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2021 Texans disarray or chugging along?

mws

Waterboy
That tells us something .... Either you win with a an above average QB on a rookie contract or you don't win one at all - unless you have a HOFer QB - 8 of the 10 are probably HOFers - the other two had great defenses / running games to carry the load.
I'm curious about people's thoughts on Eli getting into the Hall of Fame.

Jim Plunkett is the only QB with 2 or more Super Bowls not in the hall of fame.

Both Manning & Plunkett's win percentage are the same (.500). Plunkett does have more interceptions than touchdowns & Manning has a better completion rate. But you take away Eli's two SB rings & he has had a pretty mediocre career

Jim Plunkett 72-72-0 .500, Cmp% 52.5%, TD 164, Int 198, 2 Super Bowl victories

Eli Manning 117-117-0 .500, Cmp% 60.3%, TD 366, Int 244, 2 Super Bowl victories

I do believe Manning will get in but to me it seems like Plunkett should get in also.
 

mws

Waterboy
These are the only two I could find. There could be others. I was kind of surprised by Namath. My family comes from Tuscaloosa Alabama so you know I grew up hearing about Bama QBs like Namath & Stabler.

Sonny Jurgensen
69-71-7 .490, Cmp% 57.1%, TD 255, Int 189

Joe Namath
62-63-4 .496, Cmp% 50.1%, TD 173, Int 220, 1 Super Bowl victory
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
I'm curious about people's thoughts on Eli getting into the Hall of Fame.

Jim Plunkett is the only QB with 2 or more Super Bowls not in the hall of fame.

Both Manning & Plunkett's win percentage are the same (.500). Plunkett does have more interceptions than touchdowns & Manning has a better completion rate. But you take away Eli's two SB rings & he has had a pretty mediocre career

Jim Plunkett 72-72-0 .500, Cmp% 52.5%, TD 164, Int 198, 2 Super Bowl victories

Eli Manning 117-117-0 .500, Cmp% 60.3%, TD 366, Int 244, 2 Super Bowl victories

I do believe Manning will get in but to me it seems like Plunkett should get in also.

Yeah , I think he belongs .... He was on several teams that just didn't have much talent.

When he was on the Raiders , his record was .583.

With both the 49ers and Patriots he was .500.

Heisman trophy , Rookie of the year , 2 Superbowls (the first minority QB to win one) , a Superbowl MVP .... Longest TD pass in league history. 8-2 as a starter in the playoffs.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
Again, it comes down to the "luck" of where these QB's land.

Well .... unless Watson is a HOFer , the Texans have a two year window to win one with Watson looking at the history of that list.

(unless of course they put a historically great defense and running game on the field)
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
Yeah , I think he belongs .... He was on several teams that just didn't have much talent.

When he was on the Raiders , his record was .583.

With both the 49ers and Patriots he was .500.

Heisman trophy , Rookie of the year , 2 Superbowls (the first minority QB to win one) , a Superbowl MVP .... Longest TD pass in league history. 8-2 as a starter in the playoffs.
Do you also think Eli belongs? I don't
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
Do you also think Eli belongs? I don't

I think so ....


I also think Eli gets unfairly judged / compared to Peyton. And that sets the bar really high.

Two superbowls
Two superbowl MVP's
A top 50 career QBR.
8 straight seasons of .500 or better.

If he isn't Peyton's brother , I don't think we have this conversation ....

Also , had he retired 2-4 years earlier rather than sticking around the last few years on pretty bad teams , the narrative changes some.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
That tells us something .... Either you win with a an above average QB on a rookie contract or you don't win one at all - unless you have a HOFer QB - 8 of the 10 are probably HOFers - the other two had great defenses / running games to carry the load.
Do you see DW4 as one of these type QB's?
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Yeah , I think he belongs .... He was on several teams that just didn't have much talent.

When he was on the Raiders , his record was .583.

With both the 49ers and Patriots he was .500.

