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Texans Offensive Line

steelbtexan said:
Is he a top RT? I see him as slightly above avg when healthy. Now, he's being paid like a top RT and that's a mistake. IMHO
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Well...can you objectively name 10 RT's that are better than Tytus...key word being OBJECTIVELY.
Dont be biased and use your TEXANHATERISM monocular that you use for everything else...I genuinely want to know...
When he was moved back to RT he's played good and most talking heads and professionals thought that the combo bookends of Tunsil and Howard would be one of the best in the league.
 
badboy said:
R

RBs make or break with their oline so cross discussion is good IMO. Q allowed 7 sacks so.. I don’t care how good he was run blocking; continue that and we will need to add couple more QBs to 4 we have.

Tunsil is known as finesse blocker and mean streak never mentioned. In that respect so was Duane Brown. IIRC, a guy named Bruce Matthews did pretty well for a season or two.
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Yeah I know about his pass blocking deficiencies but I think a lot of that can be attributed to having trash on both sides of him and a **** scheme. Nit saying he was great or even really good. Just the best out of all interior OL. putting a rookie in there at C isn’t going to improve that either. It’s going to be tough going fora rookie QB with consistent pressure up the middle. I would rather see Mills or Keenan start early until those guys prove themselves somewhat. I don’t want to see another David Carr situation.

not sure how you got D Btown as a finesse blocker. He was a powerful beast. Mathews was known as a great technician but wasn’t soft at all.
 
76Texan said:
Sure, Green was pretty bad last year, but
Scott Q was graded worst in both pass pro and in the run by PFF at the Center position.

www.yardbarker.com

Report: Texans to re-sign C Scott Quessenberry

The Texans have reportedly re-signed center Scott Quessenberry.
www.yardbarker.com www.yardbarker.com
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Yeah I like PFF but there grades need to be taken with a grain of salt. Watch for yourself and tell me how the hell he graded out that bad in the run game. PFF isn’t the be all end all.
 
mussop said:
Yeah I like PFF but there grades need to be taken with a grain of salt. Watch for yourself and tell me how the hell he graded out that bad in the run game. PFF isn’t the be all end all.
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From last to wherever you had him, was there a big difference?

I don't know where I would rank him among the 32 centers in the run blocking department, but definitely not above average.
 
sprtsfanatic said:
Well...can you objectively name 10 RT's that are better than Tytus...key word being OBJECTIVELY.
Dont be biased and use your TEXANHATERISM monocular that you use for everything else...I genuinely want to know...
When he was moved back to RT he's played good and most talking heads and professionals thought that the combo bookends of Tunsil and Howard would be one of the best in the league.
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Most of that talk was centered on their pass blocking. Go watch the video I posted. Titus doesn’t sustain blocks for ****. Way too many times guys easily disengage him and he just stops and walks towards the play. I hate that. We’re supposedly wanting to be a run dominant team. I don’t see how that is possible with you’re two highest paid guys being fineness and lazy. Maybe Meco can coach that out of them and make them more aggressive. Hopefully.
 
thunderkyss said:
WHAT??

I used to have a DB video owning James Harrison... can't find it now, but no, Duane Brown wasn't finesse.
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You beat me to this. Was going to say the same thing using the same example. Just thinking about that block by DB puts a smile on my face. Brown was a brawler that had the athleticism to play in Gibbs ZBS. He's terribly underrated over the course of his career.
mussop said:
Yeah I like PFF but there grades need to be taken with a grain of salt. Watch for yourself and tell me how the hell he graded out that bad in the run game. PFF isn’t the be all end all.
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I've always felt that way. But I've never gone back to grade every player in every game, either. Was Quessenberry's sack allowed total overstated? Maybe. But I'd rather claw my eyes out than rewatch the 2022 Texans season.
 
76Texan said:
From last to wherever you had him, was there a big difference?

