austins23
Hall of Fame
You say potato I say.... you know how the saying goes. Everyone is gonna spin that season to how they wanna see it.
They were 2-14.
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O'Brien vs. Kubiak
- Thread starter 76Texan
- Start date
They were 2-14.
It was a rough year; the injury list was lengthy.
Guys were playing hurt .
Guys were put on IR included many of the draft picks that were supposed to be depth.
RGV82
Random guy
Yes, I agree. You were the one who originally said we should have went 0-16. I was simply pointing out that the WINS you said should have been LOSSES - were the same that many more of our losses, could have been wins.
I don't think there's a need to spin.
Lots of things did go wrong that year.
The offense stil ranked 11th in yard gained (better than any year under OB).
The D was ranked 7th in yards allowed.
They just couldn's score enough, nor make the stops when needed.
They missed too many FG.
They still scored more TDs (26) than the 2016 team (23) on offense, just fewer FGs (26 vs 35).
Maybe halfway true.
This thread is about O'Brien being worse than mediocre.
What data?
True, but all those games were against play-off teams.
It wasn't like they were beaten by the lowly Broncos this season.
After the QB and RB positions come the receiver’s.
Kubiak inherited a great no. 1 receiver in AJ, who tallied 66, 79, and 63 catches the previous 3 years.
But he lost both the no. 2 (Gaffney) and no. 3 (Bradford) as UFAs.
Gaffney was inconsistent, allowing the veteran Bradford to see the field.
He (Gaffney) was out of football in 2006 while Bradford played sparingly with Detroit in his last year in the league.
O’Brien inherited:
AJ who still had one good year left as the no. 1, and at least another year as a no. 2 receiver.
(But O’Brien told AJ he would not start in 2015, prompting the demand for a trade/release.)
He also inherited a first-rounder star-on-the-rise in Hopkins, ready to replace AJ, still on a cheap rookie contract.
Here, O’Brien also got the advantage to start out with.
Kubiak built a perennial top 10 OL from nothing.
O'Brien took a top 10 OL and turned it into a dumpster fire even after spending like 10 first rounders on it
For TE, the only one that Kubiak inherited was soon-to-be 34-yr-old Mark Bruener, a blocker.
And nobody else.
O’Brien decided to move on from OD, who went on to play for the Ravens (15 games, 48 catches, 4 TDs) and Broncos (16 games, 46 catches, 3 TDs).
O’Brien also inherited Graham and Griffin. These two had combined for 68 catches and 6TDs in 2013 (besides OD’s 24/3). The TE group as a whole, had tallied 92 catches and 9 TDs.
But O’Brien loved him some Fiedo, and gave him 8 starts in 15 games (4 catches for 28 yards, 1 TD) in 2014.
The TE group combined for 32 catches and 3 TDs.
And nobody else.
O’Brien decided to move on from OD, who went on to play for the Ravens (15 games, 48 catches, 4 TDs) and Broncos (16 games, 46 catches, 3 TDs).
O’Brien also inherited Graham and Griffin. These two had combined for 68 catches and 6TDs in 2013 (besides OD’s 24/3). The TE group as a whole, had tallied 92 catches and 9 TDs.
But O’Brien loved him some Fiedo, and gave him 8 starts in 15 games (4 catches for 28 yards, 1 TD) in 2014.
The TE group combined for 32 catches and 3 TDs.
Only if you just look at WL record.
But, you said you don't care for numbers alone.
So what gives?
And how do you think the Texans would have fared without trading away future picks?
I'd say a losing record.
austins23
Hall of Fame
I’ll agree with you a little bit there. The Vikings were the Texans that year. 9-7, just good enough to get in. That game was deflating. They embarrassed the Texans at home.
Texans' Foster leaves game with illness
While the Houston Texans are headed for the playoffs, they have lost running back Arian Foster, possibly for the rest of the day, due to an illness.
www.sbnation.com
Foster had to see a cardiologist due to an irregular heartbeat.
10 rushes for 15 yards wasn't going to help the cause.
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Keenum was already a stop-gap QB in 2013.
Here are some number for you.
Case Keenum 2013 stats
137-253 1,760 yards, 9 TDs 6 INTs, 14 rushes, 72 yards, 1 TD
He played roughly 7 full games, so
Case Keenum 2013 prorated stats
313-578 4,022 yards, 20 TDs 13 INTs, 32 rushes, 164 yards, 2 TDs
Or at least 8 games x 2
274-506 (16th in attempts), 3,520 yds 18 TDs 12 Ints, 32-164 yards, 2 TDs
.....................................................
