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Official Brock Osweiler MVP Watch Thread!

ObsiWan said:
But even in practice games you have objectives. I would think (hope like hell) that in our preseason games the coaching staff want to see how certain grouping of players work together; i.e., do we run Shorts or Mumphrey or B. Miller? Which two TEs work best together on running downs vs. passing downs? Which RB will make the best 3rd down back, Ervin? Grimes? Hilliard? You know stuff like that.

Now obviously that's not the "how do we best attack the opposition" type game plan most folk typically think of, but it IS a game plan. So I don't think its correct to say there's NO game plan because it's preseason.
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Exactly. That's what the PS and these games are about. They're not going into it with the mindset of how do we beat the Arizona Cardinals. They're going into it getting their starters game speed reps before the season starts and evaluating talent to put the best 53 on the field by Sept. 11. The only thing remotely regular season about this game is that the names you recognize are on the field longer. That's it.

The game is not the same, the goals are not the same. It's starter reps and roster evaluation just like any other PS game. Except the 4th of course, when the starters don't play.
 
Texian said:
I didn't say they didn't do due diligence maybe it just wasn't as full and complete being they were under direct orders and maybe some duress to find and sign the best QB available.
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:thinking:

I would think they'd be more apt to doing the best evaluation they can. With an edict like that, "Get the best QB available" sounds like they won't get another shot.
 
DBCooper said:
I don't know if this class had a true "franchise" QB.

We will just have to wait and see.
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Then for you, too much is probably right.

For the Rams or the Eagles.... There was no such thing as too much.

Basically, I'm saying anyone who thinks Goff/Wentz will be franchise QBs, you can't come at them with a "too much" argument.
 
thunderkyss said:
Then for you, too much is probably right.

For the Rams or the Eagles.... There was no such thing as too much.

Basically, I'm saying anyone who thinks Goff/Wentz will be franchise QBs, you can't come at them with a "too much" argument.
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Come 2020 Goff and Wentz and the Rams and Eagles are playoff teams and Goff and Wentz are considered the respective QBs for the 10 years or so the price paid will be considered worth it and even considered cheap for the return on the investment. The same can be said about OS if he does the same.
 
Texian said:
Come 2020 Goff and Wentz and the Rams and Eagles are playoff teams and Goff and Wentz are considered the respective QBs for the 10 years or so the price paid will be considered worth it and even considered cheap for the return on the investment. The same can be said about OS if he does the same.
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This is a bold prediction and that's it. You don't what the future holds for those team with Goff and Wentz. There are to many variables to consider and factor in.
 
Texian said:
Come 2020 Goff and Wentz and the Rams and Eagles are playoff teams and Goff and Wentz are considered the respective QBs for the 10 years or so the price paid will be considered worth it and even considered cheap for the return on the investment. The same can be said about OS if he does the same.
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We have to wait until 2020?
 
thunderkyss said:
Then for you, too much is probably right.

For the Rams or the Eagles.... There was no such thing as too much.

Basically, I'm saying anyone who thinks Goff/Wentz will be franchise QBs, you can't come at them with a "too much" argument.
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Well, there is such thing as too much.

How many more spots did we have to move up more than the Rams or the Eagles?

You can't give all your draft picks for years to come even if it's for a Peyton Manning, let alone an unproven rookie.
 
Texian said:
Come 2020 Goff and Wentz and the Rams and Eagles are playoff teams and Goff and Wentz are considered the respective QBs for the 10 years or so the price paid will be considered worth it and even considered cheap for the return on the investment. The same can be said about OS if he does the same.
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The problem that I see in this timeline is the window will be closed on this defense. J.J. is already starting to break down, and with his admission that he's not going to stay in the game until he's completely broken, I don't want to wait until 2020 to see if what we drafted in 2016 works out.

This team has to see the window as the next 2-3 years as far as J.J. being a dominant factor on our defense. Otherwise, they risk doing to his career what they did to Andre Johnson's career.
 
