theCATALYST
Football Messiah
And that is really all that matters when discussing these two.
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O'Brien vs. Kubiak
- Thread starter 76Texan
- Start date
And that is really all that matters when discussing these two.
For perspective, David Carr's cap space in 2006 was the 8th highest in the league.
https://overthecap.com/position/quarterback/2006/
Between Carr and Foster, Kubiak was already in some big holes.
And that only made it harder to sign any FA of note.
He wasn't under Kubiak.
And, yes RS should've drafted a QB atleast every 3 yrs fairly high so he could have a QB ready when Schaub got injured.
Same goes with DW4/BOB, only problem is with the lack of draft choices this cant really afford to do this for 3 yrs.
Four blow-out play-off losses says O'Brien is a below-average to bad HC.
He's not even mediocre.
Who stopped O'Brien from drafting a guy like Teddy, Derek, or Jimmy G?
Anybody that says differently either 1. Has an agenda 2. Isn't really interested in having an honest discussion. Their focus above all else is being right.
Even though the records say their wrong.
RS,
You need to talk to one of our MB members about this. A person with intimate knowledge about RS and the drafting of QB's while Kubiak was here. This guy was actually in the room when some of these decisions were being made.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
From a front office source I know who reacted to this statement, this categorically was never said to Keenum.........further stating that those who have worked closely with him over the years in this or any other organizations, with all of his F-bombs and everything, no one has ever heard him try to do anything but motivate his players............in no way to ever degrade a player in any way close to that. And as a response to Keenum's book statement, O'Brien went on the record “As a head football coach in the NFL, there are times decisions are made that are maybe perceived in a certain way. But in all my years of coaching, I’ve never said anything like that to any player.”
Keenum has said in the past that he has been motivated by the many rejections he has received along the way. Along this line, it is felt that Keenum in his mind "heard"/falsely derived that since he was not kept on as a starting or backup quarterback, it was telling him that he was not worth more than a 3rd string quarterback.
Texansballer74
The Marine
It’s so easy to google these things.
Who stopped OB from drafting Wentz, Prescott, or even Brissett?
And i always said action speaks louder than words.
Who cut Keenum?
And in favor of whom?
Keenum turned into a viable backup QB. He wasn't even that under Kubiak.
Not a long term starting option. Is this the hill you really want to die on? Keenum/Kubiak 0-8, Keenum/BOB 2-0
BOB wasn't in charge of the draft. Neither was Kubiak. BTW, they made suggestions but RS made the final call. Only time that changed was when Wade was hired, he was given the 1st/2nd rd picks in his 1st draft.
That would be the GM.
theCATALYST
Football Messiah
Without digging for the articles, wasn't it popular opinion after that draft that we where in fact going to draft Jimmy G, before New England jumped us and took him? Which resulted in us drafting C.J. Fiedorowicz, a TE that Bilichick supposedly wanted.
You should give it a try.
Search on this MB that offseason as a starting point.
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/texans-obrien-talks-quarterback-competition/amp/
There was no competition.
That was what O'Brien said, and he went out and cut Keenum, keeping Savage, and brought in Mallett.
There was no competition.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Dude I’m a fan and I remember a lot of the media heads picking the Texans to win it all way before the season started. I wasn’t talking about what was said on here because I wasn’t a member back then.
So the Texans had the no 33 pick and they took a guard and let the Pats scoop up Jimmy G?
You may want to go up the hill of the 0-4 blow-out play-off losses, my brother.
theCATALYST
Football Messiah
I believe the front office felt Jimmy could be had in the third round. Hindsight 20/20, our #33 pick was a waste of space, and Jimmy went pick 62, just before our #65 pick Fiedorowicz. In a perfect world, we could have had Jimmy instead of XSF in the 2nd, but such is the draft. When you gamble, you win some and lose some.
If Jimmy was truly what we wanted, RS lost that gamble thinking we could get him with pick 65. But....its all rumor and conjecture. Who really knows.
You can't gamble with the QB position, but that was what O'Brien continued to do, until DW4.
And it makes zero sense when you're retooling, not rebuilding.
