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2021 Texans disarray or chugging along?

theCATALYST

"Fake" Fan


O'Brien was asked about the pair of big trades he made. With the benefit of hindsight, the coach believes they were the right course for Houston to take.

"Look, I think that was a day where we made some moves that we felt were in the best interest of the team, not only last year but moving into the future. I believe that if you look at the players that we were able to acquire or maybe -- whether it was a pick we used to acquire a player, I believe it made us a better team. I have trouble remembering my own wedding anniversary so I'm glad you brought up that anniversary. But look, I think that this year's a little bit different. I wouldn't expect us to celebrate that anniversary tomorrow with a bunch of trades, but you never know.
"But I do think that it improved our team. Did it improve it to where we want to be? No, but everybody is involved in that. Coaching, playing. We've won a bunch of games over that last couple of years, but we all know that us and the city of Houston want us to do better and we're working hard to do better. But I do believe that day made us a better team both last year and in some ways into the future." ~ O'Brien
 

badboy

Hall of Fame


O'Brien was asked about the pair of big trades he made. With the benefit of hindsight, the coach believes they were the right course for Houston to take.

"Look, I think that was a day where we made some moves that we felt were in the best interest of the team, not only last year but moving into the future. I believe that if you look at the players that we were able to acquire or maybe -- whether it was a pick we used to acquire a player, I believe it made us a better team. I have trouble remembering my own wedding anniversary so I'm glad you brought up that anniversary. But look, I think that this year's a little bit different. I wouldn't expect us to celebrate that anniversary tomorrow with a bunch of trades, but you never know.
"But I do think that it improved our team. Did it improve it to where we want to be? No, but everybody is involved in that. Coaching, playing. We've won a bunch of games over that last couple of years, but we all know that us and the city of Houston want us to do better and we're working hard to do better. But I do believe that day made us a better team both last year and in some ways into the future." ~ O'Brien
IMO, OBrien can improve his fan base if his moves result in better Watson and team.
 

banned1976

All Pro
And you think football is only thing discussed? Banned was just voicing his opinions. Come on JB, you just seem grouchy. :slapfight:
It's my concern. It's been my concern for awhile with this coach; he was the architect of that putrid offense. It's still there too, Watson has just been covering it up pretty well up to this point. But there were glimpses of that sputtering offense last season. Now this coach is the GM too, and he's made a bunch of high risk moves, in my humble opinion.

Chugging along or disarray? If the gambles O'Brien has made don't pay off, it's going to be a hot mess.

As far as JB, I don't know...I've seen threads about football evolve (or devolve, depending on your own view) to discussions about BBQ, fishing, bourbon, lakes and just plain silliness. And I just go along with it, no harm, no foul. If someone wants to be sour puss about it, that's their prerogative too.
 
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Earl34

Veteran
Perpetually at the start of a long rebuild under OB.

I like to take an optimistic viewpoint at this point in the year, and liked a theory I saw somewhere on this MB that since Watson was previously under pressure to get Hopkins the ball as much as possible, and Hopkins is never truly open, his tendency to hold the ball too long was purely down to this.

Getting rid of Hopkins means Watson is free to go through his progressions and throw the open receiver, and still has the wheels to take off when it genuinely isn’t there.

No more wide open first down hot streak obviously ignored. Watson will look much better if this is the case.

Never mind whatiffing about 2021 after a 7 win season. Don’t forget the reason OB sticks around despite appearing inept is because he will stumble into the playoffs despite looking nothing like a contender.
I have read or heard this multiple times as a "pro" for this trade. Out of curiosity, do you have a game, series or play in mind where you saw Watson ignored a wide open first down streak while waiting for Hopkins to get open?
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
It's my concern. It's been my concern for awhile with this coach; he was the architect of that putrid offense. It's still there too, Watson has just been covering it up pretty well up to this point. But there were glimpses of that sputtering offense last season. Now this coach is the GM too, and he's made a bunch of high risk moves, in my humble opinion.

Chugging along or disarray? If the gambles O'Brien has made don't pay off, it's going to be a hot mess.