Alex Smith
308-598, 3,313 yds, 23 TDs, 8 Ints
Carlson Palmer
362-572, 4,274 yds, 24TDs, 22 Ints,
Joe Flacco
362-614, 3,912 yds, 19 TDs, 22 Ints
Eli Manning
317-551, 3,818 yds, 18 TDs, 27 Ints,
Chad Henne
305-503, 3,241 yds, 13TDs, 14 Ints,
Ryan Tannehill
355-588, 3,913 yds, 24 TDs, 17 Ints
......................................................
Keenum's Opponents:
Chiefs 5th points allowed,
Colts 9th
Cards 7th
OAK 29th
JAX 28th
NE 10th
JAX 28th
Colts 9th
That's 5 games against top 10 scoring defenses.
DW4 played against 4 all year in 2019.
And that was a down year for the Oline in pass protection (27th) and penalties (27th)
2013 Offensive Line Rankings
In this look back at the offensive line units in 2013, Khaled Elsayed sets them in order, ranking all 32 and naming the studs and duds from each.
www.pff.com
And the running game took a hit when Foster got injured before the halfway mark of the season and Tate playing on all those broken ribs of his.
At one point, none of the TEs were fully healthy either.
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You don't like the players they traded for? They were backed into a corner due to years of incompetence and neglect in the Tunsil trade and wisely paid the price for a very good young LT that should only get better.
Conley is likely better than any CB they could have drafted in the 3rd Rd.
I don't really care for the Duke trade, but I understand why it was made.
The Hyde/Rankin trade was a good trade.
I can't see what your problem is, other than you don't like change and the Texans have changed the way they are going about acquiring talent.
.
Talent is talent and I don't care how they acquire it. Apparently you do. Funny thing is Conley and Duke have multiple yrs left on their contracts and that's still not good enough for you.
Add in the fact that they will have a pick in every Rd but the 1st and it makes me think you are just overly critical of BOB the GM.
Keenum was already a stop-gap QB in 2013.
Here are some number for you.
Case Keenum 2013 stats
137-253 1,760 yards, 9 TDs 6 INTs, 14 rushes, 72 yards, 1 TD
He played roughly 7 full games, so
Case Keenum 2013 prorated stats
313-578 4,022 yards, 20 TDs 13 INTs, 32 rushes, 164 yards, 2 TDs
Or at least 8 games x 2
274-506 (16th in attempts), 3,520 yds 18 TDs 12 Ints, 32-164 yards, 2 TDs
.....................................................
Alex Smith
308-598, 3,313 yds, 23 TDs, 8 Ints
Carlson Palmer
362-572, 4,274 yds, 24TDs, 22 Ints,
Joe Flacco
362-614, 3,912 yds, 19 TDs, 22 Ints
Eli Manning
317-551, 3,818 yds, 18 TDs, 27 Ints,
Chad Henne
305-503, 3,241 yds, 13TDs, 14 Ints,
Ryan Tannehill
355-588, 3,913 yds, 24 TDs, 17 Ints
......................................................
Keenum's Opponents:
Chiefs 5th points allowed,
Colts 9th
Cards 7th
OAK 29th
JAX 28th
NE 10th
JAX 28th
Colts 9th
That's 5 games against top 10 scoring defenses.
DW4 played against 4 all year in 2019.
And that was a down year for the Oline in pass protection (27th) and penalties (27th)
2013 Offensive Line Rankings
In this look back at the offensive line units in 2013, Khaled Elsayed sets them in order, ranking all 32 and naming the studs and duds from each.
And the running game took a hit when Foster got injured before the halfway mark of the season and Tate playing on all those broken ribs of his.
At one point, none of the TEs were fully healthy either.
0-8 under Kubiak
2-0 under BOB
For a guy that sure likes numbers you fail to recognize the most important numbers.
You keep going back to number when you feel like it.
So for the same reason, 4 blow-out losses is all that matters.
Kubiak was mediocre with the Texans by going through 2-2 in the play-offs.
OB is terrible by going 2-4.
For a guy who likes to mention numbers, why don't you just admit it and stop going in circle.
)It's exactly because O'Brien did not have a vision from the start that I don't care for him.
He's been on a wild goose chase all this time, and like you, he keeps going in circle.
It doesn't matter what move(s) he made, and will make.
In today's NFL, the turnover in personnel is very quick, you need to build (quickly) through the draft - so that you can get the benefit of the rookie pay scale.
