Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
Sounds like a coach who's covering his butt.
Heaven forbid if Kubiak said such nonsense.
We get it. You don't like OB. Just put it in your sig already and get it over with.
Either get on or off the train at this point.
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Official Brock Osweiler MVP Watch Thread!
- Thread starter 76Texan
- Start date
We get it. You don't like OB. Just put it in your sig already and get it over with.
Either get on or off the train at this point.
xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
Sounds like a coach who's covering his butt.
Heaven forbid if Kubiak said such nonsense.
Except OB actually said he wasn't game planning before the game. And he said he doubted that the Cards were going to either.
& the Cardinals put tire tracks all over us.
I'd like to see some semblance of a running game, that is all.
Be honest... you felt it wiggle when you saw that pic?
I think you'll see one when the OL gets a bit healthier. Our 2s are playing against the other teams 1s and our 3s against 2s. I think Miller is really talented and if they can just give him a crease good things will happen.
2 other thoughts:
If Brock and the WRs keep playing the way they have you'll have a lot more room to run.
I wouldn't be surprised to see the OL addressed like the WR group was this year. Big year for XSF he needs to show up consistently , and we need to draft a DB replacement to start getting his feet wet.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Clark has done a pretty decent job too. But we will need both Newton and Brown back for the Running game to flourish.
It's been a minute since Duane's been "that guy" & Newton never was.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Newton is a decent run blocker is what I'm saying.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
I don't know how good their running game is. Their Oline is shot. The QB is going to get sacked a lot. A lot of run plays will get stuffed. Next off season, they'll likely have an ugly Oline draft.
well that speaks to the ineffective tackling of our defense doesn't it? Nuttin' to do with whether or there was a game plan or not. ...for either team.
Brandon420tx
Flounder
I don't necessarily think Osweiler has MVP potential. But he does have one key trait that I feel is essential for a QB to win in this game. He trusts his playmakers on offense. A team needs that to win in the post season.
There are very few examples in recent history of a game managing QB having a large amount of success in the playoffs. The guys I'm referring to are the ones who focus on not making mistakes and letting the defense dictate how the game will go.
In the playoffs you don't really have to be a good QB to have success, you just have to have playmakers and you have to trust those playmakers. Eli Manning is the first QB that comes to mind when I follow this train of thought. I personally don't think highly of Eli as a QB, he's very prone to make mistakes. However I will say he trusts his playmakers and will force defense to beat him when he throws the ball to those guys. I put Aaron Rodgers in this category too. You can say that Aaron Rodgers is an elite QB, and make very good arguments for that fact, however in my opinion I think he struggles when he doesn't have pure playmakers to throw to. He's a guy who needs playmakers, and absolutely trusts those playmakers. He is very good at putting those types of players in positions to win on their raw talent, and that is why he is a good QB, and absolutely amazing when surrounded with talent. Ben Roethlisberger also comes to mind here.
That is the category of QB I put Brock in, he could be as bad as Eli, or as good as Rodgers. He is a guy with absolute faith in his playmakers, you can see that last season when throwing to the very talented WRs in Denver. Objectively, his throws weren't perfect passes, but they gave his playmakers a chance, and that is what is important to his success.
Truly elite, MVP caliber Quarterbacks don't need that type of talent at the skill positions to be successful, but they also put absolute faith in their playmakers when they do have them,and that's when they have those truly amazing (potentially record breaking/setting) seasons. It is very hard to be this type of player. Tom Brady, Drew Brees, and Peyton Manning can do this, they have the ability to consistently win games without studs on the outside, but they also will milk that bellcow when they have those impact players without hesitation. In the current NFL, there is only 1 QB I think can consider possibly joining the truly elite. I think that is Russell Wilson. I haven't been impressed with his WR corps the last few season yet he is very successful without absolute studs on the outside. Jermaine Kearse has been his best receiver the last 2 seasons imo. The Seahawks have tried to get him more, but I firmly believe their offensive success in recent history has been mostly due to their run game, and Russell Wilson being exceptionally good. Once he gets the playmakers on the outside people are going to be absolutely amazed at his performance. Hopefully Lockett can be one of those guys for him.
