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Bryce Young vs CJ Stroud

steelbtexan said:
I could've sworn Aiyuk was a 1st

McCaffery is a 1st

Kittles and Deebo fell because of injury but were 1st rd talents.
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They didn't draft McCaffery. Deebo was a 2nd and Kittles a 5th. If you want to tell me Deebo was a 1st rd talent, maybe,but its not like he had a great college career. They saw something in him and they maximized it, like Kittles. Aiyuuk is solid, nothing special, but he fits in what they do
 
McCaffrey was a 1st rd pick by the Panthers so yes that's a 1st rd pick.

Deebo fell to the 2nd because of injury.

Aiyuk was a 1st

Kittle fell because of several injuries in college, but he tore up the Combine.
 
I'm telling y'all now. I'm going to be peeeISed off if they draft B.Young with 1.2

Not so bad 1.12

Better if 1.17 or lower.

But after the draft, B.Young will be sliced bread regardless where they take him
 
What did Bryce Young do to y’all? Much better pick #2 than last years pick @ #3.

Sold the farm already with that Hail Mary end of Colt game to lose 1st overall leverage, to trade down with Massive Returns, that belongs to Chicago and they already drafted their QB.

Teams will be less willing to trade down with Texans because for one, Bryce will be gone, and two Texans need a QB, yet will be asking too much, sorry no takers guess we have to select a QB. So either way your going to be pissed off.

:koolaid:
 
beerlover said:
What did Bryce Young do to y’all? Much better pick #2 than last years pick @ #3.
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What do you think about the Gardner/Stingley thing? Some people are saying Gardner was the better choice because of the injury history of Stingley.

Similarly history hasn't provided many examples of short, skinny QBs.

When a QB has the complete package he's hands down the best prospect in his class. The more he's removed from the ideal the further removed he is from the top.

Patrick Mahomes was not considered a top 5 prospect in his class. Why not?

Ben Roethlisberger was not considered a top prospect in his class, why not?

Aaron Rodgers was not considered a top prospect in his class, why not?

For Bryce Young to be considered a top 5 prospect in this class one or both of the following must be true.
  • Bryce Young is a much, much better prospect than Mahomes, Roethlisberger, & Rodgers
  • This is a very bad draft class

Which is it?
 
thunderkyss said:
What do you think about the Gardner/Stingley thing? Some people are saying Gardner was the better choice because of the injury history of Stingley.

Similarly history hasn't provided many examples of short, skinny QBs.

When a QB has the complete package he's hands down the best prospect in his class. The more he's removed from the ideal the further removed he is from the top.

Patrick Mahomes was not considered a top 5 prospect in his class. Why not?

Ben Roethlisberger was not considered a top prospect in his class, why not?

Aaron Rodgers was not considered a top prospect in his class, why not?

For Bryce Young to be considered a top 5 prospect in this class one or both of the following must be true.
  • Bryce Young is a much, much better prospect than Mahomes, Roethlisberger, & Rodgers
  • This is a very bad draft class

Which is it?
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Closest thing to My Homy, was he worth it? How much would he fetch now?
 
thunderkyss said:
What do you think about the Gardner/Stingley thing? Some people are saying Gardner was the better choice because of the injury history of Stingley.

Similarly history hasn't provided many examples of short, skinny QBs.

When a QB has the complete package he's hands down the best prospect in his class. The more he's removed from the ideal the further removed he is from the top.

Patrick Mahomes was not considered a top 5 prospect in his class. Why not?

Ben Roethlisberger was not considered a top prospect in his class, why not?

Aaron Rodgers was not considered a top prospect in his class, why not?

For Bryce Young to be considered a top 5 prospect in this class one or both of the following must be true.
  • Bryce Young is a much, much better prospect than Mahomes, Roethlisberger, & Rodgers
  • This is a very bad draft class

Which is it?
Click to expand...
The latter.
 
thunderkyss said:
Patrick Mahomes was not considered a top 5 prospect in his class. Why not?

Ben Roethlisberger was not considered a top prospect in his class, why not?

Aaron Rodgers was not considered a top prospect in his class, why not?
Click to expand...
Patrick Mahomes was a polarizing prospect. He played in the Air Raid offense. Knock #1. His mechanics were poor ( and still threw the hell out of the ball). Knock #2. Mahomes had a losing record as a starting QB. Not really his fault. But...Knock #3. It's also important to remember that Mahomes did sit his rookie year. He wasn't ready until Andy Reid got his hands on him.