I don't know where I would rank him among the 32 centers in the run blocking department, but definitely not above average.
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I don’t watch other centers. Have no idea. Just know what I have watched and he was the best C on this team. Obviously the coaches think that as well as he was in the starting lineup To start the season. You’re very good at breaking down play by play. Check it out and see you see if you agree with PFF. I can see him being easily replaced. Just not with any of the current players. he is good enough to start here and do well enough if both Guards are playing at a high level. JMO.
 
sprtsfanatic said:
Well...can you objectively name 10 RT's that are better than Tytus...key word being OBJECTIVELY.
Dont be biased and use your TEXANHATERISM monocular that you use for everything else...I genuinely want to know...
When he was moved back to RT he's played good and most talking heads and professionals thought that the combo bookends of Tunsil and Howard would be one of the best in the league.
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I will look at this later.
 
mussop said:
I don’t watch other centers. Have no idea. Just know what I have watched and he was the best C on this team. Obviously the coaches think that as well as he was in the starting lineup To start the season. You’re very good at breaking down play by play. Check it out and see you see if you agree with PFF. I can see him being easily replaced. Just not with any of the current players. he is good enough to start here and do well enough if both Guards are playing at a high level. JMO.
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I just went back and watch the Texans games agaisnt the Titans mid year.
It doesn't take that long when you open the playbook (play by play summary).
Pierce went 15-35 in this game so you know the blocking must be bad.

I'd say it's a probably a tie between Quess and McCray (RG) for the race to the bottom, with Green in third.
The couple of long gains were to the outside.
 
mussop said:
I don’t watch other centers. Have no idea. Just know what I have watched and he was the best C on this team. Obviously the coaches think that as well as he was in the starting lineup To start the season. You’re very good at breaking down play by play. Check it out and see you see if you agree with PFF. I can see him being easily replaced. Just not with any of the current players. he is good enough to start here and do well enough if both Guards are playing at a high level. JMO.
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Deiter's tapes at Center with the Dolphins weren't too bad; definitely better than Quess' last year, I can tell you that much.

Scruggs looked promising in college; so did Patterson (actually he looked really good, except for the injuries).
 
76Texan said:
Deiter's tapes at Center with the Dolphins weren't too bad; definitely better than Quess' last year, I can tell you that much.

Scruggs looked promising in college; so did Patterson (actually he looked really good, except for the injuries).
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I think Patterson just got onto the practice field right or am I mistake?
 
mussop said:
I don’t watch other centers. Have no idea. Just know what I have watched and he was the best C on this team.
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That's always been my argument as well. I'm not judging Q against other Centers in the league. On this roster, I thought he was the best. I wanted them to draft a replacement just as much as anyone who was looking to upgrade at the end of day 2
 
sprtsfanatic said:
Well...can you objectively name 10 RT's that are better than Tytus...key word being OBJECTIVELY.
Dont be biased and use your TEXANHATERISM monocular that you use for everything else...I genuinely want to know...
When he was moved back to RT he's played good and most talking heads and professionals thought that the combo bookends of Tunsil and Howard would be one of the best in the league.
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Johnson
Moton
Wirfs
Ramcyck
Sewell
O'niell
Lucas
Havenstien
McGlinchey
Indy Smith
Taylor
Conklin
Salyer

You have more that it would be debatable, but he's on par with when he's healthy.

Buffalo- Brown
Cincy -Williams
Dallas- Steele
Baltimore- Moses
Atlanta- McGary, a guy who I think he's really comparable too.

Then you've got young guys who have potential to be better than Howard but are Young.

Arizona- Paris Johnson
Chicago- Darnell Wright
NYG- Neal
 
thunderkyss said:
This is where PFF & Reality just don't jive. Now I don't chart plays like some folk do, but I was focused on Q since preseason 2022. I entered the 2022 season hoping that Morrisey would win the starting C position, but since the first preseason game I felt Q out performed him & Britt & thought Q should be the starting Center.

