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Bryce Young vs CJ Stroud

Boris said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1637856923973214217
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Lol. Actually saw the entire review by Simms. Although he classified Richardson as 'Tier-3', he was very praising of him, calling him more advanced than he thought, although still raw. He also said he saw many examples of good reads and going through progressions, which surprised him, and he got better throughout the season.

I still think the people who deride Richardson are nuts. That guy has just as compact and efficient throwing motion as Stroud, bigger arm and much better everything measurables wise. To me based on projectability, he should be the #1 pick in the draft. Guy is going to be a stud with enough reps, unless he's unable to read defenses for some reason because his throwing will be just fine. He might only throw it 25 times a game like Hurts, but he has a chance to be the ultimate dual threat QB in time. Carolina should pick him #1 because of the upside. I really hope the Texans grab him if Carolina passes. No team is taking Levis or Hooker in front of Richardson, I can assure you.

Most won't agree with this take, but that's ok. Will be fun to review how it all turns out in 3 years.
 
ben.aires.smith said:
I still think the people who deride Richardson are nuts. That guy has just as compact and efficient throwing motion as Stroud, bigger arm and much better everything measurables wise. To me based on projectability, he should be the #1 pick in the draft. Guy is going to be a stud with enough reps, unless he's unable to read defenses for some reason because his throwing will be just fine.
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That's one of the things that bothers those nutty people. They believe that everything below the neck becomes irrelavent if a QB doesn't have what it takes above the neck.
 
ben.aires.smith said:
Lol. Actually saw the entire review by Simms. Although he classified Richardson as 'Tier-3', he was very praising of him, calling him more advanced than he thought, although still raw. He also said he saw many examples of good reads and going through progressions, which surprised him, and he got better throughout the season.

I still think the people who deride Richardson are nuts. That guy has just as compact and efficient throwing motion as Stroud, bigger arm and much better everything measurables wise. To me based on projectability, he should be the #1 pick in the draft. Guy is going to be a stud with enough reps, unless he's unable to read defenses for some reason because his throwing will be just fine. He might only throw it 25 times a game like Hurts, but he has a chance to be the ultimate dual threat QB in time. Carolina should pick him #1 because of the upside. I really hope the Texans grab him if Carolina passes. No team is taking Levis or Hooker in front of Richardson, I can assure you.

Most won't agree with this take, but that's ok. Will be fun to review how it all turns out in 3 years.
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Most of the nuts think it is nuts to take him at #2.
He's a long way from being an NFL starter as a rookie.
 
Lucky said:
That's one of the things that bothers those nutty people. They believe that everything below the neck becomes irrelavent if a QB doesn't have what it takes above the neck.
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Well, that's important obviously. But the one big advantage about Richardson is that he's built like a TE and runs like a WR1, so he can go Jalen Hurts on a team and grind them into the ground in the running game. And as the defense moves up to stop the run, it opens up the pass and 1-on-1. That's something a guy like Zach Wilson doesn't have (a guy that Chris Simms liked better than Lawrence lol). When a pocket passer sucks without the ability to run, he continues sucking.

Again, Richardson doesn't have to throw the ball 38 times like Mahomes to be effective. About 22-25 will do it, hitting deep strikes in which he is very capable, and getting that dual threat ground game going. He can process, just needs reps.
 
ben.aires.smith said:
But the one big advantage about Richardson is that he's built like a TE and runs like a WR1, so he can go Jalen Hurts on a team and grind them into the ground in the running game.
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If a team plans to buy into that type of offense, then Richardson will be their guy. That's not a come from behind type offense. Very limited.
 
Lucky said:
If a team plans to buy into that type of offense, then Richardson will be their guy. That's not a come from behind type offense. Very limited.
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I think the idea is to just score early and often and grind down defenses with TOP, like Philadelphia's offense did this year. This type of offense values efficiency in the pass with deep strike capability, with constant commitment to the run. Maybe not be Slowik's bag, but it can be quite successful. Baltimore and Buffalo play this style often as well.
 
ben.aires.smith said:
I think the idea is to just score early and often and grind down defenses with TOP, like Philadelphia's offense did this year. This type of offense values efficiency in the pass with deep strike capability, with constant commitment to the run. Maybe not be Slowik's bag, but it can be quite successful. Baltimore and Buffalo play this style often as well.
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My guess, remove AJ Brown from the Eagles offense....and their running game becomes much, much easier to shut down.
 