Roethlisberger went #11 in the draft. A pretty top prospect. Yes, Eli and Rivers went ahead of Ben. Robert Gallery was considered one of the great OL prospects of all time (whiff). Larry Fitzgerald was considered a great WR prospect. Sean Taylor was considered one of the great safety prospects. Ditto Kellen Winslow Jr. at TE. 2004 was a stacked draft.

Aaron Rodgers was supposed to go #1. Then he didn't. And dropped. And dropped. No one has ever explained why. Other than teams didn't expect Rodgers to be available and didn't do their homework on him. 3 RBs went in top 5. Things that happened in 2005 don't happen in 2023. But Aaron Rodgers was considered the top prospect by plenty.
 
Lucky said:
Patrick Mahomes was a polarizing prospect. He played in the Air Raid offense. Knock #1. His mechanics were poor ( and still threw the hell out of the ball). Knock #2. Mahomes had a losing record as a starting QB. Not really his fault. But...Knock #3. It's also important to remember that Mahomes did sit his rookie year. He wasn't ready until Andy Reid got his hands on him.

Roethlisberger went #11 in the draft. A pretty top prospect. Yes, Eli and Rivers went ahead of Ben. Robert Gallery was considered one of the great OL prospects of all time (whiff). Larry Fitzgerald was considered a great WR prospect. Sean Taylor was considered one of the great safety prospects. Ditto Kellen Winslow Jr. at TE. 2004 was a stacked draft.

Aaron Rodgers was supposed to go #1. Then he didn't. And dropped. And dropped. No one has ever explained why. Other than teams didn't expect Rodgers to be available and didn't do their homework on him. 3 RBs went in top 5. Things that happened in 2005 don't happen in 2023. But Aaron Rodgers was considered the top prospect by plenty.
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All facts! I wanted the Titans to draft Rodgers in that draft because McNair was having back problems. Once again, posters, not you seem to forget the other qbs drafted by Jeff Tedford in college who turned into bums. Honestly, after Rodgers 1st couple of years, they didn't know he would make it until they changed his delivery. I mean they drafted 2 qb's in the same draft they handed him the reins. You accurately pointed out, he was a top prospect who after teams already had their qb passed on him.
 
There is a war going on between those who want Stroud/Young who others wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole. What's poor Cal to think, it befuddles the mind.
:hankpalm:
 
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thunderkyss said:
What do you think about the Gardner/Stingley thing? Some people are saying Gardner was the better choice because of the injury history of Stingley.

Similarly history hasn't provided many examples of short, skinny QBs.

When a QB has the complete package he's hands down the best prospect in his class. The more he's removed from the ideal the further removed he is from the top.

Patrick Mahomes was not considered a top 5 prospect in his class. Why not?

Ben Roethlisberger was not considered a top prospect in his class, why not?

Aaron Rodgers was not considered a top prospect in his class, why not?

For Bryce Young to be considered a top 5 prospect in this class one or both of the following must be true.
  • Bryce Young is a much, much better prospect than Mahomes, Roethlisberger, & Rodgers
  • This is a very bad draft class

Which is it?
Click to expand...

I am not going to say that it is a bad draft class, because there are always good football players to be found, but from what I can tell NFL scouting departments are going to have to earn their money.

Anderson and Carter have more questions than the clear top 5 ranking suggests. Anderson does not have the athletic profile that other number 1 overall pass rushers have displayed. Carter has even more questions as he not going test off the charts either and is a better name than consistent production, but his best is elite.
 
AcresHomesTexan said:
I have seen message board GMs and sports radio callers say don't draft a QB at the top, but not the paid draft experts or the exNFL execs say the say thing. FWIW
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Anytime a team has a high pick, fans on mssg boards want the team to trade down. I remember last year how many fans on this board were talking about drafting Young or Stroud. Now its Wiilliams and Maye next season. Guess what, its going to keep changing every year because drafting a qb is scary.
 
leebigeztx said:
Anytime a team has a high pick, fans on mssg boards want the team to trade down. I remember last year how many fans on this board were talking about drafting Young or Stroud. Now its Wiilliams and Maye next season. Guess what, its going to keep changing every year because drafting a qb is scary.
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It's not really scary.

Just dont settle
 
leebigeztx said:
Anytime a team has a high pick, fans on mssg boards want the team to trade down. I remember last year how many fans on this board were talking about drafting Young or Stroud. Now its Wiilliams and Maye next season. Guess what, its going to keep changing every year because drafting a qb is scary.
Click to expand...

Message board GMs always think trading down is the answer to everything and trading up is desperation except when it is the most obvious prospect combined with an extreme need.

Next year, Caleb Williams all of a sudden might not be disciplined in the pocket and won't be able to rely upon running around for 8 seconds regularly in the NFL. And why couldn't USC beat Utah and freaking Tulane if Caleb was all of that?