Double Barrel said:
The problem that I see in this timeline is the window will be closed on this defense. J.J. is already starting to break down, and with his admission that he's not going to stay in the game until he's completely broken, I don't want to wait until 2020 to see if what we drafted in 2016 works out.

This team has to see the window as the next 2-3 years as far as J.J. being a dominant factor on our defense. Otherwise, they risk doing to his career what they did to Andre Johnson's career.
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I hope you're right about Watt having 2-3 more yrs.

The 2nd surgery worries me, JJ may never be right again. Example: Shaun Cody back injury.
 
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steelbtexan said:
I hope you're right about Watt having 2-3 more yrs.

The 2nd surgery worries me, JJ may never be right again. Example: Shaun Cody back injury.
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J.J. breaking physically breaking down has always been inevitable. It happens to all of them.

Biggest concern is him playing through things, like having a herniated disc and five torn core muscles. As CnD has pointed out, there is potential for lingering effects and it basically means that we might have already seen J.J.'s peak. I'm not saying that J.J. can't still be a badass, but obviously the concern is reoccurring issues and not being effective 100% of the time.

Father Time is undefeated, so this team has to capitalize now and not worry about next season or the year after.
 
Double Barrel said:
The problem that I see in this timeline is the window will be closed on this defense. J.J. is already starting to break down, and with his admission that he's not going to stay in the game until he's completely broken, I don't want to wait until 2020 to see if what we drafted in 2016 works out.

This team has to see the window as the next 2-3 years as far as J.J. being a dominant factor on our defense. Otherwise, they risk doing to his career what they did to Andre Johnson's career.
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In a way you're making my case. If you think JJ's best years are behind him and he may only have 2 or 3 serviceable years left the 2016 or 2017 drafts is the time to prepare for his replacement. I'm pretty sure that for the most part that Belichick, Thompson, Newsome and Elway use the draft to fill holes not for their current season but for seasons a year or two down the road.
 
DBCooper said:
Well, there is such thing as too much.

How many more spots did we have to move up more than the Rams or the Eagles?

You can't give all your draft picks for years to come even if it's for a Peyton Manning, let alone an unproven rookie.
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Not only that both of those rookies looked bad and one of them is already hurt.
 
Mollywhopper said:
Are you really trying to gauge off of 3 total preseason games?

And speaking of Peyton Manning, did you happen to see his entire rookie season?
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No I'm just saying they weren't playing good.

But what's crazy is people on here gauging Brock's play after the 1st preseason game.

You are stealing my line now. Bwhahaha I used the Colts and Manning rookie year all the time.
 
Texian said:
In a way you're making my case. If you think JJ's best years are behind him and he may only have 2 or 3 serviceable years left the 2016 or 2017 drafts is the time to prepare for his replacement. I'm pretty sure that for the most part that Belichick, Thompson, Newsome and Elway use the draft to fill holes not for their current season but for seasons a year or two down the road.
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Well, the difference with those examples (Belichick, Thompson, Newsome and Elway) is that they already had their QBs, so the filling holes strategy works. Unfortunately for Houston pro football fans, we rarely seem to get a good one, especially considering Schaub is the third best QB this city has seen since 1960.

Maybe betting on Brock is an "all in" strategy for the next 2-3 years, because it takes that long for most rookie QBs to truly mature.
 
Texian said:
In a way you're making my case. If you think JJ's best years are behind him and he may only have 2 or 3 serviceable years left the 2016 or 2017 drafts is the time to prepare for his replacement. I'm pretty sure that for the most part that Belichick, Thompson, Newsome and Elway use the draft to fill holes not for their current season but for seasons a year or two down the road.
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No, he's not even remotely making your case. He's making the case that the Texans had an opportunity that only comes along about once a decade. We traded for a QB with upside in his prime. That just doesn't happen. We had to take the opportunity and go all in for 2016 and 2017, because so much of the rest of the team is ready NOW. The defense is as good as it's ever been and so while we have Watt, Cushing, Joseph, Wilfork, etc all still playing either elite or quality football, we need to swing for the fences.

I really find it hard to believe that you are actually a Texans fan. Cak's theory of your Colts fandom is really all that makes sense. That or the only thing you're a fan of is yourself.
 
