Damn... I was about to post the same thing. Tebow did not lack for work ethic. He's right about VY and JFF, they were party boys who didn't understand that the work to be successful in the NFL was waaay different than being the BMOC.
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Houston Texans 2017 3rd round pick, D'onta Foreman, RB, Texas
- Thread starter kiwitexansfan
- Start date
zshawn10
All Pro
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Now if he can run one-footed, I'll be impressed!
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Sorry, but Osweiler didn't, IMO.
I had stated several times that he shouldn't have said certain things, but better let the action on the field speaks for itself.
Neither happened.
PapaL
Loose Screw
I'd actually be more impressed if he ran any other way.
TheRealJoker
Hall of Fame
What in particular did you think he shouldn't have said? It seemed like he just gave canned coach speak answers whenever I heard him speak. Was there times he gave insight into the attempted gameplan from week to week?
I had stated my opinion on the things he said throughout the year in a particular thread.
I didn't think it was "wise" for him to say things the way he did.
(For his own good, I mean. IMO, he didn't handle himself well with his words - did not come across to me as a mature guy that I would want to give the key of the car to. And I really meant to be constructive - for his own good - too, not to find thing to demonize him.)
TheMatrix31
Hall of Fame
Is Foreman someone that can be used in the passing game? I'm a big proponent of using runners in the passing game.
Texansphan
Football connoisseur
He was used sparingly in the passing game but can catch.
I see on my twitter feed a video where Foreman was saying he has been working on his fumbles and also said his hand is fine and good to go.
SAMURAITEXAN
All Pro
Did he sign with Texans yet? I did not see his name on Texans signing list.
PapaL
Loose Screw
I looked yesterday and could not find anything about him signing. Spotrac still lists him as unsigned on the team and rookie pages; Davenport is listed as signed on the team page but unsigned on the rookie page. Foreman is the last one left for us.
SAMURAITEXAN
All Pro
Thanks for confirming this. How a heck 3rd rounder is still not sign when others are signed. I thought he really wanted to join the Texans. If he is, show us some love for the Texans!
TheMatrix31
Hall of Fame
Sweet. Hopefully we can find a way to use him when our run game turns to ****.
PapaL
Loose Screw
CND made a good point elsewhere. It could be because of his foot injury. Maybe the FO is trying to put something into his contract concerning that. Still odd that he would show up to OTAs without a contract and a questionable foot. Seems very risky on his part.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Add a hamstring now (sustained during training), likely compensatory to his foot problem, to that. To be clear, he showed up to OTAs, but did not participate in any way.
SAMURAITEXAN
All Pro
Make sense now. Thanks.
SAMURAITEXAN
All Pro
Thanks for info Doc.
TxnsJuggernaut
Veteran
Right from the start Brock was complimented by teammates and talking heads about putting in the work with teammates and for his leadership qualities. Qualities many of his former Broncos teammates acknowledged.
http://www.chron.com/sports/texans/article/Teammates-hail-Texans-QB-Brock-Osweiler-s-9124481.php
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...ler-from-broncos-starter-to-super-bowl-backup
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PapaL
Loose Screw
It's easy to look competent when bullets aren't flying. Different ball game when you're the target. It would seem that as the season wore on, the luster on Brock wore off.
TxnsJuggernaut
Veteran
The first two games Brock actually showed promise. While in Denver he looked much better than he did with us. It could be nothing more than a matter of fit.
Brock has weaknesses that are obvious and it may be those weaknesses never get worked out but it is very possible that he builds on the promise he showed while in Denver.
The point of my stating Brock showed leadership skills is that our taking him was in large part due to the promise he showed in Denver and continued to show leading up to his first start with us last season.
Also it is not like he was not offered almost has much as we paid him to stay in Denver. Brock felt we were a perfect fit for him but it turned out he was wrong.
Within the next two seasons Brock will get a start with some team and he will prove to be much better than we saw while he was with our team.
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TxnsJuggernaut
Veteran
If your talking about Brock's time Denver, it does for a lot of first time starters in the NFL. However it is letting them work through a little adversity that showcases what they are really made of. In San Diego he was struggling but having him work through that the rest of the game would have been nice and a lot could have been learned by it.
I hold no ill will toward Brock and still feel he could one day be a good quarterback if ever he gets another chance.
Sorry this got off topic.