Drake Maye will look as having more Daniel Jones to his game than Trevor Lawerence. Maye being 0-4 with under 300 yards, under 60 percent completion percentage, 4tds/4ints to end this season will be actual talking points.

This year's QBs get put under the microscope and next year's guys are distance love until a team starts walking toward that dude. Young was undersized last year and Stroud didn't use feet enough 2021
 
Wait for Alabama and Ohio States Pro Day then talk to me about passing on them for he who has not been named in next years class. Enjoy the process :wesmantexanfan:

Alabama will conduct a Pro Timing Day for rising seniors on Wednesday, March 8 at 2:00 p.m. Alabama will conduct a Pro Timing Day for draft-eligible players on Thursday, March 23 at 10:00 a.m.

Ohio State will conduct a Pro Timing Day for draft-eligible players on Wednesday, March 22 at 11:00 a.m. Ohio State will conduct a Pro Timing Day for rising seniors on Wednesday, April 19 at 9:00 a.m.
 
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Young fits DeMeco's system and will have a decent first season.
Teams will adjust to him after they have some film on him, but by that time Young will have gained some valuable experience in the NFL.
 
AcresHomesTexan said:
I am not going to say that it is a bad draft class, because there are always good football players to be found, but from what I can tell NFL scouting departments are going to have to earn their money.

Anderson and Carter have more questions than the clear top 5 ranking suggests. Anderson does not have the athletic profile that other number 1 overall pass rushers have displayed. Carter has even more questions as he not going test off the charts either and is a better name than consistent production, but his best is elite.
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Great points on a draft class where the profiles don't always match the production. It will take some out of the box evaluations this year. Analytics are great in telling you what has happened in the past. Not as great in predicting what will happen in the future.
 
AcresHomesTexan said:
Message board GMs always think trading down is the answer to everything and trading up is desperation except when it is the most obvious prospect combined with an extreme need.

Next year, Caleb Williams all of a sudden might not be disciplined in the pocket and won't be able to rely upon running around for 8 seconds regularly in the NFL. And why couldn't USC beat Utah and freaking Tulane if Caleb was all of that?

Drake Maye will look as having more Daniel Jones to his game than Trevor Lawerence. Maye being 0-4 with under 300 yards, under 60 percent completion percentage, 4tds/4ints to end this season will be actual talking points.

This year's QBs get put under the microscope and next year's guys are distance love until a team starts walking toward that dude. Young was undersized last year and Stroud didn't use feet enough 2021
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I've always been a trade up guy.

Quality over quantity.

You either believe the 2024 class is better or you don't and you should draft accordingly. I would be on board with picking a QB this year if the Texans were a QB away from being a good team, or there is a generational QB available at 1-2. That QB isn't in this draft. IMHO
 
Lucky said:
Patrick Mahomes was a polarizing prospect. He played in the Air Raid offense. Knock #1. His mechanics were poor ( and still threw the hell out of the ball). Knock #2. Mahomes had a losing record as a starting QB. Not really his fault. But...Knock #3. It's also important to remember that Mahomes did sit his rookie year. He wasn't ready until Andy Reid got his hands on him.

Roethlisberger went #11 in the draft. A pretty top prospect. Yes, Eli and Rivers went ahead of Ben. Robert Gallery was considered one of the great OL prospects of all time (whiff). Larry Fitzgerald was considered a great WR prospect. Sean Taylor was considered one of the great safety prospects. Ditto Kellen Winslow Jr. at TE. 2004 was a stacked draft.

Aaron Rodgers was supposed to go #1. Then he didn't. And dropped. And dropped. No one has ever explained why. Other than teams didn't expect Rodgers to be available and didn't do their homework on him. 3 RBs went in top 5. Things that happened in 2005 don't happen in 2023. But Aaron Rodgers was considered the top prospect by plenty.
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Trent Dilfer
Kyle Boller
Akili Smith
David Carr
Joey Harrington


A huge part of why Rodgers dropped like he did was he was a Jeff Tedford prospect…& his guys up to that point hadn’t fared well at all as top qb prospects; and he started to get a bad rap.
 
steelbtexan said:
I've always been a trade up guy.

Quality over quantity.

You either believe the 2024 class is better or you don't and you should draft accordingly. I would be on board with picking a QB this year if the Texans were a QB away from being a good team, or there is a generational QB available at 1-2. That QB isn't in this draft. IMHO
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Everything that I have learned about the draft process says that Scouts are aware of the guys in 2024 and may have a loose grade on them, but have NOT and will not do a full and thorough draft evaluation until next fall.
 
