Hottoddie
Veteran
That site is wrong. The scores appear to be reversed. Here's the NFL's list of QB's & their records in the SB. https://www.nfl.com/news/all-time-s...re-do-matthew-stafford-and-joe-burrow-slot-in
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Davis Mills getting no respect
- Thread starter SnakeEyes
- Start date
Hottoddie
Veteran
FYI: Some Superbowl participating QB's aren't even a blip on the HOF radar. But, they made it to the Superbowl in spite of that. It just goes to show that the TEAM as a whole is just as important (if not more so) as a franchise QB.
www.pro-football-reference.com
Pro Football QB Hall of Fame Monitor | Pro-Football-Reference.com
Pro Football QB Hall of Fame Monitor
www.pro-football-reference.com
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
Eli - 60.3% completions, 4.5/3 TD/INT, 7.0 Y/A, 84.1 PR
Schaub - 64.2% completion, 4.1/2.7 TD/INT, 7.6 Y/A, 89.5 PR
Eli from his 1st PB season to his last (08-15);
61.2%, 4.9/3.1 TD/INT, 7.4 Y/A, 87.7 PR
Schaub from 08-12;
64.9%, 4.4/2.3 TD/INT, 7.9 Y/A, 94.0 PR
87.7 PR would have not only been 22nd in the league last year, but it would have been behind Mills 88.8.
Schaub had a 90+ PR 5 years in a row. Eli did it back-2-back seasons just once, and 5 times total in his career. If Mills floor is Eli, I'll pass and keep searching. I mean, that will be fine until you find a QB, but that's not franchise material IMO. Eli Manning was not good.
I've watched every damn game they've ever played, thank you very much. Mills stats were markedly improved in his 2nd stint as opposed to his 1st. I've mentioned it several times in the past. His PR in the last half of the season was over 100 IIRC. They went from scoring 10 points per game to over 20.
Mills very well could continue to improve, but even if that's the case, it doesn't mean it will translate to wins. They won 4 games the season before with the passing yards leader. Mills also has some tape on him now. Sophomore slumps happen for a reason. We'll see if the adjustments can be made.
And then there's fans who totally miss the point.
The Texans are rebuilding their team, pretty much from the ground up for the first time since their inaugural draft. Mills will get better as the necessary pieces are added…..the Texans will win more games when the team gets stronger on both sides of the ball. That next big “team” step could happen this year or in 2023.
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
I don’t disagree theoretically, but I’ll wait to see it before I believe it.
michaelm
vox nihili
100%.
I've been a proponent of Mills arm strength being NFL quality. But he doesn't have the cannon of Flacco. The vast majority of starting QBs don't have that kind of arm strength, so it's no knock on any that don't.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
Nobody wants to use context. When the Giants won the 1st superbowl with Eli, there wasn't a rookie salary cap,Eli was a bonus baby. Before the rookie wage scale, qb's on their rookie deals made more than experienced,sb winning qbs. When the giants won their 2nd sn with Eli at qb, Eli was the 3rd or 4th highest paid qb in the nfl. Sam Bradfod was the last nfl bonus baby in terms of highest paid qbs without doing squat. Steelb always like using the 13.4% rule or whatever, but we've seen teams led by qb take up more than than that simply lose in the superbowl or championship game. In todays nfl, last 10-15 years, your qb is either going to be on his rookie deal or traded for because his team isn't good , but he's engulfing salary. Going back to the beginning of the salary cap when the entire league was trying to figure out the cap isn't in the same context. If your team is consistently in the championship game or the superbowl but doesn't win, that has nothing to do with how much the qb is eating the cap. In todays nfl, you're not going to be able to build a team at every position and have a Jeff Hostetler or Trent Dilfer and be in the mix for a superbowl. The nfl is basically mandating you have a top tier qb toe be in the mix to win a superbowl.
Texansphan
Football connoisseur
In today's league, you need a solid all around team - from an excellent HC and position coaches to players, scouts and GM.