As far as JB, I don't know...I've seen threads about football evolve (or devolve, depending on your own view) to discussions about BBQ, fishing, bourbon, lakes and just plain silliness. And I just go along with it, no harm, no foul. If someone wants to be sour puss about it, that's their prerogative too.
You’re spot on with everything you just posted here. It seems like the more OB messes up the Texans brass gives him a promotion. I’ve seen this a lot in the oilfield as well.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
It's my concern. It's been my concern for awhile with this coach; he was the architect of that putrid offense. It's still there too, Watson has just been covering it up pretty well up to this point. But there were glimpses of that sputtering offense last season. Now this coach is the GM too, and he's made a bunch of high risk moves, in my humble opinion.

Chugging along or disarray? If the gambles O'Brien has made don't pay off, it's going to be a hot mess.

As far as JB, I don't know...I've seen threads about football evolve (or devolve, depending on your own view) to discussions about BBQ, fishing, bourbon, lakes and just plain silliness. And I just go along with it, no harm, no foul. If someone wants to be sour puss about it, that's their prerogative too.
After re-watching the Ta.pa game, I guess we're watching 2 different games. Re- watch it again and let me know what you think.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I have read or heard this multiple times as a "pro" for this trade. Out of curiosity, do you have a game, series or play in mind where you saw Watson ignored a wide open first down streak while waiting for Hopkins to get open?
Watch the Tampa and Tennessee games.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
It's my concern. It's been my concern for awhile with this coach; he was the architect of that putrid offense. It's still there too, Watson has just been covering it up pretty well up to this point. But there were glimpses of that sputtering offense last season. Now this coach is the GM too, and he's made a bunch of high risk moves, in my humble opinion.

Chugging along or disarray? If the gambles O'Brien has made don't pay off, it's going to be a hot mess.

As far as JB, I don't know...I've seen threads about football evolve (or devolve, depending on your own view) to discussions about BBQ, fishing, bourbon, lakes and just plain silliness. And I just go along with it, no harm, no foul. If someone wants to be sour puss about it, that's their prerogative too.
Yep high risk maybe high results moves this offseason but what I want to see is O'Brien either gone or recognized as good coach. I want to be able to say Watson is a top 5 QB. What I fear is same old same old and nothing improving enough to get us over the hump.
 

welsh texan

All Pro
I have read or heard this multiple times as a "pro" for this trade. Out of curiosity, do you have a game, series or play in mind where you saw Watson ignored a wide open first down streak while waiting for Hopkins to get open?
Openning drive of the Jags game at Wembley, off the top of my head. Now, I know that this isn’t a great example because everything worked out dandy for Deshaun that day. But you watch, I think there are 3 plays in that openning drive where he holds onto it when there is a good gain/1st down on offer, dances around a bit, and then comes back to throw later.
I have a brain like a sieve, so forgive me if I’m wrong, but the next game he’s making the same mistakes, and getting punished for it.
The problem we have had the past couple of years, is if Hopkins has been covered well, the whole offense slows down. It seems like if we can force the ball to Hopkins early and often, it opens up everything else. If we can’t get it to Hopkins, we don’t have anything open.
I hope this is correct anyway. We have a pretty good cast of receivers now and should be able to target the Ds weakness instead of hoping their strength doesn’t mitigate ours.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Yep high risk maybe high results moves this offseason but what I want to see is O'Brien either gone or recognized as good coach. I want to be able to say Watson is a top 5 QB. What I fear is same old same old and nothing improving enough to get us over the hump.
If DW4 becomes a top 5 QB then BoB will become a much better HC.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Openning drive of the Jags game at Wembley, off the top of my head. Now, I know that this isn’t a great example because everything worked out dandy for Deshaun that day. But you watch, I think there are 3 plays in that openning drive where he holds onto it when there is a good gain/1st down on offer, dances around a bit, and then comes back to throw later.
I have a brain like a sieve, so forgive me if I’m wrong, but the next game he’s making the same mistakes, and getting punished for it.
The problem we have had the past couple of years, is if Hopkins has been covered well, the whole offense slows down. It seems like if we can force the ball to Hopkins early and often, it opens up everything else. If we can’t get it to Hopkins, we don’t have anything open.
I hope this is correct anyway. We have a pretty good cast of receivers now and should be able to target the Ds weakness instead of hoping their strength doesn’t mitigate ours.
Quoted for truth
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
If DW4 becomes a top 5 QB then BoB will become a much better HC.
Not necessarily unless you consider turning offense over to Kelly being a better coach {and I do}. HC as it is said truly gets credit and condemnation when not due but sometimes it is. I am just ready to move on in the Watson/O'Brien debate.
 

