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Davis Mills getting no respect

OptimisticTexan said:
…..and exactly how many times in a game does a QB have the pocket time to step into a 60+ yard throw that isn’t a Hail Mary at the end of a half or at the end of a game?

Mills’ arm will prove to be more than adequate if the Texans offense improves along the OL and in the running game. The potential weapons in the passing game should help Mills be very efficient.
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I think you missed the big picture.

That was why I said Brady's arm strength was underrated by many, including on this forum.
With such an arm, he can take advantage of guys like Randy Moss, etc.
But more importantly, the defense knows his real arm strength.
They can't afford to play these speedy receiver one on one or they would get burned.
And if they keep a safety shaded on that side?
Well, they just gave Brady and the other receivers more room to operate elsewhere.

It's just that the air yard that is the easiest way for a normal fan to gauge a QB's arm strength.

But also, I had mentioned Brady and others throwing while not in a position to step up or set up properly for the throw.

Again, that Brady's video also shows some of the throws where he basically throw from a standing position or while he didn't have room to step into the throw.

I also mentioned throws against the body, when the QB motions to one side of the field, but has to make the throw back to the other side.

Or when the Center or the Guard (a blocker in general) get pushed back into him and he has to throw muddy over the blocker and the rusher.
Those are different instances when a QB needs to have a strong arm since he cannot use his leg(s) to help generate the torque.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
…..and exactly how many times in a game does a QB have the pocket time to step into a 60+ yard throw that isn’t a Hail Mary at the end of a half or at the end of a game?

Mills’ arm will prove to be more than adequate if the Texans offense improves along the OL and in the running game. The potential weapons in the passing game should help Mills be very efficient.
Click to expand...
Also, a QB with a big arm plus a speedy receiver put a lot of pressure on even the elite/speedy CB if he's on an island.
He has to concern himself with a go route, a fade forward or a comebacker, not to mention the post route if the safety can't come back quickly enough to help (and these safeties are often not as speedy nor agile as the pure "lock-down" CB.
 
76Texan said:
Also, a QB with a big arm plus a speedy receiver put a lot of pressure on even the elite/speedy CB if he's on an island.
He has to concern himself with a go route, a fade forward or a comebacker, not to mention the post route if the safety can't come back quickly enough to help (and these safeties are often not as speedy nor agile as the pure "lock-down" CB.
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Good thing Mills arm is plenty strong enough as is and he's a hard worker who would work to improve this if he needed too. Good thing is he doesn't need to improve this part of his game.
 
steelbtexan said:
What you haven't seen alot of is Derrick standing in the pocket and delivering balls accurately and with anticipation from a dirty pocket. Why because he bails and scrambles then usually heaves a deep ball and hopes for the best. I will say Derrick had as bad of protection as Mills had last year.
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C'mon man
 
steelbtexan said:
What you haven't seen alot of is Derrick standing in the pocket and delivering balls accurately and with anticipation from a dirty pocket. Why because he bails and scrambles then usually heaves a deep ball and hopes for the best. I will say Derrick had as bad of protection as Mills had last year.
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The pockets stayed dirty bro. You don't get sacked 60 just because you're holding the ball. Are you forgetting those jail breaks with Davenport at left tackle? Look man, I know you don't like Watson and you never have even before the accusations, but if Mills can be half of what Watson was on the field, then that's a good start for Mills. I don't have to talk 1 guy down to talk another up. I've said Mills has an nfl arm, its not on Watson or Dak level, he's not the athlete with his feet in the pocket as they are,but that doesn't mean he's a bum.
 