ben.aires.smith said:
I think the idea is to just score early and often and grind down defenses with TOP, like Philadelphia's offense did this year.
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It's a great plan, when executed. But even the Eagles threw over 30 times a game. It's still a passing league. And Richardson never showed he could control a college game with his arm. A long, long way to go to become an NFL QB.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
My guess, remove AJ Brown from the Eagles offense....and their running game becomes much, much easier to shut down.
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Well of course. Remove any WR1 from any offense the field becomes compressed. A given in any situation. Eagles offense is a good model to follow, if you like this type of offense. Buffalo also effective this way when Allen chooses to go more RPO due to weather conditions et al. Not saying the Texans should, but I wouldn't mind it either. Still don't have a WR1 though.
 
Who really knows, but I do give this more that usual credence because it's coming from former star LB, Thomas Davis. This guy will have connections and contacts within the highest levels of the organization. Lying season, but notable... Panthers probably haven't decided yet either. It's a close 3-way horserace currently.

If so, Texans will have access to Young or Stroud @ 2. IMO, if Young is available I think Texans are taking him.

"The Panthers traded for the No. 1 pick in the NFL Draft with the intention of taking a quarterback. In response to NFL Network’s Daniel Jeremiah predicting that Carolina would select Young, Davis said the Panthers would go with a more surprising pick.

“I don’t think he’s gonna be their pick,” Thomas Davis said of Young.

“There are a couple of guys upstairs that are enamored by the physical ability of Anthony Richardson.”


clutchpoints.com

Panthers: NFL Draft pick will be 'surprising', says Thomas Davis

The Carolina Panthers are eyeing someone other than Alabama quarterback Bryce Young atop the 2023 NFL Draft, according to Thomas Davis.
clutchpoints.com
 
ben.aires.smith said:
profootballtalk.nbcsports.com

Bryce Young declines to weigh in at Pro Day workout - ProFootballTalk

As he prepares to enter the NFL, former Crimson Tide quarterback Bryce Young has a pair of significant red flags. One is undeniably flapping in the breeze. The other is a little more fuzzy.His height was measured at the Scouting Combine as five feet, 10-1/8 inches. That’s what his height will be...
profootballtalk.nbcsports.com profootballtalk.nbcsports.com
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Disappointing that Young declined to weigh-in at his Pro Day. Bet he gained a lot of weight before the draft and lost it at his pro day to show well in the drills. He's given no measurables this pre-draft. He's standing on his performance. This really exemplifies his lack of size, speed and athleticism.
 
ben.aires.smith said:
Disappointing that Young declined to weigh-in at his Pro Day. Bet he gained a lot of weight before the draft and lost it at his pro day to show well in the drills. He's given no measurables this pre-draft. He's standing on his performance. This really exemplifies his lack of size, speed and athleticism.
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Why? Most folks including 32 teams watched him and know he has small frame. He has no lack of athleticism. He is what he's been for two seasons. If a team drafts Young it will not be because he did or did not weigh.
 
badboy said:
Why? Most folks including 32 teams watched him and know he has small frame. He has no lack of athleticism. He is what he's been for two seasons. If a team drafts Young it will not be because he did or did not weigh.
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I get it - speed, power and arm strength aren't his calling card. But not doing anything is kind of lame. There's no reason he couldn't have at least done the shuttle, which doesn't require all the attributes stated above. He didn't even weight in again. I skeptical he'll play at 200 lbs.
 
ben.aires.smith said:
profootballtalk.nbcsports.com

Bryce Young declines to weigh in at Pro Day workout - ProFootballTalk

As he prepares to enter the NFL, former Crimson Tide quarterback Bryce Young has a pair of significant red flags. One is undeniably flapping in the breeze. The other is a little more fuzzy.His height was measured at the Scouting Combine as five feet, 10-1/8 inches. That’s what his height will be...
profootballtalk.nbcsports.com profootballtalk.nbcsports.com
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I don’t care how “good” he is. He’s off my board.
 
ben.aires.smith said:
I get it - speed, power and arm strength aren't his calling card. But not doing anything is kind of lame. There's no reason he couldn't have at least done the shuttle, which doesn't require all the attributes stated above. He didn't even weight in again. I skeptical he'll play at 200 lbs.
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What more does he need to prove?
If he was 2" taller there would be no argument about who would be the #1 prospect in this draft.
 