I know I focus alot on "playmakers" in this post, but offense in the NFL has changed. There are enough teams out there with very, very good defenses, you have to have playmakers that can win in spite of this in order to be successful, especially in the post season when you are likely to meet these types of defenses. (Panthers, Patriots, Seahawks, Broncos, aaaaaaand DA HOUSTON TEXANS .... <.< )
There are very few examples in recent history of a game managing QB having a large amount of success in the playoffs. The guys I'm referring to are the ones who focus on not making mistakes and letting the defense dictate how the game will go.
In the playoffs you don't really have to be a good QB to have success, you just have to have playmakers and you have to trust those playmakers. Eli Manning is the first QB that comes to mind when I follow this train of thought. I personally don't think highly of Eli as a QB, he's very prone to make mistakes. However I will say he trusts his playmakers and will force defense to beat him when he throws the ball to those guys. I put Aaron Rodgers in this category too. You can say that Aaron Rodgers is an elite QB, and make very good arguments for that fact, however in my opinion I think he struggles when he doesn't have pure playmakers to throw to. He's a guy who needs playmakers, and absolutely trusts those playmakers. He is very good at putting those types of players in positions to win on their raw talent, and that is why he is a good QB, and absolutely amazing when surrounded with talent. Ben Roethlisberger also comes to mind here.
That is the category of QB I put Brock in, he could be as bad as Eli, or as good as Rodgers. He is a guy with absolute faith in his playmakers, you can see that last season when throwing to the very talented WRs in Denver. Objectively, his throws weren't perfect passes, but they gave his playmakers a chance, and that is what is important to his success.
Truly elite, MVP caliber Quarterbacks don't need that type of talent at the skill positions to be successful, but they also put absolute faith in their playmakers when they do have them,and that's when they have those truly amazing (potentially record breaking/setting) seasons. It is very hard to be this type of player. Tom Brady, Drew Brees, and Peyton Manning can do this, they have the ability to consistently win games without studs on the outside, but they also will milk that bellcow when they have those impact players without hesitation. In the current NFL, there is only 1 QB I think can consider possibly joining the truly elite. I think that is Russell Wilson. I haven't been impressed with his WR corps the last few season yet he is very successful without absolute studs on the outside. Jermaine Kearse has been his best receiver the last 2 seasons imo. The Seahawks have tried to get him more, but I firmly believe their offensive success in recent history has been mostly due to their run game, and Russell Wilson being exceptionally good. Once he gets the playmakers on the outside people are going to be absolutely amazed at his performance. Hopefully Lockett can be one of those guys for him.
I know I focus alot on "playmakers" in this post, but offense in the NFL has changed. There are enough teams out there with very, very good defenses, you have to have playmakers that can win in spite of this in order to be successful, especially in the post season when you are likely to meet these types of defenses. (Panthers, Patriots, Seahawks, Broncos, aaaaaaand DA HOUSTON TEXANS .... <.< )
Brandon420tx
Flounder
Dont forget the Texans MB team on GLB: The Toros!
Scooter
Funky
Holy damn I haven't thought about the GLB team in forever. I know Tech had taken over after I quit ... is that still a thing?
Brandon420tx
Flounder
I don't know, I finally gave it up about 2 years ago
Scooter
Funky
wow, send me a pm with some sort of recap of the previous few years.
Scooter
Funky
Forgive me if I don't trust your assessment of quarterbacks ... Manziel and Kaepernick on the same page? Lol. I'm amazed that you have the audacity to post, let alone call someone not a fan for disliking a quarterback that you have a crush on.
http://www.texanstalk.com/threads/the-johnny-football-manziel-nfl-thread.105133/
I think you wanted a 'stud' who got benched for Blaine Gabbart to be injured a few days ago as he went 3rd string 'we the idiots'. And you get pissed off at me favoring a pair of coaches - Superbowl ring and top 10 all time defense ... my bad lol.
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I liked your post, though I don't agree with it. Well thought out, good argument...
I don't think we can say right now if Osweiler has MVP potential or not yet. We need to see how he progresses through the next couple of years. I think he should focus on being a game manager at first, then learn from his experiences to "figure out" defenses. If he ever gets to the point where he recognizes defenses & starts picking them apart, then we can start talking about MVP.
PapaL
Loose Screw
I think it's fair to say that this has been a glaring need for a couple of years now. I've come to accept the WFV pick this year but would have loved to get a tackle like Spiggs. Hopefully next year we invest in our big uglies.
sandman
Brexit Advisor
Trying so hard not to derail this thread. Or get banned.