leebigeztx said:
The pockets stayed dirty bro. You don't get sacked 60 just because you're holding the ball. Are you forgetting those jail breaks with Davenport at left tackle? Look man, I know you don't like Watson and you never have even before the accusations, but if Mills can be half of what Watson was on the field, then that's a good start for Mills. I don't have to talk 1 guy down to talk another up. I've said Mills has an nfl arm, its not on Watson or Dak level, he's not the athlete with his feet in the pocket as they are,but that doesn't mean he's a bum.
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You're way overrating Derrick. He probably contributed to 1/3 of those sacks. What about when pro bowler Tunsil was protecting his blindside? Same results. Truth is Derrick has never been as good as some on here think he is. He's a highlight reel waiting to happen, but you can't win championships that way and it's not a coincidence that the Texans won as many games without Derrick at QB as they did with him. I even predicted this outcome before the start of last season. The Texans didn't miss Derrick at all and will be much better off if they hit on the draft picks that they swindled off of the Browns for the fraud that is Derrick.

Derrick is a fraud both on and off of the field. Your fandom won't let you see that there is very little substance in anything related to Derrick. I get why this is, you got your hopes up, but must be very disappointed these days.
 
steelbtexan said:
You're way overrating Derrick. He probably contributed to 1/3 of those sacks. What about when pro bowler Tunsil was protecting his blindside? Same results. Truth is Derrick has never been as good as some on here think he is. He's a highlight reel waiting to happen, but you can't win championships that way and it's not a coincidence that the Texans won as many games without Derrick at QB as they did with him. I even predicted this outcome before the start of last season. The Texans didn't miss Derrick at all and will be much better off if they hit on the draft picks that they swindled off of the Browns for the fraud that is Derrick.

Derrick is a fraud both on and off of the field. Your fandom won't let you see that there is very little substance in anything related to Derrick. I get why this is, you got your hopes up, but must be very disappointed these days.
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The so called offensive guru in O'Brien didn't ever marry the scheme and play together, you know this. Even Tunsil regressed and looked passive, this again is something you should know. I'm not overrating anyone, I just don't have an axe to grind with anyone. Regardless of what you think of him, multiple team were ready to give up 3 1st rd picks and some for him despite the off field issues. So obviously they see something in his production right? Thats including nobody in division was even considered. Imagine if Caserio truly wanted the best deal and it came from the Colts or Titans. If he was as overrated as you say, he wouldn't have fetched that price correct? Listen, you have your opinion of Mills and I have mine just as we have our opinions on everything else. I don't pass my opinions off as fact, I pass fact off as fact. We started this with Mills under throwing the wr who had 2 steps after a flea flicker with a clean pocket. You act like you didn't see that, but anyone watching football know it was a under throw in a clean pockets without a scent of rush. Its cool, its a completion vs a td. I hope he performs up to what you think of him. Maybe he will, maybe he wont, we will see. Either way, unless they think he's a franchise altering qb, if they're in position to take one, they have to pull the trigger. If they think Mills is that dude, then they have to build it like that. My stance doesn't waver because a guy had some good games at the end of the year. Its the eye test as they say
 
76Texan said:
I think you missed the big picture.

That was why I said Brady's arm strength was underrated by many, including on this forum.
With such an arm, he can take advantage of guys like Randy Moss, etc.
But more importantly, the defense knows his real arm strength.
They can't afford to play these speedy receiver one on one or they would get burned.
And if they keep a safety shaded on that side?
Well, they just gave Brady and the other receivers more room to operate elsewhere.

It's just that the air yard that is the easiest way for a normal fan to gauge a QB's arm strength.

But also, I had mentioned Brady and others throwing while not in a position to step up or set up properly for the throw.

Again, that Brady's video also shows some of the throws where he basically throw from a standing position or while he didn't have room to step into the throw.

I also mentioned throws against the body, when the QB motions to one side of the field, but has to make the throw back to the other side.