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Bryce is a delicate jewel that should be measured and weighed to assess quality of the product. Failure to do that, only questions his authenticity.

As a buyer, I want all questions answered to my satisfaction. If Carolina takes CJ, I question whether the Texans should select Young or trade down?
 
Texansphan said:
What more does he need to prove?
If he was 2" taller there would be no argument about who would be the #1 prospect in this draft.
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thunderkyss said:
I don’t care how “good” he is. He’s off my board.
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I hear you... At least with Young he has a high floor. Does he have the endurance and upside? Will some of that out of structure playmaking translate? Hope Texans don't stuck in QB purgatory if he's drafted.
 
beerlover said:
Bryce is a delicate jewel that should be measured and weighed to assess quality of the product. Failure to do that, only questions his authenticity.

As a buyer, I want all questions answered to my satisfaction. If Carolina takes CJ, I question whether the Texans should select Young or trade down?
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Have to make sure to run the right offense to make Young most successful in the NFL: Make sure he throws it away consistently and gets down on runs. Break his propensity to stand in the pocket and take hits. Should have a timing based passing offense like Mike McDaniel deployed with Tua. I think Young can be successful with the right offense.
 
Texansphan said:
What more does he need to prove?
If he was 2" taller there would be no argument about who would be the #1 prospect in this draft.
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I donno... maybe. I would say more like 6'1 and 215 lbs would lock it. Not just size that worries but the lack of power arm. Tua was very successful without it so it's fine because he has touch and anticipation. Just don't think he'll make the same out of structure plays in the pros tho. I could live with a Young pick. The risk for me is him being 'mid', not that he won't be relatively successful.
 
ben.aires.smith said:
I donno... maybe. I would say more like 6'1 and 215 lbs would lock it. Not just size that worries but the lack of power arm. Tua was very successful without it so it's fine because he has touch and anticipation. Just don't think he'll make the same out of structure plays in the pros tho. I could live with a Young pick. The risk for me is him being 'mid', not that he won't be relatively successful.
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Sure he doesn't have the bazooka some guys have but he can make all the NFL throws.
How many guys are there out there with bazooka arms that have not won a SB ring?
 
ben.aires.smith said:
I get it - speed, power and arm strength aren't his calling card. But not doing anything is kind of lame. There's no reason he couldn't have at least done the shuttle, which doesn't require all the attributes stated above. He didn't even weight in again. I skeptical he'll play at 200 lbs.
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Again, there is no reason for him to do anything except throw. Why should he shuttle? To make us happy? It is known and stated everywhere he has NFL arm strength. Why say he doesn’t?
 
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ben.aires.smith said:
Have to make sure to run the right offense to make Young most successful in the NFL: Make sure he throws it away consistently and gets down on runs. Break his propensity to stand in the pocket and take hits. Should have a timing based passing offense like Mike McDaniel deployed with Tua. I think Young can be successful with the right offense.
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Don't most QBs need to be in the right offense? Drafting Earl Campbell for a team that passes mostly wouldn’t be utilizing him at his best.
 
badboy said:
Again, there is no reason for him to do anything except throw. Why should he shuttle? To make us happy? It is known and stated everywhere he has NFL arm strength. Why say he doesn’t?
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To dodge everything just proves his lack of athleticism. I understand why he didn't do it. I wouldn't advise him to either. Just would like my QB to be more atheltically gifted as a preference. Bryce doesn't have that. He just has elite intangilbles and poise though, which may be enough to make him the best QB this draft. I mean, look at Tom Brady right?
 