#ThatsWhatSheSaidBrock is MVP only if this Oline can give him time. Or keep him upright. Or keep him from getting killed. Not even sure where to set the expectation level for the minimum that they need to do as a group. Will be interesting to see how effective he will be with the patchwork in front of him.
Malloy
Hall of Fame
PapaL
Loose Screw
Trying so hard not to derail this thread. Or get banned.
Brock is MVP only if this Oline can give him time. Or keep him upright. Or keep him from getting killed. Not even sure where to set the expectation level for the minimum that they need to do as a group. Will be interesting to see how effective he will be with the patchwork in front of him.
IMO, when you invest so much in a QB you must surround him with weapons and protection; that makes an MVP QB.
This year we got the QB and upgraded his toys. We MUST upgrade the protection sooner rather than later...so he can win an MVP.
Malloy
Hall of Fame
TxnsJuggernaut
Veteran
You do realize that outside a modest amount of success in two games Weeden has been average at his best and it was rare for him to reach that level. I would hardly crown him the better of the three Qb's based on such a small sample size. He did well when called upon for a limited amount of time and that was nice to see but he hardly has shown himself to be any better than Os or Savage.
IMO, when you invest so much in a QB you must surround him with weapons and protection; that makes an MVP QB.
This year we got the QB and upgraded his toys. We MUST upgrade the protection sooner rather than later...so he can win an MVP.
You would think McNair would have learned from the Carr experience. I guess not
TxnsJuggernaut
Veteran
Two fill in games does not a Qb make. If our coaching staff thought that highly of Weeden he would have gotten more of a look this preseason and he would have had a chance to be the back up to Osweiler.
The Browns have been a dysfunctional mess for a long time but even Brian Hoyer did more with the Browns than did Brandon Weeden.
I am not a Brandon Weeden hater but come on 2 games does not make Weeden the guy for the job. I would say the same of our new toy at Qb Brock Osweiler if he lights it up the first couple weeks of the season. It is a long season and it takes at least half a season or close to it to get a feel for what kind of Qb you have.
I do know that as the season went on last season Brock was regressing. If he is our guy he will not regress but get better each week or show he is developing. His poor play in the San Diego game got him pulled. However I think with Peyton most likely retiring at seasons end there was no way Peyton was not coming back unless Brock was looking like Peyton in his prime or any other star Qb.
Brock did not do much statistically last season but he won enough games to help Denver. He is raw. More raw than Weeden. So for people to already make up their minds as to what kind of Qb Brock is or will be is rediculous.
By the way there were Broncos players saying before contract talks for Brock last season that Denver should keep Brock. Even they saw the leadership qualities that Brock brings to the table.
Those qualities are something a person either has or doesn't. Brock has plenty of touch and arm talent. So with that in mind and the leadership qualities he possesses, I see no reason he can't be at least as good as Matt Schaub was before being injured. People forget that up until Matt Schaub was injured we had it pretty good with him. Just a shame he fell apart so fast and became so bad.
I do not know the future in regards to Brock but I have faith that getting him was a collective decison and if they all felt that he has something to offer than I have no doubt that he will produce better than he did last season and any of our Qb's from last season did. He may not be a pro bowler this season but we only need him to be half that good if our defense produces like the latter half of last season all season long.
I am a fan and I will choose to be confident and have faith. If everybody else wants to hate on our own player that is on them.
I support Weeden and Savage as well as long as they are with the Texans.
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Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
What a complete and utter reach on your part. Lol! You are pretty desperate to go digging that far and trying to use a SB QB to try and rip my analysis. Any QB that played like CK did that season at that young of an age will get praise from me if that's all I've seen of him.
Kaepernick had just been one of the youngest QB to reach a SB at that time, and was playing at a very high level. He looked like a future star in the making. You think that you're going to fry me with that one? I judged Kaepernick based on how he was playing at the time and what we had seen. There wasn't anything to question at that time.
You think that somehow absolves your hypocritical stance on Oz when you cheered for him last season because he played for Kubiak? You fraudulently call yourself a fan on this site while the minute he comes over here you insist the Texans were a bunch of fools for taking that guy on considering the fact that they weren't in a good draft position to get a young hot young QB, and the FA market wasn't good at all? Most of the NFL was shocked when the Texans pulled that off to peel Oz away from Denver, and considered it a pretty shrewd move to sneak him away from Elway. You are also to chicken to even bring up other scenarios that were better for the Texans in this off season. You haven't come up with jack.