dream_team

Hall of Fame
Openning drive of the Jags game at Wembley, off the top of my head. Now, I know that this isn’t a great example because everything worked out dandy for Deshaun that day. But you watch, I think there are 3 plays in that openning drive where he holds onto it when there is a good gain/1st down on offer, dances around a bit, and then comes back to throw later.
I have a brain like a sieve, so forgive me if I’m wrong, but the next game he’s making the same mistakes, and getting punished for it.
The problem we have had the past couple of years, is if Hopkins has been covered well, the whole offense slows down. It seems like if we can force the ball to Hopkins early and often, it opens up everything else. If we can’t get it to Hopkins, we don’t have anything open.
I hope this is correct anyway. We have a pretty good cast of receivers now and should be able to target the Ds weakness instead of hoping their strength doesn’t mitigate ours.
I re-watched that 1st series of the Jags game in London. I don't quite see what you're talking about. Maybe it was a different series?

I see only one play where Deshaun held onto the ball, where he possibly had a better short option.

It was 1st & 10 at the Jags 37. Play action pass. Was in max protection, so only 3 receivers going out to 7 defensive backs. There were 7 guys blocking 4 pass rushers. Tunsil & Scharping were 1-1. The 2 TEs doubled on the DE. For some reason, the DT was triple teamed by Martin, Zach & Tytus?

Anyways, Stills & Hop go deep. Both of the receivers are basically triple teamed. DW should have checked down to Hyde and probably would have picked up 5-6 yards.

Despite not hitting his check-down, Watson rolls out of the pocket and throws a dime to Hyde and hits him right in the hands for a 25 yard gain. But Hyde does what Hyde does, which is drop balls.

I also have some questions about the OL in that play. I don't understand why the triple team on the DL. I also wonder if Akins should have done a delayed release? He wasn't really doing much protection wise, but there was so much empty green space in front of him.

Despite all of this, should have been a TD on this first series if Steven Mitchell runs the right route in a subsequent play.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
I'm not impressed after game 1. Bright spots of course but same Deshaun running when he shouldn't, eating ball for sack when he did nothing to counter the defense doing a full player blitz. The announcer even mentioned HC Andy Reid willing to gamble on it. All of us were yelling "here they come." The oline did bend and once Howard was brutalized letting #4 get hit but overall line looked better.

David Johnson 11 for 77 on ground and 3 receptions for 32 and he scored a TD that's good for a B grade. BTW where the Heck was our high $ slot Randall Cobb most of the dang game? First game our coordinaters should be looking for new jobs if this is what's to be expected. Yeah first half of first Q like many others I was going to be Tim Kelly's new BFF. Ha! Glad I didn't give him my cell number.

PJ Hall looked good the few snaps I saw him but JJ showed why he isn't asking for more $. Effort but 2 tackles and 1 assist? As I think CloaknnnDagger mentioned, Weaver had to move him inside because he can't tackle anyone going outside.

Did Dashaun ever throw deep other than out of bounds? What happened to using our speed? Yeah Willy boy butterfingered his first target (think was his 1st) but he did avg 14 yards. TE Akins looked great as I predicted but was not the target I hoped. Like 2019 Watson threw some then forgot his TEs. Fells caught one pass right? Why do we need three Tight Ends if not going to use them Tim?
Did anyone see any halftime adjustments by either Coordinator? Much more to say but I'm disgusted and sleepy.

One game but will ten days bring any hope against Ravens? What blame gets thrown onto Obrien?
 

