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O'Brien vs. Kubiak

Mr teX said:
Lol, he had those multiple rings at various stops of coaching when he arrived here too & how'd that work out for the Texans? There are also multiple HoF players on record whom said they couldn't stand their HoF coaches. Guess b/c none of those guys had flowery articles written about them by their former players we should read into it that that those guys weren't really that good of a coach right?

DB, I love you dude, but that's just terrible rationale & the only people here really slicing & dicing are you guys for Kubiak. He & his offense had about as much to do with winning that SB as say any number of the guys who played ST that year. For all the bragging 76 is trying to point out about how "great" his scheme was here & in Denver, It, nor his great coaching never led to anything here. I also already pointed out how terrible his offense was that season in Denver & throughout the playoffs upthread. They barely scored 30 TDs on offense the entire year. To put that into perspective, BoB & his sporadic offense was able to muster up more than that with the Brian Hoyerable and Ryan Toilett in 2015.

There's no real fundamental distinction between BoB or Kubiak's tenure here except for folks looking to try to make one for reasons other than football.

If Wade's defense isn't shutting some of the best offenses in the NFL down, Kubiak Denver tenure would've wound up the same way his tenure here did...mediocore & uninspiring.
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Literally the only success that Kubiak has ever had at HC was off the shoulders of Wade's defense. I wish it wasn't true, but it simply is.
 
Mr teX said:
Lol, he had those multiple rings at various stops of coaching when he arrived here too & how'd that work out for the Texans? There are also multiple HoF players on record whom said they couldn't stand their HoF coaches. Guess b/c none of those guys had flowery articles written about them by their former players we should read into it that that those guys weren't really that good of a coach right?

DB, I love you dude, but that's just terrible rationale & the only people here really slicing & dicing are you guys for Kubiak. He & his offense had about as much to do with winning that SB as say any number of the guys who played ST that year. For all the bragging 76 is trying to point out about how "great" his scheme was here & in Denver, It, nor his great coaching never led to anything here. I also already pointed out how terrible his offense was that season in Denver & throughout the playoffs upthread. They barely scored 30 TDs on offense the entire year. To put that into perspective, BoB & his sporadic offense was able to muster up more than that with the Brian Hoyerable and Ryan Toilett in 2015.

There's no real fundamental distinction between BoB or Kubiak's tenure here except for folks looking to try to make one for reasons other than football.

If Wade's defense isn't shutting some of the best offenses in the NFL down, Kubiak Denver tenure would've wound up the same way his tenure here did...mediocore & uninspiring.
Click to expand...
With that same rational, it was my intention to start from the beginning of each HC here in Houston.

I first mentioned the RB position, and nobody in the OB camp has yet to counter it.

Should I score 1-0 for Kubiak yet?
I've been waiting and waiting.
I haven't heard any counter argument yet.

Just like the KJax' argument a long time ago, I can be very patient.

Our good friend, CNND, can call it pathology however he likes; he's yet to bring a counter argument, he a medicine/scientist man and all.

And just like the KJax's old thread, I'm not going anywhere.
 
Mr teX said:
Lol, he had those multiple rings at various stops of coaching when he arrived here too & how'd that work out for the Texans? There are also multiple HoF players on record whom said they couldn't stand their HoF coaches. Guess b/c none of those guys had flowery articles written about them by their former players we should read into it that that those guys weren't really that good of a coach right?

DB, I love you dude, but that's just terrible rationale & the only people here really slicing & dicing are you guys for Kubiak. He & his offense had about as much to do with winning that SB as say any number of the guys who played ST that year. For all the bragging 76 is trying to point out about how "great" his scheme was here & in Denver, It, nor his great coaching never led to anything here. I also already pointed out how terrible his offense was that season in Denver & throughout the playoffs upthread. They barely scored 30 TDs on offense the entire year. To put that into perspective, BoB & his sporadic offense was able to muster up more than that with the Brian Hoyerable and Ryan Toilett in 2015.

There's no real fundamental distinction between BoB or Kubiak's tenure here except for folks looking to try to make one for reasons other than football.

If Wade's defense isn't shutting some of the best offenses in the NFL down, Kubiak Denver tenure would've wound up the same way his tenure here did...mediocore & uninspiring.
Click to expand...
Besides, you certainly never looked at how the defense had been covering for O'Brien - again, the foundation was built from the Kubiak's day, when he gave more draft picks and free agents signing to the defense, which O'Brien inherited.
 
Double Barrel said:
Show us any HoF player that has something like this to say about O'Brien:

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl...iak-tribute-letter/1537ispdjfamd1670n6w3jlva7

If winning a SB with a new coach is so easy and simple, why are the Texans so keen to keep O'Brien here? :um:

Maybe because Kubiak had a lot more to do with winning the Broncos SB than some would care to admit.

Dude had multiple rings at three levels of pro coaching. Y'all can slice and dice it all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that he is heads above O'Brien as both an OC and HC.
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If you put a team around Kubiak, I've got no questions about his ability to lead men

He's got outstanding leadership skills.
 
But as promised, we'll go over point by point.

Do you know the contracr that Kubiak was stucked with at the QB position with Carr?

