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Takeaways from the Broncos game.

Earl34 said:
I caught the tail end of an interesting conversation with Wade Smith on 610. As a former guard, he was saying that sometimes it's good for the OL to know the play before getting to the LOS. That way, you can focus on the man you have to block and what technique you're going to use for a given play.

Smith said, it's harder for the OL to get to the LOS, get into their stance and then the QB is making so many checks and changes at the LOS, you are always having to think instead of reacting. He mentioned the Texans should go no huddle more. He also mentioned Tunsil has more false starts at home than on the road. He attributes it to Tunsil reacting to the snap count a hair faster than Martin is snapping the ball. He recommended Devlin, Martin, Tunsil and Watson spend more time in practice on the snap count. Similar to a pass rusher, Tunsil is anticipating the snap count and is coming off the count quicker than Martin is snapping the ball.

Take it for what's it worth from a person who actually played the position.
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I love Wade's takes on the game, I vote WS for OL coach. Monday morning, in response to a texter saying BOB's offense rarely changes anything up, Seth Payne said OB does make changes in the running game. However in the passing game, he sees OB using similar route combinations week to week. Maybe teams are figuring out our preferences. Maybe this contributes to our struggles against better defenses.
 
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gwallaia said:
Surely this has been discussed, but why in the name of Bill O'Brien's chin-hole did they go for it on 4th down right before the half on your end of the field?
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I didn't want to quote everyone that responded to this, but my thought was, WTH is he doing?? Broncos get the kick to start the half. Not punting there and seeing the lack of defense from the Texans, that was an easy 14 point swing right there. I'm not saying the Broncos wouldn't have scored after the punt but damn at least make it a little harder for them.

As to the play call, another WTF moment for OB. Run the dang ball would ya?! Just a flat out stupid play call.
 
steelbtexan said:
Depends on what you think of RS and BOB's 4 yrs with RS.

BOB wasn't calling he shots.
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Are you saying BOB was calling the shots?

If so, you need to go back and look at the screen shot of the Texans war room the night DW4 was drafted.
 
otisbean said:
I love Wade's takes on the game, I vote WS for OL coach. Monday morning, in response to a texter saying BOB's offense rarely changes anything up, Seth Payne said OB does make changes in the running game. However in the passing game, he sees OB using similar route combinations week to week. Maybe teams are figuring out our preferences. Maybe this contributes to our struggles against better defenses.
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A fair point,

But there have been guys open like in the Carolina game and DW4 is missing them.
 
steelbtexan said:
UR has this in his avatar. It's offensive. He also says it often. In the case Doc made for more civility, i said I would stop using the reference because I thought posters knew my feelings on this subject and UR's. Plus the double standard that currently exists with regards to the mods. I guess I was wrong.

Neither one of them has grown.
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YOU LIED TO ME.

But cute Ha!!! Ha!!! Ha!!! Dan.
 
steelbtexan said:
UR has this in his avatar. It's offensive. He also says it often. In the case Doc made for more civility, i said I would stop using the reference because I thought posters knew my feelings on this subject and UR's. Plus the double standard that currently exists with regards to the mods. I guess I was wrong.

Neither one of them has grown.
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steelbtexan said:
YOU LIED TO ME.

But cute Ha!!! Ha!!! Ha!!! Dan.
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:confused:
 
steelbtexan said:
I dont know how to do screenshots, but I was at the game and saw guys open in the middle of the field often.

You can look them up yourself if you wish.
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The last time people provided screenshots, either the guy wasn't open or it was Fells/Hyde (not very good receivers) open near the line of scrimmage for possible 2 yard gains
 
TheKDog said:
The last time people provided screenshots, either the guy wasn't open or it was Fells/Hyde (not very good receivers) open near the line of scrimmage for possible 2 yard gains
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The Panthers game Akins/Fells was open along with Hyde in the flats. Also there were 3 deep throws that DW4 couldn't connect on.
 
steelbtexan said:
A fair point,

But there have been guys open like in the Carolina game and DW4 is missing them.
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DW has to play better, and I think he’d say that himself. I think his play and consistency will improve with time/experience. Hopefully sooner rather than later. One of my chief complaints about OBs offensive system is the complexity, Ive heard from multiple former players, Wade Smith and Cecil Shorts immediately come to mind, that OBs system takes 2-3yrs to fully grasp. The good news is DW is 2-2.5 yrs into the process so hopefully things will start coming together and we’ll see much more of the good and much less of the bad Texans offense.