We were almost there in the Kubiak era but got knocked out by the eventual champion Patriots.
If we had won in 2012, that would have been quite an achievement for a 10 year old expansion team.
I am hopeful we have found a good GM to steer us in the right direction and that Mills is the guy at QB.
Lovie has the experience needed to be a decent HC as well.
It is going to take time to get all the pieces in place after O'Brien wrecked this franchise so patience is needed.
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A person who denies history.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
It might be history, but its pretty much ancient history & he makes a valid point. The circumstances and context matter. The NFL has essentially said what he's saying: if you don't have a qb, you don't have squat...Team owners and GM's have bought in....which is why Mahomes can sign a 1/2 billion dollar deal & no one bat an eye...qbs know this....which is why a qb like Rodgers can hold GB over the barrel for 50 mil per year..... pushing 40 yo......& why a qb facing 24 civil suits can not only get a new deal, but get a substantial raise...................... despite his legal issues.
Texansphan
Football connoisseur
One of the reasons I was glad Matt Stafford won was because he is not considered elite - but he does have a great team around him.
He beat out the likes of the ARs and PMs and TBs
I don't care what the NFL says.
The owners are fools or are worried more about marketing their brand than winning championships. Frankly I don't blame them. This is all about the money for them.
Since 1994 the facts are the facts. Until guys that are making the big money regularly BEGIN to win championships (not just one championship but 5-6 in a 10 year span) then this is hardly acient history. Regardless of how bad you guys want it to be.
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Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Update your data set bro...
Tell me what is the most percentage a QB has taken up cap wise since 1994 and other than Brady what was the percentage the other SB winning QBs took up?
I will tell you until the GOAT won taking up around 15 percent that no QB ever won a SB taking up more than 13.5 percent.
No need to update.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
You update your phone,but you won't update your data. Matt Ryan led 28-3 taking up over that mythical percentage you speak on. You think they lost that lead because he was taking up over 13.5 % of the cap or because they gave up the ship? When Peyton got blown off the field against the Seahawks, was that because of the %?
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
Eli was the highest paid qb in the nfl and won a superbowl.
How much cap space did he take up?
I think no QB has won a SB taking up more than 15 percent of the cap and if Ryan had won that would have been an abberation.
Texansphan
Football connoisseur
^^^This^^^
If we get a top 10 - 15 level talent from #67, we got a bargain.
badboy
Hall of Fame
As with the entire offensive line I am hoping to get significant improvement from Charlie heck. Warshop needs to earn his paycheck.
Where on earth do you get the idea that his arm is adequate, not great? He led the NFL in passes over 20 yds last season. That's all QBs, not just rookies. Comparing him to Schaub is ridiculous, especially post-LisFranc Schaub. No QB in the league is a SB winning QB, until they are. I mean Dan Marino never won one. Trent Dilfer did. Just sayin...
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
Mahomes was partly able to sign that also because it was a very team friendly deal when you look at the overall contract, 10 year contracts in the NFL are almost unheard of.
Rodgers did have GB over a barrel thats true but it was also partly because fans were about to riot. GB is unique in that it is the only city owned team in the league so the GM actually has to listen to the fans and consider what they want and not just one owner. Funny enough GB also has one of the best track records overall for staying in the hunt for a championship every year but I'm sure the two things are unrelated.
As for Watson and his contract....Browns gonna Browns.
I don't disagree that a top shelf QB is an important piece but I think there is also an argument to be made that the last 2 decades of Brady and BB in their prime have caused people to not have a full picture. You put prime Brady on any team with a half way decent roster and a decent HC and he's gonna win. You give prime BB a couple of years to build a roster and he's gonna win. You put the two together and you get what we have seen the last 20 years. Now that both of those things are coming to an end we are starting to see teams with a "good enough" QB to emerge. No one thought Stanford would be the missing piece for a team when he was on the Lions and Derek Carr has floundered for years on the Raiders but last couple of years they've been in the hunt.
