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Official Brock Osweiler MVP Watch Thread!

sandman said:
I think you misunderstand. You said there were guys with new teams, HC, OC, teammates, etc. that performed well. I'm assuming you meant historically that you could look back to as a benchmark to judge where Os is currently at with the Texans. I was simply asking to give us some of those guys so we can see the comparisons that you are using. Not saying they are wrong, just asking for details.
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The only one I can think of is Steve Young. He went to the 49ers from the Buccaneers and he became one of the greatest quarterbacks to play this game.

Drew Breezy went from the Chargers to the Saints and he's one of the greats as well.

Now those where two totally different situations. But they did go to new teams, OC, HC, and teammates.
 
sandman said:
I think you misunderstand. You said there were guys with new teams, HC, OC, teammates, etc. that performed well. I'm assuming you meant historically that you could look back to as a benchmark to judge where Os is currently at with the Texans. I was simply asking to give us some of those guys so we can see the comparisons that you are using. Not saying they are wrong, just asking for details.
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The only one I can think of is Steve Young. He went to the 49ers from the Buccaneers and he became one of the greatest quarterbacks to play this game.

Drew Breezy went from the Chargers to the Saints and he's one of the greats as well.

Now those where two totally different situations. But they did go to new teams, OC, HC, and teammates.

They were not backups though. Lol backups
 
Texansballer74 said:
But the thing is, we don't really know if he is or isn't. But if I were a gambling man I would bet Elway and company thought he was their franchise quarterback. Thus the reason why he is so butt hurt that he left.
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To add to this, according to NFLN just last night, the Broncos tried to match the Texans offer but Brock stopped taking their calls. He had already made up his mind to come to Houston. He liked what he saw in O'Brien from the Hard Knocks series, liked the offensive scheme that gives the QB so much control on the field, and wanted his own team instead of living in a shadow.

Honestly, I think this is simple Occam's razor in that it makes the most logical sense. All the other stuff is just agenda-based speculation perpetrated to tear down Brock.
 
Double Barrel said:
To add to this, according to NFLN just last night, the Broncos tried to match the Texans offer but Brock stopped taking their calls. He had already made up his mind to come to Houston. He liked what he saw in O'Brien from the Hard Knocks series, liked the offensive scheme that gives the QB so much control on the field, and wanted his own team instead of living in a shadow.

Honestly, I think this is simple Occam's razor in that it makes the most logical sense. All the other stuff is just agenda-based speculation perpetrated to tear down Brock.
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You know I wasn't exactly thrilled with the Brock signing at first.

Since he has come here though, I have to say I like his attitude he has brought with him. He really seems to have a nasty chip on his shoulder. I don't know what ticked him off so badly about Elway and Kubes, but he seems to have really felt neglected and overlooked by them. He didn't go to their ring ceremony either. It seems like he really wanted to create "his own" offense with a regime that has the confidence that he feels he deserves, which tells me that he's got a pretty strong "inner confidence" in himself and what anyone else thinks doesn't matter to him. He feels like he has that "it" factor about himself obviously. Now whether he is completely delusional about that is yet to be seen, but clearly he wants to make sure that he sets the record straight. I think that is a really good sign unless he is just one of those overly arrogant guys with an over hyped sense about his abilities. Either way, I think you have to have that to be a great QB in this league. He obviously does.

I also like the leadership qualities he has displayed so far. He has wanted to get to work right away from day one. He took Savage under his wing as well, when a lot of other QB's would not have. Many would have been insecure about that, but not him. He embraced any competition he may have, and decided to be very friendly and open towards getting everyone better. Many other coaches have stated that he is a very "intelligent" QB as well so that is also good to hear. A lot of QB's simply aren't even when they try really hard to be. Now will all this translate on the field to where he becomes a great QB in this league for many years? I don't know. Only time will tell, but I've never liked the attitude of a Texans QB like I do with Brock right now.
 
So... when we compare Osweiler to other QBs in the league this season, which stats are we going to use? W-L? Yards? QBR? Passer rating? YPA?


I know it doesn't make sense to compare Osweiler to other QBs on a game by game basis & that it doesn't mean anything, but we're going to do it anyway. Can we establish some ground rules?
 