Keep posting on this site. I hope you do, because I'll gladly expose your hate and thirst for this regime to crash and burn. It must suck having to come in here all the time and see Rick Smith working well with another HC, and if Oz works out well here, you'll constantly have to swallow it knowing he should have been playing for the Broncos but OB snuck him away.
xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
Can't fix all holes at once.
The Texans HAVE invested in the Oline.
Brown 1st rounder signed to good contract.
Sua filo 32nd pick.
Nick Martin 2nd rounder
Allen Good FA signing.
Newton retained on a good deal.
Clark Traded for and retained.
Bergstrom FA signing.
The team has invested there. Sua filo hasn't done much and we've had a bunch of injuries. There's not going to be a bunch of studs waiting to back those guys up. Nobody has that luxury.
I'd say all things considered they've done pretty well filling the holes left by injured OLine starters up to this point.
But nobody loses 3 projected oline starters and doesn't feel that.
The Texans HAVE invested in the Oline.
Brown 1st rounder signed to good contract.
Sua filo 32nd pick.
Nick Martin 2nd rounder
Allen Good FA signing.
Newton retained on a good deal.
Clark Traded for and retained.
Bergstrom FA signing.
The team has invested there. Sua filo hasn't done much and we've had a bunch of injuries. There's not going to be a bunch of studs waiting to back those guys up. Nobody has that luxury.
I'd say all things considered they've done pretty well filling the holes left by injured OLine starters up to this point.
But nobody loses 3 projected oline starters and doesn't feel that.
I agree but I'd definitely like to add a good young LT prospect to the mix next offseason. With Brown's injury I think it's time we find someone to groom to step in for the future.
I also really hope XSF steps up and becomes a mainstay on the OL for us. I've seen him look terrific at times and other times I'm scratching my head
PapaL
Loose Screw
They've invested in the interior, no doubt about that. Trading a 7th for a swing, drafting Nick Mondek with a 6th, Q with a 6th, and Newton with a 7th isn't investing IMO. We've all known that Brown is probably on the decline. Nevermind that we knew going into the off-season that he had a serious injury. 2013 is the last year we drafted/brought in a young tackle.
*Edit*
I forgot about Brennan Williams in the 3rd; same year as Q. That's how bad our selections of tackles.
Agreed with most, however they did sign Newton to a 2nd contract (wisely or not) and that is investing
TxnsJuggernaut
Veteran
If he does have IT we still will not know that until at least half way through the season. Also, even under the best of circumstances I do not see Brock getting MVP honors for the league but he for sure could get MVP of the team honors.
TxnsJuggernaut
Veteran
TxnsJuggernaut
Veteran
Brian Hoyer got a whole season under our system and if we could put the playoff game out of our minds we would see that he would have made for a solid back up.
Yes we all are butt hurt over how the playoff game went but Brian did a adequate job when he played before then. Usually back ups come in for only a short period of time and Brian is plenty good enough to have done that for our team. Just an opinion I share with a limited few.
Scooter
Funky
Paragraph 1 - I only had to read half of page one to get that. Paragraph 2 - Kaep only got there because coach decided he didn't need to hang on to Alex Smith who was doing just fine. Paragraph 3 - please quote this love I had for Oz as a Bronco, if you can find one (maybe the Pats game?) it will take half of that time to find 20 against ... you don't actually read my posts (which is quite hilarious to your 'chicken' comment), you just get angry at what you assume I've said and start accusing in convoluted book form. Paragraph 4 - I will, thanks. O'Brien and Oz, I don't like these two signings, and these are the only two I've been vocal about - and that makes me not a fan.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Quick question: I'm fairly new here, so I have ask; why don't you like those two signings?
Not speaking for him, but he didn't want Kubiak fired, and I'm guessing he wanted a QB drafted
Trying so hard not to derail this thread. Or get banned.
Brock is MVP only if this Oline can give him time. Or keep him upright. Or keep him from getting killed. Not even sure where to set the expectation level for the minimum that they need to do as a group. Will be interesting to see how effective he will be with the patchwork in front of him.
One thing this last preseason game showed me is that Brock can get the ball out on time.