On a side note, you mentioned seeing receivers open that DW has missed. It would be interesting to see a view where you can see WRs out in routes with a split screen of what’s going on in the pocket. I wonder what percentage of missed open receivers would be due to pressure in the pocket. I’m not trying to make excuses for Watson, I’m just curious what the outcome of the analysis would be
 
otisbean said:
DW has to play better, and I think he’d say that himself. I think his play and consistency will improve with time/experience. Hopefully sooner rather than later. One of my chief complaints about OBs offensive system is the complexity, Ive heard from multiple former players, Wade Smith and Cecil Shorts immediately come to mind, that OBs system takes 2-3yrs to fully grasp. The good news is DW is 2-2.5 yrs into the process so hopefully things will start coming together and we’ll see much more of the good and much less of the bad Texans offense.

On a side note, you mentioned seeing receivers open that DW has missed. It would be interesting to see a view where you can see WRs out in routes with a split screen of what’s going on in the pocket. I wonder what percentage of missed open receivers would be due to pressure in the pocket. I’m not trying to make excuses for Watson, I’m just curious what the outcome of the analysis would be
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Watson will miss open receivers underneath because he’s looking downfield to make a big play, but there are plenty of times when a receiver is open but he’s busy trying to avoid pressure.

And yes, he’s does hold onto the ball because he’s looking to make that big play, but a lot of times too he holds on too long because the routes are horrible.

Just in the Denver game alone, how many times did they have an open receiver where there wasn’t a Texan within 10 yards? Then how much does it happen to the Texans?

Yes, Watson has is faults, but the offensive design is crap. It’s the same junk Fitzpatrick ran on day one. The only reason it’s top 10 now is that the talent under center is that much better. Take Watson out of the equation and it’s back to bottom 10.

Watson’s development under Bill O’Brien is being severely stunted and I think his growth as a QB would explode with a better teacher, with a better offensive scheme.
 
steelbtexan said:
I wouldn't mind another HC either just to stop all of this bullcrap. If it happens DW4 will cost the next guy his job and the same excuses will be made. You're just hoping DW4 will improve, but it isn't goin to happen. He's a coach killer like Moon.
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You present your opinion in absolutes, then die on that hill trying to defend them.

Warren Moon is a "coach killer"? LMAO!!!
 
TheKDog said:
Do you have screenshots?
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If you have a screenshot and someone is open in the flats, but the primary and secondary routes are slow developing. The screenshot doesn’t tell the whole story and can be misleading for the pro and anti Watson crowd.

Unbiased observers might wonder is Watson waiting too long for the deep pass, did the OL give him enough time to get to the check down, was the check down looking at the QB, based on down and distance could the check down get the needed yards?

We all know that unless the weekly game plan offense emphasizes the short passing game for an opponent, Watson’s progressions appears to be from deep to middle to short. For every screenshot that shows an open receiver in the middle of the field, you can find just as many screenshots with all WRs with their backs to the QB running slow developing routes.

Any unbiased observer can see that the inconsistencies in the offense is a combination of mistakes by the OL, WRs, TEs, O’Brien and Watson. It’s never just one thing or person on every play or even every game.
 
Earl34 said:
If you have a screenshot and someone is open in the flats, but the primary and secondary routes are slow developing. The screenshot doesn’t tell the whole story and can be misleading for the pro and anti Watson crowd.

Unbiased observers might wonder is Watson waiting too long for the deep pass, did the OL give him enough time to get to the check down, was the check down looking at the QB, based on down and distance could the check down get the needed yards?