Or it could be that Os was terribly inaccurate and flat out sucked.
BTW, he really showed those leadership skills @ Tackville last yr.
Brock is what he is a career backup. He may get another starting job somewhere, but that team will be a losing team with him @ QB.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
So now this thread has degenerated back to an Osweiler thread. 
Carry on.
Carry on.
TxnsJuggernaut
Veteran
I don't know squat about Donaa Foreman but from what I understand he is a power back and won the award as the best running back for last season. I did not follow Donta Foreman in college but if per say Donta is to add some power to the running game and be effective we will need much better run blocking from our O-line. If that doesn't happen nothing said or thought of our new young running back will mater. He won't be able to showcase fairly what he can do.
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TxnsJuggernaut
Veteran
We shall see.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Hamstrings in the offseason/preseason (over 50% of a year's total occurring during this time) have year by year been one of the most common injuries sustained by players before the season begins, and have usually not been a good sign of things to come. In the typical moderate hamstring tear, MRI studies has found that even when athletes feel they've given their hamstring enough time to heal, it's probably not fully recovered. In fact, up to 55% of the original injuries had not properly healed after six weeks. For an NFL player that is an eternity of lost practice/game time. A rookie, especially a rookie running back, in no way can afford that amount of lost time without it affecting his transition into the NFL and his development. And therefore they push to return to the field before their hamstring is fully healed. That's one reason why 30% of NFL players with hamstring injuries re-injure themselves.......and recurrent hamstring injuries result commonly in more difficult and longer recovery.
usernameJJ
Waterboy
That's a lot of doom and gloom for our shiny new Running Back. I don't like it. I get it, but I don't like it. Makes you wonder if the Texans medical people evaluated him properly/fully. So had he still not signed before he got hurt? Are you telling me he wouldn't make a dime if that was true?
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
He remains unsigned. There must be a good reason for a 3rd rounder, on a team where all other Draft picks has been signed, at this point to remain unsigned. If he participates in OTAs without a contract and cannot perform later because of injury new and/or old........there will not be an income. If the Texans are planning on signing him, they will want to put some language into the contract protecting them from buying a horse that may have to be put down. Foreman's agent may not be happy with the language. It is this language that I would believe most likely responsible for our rookie 3rd rounder not being signed by now.
usernameJJ
Waterboy
WOW. I have never heard of this in the NFL that I can recall where a rookie didn't sign, got hurt, and never got paid. Surely most teams compensate the player to some degree. I just can't fathom what just happened to him. I hope it all works out
xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
If this is true, can someone explain to me the logic behind drafting the guy?
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Good observations. After further researching your comments, let me back track part of my statement....the "no salary" part.
Unsigned rookies through the CBA can participate in minicamps and OTAs if they have signed what is called a Injury Protection Agreement. This agreement is to protect the rookie's anticipated final contract from injury until the final contract is signed or until TC. Until the final contract is signed, the team is to continue to negotiate "in good faith" whatever that means. We don't know if Foreman has signed his Injury Protection Agreement, or what reason he would have not to sign (doubtful). So, with attorneys involved in negotiation on both sides, and now with the NFLPA advising rookies not to play until their final contracts are signed, you don't know what is really going on...........and all of this is no doubt complicated by his "pre-existing" injury (with him being picked with full knowledge of the injury prior to being drafted, and not yet being medically cleared for it) and further complicated by his more recent injury.
bah007
Hall of Fame
Based on history, either the front office doesn't listen to our medical staff or we have the worst staff in the league.
This has been a CONSTANT issue with this franchise.
Texansphan
Football connoisseur
Foreman has come out and said his hand is fine and that he is good to go.
Seth Payne explained that there is some sort of deal with 3rd rounders (could also be 4th, 5th ,6th and 7th - not sure) with contracts that can take more time.
Unless there is something else I have not heard of.
What makes you say this?
xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
.....................and in Foreman's case, they would all point to the Texans trying to protect themselves against injury.
*****************************************************************************************
Tue May. 16, 2017
Monday Morning Quarterback/Sports Illustrated Business of Football
The Fine Print of Rookie Contracts in the NFL
Incoming players are locked into a wage scale, but agents can still boost those deals in subtle ways. Just beware of a sinister trend . . .
