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Davis Mills getting no respect

76Texan

Hall of Fame

I am not as well versed as some of y’all are in QB stuff, but it looks based on the video that Mills made a couple throws about 45 yards and the ball still had some zip in it and he was hitting the receiver in stride.

The Schaub 2.0 comparisons seem a little over done.

Granted it is a highlight video but I think this kid can QB. I am excited about this upcoming season.
Both of them were around 39-41 yards at chest high level, like I had said.
Schaub had gone further than that.
I never thought Schaub had noodle arms; it was just not elite arm strentgh.
 

TexansBull

Hall of Fame
Both of them were around 39-41 yards at chest high level, like I had said.
Schaub had gone further than that.
I never thought Schaub had noodle arms; it was just not elite arm strentgh.

At 1:56 (or -1:12) he throws it from the goal line to what appears to be the 40. 40yards total.

At 2:01 (or -1:05) he throws it from the 49 to about the 4 yard line. Probably his longest throw. Around 47 yards.

I could and am probably wrong. Just trying to see if what I am seeing is correct.

I don’t think he is going to have elite strength.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Yeah you're right.
I was just looking at arm strength, and he can throw the ball around 50 yards in the air. Maybe more
He can throw the ball much longer than 50 yds. I read somewhere he was one of the most accurate deep throwing QB's in the NFL.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
At 1:56 (or -1:12) he throws it from the goal line to what appears to be the 40. 40yards total.

At 2:01 (or -1:05) he throws it from the 49 to about the 4 yard line. Probably his longest throw. Around 47 yards.

I could and am probably wrong. Just trying to see if what I am seeing is correct.

I don’t think he is going to have elite strength.
Better than an elite arm, accuracy on deep throws is what's most important. Mills can easily throw a ball 60 yds accurately. If Cooks says his arm is plenty strong enough I would tend to believe him over 76's preconceived notions.

Everybody else should too.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
At 1:56 (or -1:12) he throws it from the goal line to what appears to be the 40. 40yards total.

At 2:01 (or -1:05) he throws it from the 49 to about the 4 yard line. Probably his longest throw. Around 47 yards.

I could and am probably wrong. Just trying to see if what I am seeing is correct.

I don’t think he is going to have elite strength.
Here's elite arm strength (we're talking about measuring the throw from where the QB stands; obviously, we also need to take into account the direction of the throw. A corner route travels further than a post route when the receiver catches the ball at the same yard marker).


Elite arm strength is when the ball travel 70-80 yards in the air.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
He's just reaching to find something Mills does below avg, so his preconceived notion will be correct.
I don't need to find something.

I think Mills can throw 55 yards in the air, maybe even a little further.

But so far, we haven't seen it in live action yet; that's all I was saying.

I think his arm is adequate, just not as strong as guys that I had mentioned, and also guys like Rodgers, Allen, Brees, Herbert, Wilson, Flacco, Ryan, Stafford, etc.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
I don't need to find something.

I think Mills can throw 55 yards in the air, maybe even a little further.

But so far, we haven't seen it in live action yet; that's all I was saying.

I think his arm is adequate, just not as strong as guys that I had mentioned, and also guys like Rodgers, Allen, Brees, Herbert, Wilson, Flacco, Ryan, Stafford, etc.
Didn't Davis Mills have a very high ratio of completed passes longer than 20 yards in 2021 season?
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
See this argument right here shows that you didn't actually read what was stated or if you did you completely missed the point. The original point was nothing more than the historical fact that no team had won the SB with a QB taking up more than 13.5% of the cap.

THATS ALL!!!!

No said it couldn't be done, no one said it never would be done, no one said others hadn't come close to doing it. It was just that it never had been done. Even in that first thread me, @Corrosion and even @steelbtexan acknowledged that it would be done at some point, think Corrosion even said it would be soon, but the question being asked was if people thought Watson and the Texans would be able to break that historical record because at the time Watson's contract was coming up and we were going to have to pay him. Ah simpler times. You have twisted that in this thread to people saying it can't be done and that was never said nor was it the point. Of course I have yet to figure out what the point of this thread actually is except another thing to argue with Steel about.
Its ridiculous honestly because its a set % as if what the qb makes has no bearing as long as he doesn't hit a magical threshold. I'm almost certain you can go through the history of the salary cap and find positions to which you cant win a superbowl if position x takes up y % of the cap. In my opinion, if you make it to the championship game, you're a superbowl caliber team, period. Whether you win 2 games or not has nothing to do with the % your qb makes.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
I don't need to find something.

I think Mills can throw 55 yards in the air, maybe even a little further.

But so far, we haven't seen it in live action yet; that's all I was saying.

