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O'Brien vs. Kubiak
- Thread starter 76Texan
- Start date
RGV82
Random guy
I would not agree. Improvement is the key. I agree his turnaround from a 2-14 season into a 9-7 was great, but in the 6 seasons he has been here, we have not won a divisional playoff game yet, and hit a 4-12 season right in the middle of his tenure. I agree that BOB keeps us "above average" but has shown no sign of continuous progression.
Neither has any other HC the Texans have had
He is not an above average offensive coach, but he gets the praise from long time NFL execs. He's a better HC than offensive mind
dream_team
Hall of Fame
You'd prefer to be the Browns? The only other comparable team age, start up status in the league
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
^^^^ Lol!
The guy that claims he uses facts???
O'Brien started out with a 2-14 team that had "no QB" and one of the "worst historical defenses" of all time the season prior.
Any idea or story that O'Brien walked into a very good team is total obnoxiousness to make a poor attempt at a false narrative spin.
No, but it helps put it into perspective
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
Do you remember how Case Keenum seemed to have played better under O'Brien when we Brough him back then what he did with Kubiak? I remember that being discussed a lot at the time. Based on some of the arguments people have spewed, that would mean that O'Brien was a much better OC with a more effective scheme and that would conclude this without the inspection of any other variables.
ATXtexanfan
Hall of Fame
What's the difference between developing and just putting a guy in a position to succeed?
You can teach a guy technique but it stills come down to putting him a position to succeed on gameday.
Pros are pros but gameplan and design are critical on gameday.
Asking a guy to do what he cant do is bad.
Having a guy do his thing is good.
Just tipsy and rambling.
Hell Richard Sherman is a great CB. He got ate up in superbowl on that deep ball. He got put in a bad position there. The league is now about matchups.
Kubiak was better at this game then OB. I wont say Kubiak is a better coach or developer of talent though.
I halfway wanna delete this but oh well. I havent had any notifications since superbowl
Carry on
You can teach a guy technique but it stills come down to putting him a position to succeed on gameday.
Pros are pros but gameplan and design are critical on gameday.
Asking a guy to do what he cant do is bad.
Having a guy do his thing is good.
Just tipsy and rambling.
Hell Richard Sherman is a great CB. He got ate up in superbowl on that deep ball. He got put in a bad position there. The league is now about matchups.
Kubiak was better at this game then OB. I wont say Kubiak is a better coach or developer of talent though.
I halfway wanna delete this but oh well. I havent had any notifications since superbowl
Carry on
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
@76Texan - I couldnt resist myself LOL .. its really THIS simple:
Kubiak inherited a "nucleus" of - his only pro bowler was the fastest man in the NFL Jerome Mathis woo hoo!! It was a special teamer HAHA .. however for grins and giggles I went down each roster and for Koobs the most notable players I could find were David Carr (#1 pick), Andre Johnson (future All Pro), Jabar Gafney (of Patriots fame LOL) Steve "not so skinny" McKinney (above average I guess), Seth Payne?, Chester Pitts (above average), Dunta Robinson (pro bowl level), Gary Walker (first Texan pro bowler, but past his prime), Kailee Wong?? thats it - that was what Kubiak inherited. LOL. Best QB Kubiak ever had was Matt Schaub and until he imploded was always a top ten stats QB in the league under Kubiak. Koobs never had a blue chipper here.
Obrien?
Duane Brown and JJ Watt were All Pros, Andre Johnson was in the twilight of a possible HOF career (and subsequently eradicated by OBrien), his roster included guys like AJ Bouye (future All Pro), Brian Cushing (pro bowler), Owen Daniels (pro bowler), DeAndre Hopkins (future All Pro), Kareem Jackson (pro bowler) JJO (pro bowler), Shane Lechler (HOF?), Ben Johnson, Wade Smith, Antonio Smith (all above average?), Earl Mitchell, Arian Foster was on that roster and gave OBrien 1200 yards the next year. Bill Obrien never developed a QB. It wasnt until Deshaun Watson was "forced upon him" that he finally was able to look competent in the passing game, and in the victory column.
Pretty obvious example of REBUILD vs RETOOL.