In 2014, the Texans already had a pretty good offensive line, receivers, TEs, RBs.
theCATALYST
Football Messiah
I agree, but would you place that on Rick Smiths shoulders or O'Briens? Without a solid QB on the roster, 9 times out of 10 a new offensive minded head coach is given a QB of his choosing to build around. Missing out on Jimmy we ended up with a QB that fit OB's mold in the 4th by the name of Savage. I don't believe Smith ever placed any kind of value on drafting QB's early, so I blame him for missing out on Jimmy and ending up with Savage.
Texansballer74
The Marine
It was on both of their shoulders.
The Texans brought in Fitzpatrick and Mallett, both of whom had played in the EP system.
Mallett was drafted by the Pats in 2011 when OB was the OC.
To me, there was clearly a path that OB chose (and not Rick Smith's vision).
theCATALYST
Football Messiah
They can be viewed as consolation prizes. We didn't get the QB we desired in the draft, and the one we did get was not ready to start in the NFL (or ever), so we landed Fitz and later Mallett to carry the team until Savage could take over. So the effort was made, but we failed to develop our drafted QB, or, failed to cut bait early and find someone else. I wouldn't say they where part of an OB path so much as the best available at the time to run OB's offense, remember we where supposedly not in a rebuild at the time.
EDIT: Sorry....I am WAY off topic again.
You may want to go up the hill of the 0-4 blow-out play-off losses, my brother.
I didn't realize they were 0-4 under BOB in the playoffs?
Could that have anything to do with the likes of Hoyerable/Os and for that matter DW4 playing QB?
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Bill OBrien said Case Keenum would only amount to a 3rd string QB and then tried to play dumb about it later!!
Texans' Bill O'Brien doesn't recall telling Broncos' Case Keenum he was a third-stringer
Case Keenum recounted in his faith-based book, 'Playing for More: Trust Beyond What You...
You don't need 2 stop-gap QBs at a time.
Not only in 2014, but in 2015, the Texans went ahead and sign Hoyer (despite having all 3 Fitz, Mallett, and Savage on the roster.)
Rick Smith had always been drafting in the WCO until OB.
He even brought in Osweiler who had run the EP under Fox in Denver.
Everything had OB's fingerprint on it.
The only thing that matters are the 4 blow-out losses, just like the 2-14 that you're always fond to remind us about.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
That "pretty good" o-line began to crumble almost immediately under Kubiak after 2012 & really only had 1 reliable guy by the time BoB took over & Jimmy G was in the draft.
Your starting left guard from that 2012 team in Wade Smith was gone after that year........under Kubiak. Your starting center also retired after 2014...Under BoB. Both of these things set off a chain reaction that wound up seeing a back up RG move to LG before being shuffled to center. There was a clear hole at LG that basically forced BoB's hand in having to draft XSF in 2014...Which i will remind you was thought of as the best guard prospect in that draft at the time.
Brown was the only really reliable & proven guy in 2014...everyone else........ Brooks' issues are well chronicled but back in 2014, he was not the player he is now...
Derek Newton wasn't any great shakes either & was highly unreliable despite having 2 full years of starting under his belt by the time 2014 rolled around....Seem to remember him being this board's whipping boy too.
You factor all that in & the continued demise of the o-line with Newton going down in 2016, Brown wanting out & Brooks & Jones both leaving via FA....& then ask yourself whether or not Jimmy G could've handled all the punishment that he almost assuredly would've taken........that you actually saw DW4 take b/c the o-line was so bad...Me thinks it would've been a losers gamble to have taken Jimmy G back in 2014 knowing what we know now about our o-line now.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
The only thing that matters are the 4 blow-out losses, just like the 2-14 that you're always fond to remind us about.
Yeah, but Kubiak didn't lose as bad as BoB did!" lol you sound silly bro.
Texansballer74
The Marine
What was crazy, he lied to Mallet.
https://www.pff.com/news/2014-pff-offensive-line-rankings
That weak-A Oline was only ranked 5th.
And you forgot Ben Jones.
Myers only retired because he didn't want to play for another team.
Are you sure you have the recorded conversation?