And how the Texans were able to trade Schaub for a 6th round pick?
He never counted in the cap space for O'Brien to build a team the way he wanted to?

Were O'Brien's hands tied?

No.
He even refused a cheap back-up in Keenum and went out to draft Savage.
And let him stay on the roster for the longest time.
 
theCATALYST said:
:choke:
Low are the hopes of the Texans fan base if our off-season is spent debating between two very mediocre head coaches.
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Ain't so.
By the end of the day, I intend to bring all the facts to support that Kubiak was a better HC with the Texans alone.

Do you have any counter-argument(s)?

If so, bring it please.
 
76Texan said:
Ain't so.
By the end of the day, I intend to bring all the facts to support that Kubiak was a better HC with the Texans alone.

Do you have any counter-argument(s)?

If so, bring it please.
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They both have their strengths and weaknesses for sure. In my mind Kubiak was a failure in Houston and O'Brien is on the fast track to the same destination. Their accolades or lack of anywhere else simply just don't matter to me much.

With that said, I just re-read the thread title and realize that I am out of bounds....so I will exit this topic now.

Carry on with the debate, and good luck to you.
 
In summary, OB started with a much better situation regarding the QB and RB situation..

If you have a counter-argument, please bring it.
 
theCATALYST said:
They both have their strengths and weaknesses for sure. In my mind Kubiak was a failure in Houston and O'Brien is on the fast track to the same destination. Their accolades or lack of anywhere else simply just don't matter to me much.

With that said, I just re-read the thread title and realize that I am out of bounds....so I will exit this topic now.

Carry on with the debate, and good luck to you.
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Thank you
 
Which brings to the case.
When one wants certain kind of "justice", one needs to be insistent and stay on the task.

There's no need for side-tracking.

Please bring any counter-argument here.

My proposition is that Kubiak started out from a much-worse positon.
And he left with a good foundation for the next coach to build on.
 
Double Barrel said:
Show us any HoF player that has something like this to say about O'Brien:

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl...iak-tribute-letter/1537ispdjfamd1670n6w3jlva7

If winning a SB with a new coach is so easy and simple, why are the Texans so keen to keep O'Brien here? :um:

Maybe because Kubiak had a lot more to do with winning the Broncos SB than some would care to admit.

Dude had multiple rings at three levels of pro coaching. Y'all can slice and dice it all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that he is heads above O'Brien as both an OC and HC.
Click to expand...

John Fox had a better team
 
Mr teX said:
Lol, he had those multiple rings at various stops of coaching when he arrived here too & how'd that work out for the Texans? There are also multiple HoF players on record whom said they couldn't stand their HoF coaches. Guess b/c none of those guys had flowery articles written about them by their former players we should read into it that that those guys weren't really that good of a coach right?

DB, I love you dude, but that's just terrible rationale & the only people here really slicing & dicing are you guys for Kubiak. He & his offense had about as much to do with winning that SB as say any number of the guys who played ST that year. For all the bragging 76 is trying to point out about how "great" his scheme was here & in Denver, It, nor his great coaching never led to anything here. I also already pointed out how terrible his offense was that season in Denver & throughout the playoffs upthread. They barely scored 30 TDs on offense the entire year. To put that into perspective, BoB & his sporadic offense was able to muster up more than that with the Brian Hoyerable and Ryan Toilett in 2015.

There's no real fundamental distinction between BoB or Kubiak's tenure here except for folks looking to try to make one for reasons other than football.

If Wade's defense isn't shutting some of the best offenses in the NFL down, Kubiak Denver tenure would've wound up the same way his tenure here did...mediocore & uninspiring.
Click to expand...

Good point.

But, O'Brien needs more talent.

We don't consider the talent Kubiak had to work with, it was all Wade & the defense.

Give Kubiak the talent we've given O'Brien & what?

I mean he beat a good New England team with Osweiler. I'm sorry, that was Wade.... again
 
santo said:
John Fox had the better Manning as well. By the time Kubes took over Manning was on his last leg. I’m just upset that we couldn’t get Manning here when Wade and Kubiak were still here.
Click to expand...
What TK means is Fox had better talents on the team
 
76Texan said:
But as promised, we'll go over point by point.

Do you know the contracr that Kubiak was stucked with at the QB position with Carr?

And how the Texans were able to trade Schaub for a 6th round pick?
He never counted in the cap space for O'Brien to build a team the way he wanted to?

Were O'Brien's hands tied?

No.
He even refused a cheap back-up in Keenum and went out to draft Savage.
And let him stay on the roster for the longest time.
Click to expand...

RS?
 
76Texan said:
You're not even a psychologist.
Pardon me.
Are you even qualified to help a man in my state of being?
And if you're not, then what?
Click to expand...

Really, with what he does you post this?

LMAO

Reality check may be in order?
 
santo said:
John Fox had the better Manning as well. By the time Kubes took over Manning was on his last leg. I’m just upset that we couldn’t get Manning here when Wade and Kubiak were still here.
Click to expand...

A poster on this MB said RS wouldn't sign off on creating the cap space to get Manning here. Manning wanted to play for Kubiak in Houston.
 
thunderkyss said:
Good point.