I think his arm is adequate, just not as strong as guys that I had mentioned, and also guys like Rodgers, Allen, Brees, Herbert, Wilson, Flacco, Ryan, Stafford, etc.
To add, throwing the ball vs driving the ball is different. Any qb on an NFL can take a 7 step drop and throw the ball 50 yards up the sideline. The true test is can you take a 5 step drop, plant, and drive a 15 yd comeback or 12 yrd out route vs press coverage and put it on the correct shoulder? Or can you drive the ball in the middle of the field on a dagger route?
 

TexansBull

Hall of Fame
Better than an elite arm, accuracy on deep throws is what's most important. Mills can easily throw a ball 60 yds accurately. If Cooks says his arm is plenty strong enough I would tend to believe him over 76's preconceived notions.

Everybody else should too.
I am understanding it as elite arm strength as in throwing it down the field. Elite being the top 1%. I think Rodgers, Mahomes, Allen and Burrow are probably in there somewhere. Either way just 3-4 passers.

Mills ain’t on it. But there are other skills more important.
 
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maverick512000

Hall of Fame
Arm strength is way overrated, sure being able to throw 70 yards into the wind is awesome but I would much rather have a QB that can knock a bottle off a pole from 15 yards away 100 times in a row. Brady made an entire career out of those short, deadly passes and while they may make for boring highlight reels they can carve up a defense. Can Mills do that, I don't know but I do know that playing in the wind or rain or snow is much rarer than playing inside a dome particularly for the Texans.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Arm strength is way overrated, sure being able to throw 70 yards into the wind is awesome but I would much rather have a QB that can knock a bottle off a pole from 15 yards away 100 times in a row.
To me arm strength, arm talent, is more about making great throws in less than ideal conditions.

If you have a 220lb LB plowing into your chest & you're Still able to accurately throw the ball 7 yards... or any situation where you aren't able to plant your feet, rotate your hips, or follow through & you're throwing from the shoulder up.

& to me, it's not a lack of arm strength that's the problem. It's thinking you have an arm strong enough to make a throw when you don't.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
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I am understanding it as elite arm strength as in throwing it down the field. Elite being the top 1%. I think Rodgers, Mahomes, Allen and Burrow are probably in there somewhere. Either way just 3-4 passers.

Mills ain’t on it. But there are other skills more important.
Burrow and Mills have about the same arm strength. The other 2 have elite arm strength.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Didn't Davis Mills have a very high ratio of completed passes longer than 20 yards in 2021 season?
They consider 15 yard a deep pass.

Mills' "deep ball stats" are inflated due to garbage time and inconsequential situations (think just before the half when the other team just need to make sure to keep everything in the field of play.

Take the Rams game for example.
Mills connected on four deep balls late in the fourth quarter with the Texans down by 38 and the Rams were playing their backups.


Scroll down to the play section.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
They consider 15 yard a deep pass.

Mills' "deep ball stats" are inflated due to garbage time and inconsequential situations (think just before the half when the other team just need to make sure to keep everything in the field of play.

Take the Rams game for example.
Mills connected on four deep balls late in the fourth quarter with the Texans down by 38 and the Rams were playing their backups.


Scroll down to the play section.
I agree but defense would also be licking chops to intercept a rookie QB.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
I agree but defense would also be licking chops to intercept a rookie QB.
The Rams weren't licking their chops in the fourth quarter.
That was why they played their backups.
When you're up by 38, feasting on a rookie QB makes zero sense.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
I am understanding it as elite arm strength as in throwing it down the field. Elite being the top 1%. I think Rodgers, Mahomes, Allen and Burrow are probably in there somewhere. Either way just 3-4 passers.

Mills ain’t on it. But there are other skills more important.
Look at the advance accuracy stats.


Mills had just two categories in which he ranked mediocre (16 and 17).
And like I was telling badboy, those stats were inflated due to garbage time.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
The Rams weren't licking their chops in the fourth quarter.
That was why they played their backups.
When you're up by 38, feasting on a rookie QB makes zero sense.
Well to be fair I was pointing at teams in general not one game. Backup players want to get stats also.
 

Hervoyel

BUENO!

I am not as well versed as some of y’all are in QB stuff, but it looks based on the video that Mills made a couple throws about 45 yards and the ball still had some zip in it and he was hitting the receiver in stride.

The Schaub 2.0 comparisons seem a little over done.

Granted it is a highlight video but I think this kid can QB. I am excited about this upcoming season.
Enjoyed that video. Are you guys sure we didn't win the Super Bowl last season? I don't think those other teams stopped us even once and I never saw them score.... ;)
 
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leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
They consider 15 yard a deep pass.