NFL doesn't work like that, I get it. Britt was the Starter, fine. But when Britt made a career decision, it made sense to me that Q would be the starter, & he was. I still liked Morrisey, but I thought Q was a lot better.

So I watched Q all season long & I didn't see 7 sacks given up. I don't think the Texans did either.

I like Scruggs. I've only seen him play one NFL game & I think he's got what it takes. Is he ready, I don't know. I hope he is, I'm sure the coaches know either way & we'll see in the upcoming games.


WHAT??

I used to have a DB video owning James Harrison... can't find it now, but no, Duane Brown wasn't finesse.
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Athletic 300-310 many years before landing at 335 ish. Never heard him described as a power block. He was Athletic and played mostly in ZBS. Good LT but as I saw him: a technique guy that rarely flattened opponents near his size.

Edit: Harrison? 242 pounds? 🤣😂
 
mussop said:
Yeah I know about his pass blocking deficiencies but I think a lot of that can be attributed to having trash on both sides of him and a **** scheme. Nit saying he was great or even really good. Just the best out of all interior OL. putting a rookie in there at C isn’t going to improve that either. It’s going to be tough going fora rookie QB with consistent pressure up the middle. I would rather see Mills or Keenan start early until those guys prove themselves somewhat. I don’t want to see another David Carr situation.

not sure how you got D Btown as a finesse blocker. He was a powerful beast. Mathews was known as a great technician but wasn’t soft at all.
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A finesse guy isn't soft, not sure how you got that. Brown , Tunsil and especially Matthews at about 305~ knew how to use their strength and techniques to win against opponents. My idea of a mauler is one who just knocks guys down and never gives ground. That's nether Brown or Tunsil.

I think you are wrong about rookie Juice Scruggs.
 
mussop said:
Yeah I like PFF but there grades need to be taken with a grain of salt. Watch for yourself and tell me how the hell he graded out that bad in the run game. PFF isn’t the be all end all.
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Any other sources saying how many sacks Q gave up?
 
Lucky said:
You beat me to this. Was going to say the same thing using the same example. Just thinking about that block by DB puts a smile on my face. Brown was a brawler that had the athleticism to play in Gibbs ZBS. He's terribly underrated over the course of his career.

I've always felt that way. But I've never gone back to grade every player in every game, either. Was Quessenberry's sack allowed total overstated? Maybe. But I'd rather claw my eyes out than rewatch the 2022 Texans season.
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It should tell you something if Brown was under rated most of his career. Many people don't agree with you. I liked Brown and considered him good quality player who was able to stay on field for most part. Manhandling a 245 pound opponent is not supporting your claim.
 
76Texan said:
Deiter's tapes at Center with the Dolphins weren't too bad; definitely better than Quess' last year, I can tell you that much.

Scruggs looked promising in college; so did Patterson (actually he looked really good, except for the injuries).
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If Q was the choice for starting center for 2024, i cannot see why they drafted Scruggs and Patterson. Q getting nod in TC as starter had to do with him being best vet available not how he was expected to do.
 
thunderkyss said:
That's always been my argument as well. I'm not judging Q against other Centers in the league. On this roster, I thought he was the best. I wanted them to draft a replacement just as much as anyone who was looking to upgrade at the end of day 2
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I just don't understand why him being best center on last years roster has anything to do with him even being on roster. David Culley was our best offensive coach two years ago but he wasn't kept.
 
badboy said:
It should tell you something if Brown was under rated most of his career. Many people don't agree with you.
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I should tell you that I usually think less of the opinions of others than my own. Go figure.

First I've ever seen of where 5x Pro Bowler, 2x All Pro, and DPOY James Harrison was an easy block.
badboy said:
David Culley was our best offensive coach two years ago but he wasn't kept.
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This is unique.
 
badboy said:
If Q was the choice for starting center for 2024, i cannot see why they drafted Scruggs and Patterson. Q getting nod in TC as starter had to do with him being best vet available not how he was expected to do.
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Why did he get all the first team rep?

