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2023 TEXANS DRAFT DISCUSSION
- Thread starter gwallaia
- Start date
You can remind them lol
I could answer this post for you. But I've promised others not to share info.
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
Well, that would give us a top 10 pick then.
The AFC North is going to be tough. I can easily see the Browns finishing in the cellar. Whether that's still 6-8 wins or so, or 3-6, I don't know. I would imagine Watson plays better than he did last year but you never know. He got paid, maybe that's enough for him.
SMH
TheRealJoker
Hall of Fame
Watson played well in 2020 and the Texans won 4 games. I could see that happening to the Browns. But i’d prefer the Browns to lose and Watson play poorly…
I see the Browns pick being a top 10 pick. I doubt the Texans/Cards pick will be 1-1 or 1-2, but it will probably be a top 10 pick too.
Thorn
Dirty Old Man
For a multitude of reasons I would love for that to happen. Not just for a better pick, but just to see Cleveland fail. Hoping for Cleveland to fail is just as high on my wish for failure list as Dallas. Even the other AFC South teams rank below Cleveland and Dallas on my wish to fail list. LOL
Cleveland is the team I root for to lose more than any other team in the NFL. Everybody should be rooting for the sexual predator to fail miserably. The fact that if they fail, the Texans get a higher draft pick is just the cherry on top.
Still haven’t seen a clear answer on whose 2024 1st we traded.
Texansphan
Football connoisseur
Ours.
Then let’s make it a low one (as in 32)
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Most all of these "suggested plans" are ones that any team would want to make for their quarterbacks. Young has thin bone structure which limits the amount of muscle mass he can legitimately carry. Bones in an average bone build will make up ~13-15% of total body weight. Research has found how much muscle any individual can legitimately pack onto his frame: five pounds for every pound of bone. Genetics plays into if the person can attain this level of muscle build, and keep it. Another set of factors to keep in mind, at the upper limit, performance may be affected and the ligaments, tendons and joints will be put under significant stress......making them all more susceptible to injury.
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Scott Fitterer details Panthers’ plans for dealing with Bryce Young’s height, weight
Posted by Mike Florio on May 4, 2023, 9:57 PM EDT
The Panthers made quarterback Bryce Young the first overall pick in the 2023 draft despite the fact that he has non-prototypical height and weight. In a recent interview with #PFTPM, Panthers G.M. Scott Fitterer addressed the extent to which Young’s size impacted their analysis of him, and their plans for him.
“I think it’s something I’ve learned from [G.M.] John Schneider in Seattle,” Fitterer said regarding Young’s height. “What are the compensating factors? John went through that when he was looking at Russell [Wilson]. The one thing you said, ‘How’s his height going to affect him?’ Everyone was talking about, ‘He’s five-ten’. OK, what are the limitations here?
“Usually on a shorter quarterback, that’s being able to throw over the middle of the field for the first eight to 10 yards. One thing about Bryce is he can see over the middle of the field. We did the heat map with him where a lot of his completions were right over the middle of the field. Guys who are six-three, six-four, getting balls batted down, throwing over the middle, lower completion rate. The one thing about Bryce, he had a really high completion rate. He only had two batted balls and then you’re like, ‘OK, this guy understands how to slide in the pocket, how to find the windows and the throwing lanes.’ There’s a real art to that and he makes it look so easy. . . . They’re very subtle movements. He’s finding that lane, he’s throwing the ball. We didn’t think the height would be a factor with him. It was something we definitely studied, and you have to study it because it’s a real thing, but he does have those compensating factors.”
Although height can’t be added, weight can. Fitterer believes that, in time, it will come.
“Again, that’s another something that we really talked about,” Bitterer said. “How’s he gonna hold up? You do study guys like Tua [Tagovailoa] or other players. We can build up his body. One thing coming from Alabama, they have all the resources. He’s coming from a program that has all the resources.
“But we do think as his body matures, he will add mass. We will get him on a strength program that will bulk him up. I think the rules now in the NFL where you can’t land on quarterbacks with the body weight, that plays into it.”
Another strategy for helping a smaller guy is to ensure the smaller guy doesn’t get hit as much.
“The one thing about Bryce, he does get rid of the ball a lot of times before he takes a hit,” Fitterer said. “He’s not a guy that’s going to stand in the pocket and hold onto the ball for four seconds when that ball should be out at three. He will avoid some of those hits. He’s very elusive in the pocket. There’s a way that we are going to plan. There’s things we’re asking him to do like, ‘Hey, just throw the ball away, live to fight another day. You don’t need to stand in the pocket for the last second on this second-down play. Let’s just get the third-down and not take that unnecessary hit.’”