Heisman trophy , Rookie of the year , 2 Superbowls (the first minority QB to win one) , a Superbowl MVP .... Longest TD pass in league history. 8-2 as a starter in the playoffs.
Plunkett was a favorite of mine. He got the crap beat out of him and the smartest thing Al Davis ever did was pick him up on waivers and give him a yr off to get over being shell shocked. He was a true leader with all of the teams he played with.

Side Note: Both of his parents were blind. That has to be a tough thing for a young man to take care of his parents.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Well .... unless Watson is a HOFer , the Texans have a two year window to win one with Watson looking at the history of that list.

(unless of course they put a historically great defense and running game on the field)
This is what I've been saying and the main reason it would be prudent to move on from DW4.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
If they can just hold off one more season before deciding to pay DW. This season if played should provide lots of info.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
If they can just hold off one more season before deciding to pay DW. This season if played should provide lots of info.
This is why I'm hopeful that they give him a 3 yr deal with the guaranteed $$$$ in the 1st two yrs of the deal. The Texans should know if they have a championship level QB in 4 1/2 yrs. Unless you want to buy into the youngsters still learning crowd.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
This is why I'm hopeful that they give him a 3 yr deal with the guaranteed $$$$ in the 1st two yrs of the deal. The Texans should know if they have a championship level QB in 4 1/2 yrs. Unless you want to buy into the youngsters still learning crowd.
The problem as I'm sure you realize is that a three-year contract is still going to be at 30 + million dollars per annum. I don't want to pay that unless I think he is the one to be our future franchise quarterback.
 

OptimisticTexan

6 Years- 1 Game and Counting!!!!
Invariably on a piss-poor team to start with
Manning was a prime example but it didn't take long for Polian to build a team around Manning. When it was done, Manning got busy delivering the goods. Watson hasn't enjoyed the savvy of a Polian building a team around him nor the leadership of a Tony Dungy. Watson has enjoyed the brilliance of this threesome; Smith, Gaines, and O'Brien......hhhmmm, doesn't have the same ring.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Manning was a prime example but it didn't take long for Polian to build a team around Manning. When it was done, Manning got busy delivering the goods. Watson hasn't enjoyed the savvy of a Polian building a team around him nor the leadership of a Tony Dungy. Watson has enjoyed the brilliance of this threesome; Smith, Gaines, and O'Brien......hhhmmm, doesn't have the same ring.
This was BOB's 1st yr as GM and I liked the moves to get Tunsil/Conley/Hyde/Cooks/Blacklock/Roby re-signing. Let's give BOB the GM a chance.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
This was BOB's 1st yr as GM and I liked the moves to get Tunsil/Conley/Hyde/Cooks/Blacklock/Roby re-signing. Let's give BOB the GM a chance.
What do you find funny Earl, I really liked the draft, particularly without a 1st rd pick.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
The problem as I'm sure you realize is that a three-year contract is still going to be at 30 + million dollars per annum. I don't want to pay that unless I think he is the one to be our future franchise quarterback.
I'm OK with paying him because I'm willing to give the hey, he's a youngster crowd on this MB the rope to hang themselves with. Plus it's not my $$$$.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
JJ Watt has stated he will not play This season if forced to wear a full face shield. Should laremy tunsil decide to do the same but Watson decides to play, I will be extremely concerned for injuries as we don't have adequate replacement. I could see Scharping taking over at left tackle but that still leaves a hole. Thoughts?
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
JJ Watt has stated he will not play This season if forced to wear a full face shield. Should laremy tunsil decide to do the same but Watson decides to play, I will be extremely concerned for injuries as we don't have adequate replacement. I could see Scharping taking over at left tackle but that still leaves a hole. Thoughts?
Season likely won't be for more than 3 weeks if they even have one at all.

I wouldn't worry about it to much.
 

KA4Texan

Weirdo Mode Engaged
Contributor's Club
Eli, no .. I DID enjoy his SB wins immensely... but sticking it to Tom Brady twice... while a pleasure to see.... especially the first one, but does not in my mind equal HOF worthy.