It’s mid-May, which means it’s signing season. Teams are locking up their rookie classes with CBA-mandated four-year contracts at a record pace (the Panthers had all their picks signed in a week).
When I negotiated rookie contracts for the Packers, from 1999 through 2009, I would call agents in May and June and try to do deals, only to hear that they wanted to wait until the market filled in and they would be “safe.” Some teams wouldn’t even call agents until the week of training camp.
That was then; this is now. The 2011 collective bargaining agreement assigned a value to each pick, meaning the only negotiable item fans and media tend to care about—the money—is basically preset based on where a player is drafted. Then why don’t all players sign quickly and easily? Well, “backside” issues could be equally or more important than the money. And with such limited opportunities to show their value, agents can separate themselves in these subtle and impactful areas.Here are a few.
Deferrals
Media reports about a bonus rarely detail payment terms, which are often the source of tense negotiations. Agents want all or as much of the bonus as possible now, or hopefully within the calendar year. Teams prefer to hold on to the money for both interest reasons and for any issues that may come down the road, giving them a level of control with the player having to chase the money. If the team is chasing money from the player, a judgment in their favor can be a pyrrhic victory; good luck collecting it. For example, the Patriots have consistently denied paying the last installment of Aaron Hernandez’s $12 million signing bonus from his 2012 contract, a $3.25 million amount that was due in March 2014. Whether justified in withholding payment or not—to be decided by an arbitrator—the Patriots’ lengthy deferrals have given them leverage here.
The deferral issue played out last summer in the long-running contract dispute between the Chargers and Joey Bosa, until the Chargers moved up some money (after saying they wouldn’t), although it was much less than Bosa desired. This year, the Chargers had another top-10 pick (Mike Williams) represented by the same agency as Bosa (CAA), but the deferral negotiation moved swiftly, with Williams to receive 75% of his bonus now and 25% of it next March.
I treated deferral as a negotiable item: I would sometimes offer one bonus with payment now and another, slightly larger bonus with extended deferrals. There were mixed results. If players needed the money, they often would take the smaller but immediate bonus.
Guarantees
Though the CBA drastically reduced pay for top rookies, agents have extracted a measure of redemption with guarantees. Most first-round contracts are fully guaranteed for all four years. Second-round contracts are usually guaranteed for the first two years, although late in the round it appears only the first year is fully guaranteed, with a partial guarantee in 2018. Below the second round, only the signing bonus is guaranteed.
Guarantees for rookie players are a nice development since the 2011 CBA, although that positive outcome is tempered by…
Offsets
In simplest terms, offset language allows teams to recover future guarantees if the player is released and then signs elsewhere. Teams enforce/demand offset language arguing 1) past precedent and 2) their own veteran contracts have offset language. There are a few teams that choose not to enforce offset in their rookie contracts; the Rams are a notable outlier.
Offset language is now becoming non-negotiable by teams who can exert their leverage here.
Splits, NFI
Split contracts are another way teams leverage players to protect against injury risk.
A split contract reverts to a “down” amount (far below league minimum) if the player is placed on lists such as Injured Reserve or PUP (Physically Unable to Perform). As with offset, splits for players taken below the second round are becoming less and less “negotiable.”
So far this year, signed third-round contracts have 2017 splits. Some fourth-round contracts have full splits in 2017 and 2018, although a handful of agents have wrangled a “preseason split” in 2018, applicable only if placed on the injured lists before the season. For lower rounds, full splits for 2017 and 2018 are common.
On the positive side for players, a couple of them have negotiated that if they are placed on NFI (Non Football Injury) this year—due to injury or illness not due to playing football—they will be paid full salary. NFI allows teams to pay any amount from zero to full salary; players such as John Ross and Sidney Jones have been ensured full pay. This is another area where agents can work the margins going forward.
Voiding
A more sinister trend is developing: teams are negotiating language that voids—erases—future guarantees not only for suspensions, but also for a fine! Think about this scenario: a player is late to a meeting (perhaps because his car broke down or he had an accident) and is fined for being late, triggering the void of millions, or even tens of millions of future guarantees!
I always teach that negotiations are primarily about allocation of risk. Teams are forging terms that increasingly protect them from any and all future risk with the player. Why? Because they can.
NFL player agents are now in a business with downward pressure on fees due to rookie contracts that are preset financially. The “backside” is where they can separate themselves.