Texecutioner said:
You know I wasn't exactly thrilled with the Brock signing at first.

Since he has come here though, I have to say I like his attitude he has brought with him. He really seems to have a nasty chip on his shoulder. I don't know what ticked him off so badly about Elway and Kubes, but he seems to have really felt neglected and overlooked by them. He didn't go to their ring ceremony either. It seems like he really wanted to create "his own" offense with a regime that has the confidence that he feels he deserves, which tells me that he's got a pretty strong "inner confidence" in himself and what anyone else thinks doesn't matter to him. He feels like he has that "it" factor about himself obviously. Now whether he is completely delusional about that is yet to be seen, but clearly he wants to make sure that he sets the record straight. I think that is a really good sign unless he is just one of those overly arrogant guys with an over hyped sense about his abilities. Either way, I think you have to have that to be a great QB in this league. He obviously does.

I also like the leadership qualities he has displayed so far. He has wanted to get to work right away from day one. He took Savage under his wing as well, when a lot of other QB's would not have. Many would have been insecure about that, but not him. He embraced any competition he may have, and decided to be very friendly and open towards getting everyone better. Many other coaches have stated that he is a very "intelligent" QB as well so that is also good to hear. A lot of QB's simply aren't even when they try really hard to be. Now will all this translate on the field to where he becomes a great QB in this league for many years? I don't know. Only time will tell, but I've never liked the attitude of a Texans QB like I do with Brock right now.
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I'll be honest, I was shocked when they signed him. I remember being jealous of the Broncos last year when Brock made up a 14 point deficit in the 4th quarter to beat the Patriots. It annoyed me that they have Manning and then also have this kid waiting in the wings.

I didn't let my hopes get up, but I'm pessimistic that way. Not getting hopes up prevents disappointment. :D

I really like what Brock is doing and saying right now. That article recently posted on NFL.com was very insightful. He's not trying too hard. He's obviously showing what he learned from being Manning's student for four seasons.

His leadership appears natural. He's not a rah rah bullshit guy, but instead leads by example and pays attention to his squad. Just the story about how he handled himself and his WRs during the offseason practices was good to read. The players respect that about him. He's doesn't have an ego chip on his shoulder about being seen as "The Man". He's just naturally accepting his role instead of forcing it. There is a coolness factor that I already like about him.

Obviously what matters in the end is performance. And on that, like you said, all any of us can do is wait and see.
 
thunderkyss said:
So... when we compare Osweiler to other QBs in the league this season, which stats are we going to use? W-L? Yards? QBR? Passer rating? YPA?


I know it doesn't make sense to compare Osweiler to other QBs on a game by game basis & that it doesn't mean anything, but we're going to do it anyway. Can we establish some ground rules?
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Every thing goes Thunder.
 
thunderkyss said:
So... when we compare Osweiler to other QBs in the league this season, which stats are we going to use? W-L? Yards? QBR? Passer rating? YPA?


I know it doesn't make sense to compare Osweiler to other QBs on a game by game basis & that it doesn't mean anything, but we're going to do it anyway. Can we establish some ground rules?
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Win football games.

Don't give a shit how he's compared to others because it's not going to matter. The Texans could go 19-0 and somebody will still be busting his chops.
 
If Oz went sour on the Broncos for benching him, how will he feel if the Texans name a different starter?
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
Just played with Os on Madden.

Dudes legit!!!!
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TxnsJuggernaut said:
Dak has been impressive but this is still preseason and a lot of things change come regular season.
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Doesn't that apply to all preseason QB play, including Osweiler's?
Not saying Osweiler will suck but if it's preseason for Prescott it's preseason for Osweiler. ...and Goff ...and Wentz etc. etc....
 
I don't see the Texans keeping three QBs on the roster. My opinion is that Weeden will be cut, but not till the last minute so that no other team will pick him up with much time to prepare before the season starts. Barring injury, there is no way Osweiler will lose "his" starting job, and there is no way the Texans give up on Savage, whom they have invested three years in.

Of course, if they cut Weeden and a QB goes down, the Texans will be in the same position as last year.
 