Kubiak inherited a "nucleus" of - his only pro bowler was the fastest man in the NFL Jerome Mathis woo hoo!! It was a special teamer HAHA .. however for grins and giggles I went down each roster and for Koobs the most notable players I could find were David Carr (#1 pick), Andre Johnson (future All Pro), Jabar Gafney (of Patriots fame LOL) Steve "not so skinny" McKinney (above average I guess), Seth Payne?, Chester Pitts (above average), Dunta Robinson (pro bowl level), Gary Walker (first Texan pro bowler, but past his prime), Kailee Wong?? thats it - that was what Kubiak inherited. LOL. Best QB Kubiak ever had was Matt Schaub and until he imploded was always a top ten stats QB in the league under Kubiak. Koobs never had a blue chipper here.
Obrien?
Duane Brown and JJ Watt were All Pros, Andre Johnson was in the twilight of a possible HOF career (and subsequently eradicated by OBrien), his roster included guys like AJ Bouye (future All Pro), Brian Cushing (pro bowler), Owen Daniels (pro bowler), DeAndre Hopkins (future All Pro), Kareem Jackson (pro bowler) JJO (pro bowler), Shane Lechler (HOF?), Ben Johnson, Wade Smith, Antonio Smith (all above average?), Earl Mitchell, Arian Foster was on that roster and gave OBrien 1200 yards the next year. Bill Obrien never developed a QB. It wasnt until Deshaun Watson was "forced upon him" that he finally was able to look competent in the passing game, and in the victory column.
Pretty obvious example of REBUILD vs RETOOL.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
What player on the Texans is being asked to do what they can't do?
There's a difference between being asked to do what you can't do, vs. being asked to do what you need to be able to do. Example: none of our TE's block all that well. But are you going to augment your offense completely around that fact....or take your best TE in Fells off the field based on that? Of course not. he & the other TE's have to be put in positions to block.......at times. Likewise, Duke is best utilized in the pass game.........but even though he's not at his best as a traditional RB you still have to hand him the ball & run him between the guards & tackles at times b/c you know....HE'S A RUNNINGBACK!
The skill of a player only goes so far
the gameplan & design only goes so far
The coaching up only goes so far
At some point all of that has to come together THRU THE PLAYER to win at the highest level in this league. And after watching Mahomes and the Chiefs this year in the playoffs, there's no way anyone can say that their run was all Reid's scheme, play design & coaching b/c i'm damn sure it wasn't in his plans to have his team go down by double digits in 3 consecutive playoffs games before they started playing. Time and time again it came down to Mahomes or some other player making a big play where there seemingly wasn't 1 "schemed" or "designed" by the coaching staff for them to make.
The Texans just need more guys other than DW4 to make plays...so that he doesn't feel like it always has to be him.
@76Texan - I couldnt resist myself LOL .. its really THIS simple:
Kubiak inherited a "nucleus" of - his only pro bowler was the fastest man in the NFL Jerome Mathis woo hoo!! It was a special teamer HAHA .. however for grins and giggles I went down each roster and for Koobs the most notable players I could find were David Carr (#1 pick), Andre Johnson (future All Pro), Jabar Gafney (of Patriots fame LOL) Steve "not so skinny" McKinney (above average I guess), Seth Payne?, Chester Pitts (above average), Dunta Robinson (pro bowl level), Gary Walker (first Texan pro bowler, but past his prime), Kailee Wong?? thats it - that was what Kubiak inherited. LOL. Best QB Kubiak ever had was Matt Schaub and until he imploded was always a top ten stats QB in the league under Kubiak. Koobs never had a blue chipper here.
Obrien?
Duane Brown and JJ Watt were All Pros, Andre Johnson was in the twilight of a possible HOF career (and subsequently eradicated by OBrien), his roster included guys like AJ Bouye (future All Pro), Brian Cushing (pro bowler), Owen Daniels (pro bowler), DeAndre Hopkins (future All Pro), Kareem Jackson (pro bowler) JJO (pro bowler), Shane Lechler (HOF?), Ben Johnson, Wade Smith, Antonio Smith (all above average?), Earl Mitchell, Arian Foster was on that roster and gave OBrien 1200 yards the next year. Bill Obrien never developed a QB. It wasnt until Deshaun Watson was "forced upon him" that he finally was able to look competent in the passing game, and in the victory column.