Fitterer also said the Panthers are focused on improving the interior of their offensive line, in order to prevent the disruption that can happen up the middle, especially with a shorter quarterback.
“If we can build it really stout up the middle, we think that’ll also help Bryce,” Fitterer said.
It’s good that they have a plan. The challenge now becomes making it work. It’s a calculated risk. The reward could be significant.
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Scott Fitterer details Panthers’ plans for dealing with Bryce Young’s height, weight
Posted by Mike Florio on May 4, 2023, 9:57 PM EDT
The Panthers made quarterback Bryce Young the first overall pick in the 2023 draft despite the fact that he has non-prototypical height and weight. In a recent interview with #PFTPM, Panthers G.M. Scott Fitterer addressed the extent to which Young’s size impacted their analysis of him, and their plans for him.
“I think it’s something I’ve learned from [G.M.] John Schneider in Seattle,” Fitterer said regarding Young’s height. “What are the compensating factors? John went through that when he was looking at Russell [Wilson]. The one thing you said, ‘How’s his height going to affect him?’ Everyone was talking about, ‘He’s five-ten’. OK, what are the limitations here?
“Usually on a shorter quarterback, that’s being able to throw over the middle of the field for the first eight to 10 yards. One thing about Bryce is he can see over the middle of the field. We did the heat map with him where a lot of his completions were right over the middle of the field. Guys who are six-three, six-four, getting balls batted down, throwing over the middle, lower completion rate. The one thing about Bryce, he had a really high completion rate. He only had two batted balls and then you’re like, ‘OK, this guy understands how to slide in the pocket, how to find the windows and the throwing lanes.’ There’s a real art to that and he makes it look so easy. . . . They’re very subtle movements. He’s finding that lane, he’s throwing the ball. We didn’t think the height would be a factor with him. It was something we definitely studied, and you have to study it because it’s a real thing, but he does have those compensating factors.”
Although height can’t be added, weight can. Fitterer believes that, in time, it will come.
“Again, that’s another something that we really talked about,” Bitterer said. “How’s he gonna hold up? You do study guys like Tua [Tagovailoa] or other players. We can build up his body. One thing coming from Alabama, they have all the resources. He’s coming from a program that has all the resources.
“But we do think as his body matures, he will add mass. We will get him on a strength program that will bulk him up. I think the rules now in the NFL where you can’t land on quarterbacks with the body weight, that plays into it.”
Another strategy for helping a smaller guy is to ensure the smaller guy doesn’t get hit as much.
“The one thing about Bryce, he does get rid of the ball a lot of times before he takes a hit,” Fitterer said. “He’s not a guy that’s going to stand in the pocket and hold onto the ball for four seconds when that ball should be out at three. He will avoid some of those hits. He’s very elusive in the pocket. There’s a way that we are going to plan. There’s things we’re asking him to do like, ‘Hey, just throw the ball away, live to fight another day. You don’t need to stand in the pocket for the last second on this second-down play. Let’s just get the third-down and not take that unnecessary hit.’”
Fitterer also said the Panthers are focused on improving the interior of their offensive line, in order to prevent the disruption that can happen up the middle, especially with a shorter quarterback.
“If we can build it really stout up the middle, we think that’ll also help Bryce,” Fitterer said.
It’s good that they have a plan. The challenge now becomes making it work. It’s a calculated risk. The reward could be significant.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Rapoport said there was no info coming out of the Texans. None of the folks here with connections had the Texans pulling off the Stroud/Anderson exacta, so I believe him.
As I suspected, there are no Will Andersons in next year's draft.
I'll take 9 or 10 and come away with a pretty good WR.
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Not a big deal, Jalen. The 9th pick in last year's draft, Charles Cross, got a fully guaranteed contract, too. As did every 1st round pick.
Texian
Hall of Fame
Let it go.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
I knew that. That's part of the 1st round deal. Posted it to give a hang your hat for the contract $$.
I was just reponding to the guy that posted it on twitter. I guess I could have pulled the twitter link out of your post. But it's Friday, and I try to work as little as possible.
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Texansphan
Football connoisseur
I see they are already giving Arizona a Texans first or second.
I hope our boys egg many faces.
Marvin Harrison Jr!
What prognostigaters aren't looking at is just how weak the AFC South is. No one is going to sweep this thing. No one will be swept. Add to that the AFC South is playing the weakest NFC division, the NFC South. And the bonus game 17 will be the Cardinals. If the Texans aren't careful, they might end up with 8 wins.
Maybe if Junior shoots someone, like Dad did. Allegedly.
Texansphan
Football connoisseur
And there is one team in the AFC North the Texans will be keen to beat.