***************************************************************************
Actually since, of his anticipated slot contract of $3,377,818, only Foreman's signing bonus (as a 3rd round pick) is guaranteed. This is a lot of incentive for both sides to take the extra time to try to protect and maximize their positions.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
He played a good part of last season with a hand fracture which he essentially hid. He said that this injury was responsible for his fumbling problem. It should be noted that mid November of 2014, he suffered a hand fracture which required surgery and an end to that season.
With 3 separate fractures in the span of less than 2 years, it makes me wonder at least a little if he has any underlying condition resulting in bone density problems.
Number19
Hall of Fame
The thing is, if he would go ahead and have his surgury now and red shirt his first year, he would then be ready to play at near full strength the 2018 season. I've been saying this since the draft. I guess there could be a difference of opinion on this necessary surgury and his missed playing time which could be the hang up in the contract negotiation. The club had to know his medical condition and the need for corrective surgury. They may not have anticipated the legal issues. This is all conjecture, but, what else?
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
I'm thinking Foreman feels like he was the top RB based on the strength of his 2016 season. Several factors played into him being selected in RD3. Based on his slot amount, he and his agent may be pushing for a much larger portion being given as a signing bonus in relation to their perceived value. Texans and RS may not agree with this and thus, this could be the sticking point.
They'll get this figured out and Foreman will be officially signed soon enough. If it gets to the point of missing valuable time in camp...he's going to be relinquished to a deep backup roll until he learns this system and what's expected of him, which could force his real contribution to the team to be much later into the season. I don't think he or his agent want this happening.
They'll get this figured out and Foreman will be officially signed soon enough. If it gets to the point of missing valuable time in camp...he's going to be relinquished to a deep backup roll until he learns this system and what's expected of him, which could force his real contribution to the team to be much later into the season. I don't think he or his agent want this happening.
Are you ignoring or forgetting his foot injury?
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
I'm not but he did run a solid 4.4-40 at his Pro Day and handled a few other drills. Could he even be faster with a healthy foot? Again, the FO must have felt comfortable with the foot and hand considering they invested a RD3 pick on him. He didn't avoid the first of three OTA's even though he didn't participate and wasn't under contract yet. That's why I'm guessing the guaranteed dollar amount is the sticking point.
The FO feeling confident in a player does not give me even a cousin to the warm and fuzzy's. Quite the opposite.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
A small metacarpal stress fracture not uncommonly will have NO effect on performance............until the fracture extends and\/or completes. The potential for the latter occurring in an elite running back is the concern.
And as far as the FO feeling comfortable with the foot, using past track record in evaluating injury effects on players, this would not be a comforting positive to point to.
Bulls on Parade
2017 Astros: Earn It!
He's had several "minor injuries" while playing at Texas.
And he still performed at a high level and succeeded.
The NFL is another beast entirely so we'll see how he does.
Lamar Miller is still our featured back so he'll be okay his rookie year.
Bulls on Parade
2017 Astros: Earn It!
A lot of teams draft players based solely on production and what they accomplished on the field. Some teams are definitely deceived by combine and pro day workouts though.
If you always allow injury concerns to dictate how you draft then every team's draft board would look a lot different. The Texans would have never drafted Jadeveon Clowney if that were the case. And the way he's progressing into a solid NFL player after last year, I'm glad we did draft him even though it wasn't all sunshine and rainbows his first couple of seasons.
Texian
Hall of Fame
My thoughts are if the FO had complete confidence in Foreman and his injured foot they would have signed him when they signed the rest of the draft picks.
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thetexanator
Veteran
i for one have total confidence in our medical staff evaluating delontay foreman. intersting fact, hes related to george foreman by like the 5th degree so you know he has winners blood. all you naysayers believing you know more than the texans. there are only 32 nfl teams in the whole world. 32, so they must be doing something right.
xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
Sleep it off.
I don't think the Texans FO or medical staff knew that JDC had sports hernias when they drafted him. I also tend to believe that the medical staff blows sunshine up the FO's a$$ about injuries, their outcomes and the likelihood of recurrent/compensatory injuries if the player isn't allowed the proper time and/or treatment to fully recover.
I think you should damn well put a lot of consideration into injury histories when drafting a player or signing FAs. All of the talent in the world is useless if a player is always in the trainer's room and not on the field.