To me, this is a tool, one he needs to learn to use. Like a boxer uses his jab to feel out an opponent. First few snaps, get the ball out on time, whether it's for a completion or throwing it away. Figure out what the defense is doing & beat it.
Scooter
Funky
As JB said I didn't like (the K word) being fired, but that has ZERO bearing on O'Brien. Sadly many assume that the two are a link, so I've been labeled as such. I didn't/don't like O'Brien because nothing in his limited coaching career even hinted at him being capable. He was wildly, laughably inexperienced and has had no success (ever) on his own. His claim to fame is arguing with Brady and not having a losing record at Penn St.
Oz I just don't think is going to be very good, not much more complicated than that. I thought he was crap coming out of college, thought he was crap in Denver and just assume that he'll be crap here.
Considering that school was basically handed a death sentence and lost most of their own existing players, I though BOB did a damn good job coaching there personally. Also, BOB is our coach and will be. He is a Texans. If you can't be positive and support him as such, then I really have to ask... why are you still here? You hate the GM, you hate the coach, and you hate the FO for firing Kubes. Sounds like you might need to find another team, because the FO and BOB look as they are here to stay.
Scooter
Funky
How about you find another team? I'm doing just fine here, thanks.
Unlike you, I actually like BOB and like the team. I have my reservations about Rick still, but he has done good work as well and as long as the he is the GM, I will hope for the best for him and the Texans. I wasn't trying to run you out though, was just trying to figure out why you are still here if you despise at least 2/3 of the team. It just seems completely and utterly stupid to stick around something you don't like and rain on other people's parades while you are at it. I will ask again, though given your last response, I don't expect any good answer... why are you still here if you hate things that much? The rational thing would be to look for a team you actually enjoy watching wouldn't it?
Texansballer74
The Marine
Again you have to start somewhere. Unfortunately the FA class wasn't strong at QB and the draft class wasn't that strong IMO after the two that went in the top 10. We did not have what it would take to move that far up in the draft to get anyone of those guys. Brock fell into our laps and I believe he will be better than advertised. One thing I observed over the past two season, is Coach O'Brien knows how to get the best out of the QB position. Therefore, I trust he will continue that with Brock.
But hey time will tell is another one of my sayings. I'm very optimistic until proven wrong. LOL
Scooter
Funky
1. How does disliking decisions made by the team make someone less of a fan? If everybody left with bad coaching and quarterback hires, there would be 32 empty stadiums.
2. Rational has nothing to do with being a fan lol.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Scooter
Funky
There's nothing better for a jaded fan than to be proven wrong, and I hope that I am. I'll be here wearing my Osweiler jersey rooting for him. This isn't game day though, on the forum I'm going to post my thoughts on the the team and what I think of their decisions - especially the ones I don't believe are going to make us winners.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
He is here to make attempts to tick people off and to undermine everything the team does under OB. He was broken hearted when Kubiak was fired and threw the biggest fit over it when they went 2-14. He is an ex Aggie that feels extra ties to Kubiak since he was an Aggie also.
Since Kubiak was fired, he took his rage out on OB and OB's staff since OB fired everyone that was from the previous staff. Instead of giving the new guy a chance, he somehow made took it personal as a fan of Kubiak as if OB got him fired or something. It is pretty strange. He desperately wants to see OB fail so he can come in here and rub it in everyone's noses about how Kubiak shouldn't have been fired even though he had 8 years and had an overall record under 500%. He won't be satisfied until he sees that happen, so every move the franchise makes and ever coaching move OB counters with he'll criticize it and dump all over it. He refuses to give OB any credit for the last two seasons and is just invested in seeing termoil here. A lot of that has to do with years and years of failed arguments he made for Kubiak that didn't pan out, so there is the "pride" thing.
Any way, I just wanted to give you the rundown so you weren't confused with his intentions. They are what they are, and don't get bothered by it. As long as OB is here, it is bothering him plenty and it rots him to the core. He isn't a fan and won't be until OB is out of here. Whether he'll give the next HC a chance is anybody's guess, because he refuses to answer that when asked. He just poses as this long term fan which he was up until Kubiak was sent packing. He was way more of a Kubiak fan than he ever was a Texans fan.
He isn't the only one either. There are about 5 or so others that still hate OB for the same reasons. Not nearly as much as him though. Several of them left the site once Kubiak was gone.
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