But, O'Brien needs more talent.

We don't consider the talent Kubiak had to work with, it was all Wade & the defense.

Give Kubiak the talent we've given O'Brien & what?

I mean he beat a good New England team with Osweiler. I'm sorry, that was Wade.... again
Click to expand...

When did Os ever beat the pats when he was with the Texans.
 
76Texan said:
Which brings to the case.
When one wants certain kind of "justice", one needs to be insistent and stay on the task.

There's no need for side-tracking.

Please bring any counter-argument here.

My proposition is that Kubiak started out from a much-worse positon.
And he left with a good foundation for the next coach to build on.
Click to expand...

2-14?
 
76Texan said:
I could very well say the same thing about you.
That you're obsesssive in defending something that you don't have facts to do so.
Click to expand...

Man somebody has a bad case of Kubiak syndrome.

I cant believe you can get so irrational over 2 avg HC's.
 
76Texan said:
Ain't so.
By the end of the day, I intend to bring all the facts to support that Kubiak was a better HC with the Texans alone.

Do you have any counter-argument(s)?

If so, bring it please.
Click to expand...

Sorry I just don’t have any f***s to give about this stupid “debate”. Not sure what you hope to prove or why you think anybody cares but more power to you.
 
Kubiak gets fired from the Texans. Gets hired by another team, wins SB. "Resigns" from that team. Gets hired by another team as a "consultant". Now will be that teams OC. Still in the league.

O'Brien wins 4 AFCS titles in 5 years. Wins 2 playoff games. Gets pretty much complete control of team, HC, OC, GM, etc. If O'Brien were to get fired would GM's be blowing up his cell phone to coach their team? I think OB would have a prolonged "vacation" from the league if he were to "lose" this job he has now. Just my opinion.
 
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austins23 said:
Kubiak gets fired from the Texans. Gets hired by another team, wins SB. "Resigns" from that team. Gets hired by another team as a "consultant". Now will be that teams OC. Still in the league.

O'Brien wins 4 AFCS titles in 5 years. Wins 2 playoff games. Gets pretty much complete control of team, HC, OC, GM, etc. If O'Brien were to get fired would GM's be blowing up his cell phone to coach their team? I think OB would have a prolonged "vacation" from the league if he were to "lose" this job he has now. Just my opinion.
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My opinion is this. If O'Brien doesn't just completely run this team into the dirt, I can see another owner bringing him in as a GM or assistant, tasking him to find a HC and build a team. I don't think a GM would hire him to be a HC due in part to not wanting the headache of having a coach who thinks they can do everyone's job. Especially one who seems to have the ability to convince ownership that he in fact can do everyone's job.
 
theCATALYST said:
My opinion is this. If O'Brien doesn't just completely run this team into the dirt, I can see another owner bringing him in as a GM or assistant, tasking him to find a HC and build a team. I don't think a GM would hire him to be a HC due in part to not wanting the headache of having a coach who thinks they can do everyone's job. Especially one who seems to have the ability to convince ownership that he in fact can do everyone's job.
Click to expand...

I think at this point if he were to lose his job (unless there was a scandal) he would be snapped up as HC quick if there were openings. But no team is going to bring him in as GM... maybe in a few years if he succeeds
 
IMO there is no comparison. These types of debates are for fans/enthusiasts/media only. While I may think this thread is silly its still message board worthy since that's what we are all here to do: discuss this team whether past, present or future. Both had different variables to work within and truly the only fact for a head coach is their W-L record. Bottom line while with the Texans Kubiak in 6 years (49-51) and O'Brien in 6 years (54-48) both mediocre.
 
JB said:
I think at this point if he were to lose his job (unless there was a scandal) he would be snapped up as HC quick if there were openings. But no team is going to bring him in as GM... maybe in a few years if he succeeds
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Ob is perpetual 9-7 and thus better then most teams get. He'd be scooped up fast on the open market, but only successful with astronomical performances from QBs and coordinators.

He still cant game plan. He still cant devise a legitimate offense. He still cant manage timeouts. He still cant manage challenges.

He's the upper crust of mediocre.
 
JB said:
We see that, no doubt. But outside of this board, the nfl enviroment sees him as a HC that took a 2-13 team to the division championship 4 of 6 years and the playoffs 5 of 6. That's awesome from the outside looking in.
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And from the inside looking out his shortcomings are glaring.

Management shouldn't be giving him more authority, they should be forcing a gm and OC, and ol with a new power structure.
 
powda said:
And from the inside looking out his shortcomings are glaring.

Management shouldn't be giving him more authority, they should be forcing a gm and OC, and ol with a new power structure.
Click to expand...

From here looking out, absolutely
 
thunderkyss said:
Of course he is. Add Watson for another two or three wins & we've got an 11/12 win team.

So getting to the playoffs shouldn't be the bar (not saying that you're saying that). But what happens in the playoffs.

Even if we're the 2nd best team in this division we should still get in the playoffs.
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OB is 9-7 and anything more is based on Watson heroics.

We need a better defense. We need a better run game.

I'm sick of the "versatile offense" shenanigans. Drop some nuts and have an identity. Start with a power run game.
 
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