We all know that unless the weekly game plan offense emphasizes the short passing game for an opponent, Watson’s progressions appears to be from deep to middle to short. For every screenshot that shows an open receiver in the middle of the field, you can find just as many screenshots with all WRs with their backs to the QB running slow developing routes.

Any unbiased observer can see that the inconsistencies in the offense is a combination of mistakes by the OL, WRs, TEs, O’Brien and Watson. It’s never just one thing or person on every play or even every game.
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Yup...only the guys who suit up & call the plays know who is truly "at fault". Sometimes its noone's fault, the defense gets paid too & as hard as teams try to break tendencies, when it gets late in the season, you're ALWAYS going to default to what you do best if its the difference between winning and losing a game. Some here can't see that.
 
steelbtexan said:
UR has this in his avatar. It's offensive. He also says it often. In the case Doc made for more civility, i said I would stop using the reference because I thought posters knew my feelings on this subject and UR's. Plus the double standard that currently exists with regards to the mods. I guess I was wrong.

Neither one of them has grown.
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Perhaps but you are only responsible for you, your growth and your comments. Your choosing to stop using it was a good thing and you should look on it independent of all else.
 
steelbtexan said:
I wouldn't mind another HC either just to stop all of this bullcrap. If it happens DW4 will cost the next guy his job and the same excuses will be made. You're just hoping DW4 will improve, but it isn't goin to happen. He's a coach killer like Moon.

I agree with you about the 2nd Rd of the playoffs. Why? Because those teams are getting more consistent QB play.
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My issue is not certain the "right guy" is out there. I'd prefer a non-recycled guy and why I've mentioned coaches like Dabo Sweeney and Lincoln Riley.

Watson should bring a huge haul in a trade and like him or not the goal for most of us should be the team not a player.
 
Double Barrel said:
You present your opinion in absolutes, then die on that hill trying to defend them.

Warren Moon is a "coach killer"? LMAO!!!
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I’ve seen more references to Moon in two weeks than I read in two years. It’s as interesting as watching paint dry.

Phillip Rivers has been one of the more consistent QBs of his generation. With multiple HCs and OCs. Someone needs to let him in on the secret that if he could play three consecutive, consistent games he would have won a Super Bowl by now and he’s a coach killer like Moon.
 
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badboy said:
My issue is not certain the "right guy" is out there. I'd prefer a non-recycled guy and why I've mentioned coaches like Dabo Sweeney and Lincoln Riley
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I was looking at the Baylor coaching staff and was surprise to see so many coaches with NFL coaching and/or playing experience. Even Frank Okam is on the staff. I would keep an eye on Matt Rhule.
 
Earl34 said:
I was looking at the Baylor coaching staff and was surprise to see so many coaches with NFL coaching and/or playing experience. Even Frank Okam is on the staff. I would keep an eye on Matt Rhule.
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Radio guys were mentioning him recently. TBH, I know little about him other than basic wiki. Not sure I'd give him the reigns as HC.
 
badboy said:
Radio guys were mentioning him recently. TBH, I know little about him other than basic wiki. Not sure I'd give him the reigns as HC.
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Rhule has been mentioned as a serious candidate for the Giants if they make a change because he has ties to them already.
 
steelbtexan said:
I would disagree about Raiders good

But over all DW4 has been very inconsistent. The great QB's can have a bad qtr/half and still come up big when the game is on the line. When things dont go right the first 3-4 drives, DW4 isn't able to recover and bring his team back to victory.

BTW, It would help Tunsil if the fans knew to be quite when the Texans have the ball.
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Watson ranks third in both GWD (game winning drive) and 4QC (4th quarter comeback.)

The Texans are notorious for their slow start this season.

With guys like Fitz, Hoyer, and the rest, the Texans would have been burried in the sand.
Don't even mention Savage, please.
 
Double Barrel said:
You present your opinion in absolutes, then die on that hill trying to defend them.

Warren Moon is a "coach killer"? LMAO!!!
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How many coaches lost when they had the better team and Moon at QB?