Or when the Center or the Guard (a blocker in general) get pushed back into him and he has to throw muddy over the blocker and the rusher.
Those are different instances when a QB needs to have a strong arm since he cannot use his leg(s) to help generate the torque.
Click to expand...
The offense changed post knee surgery because it affected his ability to drive the ball deep especially deep and outside the numbers. After the knee injury, everything was inside the hash marks and option routes. Even then, with Tampa, he's killing those rails throws to Evans.
 
leebigeztx said:
The so called offensive guru in O'Brien didn't ever marry the scheme and play together, you know this. Even Tunsil regressed and looked passive, this again is something you should know. I'm not overrating anyone, I just don't have an axe to grind with anyone. Regardless of what you think of him, multiple team were ready to give up 3 1st rd picks and some for him despite the off field issues. So obviously they see something in his production right? Thats including nobody in division was even considered. Imagine if Caserio truly wanted the best deal and it came from the Colts or Titans. If he was as overrated as you say, he wouldn't have fetched that price correct? Listen, you have your opinion of Mills and I have mine just as we have our opinions on everything else. I don't pass my opinions off as fact, I pass fact off as fact. We started this with Mills under throwing the wr who had 2 steps after a flea flicker with a clean pocket. You act like you didn't see that, but anyone watching football know it was a under throw in a clean pockets without a scent of rush. Its cool, its a completion vs a td. I hope he performs up to what you think of him. Maybe he will, maybe he wont, we will see. Either way, unless they think he's a franchise altering qb, if they're in position to take one, they have to pull the trigger. If they think Mills is that dude, then they have to build it like that. My stance doesn't waver because a guy had some good games at the end of the year. Its the eye test as they say
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The lucky teams are the ones that didn't trade for him. The teams that wanted to trade for him have been bad for years. (Excluding the Saints)

That wr didn't have 2 steps on the DB. I look at the end of last season as a period of growth for Mills, where a guy with his little experience turned in the best month of any QB in his class. With a proper run game he even showed he could outperform Herbert. But hey, if you want to be negative be my guest.
 
leebigeztx said:
The offense changed post knee surgery because it affected his ability to drive the ball deep especially deep and outside the numbers. After the knee injury, everything was inside the hash marks and option routes. Even then, with Tampa, he's killing those rails throws to Evans.
Click to expand...
He looked pretty good throwing that deep ball to Miller on 4th and 1 at the end of the half against the Packers in the NFCCG.
 
steelbtexan said:
He looked pretty good throwing that deep ball to Miller on 4th and 1 at the end of the half against the Packers in the NFCCG.
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Thats a typical rail throw. DB never came out of the backpedal. One of the many mistakes made by GB. Brady was one of the worse qb's in the nfl throwing the ball outside the numbers 15 yards down the field his years after Moss and the knee surgery. Look at how the offense changed to basically inside the hashes, option routes, run after the catch. Why do yu think he pushed for AB and Gronk in TB? Arians is that wanted Brady to hold the ball and take those big shots down the field like Big Ben, Carson Palmer,and Andrew Luck. That's not Brady's game, he's about precision in his face. Even so, he still led the nfl with throws 20 yds or more. You just don't ask him to throw the same routes as you do Allen,Herbert,Mahomes, or Rodgers. He's great at what he does and that's what coaching is all about.
 
steelbtexan said:
The lucky teams are the ones that didn't trade for him. The teams that wanted to trade for him have been bad for years. (Excluding the Saints)

That wr didn't have 2 steps on the DB. I look at the end of last season as a period of growth for Mills, where a guy with his little experience turned in the best month of any QB in his class. With a proper run game he even showed he could outperform Herbert. But hey, if you want to be negative be my guest.
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He played a good game vs the Chargers. You think based off that game, the Chargers will trade Herbert for Mills?
 
leebigeztx said:
He played a good game vs the Chargers. You think based off that game, the Chargers will trade Herbert for Mills?
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No I wouldn't trade Herbert for Mills. I'm basing Mills off of a game that he had a run game for the 1st time all season and was fairly well protected in a game that the Chargers had to win.

