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Davis Mills getting no respect

Texansballer74

The Marine
We have to remember that good Schaub learned to get the ball out pretty quick.

4.770 yards, 29TDs 5 Ints, 8.0 AYA is not all that easy.

Mills was at a pedestrian 6.4 AYA.
That's about 25% less than Schaub.

Schaub was never at that low as a full time starter until 2013.
Just like Matt had to learn , Mills has to be given the chance to learn. Also you have to factor in the talent around both players. Matt had the superior talent around him. Matt had a running game and a much better offensive line. Nobody on that receiver core can touch Andre Johnson. Ask yourself who had the better offensive game planner? Wasn’t Kubiak considered a offensive guru. Kelly isn’t nowhere close to that.
 

Hottoddie

Veteran
We have to remember that good Schaub learned to get the ball out pretty quick.

4.770 yards, 29TDs 5 Ints, 8.0 AYA is not all that easy.

Mills was at a pedestrian 6.4 AYA.
That's about 25% less than Schaub.

Schaub was never at that low as a full time starter until 2013.
I can't believe you're using those stats to justify your argument that Mills is a pedestrian QB at best. When Schaub put up those stats, he had 6 years of NFL experience under his belt. 76 games played & 40 games as a starter. You're comparing a 6 year NFL veteran to a rookie. If you want to be fair with your comparisons, how about comparing their rookie seasons to each other? Or for that matter, let's compare Schaub's 1st year (2007) with the Texans (his 4th in the NFL) to Mills rookie year.

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Mills out played Schaub (a 4 year NFL veteran) in every category, even though he was sacked 31 times as opposed to 16 times for Schaub. Given this comparison, I like our odds with Mills going forward. With an upgraded offensive line & a year of experience under his belt, I'm excited to see what Mills can do this year.
 

powda

Guard your tongue before it digs your grave.
I’m talking about arguing that type of point in which is not a great comparison. The kid has only played 11 professional games. The kid didn’t have the talent level that Matt had.

That’s an outlandish argument/comparison

Is there actually an argument here at all? Both cerebral qbs. Aside from that what needs to be said? Mills deserves more time. Schaub was a good qb in his prime. If Mills gets to that level I'll be satisfied.
 

Hottoddie

Veteran
At 1:45 in this video.
Mills 48 yard TD that travels around 55 yards in the air.
No idea what Schaub's longest pass was though

I found one video showing Schaub throwing a 77 yard pass to AJ in 2007. He passed from the 15 yard line to the opponent's 40 yard line for 45 yards of airtime. His longest pass was for 80 yards, but I haven't found the video to confirm how much airtime he had on that one.



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thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Who will have the better season in 2022; Matt Ryan or Davis Mills?

They're playing similar schedules.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
What dictates better?
My barometer is going to be all over the place, picking & choosing what I wish in an attempt to objectively handicap Ryan as I think he's on the better team. As such, I won't be using W/L

But he's looked quite pedestrian the last couple of years so... may not need much of a handicap.

YpA, QBR, TD/INT... PFF, DVOA... all that stuff
 

powda

Guard your tongue before it digs your grave.
My barometer is going to be all over the place, picking & choosing what I wish in an attempt to objectively handicap Ryan as I think he's on the better team. As such, I won't be using W/L

But he's looked quite pedestrian the last couple of years so... may not need much of a handicap.

YpA, QBR, TD/INT... PFF, DVOA... all that stuff

Ypa doesn't really seem that important to me and is variable based on offensive scheme.

I'd actually value w/l record far more...

I guess my bottom line is:

Ryan over Mills because I'd take history over mystery.

You up for a bet tk?
 

powda

Guard your tongue before it digs your grave.
Absolutely, but how about we do it on a four game plus 1 basis?

$50 to TT, plus avatar of the winning QB.

QBR, PFF, or passer rating... but I'm not doing W/L. That's a team stat.

Yeah sorry. I don't know what a 4 game +1 basis means.

I'm thinking season total:

Qbr+ td/int+ dvoa+pff. 1 point awarded for each category and w/L record breaks a tie.

Avatar bet - no personal pics. Obviously injuries, suspensions, etc, void the bet?
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Yeah sorry. I don't know what a 4 game +1 basis means.
The season is too long. Every 4 weeks we determine a winner & the loser pays up. The last game of the season would be a 5th group. Looser sports the avatar of winner's choosing until after the SB


Qbr+ td/int+ dvoa+pff. 1 point awarded for each category and w/L record breaks a tie
Choose another tie breaker. I'm expecting the Colts to make the playoffs, possibly win the division. I'd be conceding a point before we start.