Completely my opinion but I think we are starting to see a return to when having a more balanced team was more important than just having one amazing QB at least as far as actually winning a championship goes.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
See this argument right here shows that you didn't actually read what was stated or if you did you completely missed the point. The original point was nothing more than the historical fact that no team had won the SB with a QB taking up more than 13.5% of the cap.
THATS ALL!!!!
No said it couldn't be done, no one said it never would be done, no one said others hadn't come close to doing it. It was just that it never had been done. Even in that first thread me, @Corrosion and even @steelbtexan acknowledged that it would be done at some point, think Corrosion even said it would be soon, but the question being asked was if people thought Watson and the Texans would be able to break that historical record because at the time Watson's contract was coming up and we were going to have to pay him. Ah simpler times. You have twisted that in this thread to people saying it can't be done and that was never said nor was it the point. Of course I have yet to figure out what the point of this thread actually is except another thing to argue with Steel about.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
You didnt…i thought it was a very distinct possibility that Stafford would be tge final piece for the rams. He languished in DET for years and was only thought of as not good b/c of that. But go back and look at sone of the seasons he put up; he wasnt a bum beibg carried.
furthermore Steelb’s argument doesnt hold any weight largely b/c its already been debunked. There are too many other factors that come into play when it comes to a team winning a SB…qb salary percentage isnt the only thing.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
Then you were the only one because pretty much everyone else said that Rams took Stafford because they had to get out from under Geoff's contract and Detroit was one of the few teams with the cap space and willingness to do it. Stafford was a bonus. You say its 'been debunked" which is an asinine thing to say since the fact no team had won was a mathematical and historical fact at the time. You can have your own opinions but you can't have your own facts and saying there are many other factors doesn't change facts. It all boils down to trying to "debunk" or flat out ignoring what was mostly just an interesting stat because it disagrees with your point of view. The ironic thing is that at the time people were saying it was just an excuse not to give Watson a mega deal, which it wasn't, now people seem to be bringing it up just to try and argue because we are a long way from offering any QB a mega deal again so for the Texans this is a non-issue.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Leebigtx already pointed it out..... Eli was the highest paid qb when he won his SB...Brady also did it.....Steelb in trademark fashion denounced both as "aberations". Like i said DEBUNKED. Furthermore, Plenty of teams above his mythical percentage have gotten to SB's. His thought might have more creedence if this were the NBA playoffs where its the best of 7 instead of just a 1 game to decide it all....or when you're talking about teams like the Texans who are stuck in purgatory in the divisional round...but teams in the SB? naw....If you were good enough to actually get to that game, then they were good enough to win it. The percentage of the cap the qb took up had little if anything to do with why they may have lost it...Especially considering its a 1-off where each team gets 2 weeks to prepare for their opponent.
Like alot of the crap Steelb spews, His theory is based on flawed & simplistic thinking with little to no context and/or nuance taken into account....On the surface it looks legit, but there's usually more to it than how he's presenting things. I liken the way he thinks to a defensive lineman running all over the field chasing after the ball wherever it goes...Sure, you'll make a few more plays than you would've otherwise made, but overall, you're missing the point of why gap integrity is important to the overall structure of the defense.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
And once again the point is entirely missed so that the narrative can be followed. Carry on as this proved as pointless as I thought it would. By the way, if you go back to the original thread you would see that this wasn't Steel's "theory" nor was he the first person to point it out. But sure, go ahead and keep beating the drum.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
y’all dont have a point..this is just something that y’all firmly believe even tho as i and others have said, its nonsensical.
Deny the facts all you want. The percentages are the percentages. It's not about the amount being paid, but the amount of crap being taken up.
As far as the last part of your post, for the record I've never said any such thing and find a post where I said something like this before putting this crap out there. Some people may take what you say as the gospel and this is untrue. But nice try at changing the narrative.
I've said many times that Watt failing to maintain gap responsibility while looking for sacks was hurting the defense.