HuttoKarl

Veteran
He did. We even ran the ball when we were down 17 points in the third quarter.
I would like to see an offensive coordinator that sees what he's got in Watson and actually create innovative ways to use him as the weapon he should be. You don't run a 1986 offense with a guy like that. You don't run an offense based on what you saw Tom Brady do back in the day.

Billdo needs to be gone two years ago. Get a coaching staff with some creative spark for the love of christ. We have a few more years before Watson goes to play for someone who knows how to use him.
 

KarlK

Waterboy
Coming up on 4 months since I created this thread. Purpose was to voice if this team and management has a plan going into 2020 and 2021 or are in disarray.
Has your opinion changed or solidified?
It is hard to evaluate comments coming from coaching any preseason but this one is more difficult for me.

Where I am today some based on news and some on my gut:
1. Health remains key but we do have some depth.
2. I think Watt, Roby, Jacob Martin and Fuller are four keys
3. Blacklock, John Reid and WR Isaac Whitney rookie draft picks that could have significant time on field.
4. Best non draft addition Brandin Cooks. I think with healthy oline this WR will assist Watson make pro bowl again and perhaps all pro by being probowler himself.
5. Player that concerns me the most.. Dashaun Watson. Spotlight on him even more if Obrien leaves Kelly alone. If offense remains healthy and we get 2/3 of David Johnson's production in 2016, Watson should be at least 2nd best QB in AFC and third in NFL.

Your thoughts?
He should concern you, because he's not that good of a quarterback.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Well now that we wasted Watson Rookie deal its all over now from here on out its up to Watson to get us a SB win its all on him even if he has a sub par team around him he still has to carry this WHOLLEEEE team on his back and make it happen
Get your facts correct, Watson played three seasons and one of those was injured severely. 2019 was a good season for him but I wanted and so did he to significantly improve 2020. He did not show it this game. He has time to do so but proof is on him. His rookie deal ended after three seasons due to the extension and increased 2020 cap hit.
He did not carry the team on his back this game. His RB David J. was very good but only had 11 carries/ 77 yards and 4 targets in passing of which he caught three for over ten yards. Fells had a great catch and AKins had two; why not more to those two TEs?
Everyone including me thought OB held Watson back in past but Kelly called this game...so much for that excuse. I like Dashaun and have him as an outside the top 5 NFL QBs. I expect him to be there end of this season; so does he.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
W
Get your facts correct, Watson played three seasons and one of those was injured severely. 2019 was a good season for him but I wanted and so did he to significantly improve 2020. He did not show it this game. He has time to do so but proof is on him. His rookie deal ended after three seasons due to the extension and increased 2020 cap hit.
He did not carry the team on his back this game. His RB David J. was very good but only had 11 carries/ 77 yards and 4 targets in passing of which he caught three for over ten yards. Fells had a great catch and AKins had two; why not more to those two TEs?
Everyone including me thought OB held Watson back in past but Kelly called this game...so much for that excuse. I like Dashaun and have him as an outside the top 5 NFL QBs. I expect him to be there end of this season; so does he.
What does Kelly have to qualify him as a good play caller?
To begin with, the play design is already poor/noninnovative.
A good play caller would still have a difficult time to make it work.
 
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OptimisticTexan

Go Texans 1-1...Post OB!!!!!
Get your facts correct, Watson played three seasons and one of those was injured severely. 2019 was a good season for him but I wanted and so did he to significantly improve 2020. He did not show it this game. He has time to do so but proof is on him. His rookie deal ended after three seasons due to the extension and increased 2020 cap hit.
He did not carry the team on his back this game. His RB David J. was very good but only had 11 carries/ 77 yards and 4 targets in passing of which he caught three for over ten yards. Fells had a great catch and AKins had two; why not more to those two TEs?
Everyone including me thought OB held Watson back in past but Kelly called this game...so much for that excuse. I like Dashaun and have him as an outside the top 5 NFL QBs. I expect him to be there end of this season; so does he.
So you're saying Kelly drew up the gameplan without OB's input? Based on what I saw, this was 100% OB's gameplan called to perfection by Kelly. This smells and looks like Godsey all over again. Like Godsey, Kelly would never call OB out.