Tie breaker can be total TDs during the period

Avatar bet - no personal pics. Obviously injuries, suspensions, etc, void the bet?
Ok
 

powda

Guard your tongue before it digs your grave.
The season is too long. Every 4 weeks we determine a winner & the loser pays up.



Choose another tie breaker. I'm expecting the Colts to make the playoffs, possibly win the division. I'd be conceding a point before we start.

Tie breaker can be total TDs during the period



Ok

Thanks but I'm not up for that.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
At 1:45 in this video.
Mills 48 yard TD that travels around 55 yards in the air.
No idea what Schaub's longest pass was though

If that ball was thrown properly, that would have been a td. The wr had to slow up even though he had 2 steps on the db.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
I just posted a video to show his arm strength.
The pass was a little under thrown. It happens
Again, this isn't a Mills arm strength issue. Every qb on the 3 deep can throw the ball 50 yds. The arm strength issue is can you throw drive the ball in a dirty pocket? In the NFL, thats what is most important. When players are at your feet, pocket collapsing, and you have to throw a 12 yd comeback on the proper shoulder.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Nah what?
You make it seem like he threw a Schaub wobbler. He put it right where I would have wanted him to put it. The guy didn't really have to slow down much at all. Could he have thrown it a step more out in front? Yes. How many times have you seen a deep throw bounce off of a college WR's hands? It's not like Stanford had a great WR corps. He hit the big play when it was there and that's what you are looking for.

If you want to see his deep throwing accuracy go back and look at the Chargers game. It was even more impressive in person
 

michaelm

vox nihili
Again, this isn't a Mills arm strength issue. Every qb on the 3 deep can throw the ball 50 yds. The arm strength issue is can you throw drive the ball in a dirty pocket? In the NFL, thats what is most important. When players are at your feet, pocket collapsing, and you have to throw a 12 yd comeback on the proper shoulder.

You say arm strength isn't an issue then describe a scenario where arm strength is the issue
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
You make it seem like he threw a Schaub wobbler. He put it right where I would have wanted him to put it. The guy didn't really have to slow down much at all. Could he have thrown it a step more out in front? Yes. How many times have you seen a deep throw bounce off of a college WR's hands? It's not like Stanford had a great WR corps. He hit the big play when it was there and that's what you are looking for.

If you want to see his deep throwing accuracy go back and look at the Chargers game. It was even more impressive in person
You see what you want to see. Schaub made completions to AJ just like Alex Smith made completions to Hill, but when you have the arm strength to throw the ball and the wr scores a td vs slowing up and getting tackled on the 5, thats difference. Those are points in the board. Thats the difference between AJ having 100 td as opposed to 67. Thats also why Jimmy G and 49ers lost the SB. That was a drop in the bucket throw. The top 10-12 qbs don't miss those designed td throws. Thats when Shanny knew he couldn't win with Jimmy G and started to move on.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
You see what you want to see. Schaub made completions to AJ just like Alex Smith made completions to Hill, but when you have the arm strength to throw the ball and the wr scores a td vs slowing up and getting tackled on the 5, thats difference. Those are points in the board. Thats the difference between AJ having 100 td as opposed to 67. Thats also why Jimmy G and 49ers lost the SB. That was a drop in the bucket throw. The top 10-12 qbs don't miss those designed td throws. Thats when Shanny knew he couldn't win with Jimmy G and started to move on.
This is the definition of seeing what you want to see.
 

Carr Bombed

Hall of Fame
You see what you want to see. Schaub made completions to AJ just like Alex Smith made completions to Hill, but when you have the arm strength to throw the ball and the wr scores a td vs slowing up and getting tackled on the 5, thats difference. Those are points in the board. Thats the difference between AJ having 100 td as opposed to 67. Thats also why Jimmy G and 49ers lost the SB. That was a drop in the bucket throw. The top 10-12 qbs don't miss those designed td throws. Thats when Shanny knew he couldn't win with Jimmy G and started to move on.
Top 10 to 12 QBs miss those throws all the time. Every QB misses throws, they're not robots. Elite QBs just make big plays more consistently and when it matters most.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
No idea what Schaub's longest pass was though

Too troublesome to try to dig up the old games.

A nearest example is the throw here at 16:43.

Schaub set up at the 29.
AJ caught the ball around the 16.

That's 55, if you only count the vertical.

But if you use the right triangle formula, that ball travels some 57-59 yards.

And Schaub wasn't able to really set up properly for the throw.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Just like Matt had to learn , Mills has to be given the chance to learn. Also you have to factor in the talent around both players. Matt had the superior talent around him. Matt had a running game and a much better offensive line. Nobody on that receiver core can touch Andre Johnson. Ask yourself who had the better offensive game planner? Wasn’t Kubiak considered a offensive guru. Kelly isn’t nowhere close to that.
I wasn't saying anything about Mills in that post regarding accomplishment.