But O'Brien hasn't been able to develop these talents so he can't build a complete team.
If (let's say optimistically by using the term "when") the offense becomes above average next year, (let's say top ten), the defense will still be lagging because the draft picks and any FA(s) they can bring in with whatever money they can muster can't cover all the holes.
They still have to pay guys like Reader (or an equivalent FA), Fells, Hyde, etc.
And then they will have to take care of DW4, Tunsil.
They will be threading water in 2020, even with no real bad luck in injury;
but in 2021 is when the piper will really call.
I don't see anyway this team can be fully competitive.
The lucky streak will most likely have to end some time, and this team doesn't have the depth to sustain the rough water.
At best, it will just go round and round as OB continues to rob Paul to pay Peter.
theCATALYST
Football Messiah
Except for the year Schaub suffered his lisfranc injury, I can't remember a season in which our Offense and Defense where above average at the same time. It's been business as usual that when our offense is good, the defense isn't, and vice versa. We even seen this stark contrast from game to game. I'm not sure why they can't seem to hit on all cylinders at the same time.
Both 2011 and 2012 were hopeful.
Top ten in both points scored and points allowed.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/htx/
You keep going back to number when you feel like it.
So for the same reason, 4 blow-out losses is all that matters.
Kubiak was mediocre with the Texans by going through 2-2 in the play-offs.
OB is terrible by going 2-4.
For a guy who likes to mention numbers, why don't you just admit it and stop going in circle.
They got blown out by more talented/better teams.
It's really pretty simple.
He's got a vision, you just don't like his vision.
They aren't going to be signing DW4/Tunsil until next off-season when the cap goes up. Heck, the new cba may even exclude the QB cap hit.
I will be happy if they add a couple of high profile FA's to the defense and fix the secondary using both FA and the draft.
Yes, really simple.
And nothing absolve the HC from such responsibility.
If OB couldn't get a GM to see his vision, then he's too weak.
Do it all yourself doesn't work unless you're a real genius, and that is a rare thing.
What kind of vision that is shuffling through a gazillion QBs?
OB has no vision.
He had to wait until it's really clear that he needs a QB, a LT, a RT, etc to go get one.
That is reactionary.
Again, who was the GM at that time?
Did the GM value the QB position under the regime that got the GM his job to begin with?
Atleast now if there's failure it will be fully on BOB.
I'm looking forward to seeing his vision and hope everything works out.
What really matters is that Cal doesn't share your vision after 15 yrs of the Texans org sharing your vision, I'm for one happy for the change in philosophy.
Now BOB the HC should've been fired for 51-7.
Nothing absolves the HC from such responsibility.
If OB couldn't get a GM to see his vision, then he's too weak.
No excuse.
Yes.
And Yes.
The offense has never been good under obrien
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Took a long vacation from this thread.........just to find that my vacation was not long enough...........
Take another one, Doc.
LMAO
Here’s a fact:
1-22 record after trailing by 16 points or more in the third quarter under OB, but yet Cal kept him because of some exciting games this season.
What is is record when leading going into the 3rd quarter?
What is other coaches (Reid?) when trailing by 16 or more in the 3rd?
It equals incompetence
BoB is around 32-1 when leading at halftime per this article from Aug 2019. I think we might have lost a game this past season though.
Poll: How Has Bill O’Brien Done As Head Coach Of The Houston Texans?
Let’s look at the stats and see.
www.battleredblog.com
We lost the Titans game the year before when we had the lead before the half.BoB is around 32-1 when leading at halftime per this article from Aug 2019. I think we might have lost a game this past season though.
Poll: How Has Bill O’Brien Done As Head Coach Of The Houston Texans?
Let’s look at the stats and see.
BoB is around 32-1 when leading at halftime per this article from Aug 2019. I think we might have lost a game this past season though.
Poll: How Has Bill O’Brien Done As Head Coach Of The Houston Texans?
Let’s look at the stats and see.
Wow Crennnel did a good job
Hiring Crennel is still one of the best decisions O'Brien has made as Texans' HC
So that means he was 11-40 when trailing at half-time during that period of time.?BoB is around 32-1 when leading at halftime per this article from Aug 2019. I think we might have lost a game this past season though.
Poll: How Has Bill O’Brien Done As Head Coach Of The Houston Texans?
Let’s look at the stats and see.
What a depressing little stat.
Makes sense. His offense can't come back unless Watson goes nuts
Most games are decided by a TD or less.
Winning those games usually comes down to coaching/refs fixing games etc....
What was Kubiak's record in his 7 years?