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2021 Texans disarray or chugging along?

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Let’s see, 3rd quarter, down by 17, and on a 10 play drive you’re running the ball 7 times? Doesn’t really matter who the play caller is if the philosophy is flawed.
What bothers me is at the end of the 3rd qtr DW4 completed a pass and there was 23 seconds left in the qtr. The Texans couldn't get a play off before the end of the qtr. I dont know if this is Kelly not getting the play in in time, or DW4 couldn't get the play off in time. But this has to change.
 

powda

Baby can you dig your man?
What bothers me is at the end of the 3rd qtr DW4 completed a pass and there was 23 seconds left in the qtr. The Texans couldn't get a play off before the end of the qtr. I dont know if this is Kelly not getting the play in in time, or DW4 couldn't get the play off in time. But this has to change.
Noticed it to. More bad clock management.

This game turned out as expected for me really. None of the bs we saw is a surprise.
 

OptimisticTexan

Go Texans 1-1...Post OB!!!!!
What I'm saying is for months most of us called for Kelly to call plays as if it would correct things as he has better repoire with Dashaun. At minimum he could be no worse. No one thought Kelly would bring different game plan than O'Brien's.

What happened? Let's not change the conversation many of us had. Let Kelly call plays and manage/guide #4. Well he did and what happened?
......OB 2.0
 

OptimisticTexan

Go Texans 1-1...Post OB!!!!!
Doesn't matter, more excuses.

Over the next 4 yrs fans will either discover the truth, or comtinue to live in denial.
What are you talking about? I discovered the truth in 2014 and never lived in denial. Now it's 2020 and the truth becomes more and more relevant each and every season. OB is not and will not ever be a great HC much less a GM. The man has scorched through QB's trying to find one who can execute his vaunted high octane offense.....whoops, not his offense. Trying to find someone who can make his crappy, ill-advised, and completely predictable offense look great. Big secret......that QB doesn't exist!!! OB needs to hit the door with his staff in tow before they have enough time to destroy another QB whiile setting this franchise back years.
 

Earl34

Veteran
Besides the Patriots with Brady and Belichick. Over the past two years, does anyone know how many teams have won Super Bowls running the EP offense?

Edit I meant 20 years
 
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badboy

Hall of Fame
I believe most of us think that 2020 is a show me season for O'Brien. A smaller percentage of us believe it is also for Deshaun Watson. The McNair's have locked themselves into two expensive contracts with their HC and their QB. One can be moved much easier than the other if Janice decides.

Most predicted a 6 or less win season and we are on that path and it would be difficult to find anyone thinking we will not be 0-2 probably including Bill, Cal and Janice. I guess we are on track. On track to where is why I am interested.
Many also voiced that 2020 will be a "throw away year"; sad but it apparently has to be.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
I'm on board with this

No more excuses.

Unfortunately it's going to be 4 more yrs of this crap and that's totally on ownership.
Here is my biggest problem with OBrien and his regime. He promotes from within as if these guys from within deserve accolades or accomplished anything. Kelly has been with BOB since Penn St, but what has he done? What did O'BRIEN do as a play caller? Weaver was the dline coach. Was the dline developed into some monsters? Yet, MCVEIGH goes and get someone he's never worked with. There isnt a single assest that the Texas does exceptionally under O'BRIEN. On the bright side, I'm not sure this was the owners mission, there is nobody else to blame for O'BRIEN. He traded Clowney and rewarded Whitney. He traded Hopkins. He signed Eric Murray. If this team fails, its all on him and the next head coach has Watson for the next 5 years.
 

OptimisticTexan

Go Texans 1-1...Post OB!!!!!
I believe most of us think that 2020 is a show me season for O'Brien. A smaller percentage of us believe it is also for Deshaun Watson. The McNair's have locked themselves into two expensive contracts with their HC and their QB. One can be moved much easier than the other if Janice decides.

Most predicted a 6 or less win season and we are on that path and it would be difficult to find anyone thinking we will not be 0-2 probably including Bill, Cal and Janice. I guess we are on track. On track to where is why I am interested.
Many also voiced that 2020 will be a "throw away year"; sad but it apparently has to be.
I've really got to see Watson without OB in the equation before I heap a ton of blame on him. Watson will make mistakes throughout his entire career as will most NFL QB's. I just don't think OB has or has ever had the players to successfully run whatever his offense is in anyone's mind. I do think Watson could be much more successful with a different HC, OC and offensive system.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
I've really got to see Watson without OB in the equation before I heap a ton of blame on him. Watson will make mistakes throughout his entire career as will most NFL QB's. I just don't think OB has or has ever had the players to successfully run whatever his offense is in anyone's mind. I do think Watson could be much more successful with a different HC, OC and offensive system.
Ok.. But that isn't happening at least for now.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
I've really got to see Watson without OB in the equation before I heap a ton of blame on him. Watson will make mistakes throughout his entire career as will most NFL QB's. I just don't think OB has or has ever had the players to successfully run whatever his offense is in anyone's mind. I do think Watson could be much more successful with a different HC, OC and offensive system.