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ben.aires.smith said:
To dodge everything just proves his lack of athleticism. I understand why he didn't do it. I wouldn't advise him to either. Just would like my QB to be more atheltically gifted as a preference. Bryce doesn't have that. He just has elite intangilbles and poise though, which may be enough to make him the best QB this draft. I mean, look at Tom Brady right?
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How athletic do you wish him to be though? Personally I think he’s athletic enough, he’s definitely not a statue and atleast moves quicker than mills
 
Decim8 said:
How athletic do you wish him to be though? Personally I think he’s athletic enough, he’s definitely not a statue and atleast moves quicker than mills
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I think Bryce is athletic, but not athletically gifted if that make sense. He moves well in the pocket and navigates it well. He's just not fast, strong or have an arm that can drive the ball unless he can step into it.
 
ben.aires.smith said:
To dodge everything just proves his lack of athleticism. I understand why he didn't do it. I wouldn't advise him to either. Just would like my QB to be more atheltically gifted as a preference. Bryce doesn't have that. He just has elite intangilbles and poise though, which may be enough to make him the best QB this draft. I mean, look at Tom Brady right?
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sounds a bit more than you indicate.
www.profootballnetwork.com

Bryce Young, QB, Alabama | NFL Draft Scouting Report

He was the first overall pick, and now he's confirmed to be the Carolina Panthers' starter. What does Bryce Young's scouting report say about what he brings?
www.profootballnetwork.com www.profootballnetwork.com
 
JB said:
This is just too funny. You're trying too hard to hedge your bets
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Not really hedging. You don't have to be all-in on a guy to sort of like him. That's me with Bryce. No doubt he can play and has a lot of good attributes you want to see. He's just small and doesn't have great tools, but has a natural playmaking/QB ability. A toughy to project how good he can become, but the floor is high.
 
ben.aires.smith said:
I think Bryce is athletic, but not athletically gifted if that make sense. He moves well in the pocket and navigates it well.
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That's also an accurate description of the pocket demeanor of the current QB GOAT, who of course would be one Patrick MaHomes.
Now I'm not in any way speaking of Patricks arm or general skills & talents, but just his elusiveness and mobility and moxie in the pocket.
OH BTW if you didn't know Patrick's reported 40 time was 4.80, obviously very unimpressive, right ? But he's still a slippery rascal
in the pocket as is Young, but I am like Be.Aires.Smith still somewhat uncomfortable with Young's reluctance to disclose more about himself than he has up to now.
So I dunno if Young's reticence would be a show-stopper for Casserio & Demeco, but I doubt it ?
 
Lucky said:
What exactly do you think Young is hiding? If the Texans draft Young, then ask him to get on a nutrition and workout plan to gain weight, I'm sure he would comply.
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In particular I'd like to see more info on his weight which I think was reported @ 15-20 lbs higher at the Combine than his playing weight in the Fall of '22 ? What's he weighting in at right now, i.e., has his weight stabilized or is he still gaining or back down to his playing weight from last Fall ?
And do the prospects provide basic info from a standard physical exam like BP & blood chemistry which is all relevant especially with these recent weight fluctuations ?
 
IDEXAN said:
In particular I'd like to see more info on his weight which I think was reported @ 15-20 lbs higher at the Combine than his playing weight in the Fall of '22 ? What's he weighting in at right now, i.e., has his weight stabilized or is he still gaining or back down to his playing weight from last Fall ?
And do the prospects provide basic info from a standard physical exam like BP & blood chemistry which is all relevant especially with these recent weight fluctuations ?
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Young says he played at around 194 in the fall. His combine weight was 204.
 
I don't think there's enough crows available to make a big enough serving, but by the fall of 2024, there's going to be some massive crow eating in these parts. 1679675598286.png

I'm just here for the popcorn at this point.
 

I will say this that Bryce Young has grown on me. The more I watch interviews of him he seems like a really solid young man. I will be happy with Stroud or You g. I think that both have great (but different) leadership styles. I’m really looking forward to seeing how the draft goes.
 
https://touchdownwire.usatoday.com/lists/bryce-young-size-pro-day-2023-nfl-draft/
[…] His height of 5-foot-10 and ⅛ put him in the first percentile of all draftable quarterbacks since 1999 (per MockDraftable.com), and his weight of 204 pounds put him in the sixth percentile. In pro football history, the list of quarterbacks any starting experience at a height of 5-foot-10 to 5-foot-11, and 200 to 204 pounds is a short (sorry) one, with Sonny Jurgensen leading the list, along with 1987 strike quarterback Sean Payton (yes, that Sean Payton), and Seneca Wallace as the only quarterback from the new millennium. If we drop the weight down to 185-190, which was more likely Young’s actual playing weight, the list is even less spectacular, especially in the modern era.