Pretty obvious example of REBUILD vs RETOOL.
This should tell you what a bad job RS/Kubiak did that yr and that they both should've been fired. But it wont.
2-14is 2-14 no matter how you slice it.
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
injuries during 2013 2-14 season:
16 Alan Bonner WR (IR) 34 A. J. Bouye CB (IR) 56 Brian Cushing ILB (IR) 81 Owen Daniels TE (IR-DFR) 23 Arian Foster RB (IR) -- Evan Frierson ILB (IR) 88 Garrett Graham TE (IR) 24 Johnathan Joseph CB (IR) 39 Deji Karim RB (IR) 17 Alec Lemon WR (IR) 38 Danieal Manning SS (IR)77 David Quessenberry T (IR) 47 Brad Smelley TE (IR) 44 Ben Tate RB (IR) 73 Brennan Williams T (IR) 54 Trevardo Williams OLB (IR)
Injuries 2017 2-14 season:
74 Chris Clark T (IR) 95 Christian Covington DE (IR) 12 Bruce Ellington WR (IR) 34 Tyler Ervin RB (IR) 87 C. J. Fiedorowicz TE (IR) 27 D'Onta Foreman RB (IR) 69 Matthew Godin DE (IR) 16 Deanté Gray WR (IR) 84 Ryan Griffin TE (IR) 50 Ben Heeney ILB (IR) 66 Nick Martin C (IR) 59 Whitney Mercilus OLB (IR) 43 Corey Moore FS (IR) 72 Derek Newton OT (PUP) 85 MyCole Pruitt TE (IR) 98 D. J. Reader DE (IR) 3 Tom Savage QB (IR) 57 Brennan Scarlett OLB (IR) 4 Deshaun Watson QB (IR) 99 J. J. Watt DE (IR)
For OBrien it was the "injury bug", but for Kubiak it was just bad coaching LMAOOO.
16 Alan Bonner WR (IR) 34 A. J. Bouye CB (IR) 56 Brian Cushing ILB (IR) 81 Owen Daniels TE (IR-DFR) 23 Arian Foster RB (IR) -- Evan Frierson ILB (IR) 88 Garrett Graham TE (IR) 24 Johnathan Joseph CB (IR) 39 Deji Karim RB (IR) 17 Alec Lemon WR (IR) 38 Danieal Manning SS (IR)77 David Quessenberry T (IR) 47 Brad Smelley TE (IR) 44 Ben Tate RB (IR) 73 Brennan Williams T (IR) 54 Trevardo Williams OLB (IR)
Injuries 2017 2-14 season:
74 Chris Clark T (IR) 95 Christian Covington DE (IR) 12 Bruce Ellington WR (IR) 34 Tyler Ervin RB (IR) 87 C. J. Fiedorowicz TE (IR) 27 D'Onta Foreman RB (IR) 69 Matthew Godin DE (IR) 16 Deanté Gray WR (IR) 84 Ryan Griffin TE (IR) 50 Ben Heeney ILB (IR) 66 Nick Martin C (IR) 59 Whitney Mercilus OLB (IR) 43 Corey Moore FS (IR) 72 Derek Newton OT (PUP) 85 MyCole Pruitt TE (IR) 98 D. J. Reader DE (IR) 3 Tom Savage QB (IR) 57 Brennan Scarlett OLB (IR) 4 Deshaun Watson QB (IR) 99 J. J. Watt DE (IR)
For OBrien it was the "injury bug", but for Kubiak it was just bad coaching LMAOOO.
I didn't realize they went 2-14 in 2017?
Wasn't that the yr RS traded for a QB you cant win a championship with and gave away a 2nd rd pick to get rid of Os.
Pure genius in the 2017 offseason lead to the disastrous 2017 season? One that they haven't overcome to this day and likely BOB wont be able to overcome.
Wasn't that the yr RS traded for a QB you cant win a championship with and gave away a 2nd rd pick to get rid of Os.
Pure genius in the 2017 offseason lead to the disastrous 2017 season? One that they haven't overcome to this day and likely BOB wont be able to overcome.