As for the Texans in disarray or not.... what isnt in disarray. I dont believe this will be resolved by the 2021 season... so I believe that even when it is resolved the Texans will pick up right where they left off.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Eli, no .. I DID enjoy his SB wins immensely... but sticking it to Tom Brady twice... while a pleasure to see.... especially the first one, but does not in my mind equal HOF worthy.

As for the Texans in disarray or not.... what isnt in disarray. I dont believe this will be resolved by the 2021 season... so I believe that even when it is resolved the Texans will pick up right where they left off.
Agreed

Why do you dislike Brady so much. You have a dislike of greatness?
 

KA4Texan

Weirdo Mode Engaged
Contributor's Club
Agreed

Why do you dislike Brady so much. You have a dislike of greatness?
Not so much a dislike of the man.... more a dislike of the same ole same ole.

I have never been about stacking the deck against Brady and the Patriots. I think to be the best, you have to beat the best, fairly.(Regardless of how they may "bend" the rules or not..... just cause your opposition doesnt have the same level character as you, you cant cry about them pushing the envelope because they thought of it first).

My thing is, unless my team is up there or a team I hate.... I root for the underdog. I was tired of it always being the Patriots and Brady, not a hater, just a lover of variety... as I said.... if you want to be the best, beat the best, dont cripple the best so you can take their spot)

Tge ego that comes with an undefeated team as tge Pats first loss to Eli, it was nice to see that shot of humility in the arm of Pats fans everywhere.

Even if my own team were unbeatable... it doesnt excuse being a jerk fan... some trash talk is good fun, but true arrogance is undeserved... especially by fans that didnt play.

That aside... no ill will to Brady or the Patriots, just always nice to see the underdog get one now and then... especially when tge under dog turns out to be Superman's kryptonite.
 
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badboy

Hall of Fame
Not so much a dislike of the man.... more a dislike of the same ole same ole.

I have never been about stacking the deck against Brady and the Patriots. I think to be the best, you have to beat the best, fairly.(Regardless of how they may "bend" the rules or not..... just cause your opposition doesnt have the same level character as you, you cant cry about them pushing the envelope because they thought of it first).

My thing is, unless my team is up there or a team I hate.... I root for the underdog. I was tired of it always being the Patriots and Brady, not a hater, just a lover of variety... as I said.... if you want to be the best, beat the best, dont cripple the best so you can take their spot)

Tge ego that comes with an undefeated team as tge Pats first loss to Eli, it was nice to see that shot of humility in the arm of Pats fans everywhere.

Even if my own team were unbeatable... it doesnt excuse being a jerk fan... some trash talk is good fun, but true arrogance is undeserved... especially by fans that didnt play.

That aside... no ill will to Brady or the Patriots, just always nice to see the underdog get one now and then... especially when tge under dog turns out to be Superman's kryptonite.
I dislike Brady because I'm convinced he and Belichic are cheaters. I recognize the talent and skills of both but dislike they have to cheat despite that. I also root for underdog. I have no issue with ego if like Ali you can back it up.
 

KA4Texan

Weirdo Mode Engaged
Contributor's Club
I dislike Brady because I'm convinced he and Belichic are cheaters. I recognize the talent and skills of both but dislike they have to cheat despite that. I also root for underdog. I have no issue with ego if like Ali you can back it up.
Again, crying about what they do or do not do is meaningless if those with the power to stop them, dont.

The NFL has made it quite clear it is far more interested in the letter of its own rules, not the intent of those rules.

IF someone wants to beat Belichick and the Patriots at their own game...... think of it first and do it better than they do.

Hate the NFL for allowing it. All coaches out there look for that edge, all teams skirt the rules a bit. Acting like all are wholesome and pure and the Patriots are the only ones stretching... is naive at best.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Again, crying about what they do or do not do is meaningless if those with the power to stop them, dont.

The NFL has made it quite clear it is far more interested in the letter of its own rules, not the intent of those rules.