What I want to see is how Mills performs when this is common place. I also would ask you what you saw from last yrs play that makes you think that Lawrence/Fields/Wilson/Jones/Lance are better NFL QBs than Mills? It surely wasn't play on the field
 
leebigeztx said:
Thats a typical rail throw. DB never came out of the backpedal. One of the many mistakes made by GB. Brady was one of the worse qb's in the nfl throwing the ball outside the numbers 15 yards down the field his years after Moss and the knee surgery. Look at how the offense changed to basically inside the hashes, option routes, run after the catch. Why do yu think he pushed for AB and Gronk in TB? Arians is that wanted Brady to hold the ball and take those big shots down the field like Big Ben, Carson Palmer,and Andrew Luck. That's not Brady's game, he's about precision in his face. Even so, he still led the nfl with throws 20 yds or more. You just don't ask him to throw the same routes as you do Allen,Herbert,Mahomes, or Rodgers. He's great at what he does and that's what coaching is all about.
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Iirc that throw was a throw 50-55 yds down the sideline that's right on the money. I don't care if that's a rail throw or not, if you can make that throw consistently in that situation you're a great QB.
 
steelbtexan said:
No I wouldn't trade Herbert for Mills. I'm basing Mills off of a game that he had a run game for the 1st time all season and was fairly well protected in a game that the Chargers had to win.

What I want to see is how Mills performs when this is common place. I also would ask you what you saw from last yrs play that makes you think that Lawrence/Fields/Wilson/Jones/Lance are better NFL QBs than Mills? It surely wasn't play on the field
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You're the only man in the world who wouldn't trade Mills for Herbert. Did you not watch Herbert even from his rookie year? Nevermind, a waste of keys.
 
steelbtexan said:
He looked pretty good throwing that deep ball to Miller on 4th and 1 at the end of the half against the Packers in the NFCCG.
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For 95% of the qb's in the nfl, this is the absolute easiest throw a qb can make. He best the cb who stayed in a backpedal by 2 yards without any help

youtube.com

✂️ Miller TD

26 seconds · Clipped by easylee71 · Original video "Tom Brady Touchdown Throw to Scotty Miller | NFC Championship Game | 1-24-21" by JQ
youtube.com youtube.com
 
leebigeztx said:
You're the only man in the world who wouldn't trade Mills for Herbert. Did you not watch Herbert even from his rookie year? Nevermind, a waste of keys.
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I was typing on my phone.

I would take Herbert over Mills.

Herbert and Burrow/Mahomes/Allen are the next generation of great young QB's.
 
thunderkyss said:
He’s smart. He’s poised. He’s athletic. I think he’ll play well regardless how strong his arm is
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Mills is athletic compared to the general population of humans. Regarding NFL QBs, I’d put him at 4 on a 1-10 scale. Mills is among the least athletic QBs in his age group.

But Davis is smart and poised, among the tops in his age group. So he’s got that going for him.
 
thunderkyss said:
I'd say he's more like a 6 or 7. He's not Lamar Jackson or Kaepernick, but he's not Dalton or Winston either
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Mills isn’t Dalton or Winston. Both had more rushing yards and a higher rushing average despite playing fewer games and being substantially older.
 
Lucky said:
Mills isn’t Dalton or Winston. Both had more rushing yards and a higher rushing average despite playing fewer games and being substantially older.
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I consider this to be a good thing. He's concreting on learning how to read a defense. I know we haven't had this style of football down on Kirby for a while so you may not recognize it. A very welcome change. IMHO
 
I like that Mills is showing confidence but not cockiness. I really like the kid and think he can be an above average QB in the NFL. My horrible, on the record, support of Tom Savage is what tempers my enthusiasm. I was so wrong on Savage. Embarrassingly so. :hankpalm:
 
Based off body of work I’d say Mills is in the 20-25 range with upside. I can see him cracking top 10 in the next 2 years if his growth continues. I think he could be a better Kirk Cousins. But he will never be Mahomes or Rodgers. He lacks the physical ability. He will be more similar to Manning or Brady. Good pocket mover who will make quick decisions with just enough arm strength. Although manning had zip. He lacks the physical attributes to make him like some of the current guys, but that doesn’t mean we can’t win as a team with him. He’s got great potential. Let’s see what he does with it.
 