Texian
Hall of Fame
But there was a Jalen Carter, a Nolan Smith, and last year there was a Jordan Davis, Sauce Gardner and Kayvon Thibodeaux and every one of them go with an extra 1st RD pick in 2024. And Jared Verse (2024) had a better year than Anderson.
As I told you in your thread, I'd trade Carter + Smith for Anderson, and not lose a wink of sleep.
Texansphan
Football connoisseur
According to who?
cuppacoffee
Resident Grouch
Had Jared Verse received feedback that he would be a top 10 pick this year, he would have come out for this draft. I think he's good, but top 10 is another PFF fabrication. Like Will Levis. Watch more games and read PFF less.
The Eagles have NOT released the time frame that Carter will be out with his broken fingers.
In other news, Carter's agent also got double sized (6%) fee for his work over the last two months.
Smokescreen or wild overpay? Inside the Texans' pricey plan to draft C.J. Stroud, Will Anderson Jr.
The Texans needed elite prospects to take the next step. They decided to acquire two at the top of Round 1, no matter the cost.
if this has been posted, I missed it
Texian
Hall of Fame
I also watched Jadeveon Clowney put up monster numbers as a Soph only to see his numbers collapse as Junior much like Anderson.
Number19
Hall of Fame
Already reported, but certainly worth repeating how Caserio and DeMeco pulled off the draft.Smokescreen or wild overpay? Inside the Texans' pricey plan to draft C.J. Stroud, Will Anderson Jr.
The Texans needed elite prospects to take the next step. They decided to acquire two at the top of Round 1, no matter the cost.www.espn.com
if this has been posted, I missed it
Anderson's "collapsing" numbers were more than Carter and Smith's combined.
You're beginning to remind me of the Black Knight. "It's only a flesh wound."
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
Yeah, the Texans would finish 2023 with the worst or second worst record in the NFL…..joke. Next, this fool has the Texans selecting, at 16, an often injured LSU DT while the next 3-4 picks would’ve been guys I think the Texans FO might be selecting. Another one of those anti-Texas everything meatheads.
The only way Arizona is moving that high is if they trade the rest of the draft. It will be hard to move from 32 to 2.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Are the Panthers saying that they will be waiting to put him in until he GROWS up? If so, they may be waiting for quite a long time! 
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Panthers have “no timeline” for playing Bryce Young
Posted by Mike Florio on May 5, 2023, 10:41 AM EDT
There’s been a presumption that Panthers quarterback Bryce Young will start right away. That presumption might not become the reality.
Earlier this week, Panthers G.M. Scott Fitterer explained the process for deciding when to put Young on the field.
“We’re going to rely on our coaches — Jim Caldwell, Frank Reich, Thomas Brown — to decide when it’s right,” Fitterer said. “We don’t have a timeline. We’re not saying, ‘Hey, this guy’s gonna start the first game or we’re not going to play him at all this year.’ When the time is right or we felt like he’s got enough of a mastery of the offense where he can go out and operate this and be successful, that’s when he’ll be out there.
“We went out and signed Andy Dalton for a reason. He played as a rookie. He’s got a lot of experience. He understands his role and he can play good football. If Andy’s the guy to start the season, and he’s the starter right now heading into the season, then he’ll be the guy. When Bryce is ready or Matt Corral is ready whoever it may be, that’ll be the time they go in. We say it’s open competition, but Frank did say, ‘Hey, Andy’s he’s our guy right now. He’ll walk into the season as the starter and then as you know, the young guys compete underneath him, then they’ll go in when they’re ready.”
Dalton has been there and done that, two years ago in Chicago. He went from QB1 to QB2 once Justin Field was ready to go.
The challenge for the Panthers becomes knowing exactly when the right time has arrived to make Young the quarterback. If it happens too early, it can impact his long-term development. It can contribute to a potential boom becoming a bust.
That’s why plenty of busts aren’t simply the fault of the player. The team must know how to develop the player and when to insert the player into the lineup. For many players who don’t pan out, particularly at the quarterback position, the reality is that their career was mismanaged by the teams that picked them.
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Panthers have “no timeline” for playing Bryce Young
Posted by Mike Florio on May 5, 2023, 10:41 AM EDT
There’s been a presumption that Panthers quarterback Bryce Young will start right away. That presumption might not become the reality.
Earlier this week, Panthers G.M. Scott Fitterer explained the process for deciding when to put Young on the field.
“We’re going to rely on our coaches — Jim Caldwell, Frank Reich, Thomas Brown — to decide when it’s right,” Fitterer said. “We don’t have a timeline. We’re not saying, ‘Hey, this guy’s gonna start the first game or we’re not going to play him at all this year.’ When the time is right or we felt like he’s got enough of a mastery of the offense where he can go out and operate this and be successful, that’s when he’ll be out there.