Mollywhopper said:
Are you really trying to gauge off of 3 total preseason games?

And speaking of Peyton Manning, did you happen to see his entire rookie season?
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No I'm just saying they weren't playing good.

But what's crazy is people on here gauging Brock's play after the 1st preseason game.

You are stealing my line now. Bwhahaha I used the Colts and Manning rookie year all the time.
Say Watt said:
No, he's not even remotely making your case. He's making the case that the Texans had an opportunity that only comes along about once a decade. We traded for a QB with upside in his prime. That just doesn't happen. We had to take the opportunity and go all in for 2016 and 2017, because so much of the rest of the team is ready NOW. The defense is as good as it's ever been and so while we have Watt, Cushing, Joseph, Wilfork, etc all still playing either elite or quality football, we need to swing for the fences.

I really find it hard to believe that you are actually a Texans fan. Cak's theory of your Colts fandom is really all that makes sense. That or the only thing you're a fan of is yourself.
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Agreed 100%
 
Texian said:
Come 2020 Goff and Wentz and the Rams and Eagles are playoff teams and Goff and Wentz are considered the respective QBs for the 10 years or so the price paid will be considered worth it and even considered cheap for the return on the investment. The same can be said about OS if he does the same.
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How much would you like to wager on that prediction?
 
Texian said:
Those teams that are now planning for 2018 and 2019, 2016 will take care of it self.
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We signed Brock to a 4 year deal. While they are waiting for 2020 we are playing for now and then some. Win now vs waiting. That's a better deal to me when you have Watt in his prime.
 
TexansBull said:
We signed Brock to a 4 year deal. While they are waiting for 2020 we are playing for now and then some. Win now vs waiting. That's a better deal to me when you have Watt in his prime.
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It's baffling to me he doesn't see this. It's why I said what I did. I can come to only two conclusions about him:

1. He's a fan of another team and trolls this board
2. He's only a fan of himself

He seems like an otherwise polite dude, but he's beginning to sound pretty narcissistic to me, so I can't help but this option 2 is the most likely.
 
Say Watt said:
It's baffling to me he doesn't see this. It's why I said what I did. I can come to only two conclusions about him:

1. He's a fan of another team and trolls this board
2. He's only a fan of himself

He seems like an otherwise polite dude, but he's beginning to sound pretty narcissistic to me, so I can't help but this option 2 is the most likely.
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I think he gets paid by the number of reply's in the thread. The only way I can understand the nonsense. Creates ad revenue too. Has to be it...
 
Say Watt said:
No, he's not even remotely making your case. He's making the case that the Texans had an opportunity that only comes along about once a decade. We traded for a QB with upside in his prime. That just doesn't happen. We had to take the opportunity and go all in for 2016 and 2017, because so much of the rest of the team is ready NOW. The defense is as good as it's ever been and so while we have Watt, Cushing, Joseph, Wilfork, etc all still playing either elite or quality football, we need to swing for the fences.

I really find it hard to believe that you are actually a Texans fan. Cak's theory of your Colts fandom is really all that makes sense. That or the only thing you're a fan of is yourself.
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Just chill, you're interpreting a lot stuff that simply was not said or written.
 
Say Watt said:
:spit:

That is certainly as good a theory as I've heard. Lol!
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You should see his other thread on Obrien. Dude is making a killing.

These threads remind me of road trips in the middle of nowhere when you walk into the gas station bathroom really having to go, but seeing **** smeared on the bathroom walls and toilet and the smell can only be from a dead body hidden somewhere. Then you don't have to go and walk out hoping for the next signs of civilization or Buccees.
 
Speedy said:
Exactly. That's what the PS and these games are about. They're not going into it with the mindset of how do we beat the Arizona Cardinals. They're going into it getting their starters game speed reps before the season starts and evaluating talent to put the best 53 on the field by Sept. 11. The only thing remotely regular season about this game is that the names you recognize are on the field longer. That's it.