I've said for two years I want to see Watson with another coach in a system that better suits him - I think he can be better than he is currently.

But I also see Watson making the same mistakes over and over again - regardless of system or blocking.
Throwing into coverage consistently , missing reads , holding the ball longer than necessary , poor clock management .... Quite a few examples of this in the last game alone.

I question how good he really is and if that contract was a colossal mistake that will be an anchor upon this franchise for the next 3 years minimum , can't trade nor cut him for at least the next 3 years. Starting to remind me of Michael Vick , great athlete , mediocre QB.
Teams are playing him much the same way they did Vick (Minus the spy) by keeping him in the pocket and forcing him to make decisions from there.

This DE/LB trying to teach a QB how to play is not working. OB has to be gone after this season and a competent offensive coach brought in to put Watson in a favorable scheme.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
What are you talking about? I discovered the truth in 2014 and never lived in denial. Now it's 2020 and the truth becomes more and more relevant each and every season. OB is not and will not ever be a great HC much less a GM. The man has scorched through QB's trying to find one who can execute his vaunted high octane offense.....whoops, not his offense. Trying to find someone who can make his crappy, ill-advised, and completely predictable offense look great. Big secret......that QB doesn't exist!!! OB needs to hit the door with his staff in tow before they have enough time to destroy another QB whiile setting this franchise back years.
The next HC will have the same issues.

You call Hoyer/Is NFL QBs? Fitz and Hoyer both said they learned more about QB play under BoB than any HC they've had.
 

Earl34

Veteran
I may be wrong but I always thought Payton ran a West Coast and "Air Coryell" hybrid offense.
You're probably correct and it's a good description of the Gulf Coast offense. It's definitely not EP.

I think we can agree that over the past 20 years, besides the Patriots, the Steelers are the only other team to win a Super Bowl running the EP offense. Maybe we can add that factoid to the disarray or chugging along evaluation.
 

Speedy

Yeller Dweller
Here is my biggest problem with OBrien and his regime. He promotes from within as if these guys from within deserve accolades or accomplished anything. Kelly has been with BOB since Penn St, but what has he done? What did O'BRIEN do as a play caller? Weaver was the dline coach. Was the dline developed into some monsters? Yet, MCVEIGH goes and get someone he's never worked with. There isnt a single assest that the Texas does exceptionally under O'BRIEN. On the bright side, I'm not sure this was the owners mission, there is nobody else to blame for O'BRIEN. He traded Clowney and rewarded Whitney. He traded Hopkins. He signed Eric Murray. If this team fails, its all on him and the next head coach has Watson for the next 5 years.
Just shows his poor talent evaluation isn’t limited to players.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I may be wrong but I always thought Payton ran a West Coast and "Air Coryell" hybrid offense.
Payton learned under Parclls. The very name of the EP offense.

Payton's version of the EP offense is what the offense should look like.
 

Earl34

Veteran
Payton learned under Parclls. The very name of the EP offense.

Payton's version of the EP offense is what the offense should look like.
If Peyton is running the EP offense then he is targeting Michael Thomas even more frequently than Hopkins was being targeted. Fortunately, for Saints fans, he is not running the EP offense.
https://www.canalstreetchronicles.com/2014/4/21/5636282/a-glimpse-into-the-sean-payton-offense

My point in bringing this up is if we are saying a QB taking up more than 15% of the salary cap has never won a Super Bowl, then should we also consider the chances of any team running the EP offense without Belichick, Brady or both is also slim to none?

Texans chugging along....:kitten:
 

OptimisticTexan

Go Texans 1-1...Post OB!!!!!
The next HC will have the same issues.

You call Hoyer/Is NFL QBs? Fitz and Hoyer both said they learned more about QB play under BoB than any HC they've had.
I never called them that....OB did when he signed them. As for their success, what was their success for the Texans besides a personal best season?

As for Watson, his first 6 games minus OB's real input equated to some rookie records that "even" the great Mahomes didn't better. The difference, Mahomes had Reid and Watson had OB. Reid continued to build off Mahomes success and didn't allow defenses who now had film to be able to shut down Mahomes success. On the other hand, OB didn't build off what made Watson and his offense successful. He reverted back to the offense that had kept his offenses around the middle or near the bottom and guess what, he got the same results.
 