Thorsson said:
I don't see the Texans keeping three QBs on the roster. My opinion is that Weeden will be cut, but not till the last minute so that no other team will pick him up with much time to prepare before the season starts. Barring injury, there is no way Osweiler will lose "his" starting job, and there is no way the Texans give up on Savage, whom they have invested three years in.

Of course, if they cut Weeden and a QB goes down, the Texans will be in the same position as last year.
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With all the injuries suffered in the past, I don't think it's beyond a reasonable assumption that they will carry 3 to start the season. Whether or not all 3 make it the entire season is a toss up
 
ObsiWan said:
Doesn't that apply to all preseason QB play, including Osweiler's?
Not saying Osweiler will suck but if it's preseason for Prescott it's preseason for Osweiler. ...and Goff ...and Wentz etc. etc....
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We have to be careful about unrealistic expectations based on preseason fool's gold. Most of these backup QBs are playing against other backups (and even guys that won't be in the league in a couple of weeks) and are not seeing any blitz packages. Many teams, including the Texans, are working on fundamentals and do not include anything exotic. Heck, they play soft on coverage a lot of the time, so many of the passes they are completing now will not be there in regular season when teams are playing to win the games (as opposed to running plays to evaluate players). There are only about 20 or so truly legit pass rushers that dominate, and NONE of these backup QBs are seeing action against any of those guys.

At least with Brock we have 7 games where he actually played the games last year. No such thing for Goff, Wentz, etc., right now.
 
WolverineFan said:
With the amount of QB injuries we've had over the last few years I don't see any way we only carry 2. Especially with the OL problems we're having right now.
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I find it hard to believe as well. But if they're looking for that extra roster spot for a 4th RB or 6th WR/CB...

It's going to be tough this year.
 
Double Barrel said:
We have to be careful about unrealistic expectations based on preseason fool's gold. Most of these backup QBs are playing against other backups (and even guys that won't be in the league in a couple of weeks) and are not seeing any blitz packages. Many teams, including the Texans, are working on fundamentals and do not include anything exotic. Heck, they play soft on coverage a lot of the time, so many of the passes they are completing now will not be there in regular season when teams are playing to win the games (as opposed to running plays to evaluate players). There are only about 20 or so truly legit pass rushers that dominate, and NONE of these backup QBs are seeing action against any of those guys.

At least with Brock we have 7 games where he actually played the games last year. No such thing for Goff, Wentz, etc., right now.
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Yeah, there are always pre season warriors every year. Remember how LeStar Jean would always look like AJ lite in pre season? Lol! Jacoby Jones had everybody thinking he was going to be a star that one year. Case Keenum dominated pre season that one year which got everybody wanting to see what he could do. Then the regular season comes, and the vacation is over.
 
Texecutioner said:
Yeah, there are always pre season warriors every year. Remember how LeStar Jean would always look like AJ lite in pre season? Lol! Jacoby Jones had everybody thinking he was going to be a star that one year. Case Keenum dominated pre season that one year which got everybody wanting to see what he could do. Then the regular season comes, and the vacation is over.
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yeah, sometimes it's a hint at potential talent, but more often than not, I think it's fool's gold. I speak from experience, too. I'm just like any other fan. Time and time again we get fooled in preseason. So enjoy seeing football, but remain skeptical until we see live fire.

I am curious about Dak Prescott right now, tho'. With Romo's inevitable injury, I think we will find out that answer sooner than later.
 
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Double Barrel said:
yeah, sometimes it's a hint at potential talent, but more often than not, I think it's fool's gold. I speak from experience, too. I'm just like any other fan. Time and time again we get fooled in preseason. So enjoy seeing football, but remain skeptical until we see live fire.

I am curious about Dak Prescott right now, tho'. With Romo's inevitable injury, I think we will find out that answer sooner than later.
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Had him in mind when I mentioned Keenum.
 
Double Barrel said:
yeah, sometimes it's a hint at potential talent, but more often than not, I think it's fool's gold.
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I don't know about fools gold... I think it's more like Osweiler says, everyday you've got to be getting better. If you aren't... you tend to fade away.