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
1st of all you obviously didn't read my post b/c i did mention Jones...he's the back up RG that was moved to LG after Smith left & then moved to center after Myers left. 2nd of all, who gives a rip why Myers retired, point is, he wasn't going to be in the fold anymore past 2014 & his departure created another hole on that soon to be terrible o-line.
3rd, that PFF only proves what a stud Foster was as 2014 was the last season of his career he played double digit games. The year before that with all those same o-line pieces in place, the o-line as a whole wasn't even mediocore since according to your article they were 16th.....its not a coincidence than that that season Foster only played 8 games in 2013. We also know what happened to their ranking the following years after 2014 when he wasn't playing any at all.....Me thinks he was the reason that o-line was thought of so highly.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
You enjoyed 0-30 and the latest whipping?
You sound silly, bro.
No more than i enjoyed that ass whipping at the hands of the Pats in 2012
............. Foster barely played an effective game in 2013.
OK, so you did mention Jones, but you didn't mention that he also went on to a good contract with the Titans.
Kubiak had rebuilt that offensive line with 5th rounder, 6th rounder, and 3rd rounders, etc.
Did OB have even one of them?
Not a chance.No more than i enjoyed that ass whipping at the hands of the Pats in 2012
Not even close.
0-30 and a game people dupe to be near castatrophe, as bad as the 35-3 by the Oilers.
You sound really silly bro.
I'm not going to respond to this any further.
Wade smith was a backup before the Texans.
And Newton was a "whipping boy" that OB couldn't replace (he started 38 games under OB before injury did him in.)
Why couldn't OB develop any Olineman?
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Again what does it matter that he went on to a good contract with the Titans? He left via FA on his own. & it took him 6 years to rebuild that offensive line. Shall i name all the o-linemen that Kubiak failed to rebuild his o-line with prior to 2011? i'll give you a few:
Zach Weigert
Mike Flanagan
Ephraim Salaam
Chester Pitts
Casey Studdard
Mike Briesel
Eric Winston
Antoine Caldwell
Rashad Butler
Chris White
Charles Spencer
6 years of veritable failure there & he basically went through all those guys before he finally got the core that would form the 2011-2012 teams.
So don't act like Kubiak came in here, brought all those lineman from the 2011-2012 teams in over 1-2 seasons and that was it..he had PLENTY of fail along the way bud.
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Mr teX
Hall of Fame
The only Olineman you can say he really tried to replace was Smith (XSF) and Myers (Martin). 1 guy obviously was a fail, the other has just been ok. & He didn't have to replace Newton until 2016........when he went down with a terrible injury...& even after that i don't think he really tried to replace him until this past draft with Howard &/or Scharping.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
The lengths you've gone to by comparing losses...lol I don't know why i've been responding to you in the 1st place!
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
Remember how bad Kubiak's decisions were in finding a RB early on was? He screwed the team with guys like Amaan Green and Chris Brown who were totally finished at the time he over paid for them. The running game was terrible. It wasn't until the Texans had Slaton that they had a decent running game and then he only had one season before he fell apart. It took Kubiak like 4 or 5 years until he actually had a solid consistent running game that could be relied on for more than one season. You don't hear the Kubiak disciples rehashing those facts. They just like to paste a few sexy stats from Arian Foster, but fail to mention the average at best running game we had before that which was pretty inconsistent.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Ah yes, who could forget wonderful Wali Lundy the Dayne-Train and "the doc" Samkon Gado.
Maybe.
Other teams see the Sean McVays & Kyle Shanahans get to the SB in less time. They see the Frank Riechs & Mike Vrabels that do better in less time in the same division.
If there was a GM & O'Brien couldn't get past the divisional round again, maybe I'd give him some slack. But if he's calling all the shots... I don't know if I would have him as HC of my organization. Why would I expect things to work out better in my organization than the one he ran off all the opposing opinions?
If I'm Detroit, Miami, or Cleveland I'm looking for a guy who could get a Rams or 49ers to the Super Bowl tomorrow.
Texansballer74
The Marine
What numbers have I used in this thread?
Last yr was the 1st yr BOB was truly calling the shots