OB will probably use Kelly to take the black-eye in the first 5-6 games. He will blame the offensive woes on Kelly's inexperience and has made the decision to step back in as OC for the final 10-11 games.......ummmm, the easy ones.

This really sucks for the Texans offense b/c OB's plays will be so predictable that he might as well can the headset and just hold a placard up with the play so Watson can can see it from the huddle. At least when they play at home he can use the teams jumbo-tron to send the plays in.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
So you're saying Kelly drew up the gameplan without OB's input? Based on what I saw, this was 100% OB's gameplan called to perfection by Kelly. This smells and looks like Godsey all over again. Like Godsey, Kelly would never call OB out.

OB will probably use Kelly to take the black-eye in the first 5-6 games. He will blame the offensive woes on Kelly's inexperience and has made the decision to step back in as OC for the final 10-11 games.......ummmm, the easy ones.

This really sucks for the Texans offense b/c OB's plays will be so predictable that he might as well can the headset and just hold a placard up with the play so Watson can can see it from the huddle. At least when they play at home he can use the teams jumbo-tron to send the plays in.
What I'm saying is for months most of us called for Kelly to call plays as if it would correct things as he has better repoire with Dashaun. At minimum he could be no worse. No one thought Kelly would bring different game plan than O'Brien's.

What happened? Let's not change the conversation many of us had. Let Kelly call plays and manage/guide #4. Well he did and what happened?
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Is the Chiefs’ OC still available? Cal needs to forget about trying to be the Patriots and instead go all in on trying to be the Chiefs! Fire O’Brien and press charges on his arse!
I mentioned Bienemy to my friends last night. OB not going anywhere this season barring 4-12 and maybe not then.

Hire Bienemy as assistant HC and let him run offense while Kelly learns.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
W

What does Kelly have to qualify him as a good play caller?
To begin with, the play design is already poor/noninnovative.
A good play caller would still have a difficult time to make it work.
More excuses

Same as when Carr was here

Wash/Rinse/Repeat
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
So you're saying Kelly drew up the gameplan without OB's input? Based on what I saw, this was 100% OB's gameplan called to perfection by Kelly. This smells and looks like Godsey all over again. Like Godsey, Kelly would never call OB out.

OB will probably use Kelly to take the black-eye in the first 5-6 games. He will blame the offensive woes on Kelly's inexperience and has made the decision to step back in as OC for the final 10-11 games.......ummmm, the easy ones.

This really sucks for the Texans offense b/c OB's plays will be so predictable that he might as well can the headset and just hold a placard up with the play so Watson can can see it from the huddle. At least when they play at home he can use the teams jumbo-tron to send the plays in.
Doesn't matter, more excuses.

Over the next 4 yrs fans will either discover the truth, or comtinue to live in denial.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
I never said you did

This is nothing more than history repeating itself,

4 more yrs
So you're saying Watson = Carr?

Who the heck was the GM that gave Watson an extension?

You already said you're ready to fire the HC, but you kept making excuses for the GM.
You also said to wait to see that the new GM + the HC > Rick Smith + the HC.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
So you're saying Watson = Carr?

Who the heck was the GM that gave Watson an extension?

You already said you're ready to fire the HC, but you kept making excuses for the GM.
You also said to wait to see that the new GM + the HC > Rick Smith + the HC.
Ownershi made the decision to re-sign DW4.

Ownership is the constant. BOB is the symptom.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
OB will probably use Kelly to take the black-eye in the first 5-6 games. He will blame the offensive woes on Kelly's inexperience and has made the decision to step back in as OC for the final 10-11 games.......ummmm, the easy ones.
That would be a strange decision. He named an offensive coordinator knowing he wasn’t very good at it.

If that guy fails, it’s not like BO’b is going to fix anything by calling plays. It’s not like Shanahan or Kubiak who were good play calllers giving someone an opportunity.

BO’b names a play caller because he couldn’t, not with the extra duties as GM.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
O’b names a play caller because he couldn’t, not with the extra duties as GM.
OB named an OC to do most of the legwork preparing the game plam, but he will still call the plays. We saw that Thursday night
 


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