That's what the NFL is to me. I don't care what Osweiler was before this season. I just hope he becomes a top 5 QB in this league going forward.
 
thunderkyss said:
I don't know about fools gold... I think it's more like Osweiler says, everyday you've got to be getting better. If you aren't... you tend to fade away.

That's what the NFL is to me. I don't care what Osweiler was before this season. I just hope he becomes a top 5 QB in this league going forward.
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When I hear callers on sports talk radio waxing on and on about Savage because of preseason play, it's fool's gold to me.

And I agree with you about Brock, but even he would admit that playing a few drives in a preseason game is nothing like playing a full game against starters. This is why O'Brien said they work on fundamentals in preseason and there is nothing exotic about what they are doing out there. He said preseason vs. regular season is night and day. Preseason is fundamentals and evaluation.
 
Even the 3rd preseason game, the big bad 3rd preseason game, is blown out of proportion compared to the regular season.

Certainly so according to one Bill Belichick ...

Patriots' third preseason game is no 'dress rehearsal' to Bill Belichick

"I don't think you can compare this game to a regular-season game, even though I've heard people try to do that. I'm not sure what game they're looking at," Belichick said Monday, going out of his way to make a point.

While acknowledging that playing time might be closer to a regular-season type level, and one-on-one matchups could closer resemble the regular season, he said there's little else, if anything, that is similar.

"In terms of game-planning and strategy, and what we see in the regular season compared to what we see in the third preseason game, I don't even think you're in the same universe," Belichick said on the "Dale and Holley Show with Thornton."

"We're still running our basic plays. Our opponents, we'd expect, would run their basic plays. You get to the opener and start to get into game-planning and scheme, I mean, you're in a totally different ballpark in my opinion. I don't see any relation, any comparison at all. It's so far away I don't see how you can compare them from that standpoint."
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... preseason and regular season are night and day, like night and day on Mercury, different.
 
The telling signs of the 3rd pre season game and what I look for Is your QB and WRs in sync, are your OL and DL getting manhandled or are they the manhandlers, is the opposing QB ripping your secondary to shreds, are special teams good or bad, is the running game + or -, can they score in the red zone, can they stop teams in the red zone, just to list a few.

If your basic fundamentals are not performing your advanced game plan probably won't either.
 
Thorsson said:
I don't see the Texans keeping three QBs on the roster. My opinion is that Weeden will be cut, but not till the last minute so that no other team will pick him up with much time to prepare before the season starts. Barring injury, there is no way Osweiler will lose "his" starting job, and there is no way the Texans give up on Savage, whom they have invested three years in.

Of course, if they cut Weeden and a QB goes down, the Texans will be in the same position as last year.
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I swearantee they'll carry 3. And as much as we get them hurt, they better. Remember Smith wouldn't even let Obie cut Mallett until they signed another QB.
 
Mollywhopper said:
He was benched when someone else fumbled.

He was under no obligation to sign with them.

His agent instructed him not to take any calls.

I honestly think some fans desire misery.
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I thought Osweiler being quite upset with being benched and his backup status into the playoffs was common knowledge, said by his camp that he held onto that into the offseason, combined with his agent seeing the opportunity of not re-signing in a market completely void of quarterbacks. Reports, and a very funny .gif of Oz grabbing his helmet and his 'WTF moment' as Peyton goes onto the field, go back from that exact moment through to today. Both Kubiak and Elway went out of their way during the playoffs to say that the change 'wasn't Osweiler's fault', despite putting the obviously injured and incapable veteran quarterback into the game. A quick Google has too many articles to list about how that moment went and Oz's reaction. An afternoon playing catch vs meeting the President with the team that won a Superbowl. Really?

He's the quarterback of my team, but let's not ignore reality. Dude had a case of butthurt that even the currently thin skinned CnD would struggle to diagnose.
 