AcresHomesTexan said:
Everything that I have learned about the draft process says that Scouts are aware of the guys in 2024 and may have a loose grade on them, but have NOT and will not do a full and thorough draft evaluation until next fall.
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Troy Chapman said that Caserio looks 2 yrs ahead. RS looked 3 years ahead according to Chapman.
 
steelbtexan said:
Troy Chapman said that Caserio looks 2 yrs ahead. RS looked 3 years ahead according to Chapman.
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Do you have a link, so we can check context? Because I guarantee he wasn't talking about draft prospects, but players that were on his team.
 
Mr teX said:
Trent Dilfer
Kyle Boller
Akili Smith
David Carr
Joey Harrington


A huge part of why Rodgers dropped like he did was he was a Jeff Tedford prospect…& his guys up to that point hadn’t fared well at all as top qb prospects; and he started to get a bad rap.
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Yep and thats why I don't talk about a player not succeeding from a particular program. You have to judge every prospect differently. Just because those other Saban qbs didn't grade well as nfl prospects, doesn't mean all of them will grade out as bad. Tahj Boyd had hype as a junior, being compared to Steve McNair, as a senior, guess what? He's 1 read or whatever. DW4 came through and had on field success and Lawrence looks like he's on the way. Penn St rbs are viewed the same, but then we got Barkley.
 
thunderkyss said:
For Bryce Young to be considered a top 5 prospect in this class one or both of the following must be true.
  • Bryce Young is a much, much better prospect than Mahomes, Roethlisberger, & Rodgers
  • This is a very bad draft class
Click to expand...

Or it could be that those other three QB's were severely underrated just like a lot of guys who turn out to be studs and were picked later in the draft or even go undrafted.
 
leebigeztx said:
Its not settling. Its about doing the homework and riding with it. Williams plays alot like Watson, yet you didn't like the way Watson played at qb. You throw out the term winner alot, but Williams led team lost to Utah 2 times and Tulane. Does that mean something to you?
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If you draft a QB this yr you're settling. IMHO

There's things that bother me somewhat about Williams game. But he throws with much better accuracy/anticipation than Derrick ever has.

I watched the 1st Utah game and the Tulane game. Those losses were more about USC not being able to tackle. They were terrible. The 2nd game Williams got hurt in the 2nd Utah game but played fairly well considering he was playing hurt. He does leave the pocket a little bit more than I would like and sometimes doesn't take the easy throws. I'm thinking these things can be corrected. As of right now he's my QB1 but let see how next season goes. There are 2 other QB's that I like more than any QB in this class.
 
steelbtexan said:
If you draft a QB this yr you're settling. IMHO

There's things that bother me somewhat about Williams game. But he throws with much better accuracy/anticipation than Derrick ever has.

I watched the 1st Utah game and the Tulane game. Those losses were more about USC not being able to tackle. They were terrible. The 2nd game Williams got hurt in the 2nd Utah game but played fairly well considering he was playing hurt. He does leave the pocket a little bit more than I would like and sometimes doesn't take the easy throws. I'm thinking these things can be corrected. As of right now he's my QB1 but let see how next season goes. There are 2 other QB's that I like more than any QB in this class.
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Thats your opinion in terms of settling. In terms of Williams v Watson anticipation, go look how long he holds the ball especially in college. He holds the ball way longer than Watson did in college.You're not going to agree because we know your feelings.
 
steelbtexan said:
If you draft a QB this yr you're settling. IMHO

There's things that bother me somewhat about Williams game. But he throws with much better accuracy/anticipation than Derrick ever has.

I watched the 1st Utah game and the Tulane game. Those losses were more about USC not being able to tackle. They were terrible. The 2nd game Williams got hurt in the 2nd Utah game but played fairly well considering he was playing hurt. He does leave the pocket a little bit more than I would like and sometimes doesn't take the easy throws. I'm thinking these things can be corrected. As of right now he's my QB1 but let see how next season goes. There are 2 other QB's that I like more than any QB in this class.
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Same type of player excepts Watson is probably a little bigger and Williams is probably a tad faster. He's a playmaker who makes plays and will hold the ball. Now you think he can be coached out of it, but we've seen HOF type of guys who couldn't be coached out of this style including Ben,Rodgers, and Wilson. Mahomes wouldn't be Mahomes without his improv skills.
 
leebigeztx said:
Thats your opinion in terms of settling. In terms of Williams v Watson anticipation, go look how long he holds the ball especially in college. He holds the ball way longer than Watson did in college.You're not going to agree because we know your feelings.
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I will admit that they do have some similarities. Williams has more god given talent though. You're about to talk me out of Williams as QB1. Lets see if he improves next season.
 
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