OptimisticTexan

Go Texans 1-1...Post OB!!!!!
Maybe because Mahomes didn't play as a rookie?
I’m looking at their first 6 games. Hopkins delivered his as a true rookie. Mahomes matched and may have slightly surpassed DW numbers but was accomplished in his 2nd NFL season and first as a starter. He had 6 TD throws in his 6th game to tie DW’s 19 TD throws.

Don’t forget that Mahomes had Reid and Smith to lean on as he carried the clipboard in season 1.....Watson had OB and Savage before he went in as the true rookie starter. I think there was a massive difference as to how both arrived under center as starters.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I never called them that....OB did when he signed them. As for their success, what was their success for the Texans besides a personal best season?

As for Watson, his first 6 games minus OB's real input equated to some rookie records that "even" the great Mahomes didn't better. The difference, Mahomes had Reid and Watson had OB. Reid continued to build off Mahomes success and didn't allow defenses who now had film to be able to shut down Mahomes success. On the other hand, OB didn't build off what made Watson and his offense successful. He reverted back to the offense that had kept his offenses around the middle or near the bottom and guess what, he got the same results.
Or DW4 isn't that good. (6 bad games and counting.)
 

mws

Waterboy
Or DW4 isn't that good. (6 bad games and counting.)
I'm sorry but I don't really understand the 6 games & counting stuff you keep posting. If you include the playoffs Watson had a pretty good game against the Bills. If we are only talking regular season games then he had good games against the Patriots & Colts and a decent game against the Titans.

Here are Watson's last six games with & without playoffs. Please explain where you get 6 bad games in a row.

2019 Week 12: Colts - QB Rating 104.6 - W
2019 Week 13: Patriots - QB Rating 140.7 - W
2019 Week 14: Broncos - QB Rating 63.1 - L
2019 Week 15: Titans - QB Rating 92.1 - W
2019 Week 16: Buccaneers - QB Rating 62.5 - W
-----------------------------
2019 Playoffs:
Bills - QB Rating 121.2 - W
Chiefs - QB Rating 95.7 - L
-----------------------------
2020 Week 1: Chiefs - 84.5 - L
 

OptimisticTexan

Go Texans 1-1...Post OB!!!!!
I'm sorry but I don't really understand the 6 games & counting stuff you keep posting. If you include the playoffs Watson had a pretty good game against the Bills. If we are only talking regular season games then he had good games against the Patriots & Colts and a decent game against the Titans.

Here are Watson's last six games with & without playoffs. Please explain where you get 6 bad games in a row.

2019 Week 12: Colts - QB Rating 104.6 - W
2019 Week 13: Patriots - QB Rating 140.7 - W
2019 Week 14: Broncos - QB Rating 63.1 - L
2019 Week 15: Titans - QB Rating 92.1 - W
2019 Week 16: Buccaneers - QB Rating 62.5 - W
-----------------------------
2019 Playoffs:
Bills - QB Rating 121.2 - W
Chiefs - QB Rating 95.7 - L
-----------------------------
2020 Week 1: Chiefs - 84.5 - L
The man wants what the man wants......are we to argue? Yep.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
Thought they were running a Coryell for the most part ? Gap run / 3-4 wide vertical passing.
Others here have said the Steelers were running an EP system, I just assumed they knew what they were talking about
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Unlike the WCO or Coryall, or whatever. The EP doesn’t have staple formations or methodologies. It’s not about what they do. It’s more about how they communicate.

think about how the Patriots offense changes depending on who is on their team & who they are playing.

I’ve been reading up on the Saints offense because I always thought they ran an EP system. & readingPeyton describe it, it does sound EP. He talks about concepts, he talks about many formations, same play. & the play calls sound EP.

But yes, it also has a West Coast flavor.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
That's factually true but very nitpicky in a season finale that had zero impact on anything but his stat sheet.

BTW, Cowher was running a Bus named Jerome Bettis. HA!!
I was simply answering a question. :brando:
Also, I mentioned Bettis above, calling him a truck rather than a bus, but yeah, I remember how some people used to refer to a bus.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Unlike the WCO or Coryall, or whatever. The EP doesn’t have staple formations or methodologies. It’s not about what they do. It’s more about how they communicate.

think about how the Patriots offense changes depending on who is on their team & who they are playing.

I’ve been reading up on the Saints offense because I always thought they ran an EP system. & readingPeyton describe it, it does sound EP. He talks about concepts, he talks about many formations, same play. & the play calls sound EP.

But yes, it also has a West Coast flavor.
I had posted a link to Payton's 2000 playbook with the Giants in a post above (post 475).

But there were differences in the original concepts of the various systems, not just terminologies. They just evolve over the years and different coaches would also "copy/adapt" certain plays from others so that they all became mumbo-jumbos. The terminologies also evolve over time as well.
 


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