“We went out and signed Andy Dalton for a reason. He played as a rookie. He’s got a lot of experience. He understands his role and he can play good football. If Andy’s the guy to start the season, and he’s the starter right now heading into the season, then he’ll be the guy. When Bryce is ready or Matt Corral is ready whoever it may be, that’ll be the time they go in. We say it’s open competition, but Frank did say, ‘Hey, Andy’s he’s our guy right now. He’ll walk into the season as the starter and then as you know, the young guys compete underneath him, then they’ll go in when they’re ready.”
Dalton has been there and done that, two years ago in Chicago. He went from QB1 to QB2 once Justin Field was ready to go.
The challenge for the Panthers becomes knowing exactly when the right time has arrived to make Young the quarterback. If it happens too early, it can impact his long-term development. It can contribute to a potential boom becoming a bust.
That’s why plenty of busts aren’t simply the fault of the player. The team must know how to develop the player and when to insert the player into the lineup. For many players who don’t pan out, particularly at the quarterback position, the reality is that their career was mismanaged by the teams that picked them.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Is that a joke?The Eagles have NOT released the time frame that Carter will be out with his broken fingers.
In other news, Carter's agent also got double sized (6%) fee for his work over the last two months.
Texansphan
Football connoisseur
On first blush, it seems NC worked well with his coaches and is doing a solid job with the rebuild.
I say we give him at least another draft.
Texansphan
Football connoisseur
Heh - they have Browns ahead of Rams , Packers and Steelers.
yes or at least I wanted it to be
Yep. I'm not scared of the AFC South. And I think DeMeco could surprise a lot of folks this year. I'm not calling it, but it wouldn't shock me if the Texans win the south next season.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
https://theathletic.com/4485716/2023/05/04/nfl-draft-observations-randy-mueller-colts-giants-dolphins/?source=freedailyemail&campaign=601983
- Randy Mueller
Leading up to this year’s NFL Draft, the most perplexing and polarizing player in my opinion was Florida quarterback Anthony Richardson. Any way you looked at it, the 21-year-old redshirt sophomore who had started only 13 games in college and completed 54.7 percent of his pass attempts was going to test every NFL team’s processes and force each to make an uncomfortable decision in projecting Richardson’s future at the NFL level.
We all saw the great athleticism, the live NFL arm and the easy, fundamentally sound delivery. Unfortunately, some of us also saw the consistent inaccuracy, the indecision and processing of information equivalent to a deer in the headlights. It was all on display, good and bad.
Having been in the draft room with NFL teams for 32 years, many as the lead decision maker, the process of building consensus, using all the people and information available — taking into account everyone’s thoughts — to construct a team is a major undertaking. These decisions come with giant stakes for employees and families. I always strived for inclusion and allowing people to be heard. I actually loved this part of the job as much as any aspect of being an NFL general manager. You’ll hear me say this often: “None of us are as smart as all of us.”
I always struggled and was sometimes angered when a scout, coach or both gave an opinion on a particular player that hurt the cause of consensus. That’s not because they were wrong; in fact I welcomed and wanted everyone to say what they thought and give different opinions if they saw it differently. I wanted nothing to do with “yes men.”
But I wanted all of us to identify traits from the same prioritized criteria set by myself, our scouting staffs and the coaching staffs. When vastly different opinions came from the same group, I usually steered us into a different lane for a player on whom we had more consensus. When that happened, it forced me to make a really tough decision, but if you force a pick on a coaching or scouting staff when one side didn’t believe, you are asking for problems.
I never wanted to side with the loudest or highest-ranking voice in the room. Fortunately, I am an experienced evaluator myself (some GMs who are salary cap experts and not evaluators could possibly side with the best salespeople in the room) and have high confidence from many years of doing it, so I had my own thoughts to fall back on.
That’s why, when the Indianapolis Colts’ draft room was shown after their selection of Richardson, you saw no celebrations. You saw consternation and anxiety throughout. This had to be a painful process for them with an impatient owner lurking and probably mandating they take a QB one way or another. I felt bad for GM Chris Ballard and assistant GM Ed Dodds when the camera scanned the scene.
The evaluation of Richardson had to be complicated, convoluted and had to include doubters. I for one could not have chosen the direction that the Colts chose in the end. It was just too big of a leap of faith for me. And I’m not saying they are wrong, I just couldn’t have done it. It’s one thing to have diverse opinions on a player in round 4 or 5, but it’s another matter to have those same internal thoughts regarding a player you’re taking with the No. 4 or 5 pick overall.