How tall are you as a thrower?

One reason the ball just explodes off Young’s hand is that he’s generally mechanically integrated — everything works together for the optimal result. And here’s where his throwing height — where the ball comes out — is crucial. Young doesn’t really have any weird stuff in his delivery that would affect his process. He has a compact, quick, overhand delivery, and though he can adjust his arm angles as need be, that’s the default setting, as it should be.

When throwing directly over the middle in 2022, Young completed 63 of 90 passes for 839 yards, 340 air yards, seven touchdowns, two interceptions, and a passer rating of 115.9. It’s the kind of thing that isn’t a problem for shorter quarterbacks until it is, and in Young’s case, it hasn’t been yet.

This 53-yard pass to Isaiah Bond against Arkansas showed not only how Young could navigate a cross blitz, but also how well he moves to the open spots of the line to see open targets. This is Young moving up in the pocket, and throwing a 49-air yard dart.

[Vid]

Moving to the open lane is an adaptative strategy adopted by any great shorter quarterback from Fran Tarkenton to Drew Brees to Russell Wilson. Young has perfected it, because he has had to.

[Vid]

How do you handle pressure, and compromised throwing lanes?

The first thing you need to know about blitzing Bryce Young is that… well, don’t do it. Against six or more pass-rushers in 2022, Young completed 20 of 34 passes for 318 yards, 146 air yards, 12 touchdowns, no interceptions, and a passer rating of 129.7. As they say, if you come at the king, you’d best not miss. Young has what Patrick Mahomes has developed to an alien degree — an instinctual feel for where people are in the pocket, and how to get out of it to make the big play. That’s how he can make ridiculous scramble drill throws like this one against LSU.



There’s also the issue of defenders getting right in his face — well, how does he do when some giant dude beats his blocker and prevents Young from seeing things as he would like to? Ask Kansas State defensive lineman Jaylen Pickle, who swore he had Young dead to rights, and had to watch helplessly as Young threw this 47-yard bomb to receiver Jermaine Burton.

[Vid]

How do you react to big hits?

As Saban said after Young’s pro day, the only time Young was injured in his collegiate career was a shoulder malady that happened against Arkansas when he tried to break his own fall when he was running away from linebacker Drew Sanders.



That was in Week 5 of the 2022 season. Young came back for Alabama’s Week 7 game against Tennessee, and completed 35 of 52 passes for 455 yards, two touchdowns, no interceptions, and a passer rating of 107.5.

Aside from that, Young seems to have a good sense of avoiding the big hit, which is important. He was sacked 19 times last season, but he’s smart about giving himself up as things start to fall apart.

[Vid]

Even when he’s blindsided, he’ll fold nicely and live to fight to the next down.

[Vid]

If Young goes to an NFL team with a horrible offensive line and gets pummeled constantly, could that negatively affect his NFL future? Sure, but you could say that of most quarterbacks.

Maybe Bryce Young's outlier status is both good and bad.

NFL teams do not like to take risks on unknown commodities. They also do not appreciate being put in a position to have to gamble on outliers. Safe decisions can save your job, even if they don’t work out, because hey, at least you played to type.

In that regard, Bryce Young is a “problem” for NFL teams, because he’s going to force them to think outside the box. […]
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He didnt weigh in again for a reason. These guys arent making decisions just based on a whim.

Maybe nfl teams wont care, but it is something to consider when a guy who who's only major concerns are about his size doesn't weigh in again to show that he can hold onto the weight that he put on for his combine weigh in.
 
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IDEXAN said:
And do the prospects provide basic info from a standard physical exam like BP & blood chemistry which is all relevant especially with these recent weight fluctuations ?
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What are you going to do with Young's blood chemistry? Clone him? LOL! This is getting nuts.

I'm writing a new screenplay. Bryce Young: The Replicant.

Evil Scientist: I can make you better Bryce. With my special DNA coding, you will become 6'10" 294 lbs. No one will deny you as the #1 overall pick!

Bryce: But I like the way I am. I fit into all of the best designer clothing.

Evil Scientist: No, Bryce. You must become bigger. Stronger. For the Draftniks.

Bryce: I don't know if I can keep the weight on. I like skinless boiled chicken. And kale.

Evil Scientist: You will eat 15 lbs of red meat a day and like it!!!
 
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