IF someone wants to beat Belichick and the Patriots at their own game...... think of it first and do it better than they do.

Hate the NFL for allowing it. All coaches out there look for that edge, all teams skirt the rules a bit. Acting like all are wholesome and pure and the Patriots are the only ones stretching... is naive at best.
It is not meaningless to me. Other teams may be cheating but that doesn't make it right and PATS only team that frequently do it. No I don't want my teams to "find a better way to cheat. Astros disgust me.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
IIRC, Obrien made the trade for Tunsil one week before regular season game one. Not to debate the trade (again) but I really like that he made a move in an attempt to make team better. Jets and Jacksonville don't have to trade but I can see Jamal Adams holding out.
 

KA4Texan

Weirdo Mode Engaged
Contributor's Club
Again, Hate the league that doesnt hold teams to a higher moral standard then.

The world isnt fair, teams will do whatever the league allows them to get away with.

IF the fans hate cheaters so much... demand more from the league or walk away, thats tge only way "fairness" will ever be upheld, is IF it is demanded by the authority that governs it.
 

DocBar

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
I dislike Brady because I'm convinced he and Belichic are cheaters. I recognize the talent and skills of both but dislike they have to cheat despite that. I also root for underdog. I have no issue with ego if like Ali you can back it up.
Deflategate was a travesty of "justice". Nothing but a **** show and a witch hunt from start to finish. Spygate was the league serving notice that filming other team's practice sessions would no longer be tolerated. It was widely recognized that all teams did it. NE was merely the scapegoat that got publicly punished.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Coming up on 4 months since I created this thread. Purpose was to voice if this team and management has a plan going into 2020 and 2021 or are in disarray.
Has your opinion changed or solidified?
It is hard to evaluate comments coming from coaching any preseason but this one is more difficult for me.

Where I am today some based on news and some on my gut:
1. Health remains key but we do have some depth.
2. I think Watt, Roby, Jacob Martin and Fuller are four keys
3. Blacklock, John Reid and WR Isaac Whitney rookie draft picks that could have significant time on field.
4. Best non draft addition Brandin Cooks. I think with healthy oline this WR will assist Watson make pro bowl again and perhaps all pro by being probowler himself.
5. Player that concerns me the most.. Dashaun Watson. Spotlight on him even more if Obrien leaves Kelly alone. If offense remains healthy and we get 2/3 of David Johnson's production in 2016, Watson should be at least 2nd best QB in AFC and third in NFL.

Your thoughts?
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Most of my Texans fandom I have had to root that the other teams on our schedule have bigger problems than we do when the time comes for them to square off on the grid iron.

Regardless the amount of talent we’ve had, we’ve just never had a good team.

This year I feel fairly confident we’ll do well as we’re use to playing through some kind of BS & most teams aren’t.
 

welsh texan

All Pro
4 wins next year and he gets fired, but the team is in for a long rebuild
Perpetually at the start of a long rebuild under OB.

I like to take an optimistic viewpoint at this point in the year, and liked a theory I saw somewhere on this MB that since Watson was previously under pressure to get Hopkins the ball as much as possible, and Hopkins is never truly open, his tendency to hold the ball too long was purely down to this.

Getting rid of Hopkins means Watson is free to go through his progressions and throw the open receiver, and still has the wheels to take off when it genuinely isn’t there.

No more wide open first down hot streak obviously ignored. Watson will look much better if this is the case.

Never mind whatiffing about 2021 after a 7 win season. Don’t forget the reason OB sticks around despite appearing inept is because he will stumble into the playoffs despite looking nothing like a contender.
 

OptimisticTexan

6 Years- 1 Game and Counting!!!!
Most of my Texans fandom I have had to root that the other teams on our schedule have bigger problems than we do when the time comes for them to square off on the grid iron.

Regardless the amount of talent we’ve had, we’ve just never had a good team.