I'm just giving thoughts, I'm not dying on a hill. My thoughts on DW4 are you can't win a SB with DW4 unless he shows much improvement that he hasn't shown in 3 years. If he hasn't gotten better in 3 years what makes you think he will improve? I know this is an unpopular opinion.
 
76Texan said:
Watson ranks third in both GWD (game winning drive) and 4QC (4th quarter comeback.)

The Texans are notorious for their slow start this season.

With guys like Fitz, Hoyer, and the rest, the Texans would have been burried in the sand.
Don't even mention Savage, please.
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Yet their records were close to the same. Ever wonder why?
 
otisbean said:
DW has to play better, and I think he’d say that himself. I think his play and consistency will improve with time/experience. Hopefully sooner rather than later. One of my chief complaints about OBs offensive system is the complexity, Ive heard from multiple former players, Wade Smith and Cecil Shorts immediately come to mind, that OBs system takes 2-3yrs to fully grasp. The good news is DW is 2-2.5 yrs into the process so hopefully things will start coming together and we’ll see much more of the good and much less of the bad Texans offense.

On a side note, you mentioned seeing receivers open that DW has missed. It would be interesting to see a view where you can see WRs out in routes with a split screen of what’s going on in the pocket. I wonder what percentage of missed open receivers would be due to pressure in the pocket. I’m not trying to make excuses for Watson, I’m just curious what the outcome of the analysis would be
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Hope you are right

I will believe it when I see it.

I'm just telling you what I see from being at the games.
 
Earl34 said:
I’ve seen more references to Moon in two weeks than I read in two years. It’s as interesting as watching paint dry.

Phillip Rivers has been one of the more consistent QBs of his generation. With multiple HCs and OCs. Someone needs to let him in on the secret that if he could play three consecutive, consistent games he would have won a Super Bowl by now and he’s a coach killer like Moon.
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Have you watched Rivers? Particularly in the playoffs? Although they're different type QB's I think they're comparable.
 
markn said:
I've watched the games, watched BOB crap the bed with pathetic clock management, abysmal play-calling and an inability to install an offence that suits a phenomenal young franchise QB.

You've just been shown evidence that BOB is literally the worst HC with 5 year tenure.
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I'm not saying BPB doesn't have issues and it wouldn't hurt my feelings if he was let go.

But he's far from the worst HC in the NFL like some on here make him out to be.
 
steelbtexan said:
I'm not saying BPB doesn't have issues and it wouldn't hurt my feelings if he was let go.

But he's far from the worst HC in the NFL like some on here make him out to be.
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I interesting: why are you making it seem like Watson is the worst quarterback in the NFL.

You see how that works.


Nobody is making OB out to be the worst in the NFL. We're just tired of seeing the same crap from him and his team every year. Big difference there bud.
 
TxnsJuggernaut1 said:
If the Broncos beat us like an old rented mule I can only imagine what will happen against a surging Titans team.
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Isn't it funny that O'Brien supposedly needs full control of personnel, a clone of Brady to play QB and the keys to the city to field a top ten offense. In the meantime, Vrabel has the Titans playing hard nose football based on a power running game and play action passes. With a first year OC and Ryan Tannehill leading the way, they are just as productive as any O'Brien offense and I bet they don't struggle in the first quarter like the Texans.
 
Earl34 said:
Isn't it funny that O'Brien supposedly needs full control of personnel, a clone of Brady to play QB and the keys to the city to field a top ten offense. In the meantime, Vrabel has the Titans playing hard nose football based on a power running game and play action passes. With a first year OC and Ryan Tannehill leading the way, they are just as productive as the offense O'Brien has been trying to implement and I bet they don't struggle to start in the first quarter like the Texans.
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Vrabel is a much better HC than he was a DC. Perhaps he doesn't have the ego of OB
 
JB said:
Marrone, Gase, Kitchens, Quinn, Taylor?
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Quinn made a super bowl. Marrone made an afc championship game. It's kitchens and Taylor's first year.

I guess he could be better gase. Don't think any of them traded so much draft capital to save their jobs for 1 year.
 
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