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Scooter said:
I thought Osweiler being quite upset with being benched and his backup status into the playoffs was common knowledge, said by his camp that he held onto that into the offseason, combined with his agent seeing the opportunity of not re-signing in a market completely void of quarterbacks. Reports, and a very funny .gif of Oz grabbing his helmet and his 'WTF moment' as Peyton goes onto the field, go back from that exact moment through to today. Both Kubiak and Elway went out of their way during the playoffs to say that the change 'wasn't Osweiler's fault', despite putting the obviously injured and incapable veteran quarterback into the game. A quick Google has too many articles to list about how that moment went and Oz's reaction. An afternoon playing catch vs meeting the President with the team that won a Superbowl. Really?

He's the quarterback of my team, but let's not ignore reality. Dude had a case of butthurt that even the currently thin skinned CnD would struggle to diagnose.
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Are you conflating Brock's 'very funny wtf' helmet grabbing moment of 2014 with last year's benching after CJ Anderson put the ball on the ground?
 
Mollywhopper said:
Are you conflating Brock's 'very funny wtf' helmet grabbing moment of 2014 with last year's benching after CJ Anderson put the ball on the ground?
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You're correct. I was mislead to believing that the .gif was the more famous game. My point remains, and there are pictures of him sulking during that game, but I was wrong about the .gif.

Point remains - and are backed up by twitter from other Broncos and statements from team and coaches. Dude had an epic case of butthurt - before being signed by the Texans. This wasn't some new development that some seem to have ignored.
 
Scooter said:
You're correct. I was mislead to believing that the .gif was the more famous game. My point remains, and there are pictures of him sulking during that game, but I was wrong about the .gif.

Point remains - and are backed up by twitter from other Broncos and statements from team and coaches. Dude had an epic case of butthurt - before being signed by the Texans. This wasn't some new development that some seem to have ignored.
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So his butthurt, now, is of his wanting to contribute and compete?

What a d*ck, amirite?
 
Mollywhopper said:
So his butthurt, now, is of his wanting to play and contribute?

What a d*ck, amirite?
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There's the Charles James type of 'Eff This! I want to play!' which would garner respect. There's also 'this isn't fair, screw you guys I'm taking my ball and going home' that his coaches and teammates and reporters have said - reports made BEFORE signing with us.

How is this so complicated? Dude was butthurt about being benched and not being the guy to go into the playoffs. It is what it is, why try to sugar coat it?

That butthurt made him our new starter and we should be happy about it ... right?
 
Scooter said:
There's the Charles James type of 'Eff This! I want to play!' which would garner respect. There's also 'this isn't fair, screw you guys I'm taking my ball and going home' that his coaches and teammates and reporters have said - reports made BEFORE signing with us.

How is this so complicated? Dude was butthurt about being benched and not being the guy to go into the playoffs. It is what it is, why try to sugar coat it?

That butthurt made him our new starter and we should be happy about it ... right?
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Yes.

And it's not terribly complicated ... unless this is one of those 'ignore scooter cause it's late and he's drinking sideways' kind of things.
 
Mollywhopper said:
Yes.

And it's not terribly complicated ... unless this is one of those 'ignore scooter cause it's late and he's drinking sideways' kind of things.
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little column A - mostly column (ignore drunk scooter) B

But ... there are reports all over the place that directly suggest that Oz was extremely upset at the Broncos organization about his being benched and not starting the playoffs. Not being a 'competitive' issue, but one of an emotional response of feelings of slight and betrayal. Pointing out what should've been obvious, and incredulity that Seegara got one right. These reports are made from multiple locals and outlets, from that moment until today. I've said nothing to their validity, to their relevance ... only that I find attacking a poster for what I thought was a very common report is beneath yall.

Or not, observing posts the past few days that seem to follow more a mob mentality than discussion.

It's been quite impressive the past couple weeks how anyone who says something less than 'SUPERBOWL!!!!' is deemed anti-fan villain.
 
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JB said:
You make it sound like he has all the time in the world back there... have you seen our OL play? Got a stop watch?
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I'm not saying every time. I understand he doesn't have a lot of time in the world every snap, but when he does he needs to scan the field a little better. Just my opinion.
 
jcs1311991 said:
I'm not saying every time. I understand he doesn't have a lot of time in the world every snap, but when he does he needs to scan the field a little better. Just my opinion.
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He's done that several times. Even the broadcaster were praising him for doing that in the last game.
 
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