Just the AYA (Air Yard per Attempt).
 
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76Texan

Hall of Fame
I can't believe you're using those stats to justify your argument that Mills is a pedestrian QB at best. When Schaub put up those stats, he had 6 years of NFL experience under his belt. 76 games played & 40 games as a starter. You're comparing a 6 year NFL veteran to a rookie. If you want to be fair with your comparisons, how about comparing their rookie seasons to each other? Or for that matter, let's compare Schaub's 1st year (2007) with the Texans (his 4th in the NFL) to Mills rookie year.

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View attachment 10321

Mills out played Schaub (a 4 year NFL veteran) in every category, even though he was sacked 31 times as opposed to 16 times for Schaub. Given this comparison, I like our odds with Mills going forward. With an upgraded offensive line & a year of experience under his belt, I'm excited to see what Mills can do this year.
See my above post.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
I don't need to find something.

I think Mills can throw 55 yards in the air, maybe even a little further.

But so far, we haven't seen it in live action yet; that's all I was saying.

I think his arm is adequate, just not as strong as guys that I had mentioned, and also guys like Rodgers, Allen, Brees, Herbert, Wilson, Flacco, Ryan, Stafford, etc.
Basically, this is all I was saying.

And so far, a poster had shown Mills' longest Air Yard is right at 55.

I had shown that Schaub's was at least 57-59.

So, until Mills shows in live action that he can throw further, it is what it is.

Also, @MrTex was saying that Schaub had a noodle arm.

I disagreed.
That's all.

I wasn't even talking about throwing against the body or anything else; just pure air yard.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
And I've telling folks that Tom Brady's arm strength is underrated.


Just midway through this video and I've already seen two passes longer than 65 yards in the air.

The second one, at around the 3 thirty something mark (just past the midway point) was roughly 70 yards in the air, if you use the right triangle rule to measure the distance of the hypotenuse (the longest side of a right triangle).
 

OptimisticTexan

2022 Rebuilding Block 2 / Go Texans
…..and exactly how many times in a game does a QB have the pocket time to step into a 60+ yard throw that isn’t a Hail Mary at the end of a half or at the end of a game?

Mills’ arm will prove to be more than adequate if the Texans offense improves along the OL and in the running game. The potential weapons in the passing game should help Mills be very efficient.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
Some people just hate being wrong. His arm is plenty strong enough. It's as strong as Derrick and Dak's. Not as strong as Allen/Mahomes and Rodgers.
Disagree, because we've seen Watson with a dirty pocket about to get hit in the mouth throw a dart. Same with Dak. Can't say we've seen Mills do it, even in college.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Disagree, because we've seen Watson with a dirty pocket about to get hit in the mouth throw a dart. Same with Dak. Can't say we've seen Mills do it, even in college.
I've seen Mills in a dirty pocket get hit and deliver strikes.

Go back and watch the Titans game.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I've seen Mills in a dirty pocket get hit and deliver strikes. Are you saying Mills had great protection last year?

Go back and watch the Titans game.
What you haven't seen alot of is Derrick standing in the pocket and delivering balls accurately and with anticipation from a dirty pocket. Why because he bails and scrambles then usually heaves a deep ball and hopes for the best. I will say Derrick had as bad of protection as Mills had last year.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Disagree, because we've seen Watson with a dirty pocket about to get hit in the mouth throw a dart. Same with Dak. Can't say we've seen Mills do it, even in college.
& in 5 years they’ve won….

I know that’s not your point. I don’t even know what we’re arguing about. But, just saying I’d rather take a flyer on a new guy than waste the next few years paying the likes of Dak & Watson millions of dollars whether they play or not.

I like Dak. Though I don’t understand how he outruns anyone without bending his knees. But he & Watson have yet to display the intangibles I’d like to see from my QB.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Is there actually an argument here at all? Both cerebral qbs. Aside from that what needs to be said? Mills deserves more time. Schaub was a good qb in his prime. If Mills gets to that level I'll be satisfied.
I've said it before, I want a better QB than Matt Schaub.
When there's a chance to get such a guy (Wilson, Mahomes, Watson, etc.), I want the Texans to go for it.
It's OK to settle for a Schaub-level QB for awhile while you build your team.
I was the guy who proposed to trade for Schaub before the Texans actually did it.
But I wanted them to draft Wilson (2nd round) with Keenum as the cheap insurance policy (I was willing to spend more than what they spent for Yates).
And I definitely preferred Mahomes over Watson, because he always looked to pass (same goes for Wilson); running is the last option for them, naturally.
I've said all these in the draft forum.
I also like Josh Allen and Herbert a lot (though at that point, it didn't make sense with Watson already on board).
 


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