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Hometown boy Kubiak was axed after too many years of mediocrity and failure, and the Yankee OBrien gets a lifetime contract of King and Emperor after doing the same thing! LOL
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
theCATALYST
Football Messiah
Not that we should care, but Ed Reed didn't like Kubiak's "old school mentality" or how his coaching staff talked to players.
www.chron.com
Ed Reed says Texans 'lied' to him in his short Houston stint
In a 50-minute interview with Master Tesfatsion on an episode of Bleacher Report’s...
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
no it wouldn’t...Kubiak got to pick his own GM, went through 3 defensive coordinators and had 9 years to get it done.
BoB is just now entering that territory.
That can't be right.
He was on the coaching staff where Eli Manning and the Giants won it.
2007 New England Patriots season - Wikipedia
en.m.wikipedia.org
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
He was on the coaching staff where Eli Manning and the Giants won it.
2007 New England Patriots season - Wikipedia
That explains it .. Bill OBrien is a Jonah.
2-4?
And in his 6th year, O'Brien had to use future draft picks to stay relevant... oh wait, he got his b.u.t.t. kicked by Andy Reid.@76Texan - I couldnt resist myself LOL .. its really THIS simple:
Kubiak inherited a "nucleus" of - his only pro bowler was the fastest man in the NFL Jerome Mathis woo hoo!! It was a special teamer HAHA .. however for grins and giggles I went down each roster and for Koobs the most notable players I could find were David Carr (#1 pick), Andre Johnson (future All Pro), Jabar Gafney (of Patriots fame LOL) Steve "not so skinny" McKinney (above average I guess), Seth Payne?, Chester Pitts (above average), Dunta Robinson (pro bowl level), Gary Walker (first Texan pro bowler, but past his prime), Kailee Wong?? thats it - that was what Kubiak inherited. LOL. Best QB Kubiak ever had was Matt Schaub and until he imploded was always a top ten stats QB in the league under Kubiak. Koobs never had a blue chipper here.
Obrien?
Duane Brown and JJ Watt were All Pros, Andre Johnson was in the twilight of a possible HOF career (and subsequently eradicated by OBrien), his roster included guys like AJ Bouye (future All Pro), Brian Cushing (pro bowler), Owen Daniels (pro bowler), DeAndre Hopkins (future All Pro), Kareem Jackson (pro bowler) JJO (pro bowler), Shane Lechler (HOF?), Ben Johnson, Wade Smith, Antonio Smith (all above average?), Earl Mitchell, Arian Foster was on that roster and gave OBrien 1200 yards the next year. Bill Obrien never developed a QB. It wasnt until Deshaun Watson was "forced upon him" that he finally was able to look competent in the passing game, and in the victory column.
Pretty obvious example of REBUILD vs RETOOL.
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
edit: wait .. isnt it Deshaun Watsons fault that the team sucks? Im not sure where we're at this week.
Last edited:
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
The main people whining all over this thread are all Aggies.
Two of them never wanted O'Brien ever to succeed.
I didn't know until recently that K-Dog was an Aggie.
Yr 2 without the same guy that got Kubiak fired.
Now that we had settled on Kubiak's rebuilding vs. OB's retooling, we can move on to how the Texans had fared on the playing field during the first 5 years of each HC's tenure.@76Texan - I couldnt resist myself LOL .. its really THIS simple:
Kubiak inherited a "nucleus" of - his only pro bowler was the fastest man in the NFL Jerome Mathis woo hoo!! It was a special teamer HAHA .. however for grins and giggles I went down each roster and for Koobs the most notable players I could find were David Carr (#1 pick), Andre Johnson (future All Pro), Jabar Gafney (of Patriots fame LOL) Steve "not so skinny" McKinney (above average I guess), Seth Payne?, Chester Pitts (above average), Dunta Robinson (pro bowl level), Gary Walker (first Texan pro bowler, but past his prime), Kailee Wong?? thats it - that was what Kubiak inherited. LOL. Best QB Kubiak ever had was Matt Schaub and until he imploded was always a top ten stats QB in the league under Kubiak. Koobs never had a blue chipper here.
Obrien?