Mills' "deep ball stats" are inflated due to garbage time and inconsequential situations (think just before the half when the other team just need to make sure to keep everything in the field of play.

Take the Rams game for example.
Mills connected on four deep balls late in the fourth quarter with the Texans down by 38 and the Rams were playing their backups.


Scroll down to the play section.
I was at that game sadly. They were playing guys off the street after halftime
 

TexansBull

Hall of Fame
The Chargers game with a run game was hardly a garbage time game. Neither was the Titans, Seahawks etc....

The offense was bad against above avg defenses and good against below avg defenses. Not surprised at all.
I think we were talking about the individual plays of the game. There were no incomplete passes, interceptions, etc.

That is what a highlight video is. The best plays of any game.

Am I really having to explain what a highlight video is?
 

StarStruck

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
Caserio and Smith expressed high confidence in him at the forum this evening. The backups just in case made me more nervous.
 

maverick512000

Hall of Fame
Caserio and Smith expressed high confidence in him at the forum this evening. The backups just in case made me more nervous.
Meh, I wouldn't stress about it, Saints signed Bridgewater a couple of years back and paid him like a starter to play backup to Brees. Thing people forget is this is the only way this doesn't work out is if Mills is in that Carson Wentz or Derrick Carr category where you really can't tell if he's the guy or not. Otherwise if Mills sucks we get a high pick plus the Browns pick to trade up for a young gun and all Mills cost us was a 3rd and if Mills is good then we got a Russell Wilson type of deal by drafting our franchise guy outside the 1st round with no trade up cost. I kind of view this as rolling the dice but one of the die is loaded and the other is not, you know one good thing is going to happen now you just need the other thing to not completely suck.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Yeah you're right.
I was just looking at arm strength, and he can throw the ball around 50 yards in the air. Maybe more
Most guys who can spin it can throw it 50 yards..... if its just about throwing it the flat distance without regard for accuracy. I can damn near do that now at 42 years old & i haven't sniffed an NFL football team.

Both of them were around 39-41 yards at chest high level, like I had said.
Schaub had gone further than that.
I never thought Schaub had noodle arms; it was just not elite arm strentgh.
Lol, Schaub DEFINITELY had a noodle arm. The test isn't the deep ball b/c as i said above, 99.9% of qbs in the NFL can chunk it 50+ yards rather easily. The test is how much pop the ball has coming out of your hand when you have to throw it from a different arm slot or off-platform or from a "reload" & drive it down field. Balls Schaub threw had decent to good pop when he had a clean pocket and he could get his feet set or when he wasn't under pressure. When he didn't have that..which was basically the story of every playoff game we lost under him? That's when you saw the deficiencies in his arm strength & accuracy. Think of how many good solid throws with zip you saw Schaub make off platform 15+ air yards down the field in any game..there aren't many. The ones he did attempt were usually a little "floaty" or just bad. Teams knew that if they could move him off his spot, it was pretty much game over for him.

As for Mills, he doesn't have "elite" arm strength, but its definitely above average with room for improvement ... certainly much better than Schaub ever was at any point imo. You can pick pretty much any game he played in last year and see throws he made on the run that Schaub couldn't have made on his best day. He has to get better with his deep ball, but i'm confident that will get better as he gets comfy with who he's gonna have at WR...outside of Cooks that is.
 

michaelm

vox nihili
Most guys who can spin it can throw it 50 yards..... if its just about throwing it the flat distance without regard for accuracy. I can damn near do that now at 42 years old & i haven't sniffed an NFL football team.
Mills pass was very accurate. Hit the receiver in stride for a touchdown. In a game.
Probably not the same as a 42 year old, off the couch winging it for distance.

Like I said, his arm isn't elite, but people doing mental contortions to discount a perfect TD pass of nearly 50yds are reaching (not necessarily or entirely pointing toward you)
 

TexansBull

Hall of Fame
Before anyone starts...I'm not comparing Mills to Brady. When Brady came into the league, he didn't have an elite arm. Brady knew that arm strength was one of his weaknesses, so he worked hard to improve it. All we can hope for is that Mills works hard to fix his weaknesses.
To add to your point - a draft pick isn’t a finished product. A team is investing in potential contributors for the next 3-4 years depending on the the draft pick. Rarely do picks contribute immediately in their rookie year. It is easy for some positions like WR, but even Hopkins didn’t contribute that much year one. Even Mahomes sat and learned for the some of his rookie year.

Something about Mills that has me with high expectations is Mills got better as the year went on. That’s a fact.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Mills pass was very accurate. Hit the receiver in stride for a touchdown. In a game.
Probably not the same as a 42 year old, off the couch winging it for distance.