Because I felt like stirring the "No respect, no respect at all" pot.
ESPN+ Link
NFL Execs rank 2nd year QBs
6. Davis Mills, Houston Texans
Drafted: No. 67 overall
2021 stats: 11 starts, 2,664 passing yards, 16 TD passes, 10 interceptions, 35.5 Total QBR (44 rushing yards)
Mills was not a throw-in in these rankings. He pushed Fields and Lance for the fourth and fifth spots, respectively. Evaluators saw good quarterback play from the third-round pick, who completed 66.8% of his passes on a bad team. And Mills ranked 11th in the NFL in third-down passing accuracy among candidates with at least 100 third-down throws, completing 70 of 110 passes (63.6%) and trailing only Jones (63.9%) among rookies.
"He was just playing the position really well," one NFL assistant coach said. "He didn't have a lot around him, and he didn't have many rookie mistakes in the games I saw. He can work through the progressions from the pocket, great mechanics, fundamentally sound, accurate at all three levels, can drive the ball and layer the ball. Really checked a lot of boxes."
Before the 2021 draft, some teams had concerns about Mills' injury history, including multiple knee surgeries dating to high school. He appears to have overcome it.
"Talented kid. Love [coordinator] Pep [Hamilton] coaching him, too," an AFC exec said. "But his team stinks. And his upside isn't as high as some of the others."
Added an NFC offensive coach: "Like him a lot, but that organization seems to be in a holding pattern."
_________________________________________________________________________________________
No one had a bad word to say about Mills. His ranking is based off the perception of the organization. Maybe the thread should be renamed, "The Texans getting no respect."
ESPN+ Link
NFL Execs rank 2nd year QBs
6. Davis Mills, Houston Texans
Drafted: No. 67 overall
2021 stats: 11 starts, 2,664 passing yards, 16 TD passes, 10 interceptions, 35.5 Total QBR (44 rushing yards)
Mills was not a throw-in in these rankings. He pushed Fields and Lance for the fourth and fifth spots, respectively. Evaluators saw good quarterback play from the third-round pick, who completed 66.8% of his passes on a bad team. And Mills ranked 11th in the NFL in third-down passing accuracy among candidates with at least 100 third-down throws, completing 70 of 110 passes (63.6%) and trailing only Jones (63.9%) among rookies.
"He was just playing the position really well," one NFL assistant coach said. "He didn't have a lot around him, and he didn't have many rookie mistakes in the games I saw. He can work through the progressions from the pocket, great mechanics, fundamentally sound, accurate at all three levels, can drive the ball and layer the ball. Really checked a lot of boxes."
Before the 2021 draft, some teams had concerns about Mills' injury history, including multiple knee surgeries dating to high school. He appears to have overcome it.
"Talented kid. Love [coordinator] Pep [Hamilton] coaching him, too," an AFC exec said. "But his team stinks. And his upside isn't as high as some of the others."
Added an NFC offensive coach: "Like him a lot, but that organization seems to be in a holding pattern."
_________________________________________________________________________________________
No one had a bad word to say about Mills. His ranking is based off the perception of the organization. Maybe the thread should be renamed, "The Texans getting no respect."
Yep, that's why the 80's Giants D sucked so hard. LT's lack of gap integrity.
I can't wait for a QB to break the 15% threshold and then I get the see I told you so posts. You know it's going to happen sooner or later. LMAO
I need to clarify, this was after Watt became injury prone that lack of gap integrity began to stick out like a sore thumb. Several other posters commented on this at the time also.
Watt laid everything he had out on the field. It doesn't surprise me that it wasn't enough for some fans.
Do you know how much dead $$$ the Rams had to eat on Goff's contract in 2021 in order to make the Stafford trade? $24.7 million. Do you know Stafford's salary cap hit in 2021? $20 million. $24.7 million + $20 million is how much it cost to have Matt Stafford play QB for the Los Angeles Rams in 2021. Or 23.89% of their salary cap.
