 'street ball' works over the long term in the NFL.


Neither did Mahomes. Better recheck that stat you posted.
So "complex" the vets don't seem to get it. Hell, O'Brien doesn't even know it himself as evident by his post press conferences where he admits to being a lousy coach.
 

ObsiWan

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
So "complex" the vets don't seem to get it. Hell, O'Brien doesn't even know it himself as evident by his post press conferences where he admits to being a lousy coach.
I won't argue against your point.
:D
Seriously, when ARE we going to see a starter get back-to-back years in this offense?? Others have said (not in this thread obviously) that many good-to-elite QBs struggled during their first year. Yet, in this "complex" offense no QB has had two consecutive years as the starter. Why not?
 
This is key.
O'Brien's offense is complex. You need discipline and smarts to make all the reads and adjustments required to be successful in this offense.
I don't believe Mahomes was asked to make complex reads or make adjustments at the line at Texas Tech. He will in this offense or in any NFL defense really. Ask RGIII how playing 'street ball' works over the long term in the NFL.


Neither did Mahomes. Better recheck that stat you posted.
complex!!!ha i laugh at complex!!cal mcnair seems like a shady dude. only nasty men have moustaches like that
 

disaacks3

Moderator
Staff member
people who passed on brett favre didnt know brett favre was going to be brett favre.
Show me quotes about Mahomes that sound like these:

John Butler, Buffalo: "He is so interesting. Son of a coach, overcame some adversity with the wreck, I think he's just a pure winner. Twice this year he came from behind in the last seconds to win games. Anything you wanted to play, even shooting marbles, he'd want to win so bad. He reminds me a lot temperament-wise of Jim Kelly. Jimmy Kelly doesn't always look pretty getting things done, either."

Tom Braatz, formerly of Green Bay: "He can throw the 20-yard out with zip on it. His touch is the questionable thing. He likes to just get back and hum it. (His coach) said they didn't try to change him. He was so good (in college) that they didn't try to improve on his techniques. That was important in your evaluation. When you get him now he's not going to be technique perfect."

Joe Woolley, Philadelphia: "I really like him. He had 32 inches taken out of his intestines, missed the first game and that was it. He's tougher than a wood hauler's ---. He doesn't have great accuracy all the time. Early in the year he looked like a guy who had his gut cut open and had a hard time standing up straight. He threw a lot of balls into the ground. Later on he played pretty good. He's a winner."

Dick Corrick, formerly of Houston, now Atlanta: "He has the best pure arm of anybody in the draft. His arm strength does make him very interesting. He's just wild. They go all over the place. He seems to play better in games than what he does during the week. He's got that intangible thing. They beat Alabama. They beat some people because of him."

Reed Johnson, Denver: "I think he really competes. I think he's got charisma and leadership qualities, that old Archie Manning, Huckleberry Finn good old guy stuff. He's been in charge."

Ron Hughes, Detroit: "Very courageous kid. He was in that car accident and he came back and played. He was sick and he lost a lot of weight. Against Auburn he brought them back. Very competitive kid."
 

Texian

Hall of Fame
The kid has everything we need. hes a gunslinger, he can run, he has the size. he will be there at 25 and we might even have to trade up to get him after the predraft workouts. he is the real deal, better than kizer, more proven the trubiski, quicker reads than watson. he is the solution.
He came out as a JR, history has not been kind to QB coming out early.

History has not been kind to Spread System QBs having much success in the NFL.

Mahomes has terrible mechanics, makes most throws off his back foot.

He has been a one read QB. Has not shown he can read a defense.

Because of system there are questions of whether he can make tight window throw.

He played in a conference that does not play defense.

This is just for starters.....

Addition: Combine Measurements -
Mahomes, Patrick

Texas Tech QB 10 6020 225 Hands 9 1/4
 
Last edited:

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
He came out as a JR, history has not been kind to QB coming out early.

History has not been kind to Spread System QBs having much success in the NFL.

Mahomes has terrible mechanics, makes most throws off his back foot.

He has been a one read QB. Has not shown he can read a defense.

Because of system there are questions of whether he can make tight window throw.

He played in a conference that does not play defense.

This is just for starters.....

Addition: Combine Measurements -
Mahomes, Patrick

Texas Tech QB 10 6020 225 Hands 9 1/4

1. Jr QB's = Agreed
2. System = Agreed
3. Mechanics = Can be worked on/He was very accurate despite these bad mechanics.
4. One read = system QB = same thing point #2
5. Tight window throws= I have no doubt with his accuracy/arm strength that he can make all of the tight window NFL throws. Will he force some throws? yes all rookie QB's do, it's part of the learning/growing process.
6. There was a lot of pressure on Mahomes to try and make plays every time the offense had the ball, because Tx Tech had the worst defense in the NCAA and I believe that's why he forced some throws trying to make plays.
7. His measurements were disappointing to me. I expected him to be 6'3 with atleast 10 in hands.

In short at Mahomes best he could become a cross between Stafford/Wilson. At worst he could become a lesser version of Bortles/Kap. IMHO
 

TexansSeminole

Hall of Fame
I think so.
I'm not sure who will be available or how many of the QBs will be available.

Let's look at the draft order:

1. Cleveland
2. San Francisco
3. Chicago
4. Jacksonville
5. Tennessee
6. New York Jets
7. Los Angeles Chargers
8. Carolina
9. Cincinnati
10. Buffalo
11. New Orleans
12. Cleveland
13. Arizona
14. Indianapolis
15. Philadelphia
16. Baltimore
17. Washington
18. Tennessee
19. Tampa Bay
20. Denver
21. Detroit
22. Miami
23. New York Giants
24. Oakland
25. Houston
26. Seattle
27. Kansas City
28. Dallas
29. Green Bay
30. Pittsburgh
31. Atlanta
32. New England

Teams with unsettled QB situations, such that they'll potentially take one in round 1, or didn't take a QB in the first round last year:

Browns at 1 or 12
49ers at 2
Bears at 3
Jets at 6
Bills at 10
Houston at 25

Maybe you add:

Jacksonville at 4
Chargers at 7
Saints at 11
Cardinals at 13

But I doubt that second group is going to take one in the 1st.

I think the Browns will take a QB (Trubisky probably) at 1. Then you have some high draft picks where it's really murky. The 49ers at 2 and Bears at 3 would really have to like a guy to take them there and they'll likely not have a shot at the consensus top guy. With the Jets at 6 and Bills at 10, I think atleast one of those takes a QB at their spot, maybe both now that it looks likely that Tyrod Taylor will be cut. After that, I think you'll see some trade up action occur before we pick. I think we'll have to trade up, likely in the late teens in order to get the guy we want, assuming we identify a guy we want.

On the flip side, we could see some of the teams in the top 6 trade down and try to get one of the QBs and more draft picks. Looks like a year for lots of trades.

Potentially though, there will be one of the top 4 available at 25, and maybe 2 of the top 4 available at 14.
 

Bulls on Parade

2017 Astros: Earn It!
Scooter, I'm worried about him being a system quarterback. But if he's a smart kid that works hard why couldn't he succeed from Bill O'Brien's playcalling and coaching?

Can the kid stay healthy is the question? I want a guy that's always on the field... Tom Savage won't be here much longer (contract year). And Brock Osweiler will likely be bought out next year at this time ($6 million dead money cap hit).

Drafting a kid like this makes sense...
We can still try to sign a veteran to bridge the gap.
Tony Romo, Jay Cutler, even Kaepernick. A lot of names available.

 


Top