Duane Brown and JJ Watt were All Pros, Andre Johnson was in the twilight of a possible HOF career (and subsequently eradicated by OBrien), his roster included guys like AJ Bouye (future All Pro), Brian Cushing (pro bowler), Owen Daniels (pro bowler), DeAndre Hopkins (future All Pro), Kareem Jackson (pro bowler) JJO (pro bowler), Shane Lechler (HOF?), Ben Johnson, Wade Smith, Antonio Smith (all above average?), Earl Mitchell, Arian Foster was on that roster and gave OBrien 1200 yards the next year. Bill Obrien never developed a QB. It wasnt until Deshaun Watson was "forced upon him" that he finally was able to look competent in the passing game, and in the victory column.
Pretty obvious example of REBUILD vs RETOOL.
(I could include the 6th year, but that would give OB the advantage of having guys like Tunsil and Stills - whom OB had used future draft picks on.)
Here are the AFC South's non-conference records, besides the Texans':
2006: Colts 9-1, Jags 6-4, Titans 4-6, Total 19-11
2007: Colts 8-2, Jags 9-1, Titans 6-4, Total 23-7
2008: Colts 8-2, Jags 3-7, Titans 9-1, Total 20-10
2009: Colts 8-2, Jags 4-6, Titans 6-4, Total 18-12
2010: Colts 6-4, Jags 5-5, Titans 4-6, Total 15-15
Combined records: 95-55
......
Guess what those numbers were under OB?
2014: Colts 5-5, Jags 2-8, Titans 1-9, Total 8-22
2015: Colts 4-6, Jags 3-7, Titans 2-8, Total 9-21
2016: Colts 5-5, Jags 1-9, Titans 7-3, Total 13-17
2017: Colts 2-8, Jags 6-4, Titans 4-6, Total 12-18
2018: Colts 6-4, Jags 4-6, Titans 6-4, Total 16-14
Combined records: 58-92
....
Under Kubiak, the Texans played against much better opponents.
O'Brien was just in a lucky situation.
Texansballer74
The Marine
What does being an Aggie fan have to do with anything? You must be a Longhorns fan.
We've settled on 2-14, with the same incompetent GM running the show for both regimes.
Nothing more or less.
Texansballer74
The Marine
The GM was not the reason why we went 2-14 dude.
We're never going to agree.
Would you say lack of QB planning/Talent/Depth contributed to 2-14? That falls directly on the GM. But hey, atleast we dont have to worry about that type of incompetence anymore.
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Mark Twain famously said the words: “lies, damned lies and statistics” to demonstrate the inherent weakness in over utilizing statistics to try to prove or disprove a thesis.
Yeah, but steelb like to use numbers.
Every FA QB that were brought in had played in an EP system before; you can't tell me it was Rick Smith.
And Savage over Keenum is a joke.
It was OB who said Keenum is nothing more than a third stringer; it was OB that cut Keenum.
And you can't tell me Keenum can't be a stop-gap QB since he had given OB two wins despite limited knowledge/experience in the system.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Man we were predicted to go to the Super Bowl that year. The year before we won 12 games. Nobody and I mean nobody seen us dropping off like that.
Y'all are putting words in my mouth. 
I never said I wanted Kubiak to stay here. It was time for him to move on.
That said, y'all are whack if you believe O'Brien is even close to the OC / HC that Kubiak was.
It's a results-driven industry and Kubiak's career resume speaks for itself. Four rings at three levels of coaching.
Freakin' O'Brien homers continue to crack me up with their pretzel logic.
I never said I wanted Kubiak to stay here. It was time for him to move on.
That said, y'all are whack if you believe O'Brien is even close to the OC / HC that Kubiak was.
It's a results-driven industry and Kubiak's career resume speaks for itself. Four rings at three levels of coaching.
Freakin' O'Brien homers continue to crack me up with their pretzel logic.
Who predicted that?
After blowing HOF by losing 3 of their last 4 to end the previous season. I sure didn't see them as a SB contender. In fact not many around here did.
Y'all are putting words in my mouth.
I never said I wanted Kubiak to stay here. It was time for him to move on.
That said, y'all are whack if you believe O'Brien is even close to the OC / HC that Kubiak was.
It's a results-driven industry and Kubiak's career resume speaks for itself. Four rings at three levels of coaching.
Freakin' O'Brien homers continue to crack me up with their pretzel logic.
They're both mediocre HC's. Look at their records.