amazing80 said:
Based off body of work I’d say Mills is in the 20-25 range with upside. I can see him cracking top 10 in the next 2 years if his growth continues. I think he could be a better Kirk Cousins. But he will never be Mahomes or Rodgers. He lacks the physical ability. He will be more similar to Manning or Brady. Good pocket mover who will make quick decisions with just enough arm strength. Although manning had zip. He lacks the physical attributes to make him like some of the current guys, but that doesn’t mean we can’t win as a team with him. He’s got great potential. Let’s see what he does with it.
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Well darn! I am so upset that he will never be Mahomes or Rogers. I will just settle for him being similar to Brady and Manning. Seriously I understand what you're saying and agree that he can be exceedingly successful without being a superstar. The good news is we have another year for him to improve and be evaluated before the next draft which does have two or three pretty good candidates at that position.
 
amazing80 said:
Based off body of work I’d say Mills is in the 20-25 range with upside. I can see him cracking top 10 in the next 2 years if his growth continues. I think he could be a better Kirk Cousins. But he will never be Mahomes or Rodgers. He lacks the physical ability. He will be more similar to Manning or Brady. Good pocket mover who will make quick decisions with just enough arm strength. Although manning had zip. He lacks the physical attributes to make him like some of the current guys, but that doesn’t mean we can’t win as a team with him. He’s got great potential. Let’s see what he does with it.
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Can you post anything related to Mills' arm strength? Everything I've ever read says he has quality arm strength but not elite arm strength. I don't see how that's any kind of a negative. It should lead to a more catchable ball. How many times have we seen "elite" arm strength guy try zip a ball in and it's too hot for the receiver, bounces up in the air and gets picked?
 
badboy said:
Well darn! I am so upset that he will never be Mahomes or Rogers. I will just settle for him being similar to Brady and Manning. Seriously I understand what you're saying and agree that he can be exceedingly successful without being a superstar. The good news is we have another year for him to improve and be evaluated before the next draft which does have two or three pretty good candidates at that position.
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And, some more good news is that the Texans added a couple of solid offensive linemen, a proven line coach & a new emphasis on the run game in order to give Mills more help & time to improve. Speaking for myself, I'm really excited to see what Mills can do this year.
 
Mills might not be getting much actual respect yet, but it looks like he's getting some anticipated respect. Everyone's waiting to see what he does this upcoming season before they start singing his praises. This article from NFL writer Nick Shook listing his potential first time Pro Bowl players for each team gives a hint of what he's anticipating from Mills in the future.
1657394579422.png

www.nfl.com

2022 NFL season: One potential first-time Pro Bowler from each AFC team

Will Joe Burrow earn all-star accolades in Year 3? Which Broncos receiver will soar to new heights? Nick Shook has chosen one prime candidate from each AFC team to earn a first Pro Bowl nod in 2022.
www.nfl.com www.nfl.com
 
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The Athletic put out their 2022 QB tiers, and placed Mills in Tier 4, #27 overall. Here are some anonymous quotes from NFL coaches and GMs.


Pre-draft evaluations do not change overnight, but Mills did win over voters to a degree that was not foreseen when Houston used a 2021 third-round choice to select him.

“I love this kid,” a defensive coordinator who faced Mills said. “I think he is so poised. He stands in the pocket, he is able to deliver the ball. I think he knows where to go with the ball. He throws a pretty ball, he throws a catchable ball, he sees the field. He’s a 3.”

“Really like his composure,” a personnel director said. “He makes plays in the passing game. Doesn’t have the best arm but is an adequate passer. He reminds me of a better Andy Dalton.”

“How about all the hype on Davis Mills,” a former head coach said. “I just don’t see it.”