Like I said, his arm isn't elite, but people doing mental contortions to discount a perfect TD pass of nearly 50yds are reaching (not necessarily or entirely pointing toward you)
Some people just hate being wrong. His arm is plenty strong enough. It's as strong as Derrick and Dak's. Not as strong as Allen/Mahomes and Rodgers.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Before anyone starts...I'm not comparing Mills to Brady. When Brady came into the league, he didn't have an elite arm. Brady knew that arm strength was one of his weaknesses, so he worked hard to improve it. All we can hope for is that Mills works hard to fix his weaknesses.
Mills arm isn't a weakness. Don't buy into the BS that's being sold around here by a few posters.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Mills pass was very accurate. Hit the receiver in stride for a touchdown. In a game.
Probably not the same as a 42 year old, off the couch winging it for distance.

Like I said, his arm isn't elite, but people doing mental contortions to discount a perfect TD pass of nearly 50yds are reaching (not necessarily or entirely pointing toward you)
Ouch! i was agreeing with you man, you didnt have to kill my Paul Blake dreams lol
 

thunderkyss

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Before anyone starts...I'm not comparing Mills to Brady. When Brady came into the league, he didn't have an elite arm. Brady knew that arm strength was one of his weaknesses, so he worked hard to improve it. All we can hope for is that Mills works hard to fix his weaknesses.
I think people get too enamored with physical talent. No question physical talent in a QB is a huge advantage.

But learning to read & manipulate defenses is what separates Peyton Manning from Phillip Rivers or Matt Stafford. Tom Brady (who began his career as a game manager) from Ryan Tannehill or Matt Schaub.

Yes, I hope Davis works on his arm strength & pocket presence. & I hope he embraces the role of game manager. But above all that I hope he studies the game & becomes a game changer from the pocket
 

maverick512000

Hall of Fame
More so than elite arm I am hoping Mills shows he has an elite brain. I would rather have a QB that can read a defense like a book and sling it 10-15 yards and hit his receiver than I would a guy who can throw it a mile away but has to have a clean pocket and 5 seconds in order to do it. I do agree with Steel that people running down Mills arm are mostly just looking for something to run him down about because very rarely at an NFL level does a team lose because the QB didn't have a strong enough arm unless the game was dependent on a hail Mary pass in which case you were in trouble to begin with. Coaches are not going to let a truly weak arm passer play, they may adjust the game plan so there are shorter passes but that can be good in and of itself.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Most guys who can spin it can throw it 50 yards..... if its just about throwing it the flat distance without regard for accuracy. I can damn near do that now at 42 years old & i haven't sniffed an NFL football team.



Lol, Schaub DEFINITELY had a noodle arm. The test isn't the deep ball b/c as i said above, 99.9% of qbs in the NFL can chunk it 50+ yards rather easily. The test is how much pop the ball has coming out of your hand when you have to throw it from a different arm slot or off-platform or from a "reload" & drive it down field. Balls Schaub threw had decent to good pop when he had a clean pocket and he could get his feet set or when he wasn't under pressure. When he didn't have that..which was basically the story of every playoff game we lost under him? That's when you saw the deficiencies in his arm strength & accuracy. Think of how many good solid throws with zip you saw Schaub make off platform 15+ air yards down the field in any game..there aren't many. The ones he did attempt were usually a little "floaty" or just bad. Teams knew that if they could move him off his spot, it was pretty much game over for him.

As for Mills, he doesn't have "elite" arm strength, but its definitely above average with room for improvement ... certainly much better than Schaub ever was at any point imo. You can pick pretty much any game he played in last year and see throws he made on the run that Schaub couldn't have made on his best day. He has to get better with his deep ball, but i'm confident that will get better as he gets comfy with who he's gonna have at WR...outside of Cooks that is.
You can assume anything you want, but until Mills throw a ball with longer air yard than Schaub did, Mills doesn't prove anything yet.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
I think people get too enamored with physical talent. No question physical talent in a QB is a huge advantage.

But learning to read & manipulate defenses is what separates Peyton Manning from Phillip Rivers or Matt Stafford. Tom Brady (who began his career as a game manager) from Ryan Tannehill or Matt Schaub.

Yes, I hope Davis works on his arm strength & pocket presence. & I hope he embraces the role of game manager. But above all that I hope he studies the game & becomes a game changer from the pocket
We have to remember that good Schaub learned to get the ball out pretty quick.

4.770 yards, 29TDs 5 Ints, 8.0 AYA is not all that easy.

Mills was at a pedestrian 6.4 AYA.
That's about 25% less than Schaub.

Schaub was never at that low as a full time starter until 2013.
 


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