A decision like this can be career altering for the decision makers. I had knots in my stomach for the powers that be in Indy, and I had zero to do with it. I’ve had this feeling before, and it’s no fun. But it’s going to be a fun one to follow as the journey is just starting for Richardson and the Colts.
The stories told by The Athletic’s Dan Duggan and Charlotte Carroll of the teamwork that transpired in the New York Giants’ draft room during their selection of Tennessee wide receiver Jalin Hyatt is just as rare.
The Giants traded up 16 spots in round 3, and gave up a fourth-round pick in doing so, to select one of the most explosive players and offensive weapons in the draft. To commit to this kind of aggressive move, it told me that the Giants in all likelihood had Hyatt late in round 1 or at the top of round 2 on their draft board. The comments of GM Joe Schoen post draft — that Hyatt “was kind of sticking out on our board at a position that we thought he could help us” — confirms my suspicion.
Jalin Hyatt was my number one option for teams in need of a speed receiver. His long frame and extended catching radius, along with his ability to track and adjust to long balls, went a long way toward determining my position on him. His route tree at
Tennessee was somewhat limited, but I saw enough in his skill set to give me confidence that he will become very adept at route running, in time, at the NFL level.
As Duggan reported, Giants coach Brian Daboll initiated contact with the Rams via text that they would have an interest in doing the trade. This is not normal; the general manager usually leads in every way in the draft room. I love this because it also told me the head coach was in lockstep with the GM about acquiring the player. Giants fans should be excited because Daboll was involved and thus will be extra motivated to do everything within his power to make sure the Hyatt move is seen in a good light.
It sounds simple and to be a given, but it’s not. Some saw Hyatt as unpolished and raw as a route runner. Look for him to be schemed into an offense seamlessly and be used as the guy who can take the top off of defenses early in his tenure with the Giants.
The GM and head coach in New York are obviously communicating well and on the same page. Giants ownership has taken its share of criticism in the past decade, but it looks to me like they struck gold with this combination.
One of the other things that jumped out at me was the post-draft negative narrative brought against the Miami Dolphins for their first selection, corner Cam Smith from South Carolina, over an offensive tackle to protect their prized QB Tua Tagovailoa.
With no first-round pick, the Dolphins’ initial selection came in the second round at pick 51. Some fans and media had determined the need was greater for an offensive tackle, and much like in fantasy football, you just fill your greatest need, right? Sorry, that’s not the way it works in building an NFL team.
Chances were good, with any luck at all, that even at 51 the Fins would still be able to select a player they had valued in the top half of their first round, as it was stacked. No teams stack their board with the same players nor in the same order. Evaluating is subjective, not objective, even as the numbers people push a different narrative.
In protecting the integrity of their board and process, the Dolphins selected what was most likely the highest player left on their board within reason, which would have clearly been a first-round talent. If they had equally valued an offensive tackle, then need could be considered, but the quality in the offensive line pool had dissipated at that point in the draft. Getting a starting corner to play opposite newly acquired Jalen Ramsey, who was a much greater value in management’s eyes, might just change the dynamics for a team that already has a solid pass rush.
Reaching to fill a need is going to get you fired in the NFL more times than not. It’s one thing to do that when the players being considered are valued the same. You stack your board with this in mind. Obviously you take the player at your greatest area of need if the players in focus are equal in all other areas. But it’s problematic to pass over better players in order to fill a need with a player of lesser talent. I’ve been around that philosophy, and what you end up with is a team of backups and a very tidy-looking depth chart — one of positional balance but lacking in quality.
Good decision makers in the NFL stick to the integrity of the process: Build consensus, have conviction for your evaluations and stay the course with following the plan. These are good fundamentals that rear their heads in each and every draft. When looking at your favorite team, grade their processes — not their players — in the week after the draft.
This stuck out to me from your post...
Sounds like the Rick Smith era Texans
“It was a fair trade on all the charts,” another exec said of the Texans’ move. “My guess is that they were split between the two players, Stroud and Anderson, and they said you know, this pick we acquired from Cleveland is 12, and our pick from Cleveland next year is going to be lower, so let’s see if we can move up and just get them both.'”
^^^^^ Should be required reading, particularly by the Rolaids squad
^^^^^ Should be required reading, particularly by the Rolaids squad
TheRealJoker
Hall of Fame
Asman must have forgot that our new LB coach Chris Kiffin was Clowney’s coach with the Browns. I’m sure he has already told DeMeco about the “energy vampire” Clowney.
I think Hughes is a better mentor for the young DEs on the roster. That guy was playing with 100% effort in preseason!
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