“He’s done some good things,” a former GM said, “but doing good things when your team is no good, that is a whole different thing. He is still a 4 to me. I have yet to see legitimate starter.”

An offensive coach who questioned Mills’ durability and athletic movement entering the draft said he thought Mills had greater upside than Tagovailoa but lacked the support to fare as well this season.

“Liked him coming out in the draft,” a GM said. “If he turns into a Garoppolo, that wouldn’t shock me.”

So, there are comps to Dalton and Tua (favorable), and could be the next Jimmy G. I think that's showing some respect. "All the hype" on Mills? Where's that coming from?
 
Lucky said:
The Athletic put out their 2022 QB tiers, and placed Mills in Tier 4, #27 overall. Here are some anonymous quotes from NFL coaches and GMs.


Pre-draft evaluations do not change overnight, but Mills did win over voters to a degree that was not foreseen when Houston used a 2021 third-round choice to select him.

“I love this kid,” a defensive coordinator who faced Mills said. “I think he is so poised. He stands in the pocket, he is able to deliver the ball. I think he knows where to go with the ball. He throws a pretty ball, he throws a catchable ball, he sees the field. He’s a 3.”

“Really like his composure,” a personnel director said. “He makes plays in the passing game. Doesn’t have the best arm but is an adequate passer. He reminds me of a better Andy Dalton.”

“How about all the hype on Davis Mills,” a former head coach said. “I just don’t see it.”

“He’s done some good things,” a former GM said, “but doing good things when your team is no good, that is a whole different thing. He is still a 4 to me. I have yet to see legitimate starter.”

An offensive coach who questioned Mills’ durability and athletic movement entering the draft said he thought Mills had greater upside than Tagovailoa but lacked the support to fare as well this season.

“Liked him coming out in the draft,” a GM said. “If he turns into a Garoppolo, that wouldn’t shock me.”

So, there are comps to Dalton and Tua (favorable), and could be the next Jimmy G. I think that's showing some respect. "All the hype" on Mills? Where's that coming from?
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Here is a link with no paywall/blockers for anyone interested:


I posted the same thing in the NFL section.
 
Lucky said:
The Athletic put out their 2022 QB tiers, and placed Mills in Tier 4, #27 overall. Here are some anonymous quotes from NFL coaches and GMs.


Pre-draft evaluations do not change overnight, but Mills did win over voters to a degree that was not foreseen when Houston used a 2021 third-round choice to select him.

“I love this kid,” a defensive coordinator who faced Mills said. “I think he is so poised. He stands in the pocket, he is able to deliver the ball. I think he knows where to go with the ball. He throws a pretty ball, he throws a catchable ball, he sees the field. He’s a 3.”

“Really like his composure,” a personnel director said. “He makes plays in the passing game. Doesn’t have the best arm but is an adequate passer. He reminds me of a better Andy Dalton.”

“How about all the hype on Davis Mills,” a former head coach said. “I just don’t see it.”

“He’s done some good things,” a former GM said, “but doing good things when your team is no good, that is a whole different thing. He is still a 4 to me. I have yet to see legitimate starter.”

An offensive coach who questioned Mills’ durability and athletic movement entering the draft said he thought Mills had greater upside than Tagovailoa but lacked the support to fare as well this season.

“Liked him coming out in the draft,” a GM said. “If he turns into a Garoppolo, that wouldn’t shock me.”

So, there are comps to Dalton and Tua (favorable), and could be the next Jimmy G. I think that's showing some respect. "All the hype" on Mills? Where's that coming from?
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“I think if Mac Jones wasn’t in New England and with that hype machine, maybe he would be viewed a little differently,” a coach from an AFC East rival said. “If Mac Jones was in Jacksonville last year, how would he have been? How would people feel about him?”
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Yet he comes in at 18, ahead of Baker Mayfield, Carson Wentz, & Jared Goff.

I honestly don't see much difference between Mac Jones & Davis Mills... other than the neck & the team they play on.
 
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