The 15 % threshold has been smashed. Long live high priced QBs winning Super Bowls.
I didn't say that at all.
I responded to Mr. Tex erroneously saying I didn't care about DL running around like crazy with no gap integrity. Truth is I called out Watt at the time for the very thing Mr. Tex said didn't matter and I wasn't the only poster to point this out.
BTW, there's nobody more appreciative than me about the effort Watt put in to try to win a championship or what all he did for this community during his time down on Kirby.
Was 24 mil over the threshold? Nice attempt to skew the stat. Truth is that dead money was just that, I didn't know dead money was assigned to a particular position. Dead money from the Watt cut counts just as much against the cap as QB money.
If we are going to start counting dead money regardless of position that's an entirely different discussion. What I would like to know is what is the most dead money a team has carried and won a SB?
Mills doesn't have a noodle arm, it seems.
But he had never made an attempt down the sideline, where the ball get to the receiver about chest high, deeper than 39-41 yards from the LOS (the two deepest, if my research in right, are the one in the Chargers game that you show and another one in the Seahawks game - an incompletion.
It's been awhile, but I think Schaub had made throws around there, maybe 42 yards.
It's somewhere in my film study notes over the years.
.....
On another note, I just want to add that I think people misunderstand the part about making all the throws.
A corner route thrown 35 yards from the LOS already qualifies.
Making all the throws doesn't necessarily means a strong arm.
....
Have we ever seen Mills throw the long ball in windy and/or rigid and/or wet condition?
I heard that Brandon Cooks is good, Nico is good, and the TEs are pretty good.
...
Throwing muddy, throwing the ball across the body, throwing deep when the QB can't afford to set his feet are the things that separate the elite QBs from the rest.
Tom Brady is underrated in these regards because he can read the defense so well in crunch time, none of that matters.
He has a good-but not great arm, but he has a much better brain than anybody else we've seen so far. An unicorn.
You and Corrosion are just fitting data .
That reminds me how I used to do it in Chemistry lab.
JWLCASPER
Waterboy
His Pro Day was put on during the rain and his former coach had some kind words from that day, but obviously this could be coach speak. It was one of the few videos of him throwing in the rain.
Stanford’s Davis Mills shows he can ‘sling the ball’ at rainy pro day for NFL Draft
Stanford quarterback Davis Mills and cornerback Paulson Adebo enhanced their NFL draft stock at a rainy pro-day workout.
www.mercurynews.com
Texans were impressed with Davis Mills' ability to throw in the rain at Stanford's pro day
The Houston Texans revealed one element from QB Davis Mills’ workout that impressed them at the Stanford pro day.
texanswire.usatoday.com
This throw impressed me as well!
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JWLCASPER
Waterboy
It’s something I am hoping materializes from Mills’ time at Stanford. The one thing you can say about players coming out of Stanford is that they usually are great at processing information. Doing this in game speed is another nuance all together, but I do have high expectations for Mills in this regard. People under look the fact about Brady going to Michigan, a notoriously highly regarded academic institution. Brady’s mental trigger is better than the hair trigger attached to his right shoulder.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Davis Mills Game log shows his longest yards. One was 67 but I’m sure the receivers gets credit for that.
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It was 26 yards in the air to Chris Moore, 41 YAC by Moore.
Deny the numbers if you wish.You and Corrosion are just fitting data .
That reminds me how I used to do it in Chemistry lab.
michaelm
vox nihili
The TD to Connelly against the Chargers was thrown at the 50 yardline and caught around the 3 yardline.
TexansBull
Hall of Fame
I am not as well versed as some of y’all are in QB stuff, but it looks based on the video that Mills made a couple throws about 45 yards and the ball still had some zip in it and he was hitting the receiver in stride.
The Schaub 2.0 comparisons seem a little over done.
Granted it is a highlight video but I think this kid can QB. I am excited about this upcoming season.
Longest reception includes YAC by the receiver.
Moore was responsible for the last 40 yards.