Just so that Scruggs will start the season without playing with the rest of the Oline?
 
Lucky said:
I should tell you that I usually think less of the opinions of others than my own. Go figure.

First I've ever seen of where 5x Pro Bowler, 2x All Pro, and DPOY James Harrison was an easy block.

This is unique.
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And you still haven't seen it said Harrison is an easy block..
 
76Texan said:
Why did he get all the first team rep?

Just so that Scruggs will start the season without playing with the rest of the Oline?
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Remind me again how much playing time Q has as the starter in PRESEASON ? As I have said, Q has experience with Oline players and is a vet. Time with the 1s , what little time there was is no surprise. Hoping for lightning in a bottle happens in training camp. He's injured so I'm moving on.
 
Josh Jones added to the mix on the OL. He’s an ascending young talent. Former 3rd round pick who can provide depth at both OT/OG. Has flashed starter level talent. Maybe he can show he’s worth a look as a starter if Green can’t get it going this year?

I am happy the Texans aren’t going to sit and wait for players to get healthy. The offensive line has been addressed repeatedly this offseason. Fant has not looked like a reliable starter this preseason unfortunately. But Jones added to the mix gives us hope that the leaks will be plugged until Tytus Howard makes it back!

Just wonder if Heck still has a place on this roster? He has been injured all camp and expected to be placed on PUP to start the season.

I thought Fant might take his job. But Jones being added makes me fairly certain his position as swing OT is now filled.
 
TheRealJoker said:
Josh Jones added to the mix on the OL. He’s an ascending young talent. Former 3rd round pick who can provide depth at both OT/OG. Has flashed starter level talent. Maybe he can show he’s worth a look as a starter if Green can’t get it going this year?

I am happy the Texans aren’t going to sit and wait for players to get healthy. The offensive line has been addressed repeatedly this offseason. Fant has not looked like a reliable starter this preseason unfortunately. But Jones added to the mix gives us hope that the leaks will be plugged until Tytus Howard makes it back!

Just wonder if Heck still has a place on this roster? He has been injured all camp and expected to be placed on PUP to start the season.

I thought Fant might take his job. But Jones being added makes me fairly certain his position as swing OT is now filled.
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Jones would be a solid swing tackle. I agree that after Fant’s showing in preseason that Jones will be the choice.
 
Buckeye Homer said:
Laremy is worth his weight in gold. Pound for pound he might be the best player on the team.
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How was Quessenberry (sp??) 40th among centers with only 32 teams in the league? Where's that facepalm pic?

From ESPN:

Round 2, No. 62 overall: Juice Scruggs, C, Penn State
My take: The Texans needed to add depth to the center position. Their incumbent starter Scott Quessenberry had a pass block win rate of 86.8% last season, which ranked 40th among centers. In addition, Quessenberry had a run block win rate of 66.2% (36th). Scruggs was a two-year starter at Penn State and displayed versatility as he played center and guard.
Will he start as a rookie? The starting spot won't be given to Scruggs, but the Texans did trade into the second round, sending the 65, 188 and 230 overall picks to the Philadelphia Eagles for the selection. That move alone show that they believe in him, but it'll be up to Scruggs to earn the spot.
 
Buckeye Homer said:
How was Quessenberry (sp??) 40th among centers with only 32 teams in the league? Where's that facepalm pic?

From ESPN:

Round 2, No. 62 overall: Juice Scruggs, C, Penn State
My take: The Texans needed to add depth to the center position. Their incumbent starter Scott Quessenberry had a pass block win rate of 86.8% last season, which ranked 40th among centers. In addition, Quessenberry had a run block win rate of 66.2% (36th). Scruggs was a two-year starter at Penn State and displayed versatility as he played center and guard.
Will he start as a rookie? The starting spot won't be given to Scruggs, but the Texans did trade into the second round, sending the 65, 188 and 230 overall picks to the Philadelphia Eagles for the selection. That move alone show that they believe in him, but it'll be up to Scruggs to earn the spot.
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Q was really bad. Constantly allowing pressure in the QB's face. Mills never stood a chance with Lovie/Pep/Q etc....
 