This year I feel fairly confident we’ll do well as we’re use to playing through some kind of BS & most teams aren’t.
2020 could be the season of attrition. Texans could have their best chance based on other teams injuries......provided they can stay healthy.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Everything is up in the air.....Madden has predicted OB being gone. If the Texans were to lose their GM/HC in one move, things are going to change quickly.
Yeah and I have no idea where McNair goes to replace Obrien. If he goes elsewhere and is successful, we will hear about it for years especially if replacements are not good immediately. Better be a smart decision.. If it happens.
 

banned1976

Fire Bill O’Brien, maybe?
Coming up on 4 months since I created this thread. Purpose was to voice if this team and management has a plan going into 2020 and 2021 or are in disarray.
Has your opinion changed or solidified?
It is hard to evaluate comments coming from coaching any preseason but this one is more difficult for me.

Where I am today some based on news and some on my gut:
1. Health remains key but we do have some depth.
2. I think Watt, Roby, Jacob Martin and Fuller are four keys
3. Blacklock, John Reid and WR Isaac Whitney rookie draft picks that could have significant time on field.
4. Best non draft addition Brandin Cooks. I think with healthy oline this WR will assist Watson make pro bowl again and perhaps all pro by being probowler himself.
5. Player that concerns me the most.. Dashaun Watson. Spotlight on him even more if Obrien leaves Kelly alone. If offense remains healthy and we get 2/3 of David Johnson's production in 2016, Watson should be at least 2nd best QB in AFC and third in NFL.

Your thoughts?
I don’t put much stock in training camp reports from our media. I read part of the headline posted in the training camp thread pointing to Whitney Mercilus returning to his quarterback harassing, pass rushing self, or something like that, and kept on scrolling. I’ve also read elsewhere that the coaching staff is really high on John Reid. I’ve got to see them during real games before I buy into them. I believe Mercilus is overrated and overpaid and John Reid will be picked on a lot by opposing quarterbacks. In other words he’s going to look like a rookie.

I haven’t changed my mind on what I expect from this team- decent offense (top 15) and terrible pass defense (ranked between 25th to 32nd.

I’m not concerned about Watson. The only thing that worries me about him is what every fan base worries about with their #1 quarterback and that is succumbing to an injury.
 

Speedy

Yeller Dweller
I read part of the headline posted in the training camp thread pointing to Whitney Mercilus returning to his quarterback harassing, pass rushing self, or something like that, and kept on scrolling.
Right. He is going against our o-line. Even if that unit has potential for big improvement, they’ve still got a long way to go.

I don’t really mind the pre-season games being gone, but to not even have scrimmages against other teams, getting a true read on anybody has got to be extremely difficult.

Should be an interesting, and possibly quite boring start to the season as teams use those first few games as their PS.
 

KoolAid Sipper

Waterboy
Still skeptical of consistent OL play, Martin may be smart but I just don't have confidence in him.
The RB position may be a revolving door.
The secondary will probably get smoked more than briskets in Texas.
I'm going to be interested in the offensive play calling...how it flows and the creativity/scheming.
I'm excited about the TEs on the roster.
OB the GM has me on blood pressure meds.
 

banned1976

Fire Bill O’Brien, maybe?
The only thing I know for sure, I won’t sit through watching the Texans offense of 2013-2016. If Watson gets injured or regresses to the degree of an offensive equivalence of Hoyer/Fitzpatrick/Osweiler/Yates, I will definitely not be watching. Those four years were the absolute low-point for me being a Texans fan. I felt unhappy watching those games. It was anti-entertaining.

O’Brien has taken a lot of risks with this group (on offense and defense). He needs to be right about a lot of things.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
The only thing I know for sure, I won’t sit through watching the Texans offense of 2013-2016. If Watson gets injured or regresses to the degree of an offensive equivalence of Hoyer/Fitzpatrick/Osweiler/Yates, I will definitely not be watching. Those four years were the absolute low-point for me being a Texans fan. I felt unhappy watching those games. It was anti-entertaining.
Why tell us?
 


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