Buckeye Homer said:
How was Quessenberry (sp??) 40th among centers with only 32 teams in the league? Where's that facepalm pic?

From ESPN:

Round 2, No. 62 overall: Juice Scruggs, C, Penn State
My take: The Texans needed to add depth to the center position. Their incumbent starter Scott Quessenberry had a pass block win rate of 86.8% last season, which ranked 40th among centers. In addition, Quessenberry had a run block win rate of 66.2% (36th). Scruggs was a two-year starter at Penn State and displayed versatility as he played center and guard.
Will he start as a rookie? The starting spot won't be given to Scruggs, but the Texans did trade into the second round, sending the 65, 188 and 230 overall picks to the Philadelphia Eagles for the selection. That move alone show that they believe in him, but it'll be up to Scruggs to earn the spot.
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7 backup centers were better than Q. If coaches didn’t think Scruggs could be significantly better, he shouldn't have been drafted round two. IMO, Juice is less risky than Stroud, even less when draft spot is included.
 
badboy said:
IMO, Juice is less risky than Stroud, even less when draft spot is included.
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You're absolutely correct. It's always a massive risk taking a QB in the 1st round, especially in the top 5, with so many other "safer" picks at other positions. There's really no way to KNOW if they're going to work out but ya gotta roll the dice and sometimes it pays off beautifully and sometimes not.
 
Buckeye Homer said:
And I previously thought he was going to be a big loss. Boy was I wrong!
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I've been saying this. Tkyss disagrees with me on this. He thinks Q was good at least in the run game, but it seemed like every time I watched Q, he ended up either standing there blocking air or on his ass blocking air.

Scruggs was my hope as soon as he was drafted, with Dieter or one of the other experienced linemen we'd picked up as options. But I never expected to enter the season with Q as our starting C.
 
Buckeye Homer said:
You're absolutely correct. It's always a massive risk taking a QB in the 1st round, especially in the top 5, with so many other "safer" picks at other positions. There's really no way to KNOW if they're going to work out but ya gotta roll the dice and sometimes it pays off beautifully and sometimes not.
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The worst thing you can do is force the pick when it comes to drafting a QB.
 
Sweech said:
I think we may see an improvement from Green (not saying he'll even be good, just an improvement) simply due to not having to play next to Ques anymore.
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He will be an avg to slightly above avg LG next year and if he's healthy I think you will see Green be really good. I expect him to be much improved, but when you're coming off of surgery like he is, you can never get in a real off-season to improve. IMHO
 
steelbtexan said:
He will be an avg to slightly above avg LG next year and if he's healthy I think you will see Green be really good. I expect him to be much improved, but when you're coming off of surgery like he is, you can never get in a real off-season to improve. IMHO
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At this point, they can either IR or cut him. I don’t really care which.:mad:
 
Buckeye Homer said:
Unlike my buddy @JB, my guess is that the staff is not going to be content with the OL at season's end and will invest a first in the best lineman available. I think they gotta have a really good OL before pursuing skill positions.
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You may be right. I am no longer as confidant in Green as I was, seems staying healthy will be an issue for him.
 
Buckeye Homer said:
Unlike my buddy @JB, my guess is that the staff is not going to be content with the OL at season's end and will invest a first in the best lineman available. I think they gotta have a really good OL before pursuing skill positions.
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What I am wondering? Are we just that bad at evaluating this position, or is our coaching really bad? We have invested more in the O-line than any other position. Tunsil is the highest paid LT in football and we aquired him for two first rounders, Green and Howard were first rounders as well, Scruggs an early second rounder and Shaq Mason a well payed FA acquisition. Is there any O-Line in the NFL, that has a higher salary or more high draft picks invested than the Texans? That's really frustrating - either they need to get new scouts or new coaches or both...
 
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