The game is not the same, the goals are not the same. It's starter reps and roster evaluation just like any other PS game. Except the 4th of course, when the starters don't play.
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Some teams view this differently. Now Coach O'Brien is in agreement with you because he said this game is just like the 1st two preseason games. Stated they will not do anything different and that regular season game are totally different. So you are right.
 
TexansBull said:
You should see his other thread on Obrien. Dude is making a killing.

These threads remind me of road trips in the middle of nowhere when you walk into the gas station bathroom really having to go, but seeing **** smeared on the bathroom walls and toilet and the smell can only be from a dead body hidden somewhere. Then you don't have to go and walk out hoping for the next signs of civilization or Buccees.
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But every once in a while you let curiosity get the best of you and take a peek inside. Next thing you know, you're wishing for the next month you had just kept on ******* driving.
 
Texian said:
Just chill, you're interpreting a lot stuff that simply was not said or written.
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No he's not. You are saying these things and spinning arguments against. To say that Elway is successful at drafting replacement players for players out of their prime to play for the Broncos is ridiculous. If Elway was successful in this they would have had Osweiler playing for them this year and not scrambling for Mark the butt fumble Sanchez and drafting a player out of desperation. Elway wanted Osweiler because they had developed him and confidence in his abilities. Osweiler didn't want them and liked his opportunities with the Texans. Osweiler stopped taking their calls so Elway couldn't counter offer. End of story. End of thread. Good day sir.
 
Say Watt said:
But every once in a while you let curiosity get the best of you and take a peek inside. Next thing you know, you're wishing for the next month you had just kept on ******* driving.
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It's really bad when you can taste the smell because it's so awful.
And I just did it by replying to him. Damnit now I have **** all over me and need a shower.
 
TexansBull said:
No he's not. You are saying these things and spinning arguments against. To say that Elway is successful at drafting replacement players for players out of their prime to play for the Broncos is ridiculous. If Elway was successful in this they would have had Osweiler playing for them this year and not scrambling for Mark the butt fumble Sanchez and drafting a player out of desperation. Elway wanted Osweiler because they had developed him and confidence in his abilities. Osweiler didn't want them and liked his opportunities with the Texans. Osweiler stopped taking their calls so Elway couldn't counter offer. End of story. End of thread. Good day sir.
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feel better?
 
Say Watt said:
I've figured it out. You have 6,466 messages. That's 666. You have 999 likes. Flip those around and you have 666.

I've got it! You're the devil sent to troll us!
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I really hate when people figure me out but I'm really more a man of science.

TexansBull said:
I will give you another chance to respond. That response was weak. You have better stuff than that don't you?
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Nope, that's as good as it gets!
 
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Texian said:
I really hate when people figure me out but I'm really more a man of science.



Nope, that's as good as it gets!
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And here I was waiting for a good response grounded in reality supported by facts so I could deploy the "I said good day sir!" bit, but maybe next time.
 
thunderkyss said:
Nothing's too much for a franchise QB. If you think it's "too much" then you don't think he's a franchise QB.
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I agree, but you can only tell if a QB is a franchise QB in hindsight. You have to have an eye towards the future and gauge the cost in the present. That's why it's so difficult to find a true franchise QB. Every single team in the NFL would've gone all Mike Ditka and gave up their entire draft class for Tom Brady or Joe Montana.

We'll all see who was right and who was wrong over the next few seasons. I won't be mad if we're all right. I won't be mad if I'm wrong. I like the Os signing and will live with the consequences. I also like OB as HC and Mr. McNair as owner. I really have no clue as to how much Smith has to do with anything, so I mostly keep my mouth shut about him.
 
Texian said:
I didn't say they didn't do due diligence maybe it just wasn't as full and complete being they were under direct orders and maybe some duress to find and sign the best QB available.
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Every single article, press conference and interview that has come out about this has shown that the Texans did everything they could, as far as due diligence is concerned, regarding Os. You're sounding like some nut job conspiracy theorist.

Should Smith, OB and the scouting dept. hunt down his Pop Warner coaches? They went all the way back to his high school coach. Watched every snap that he had on film. If the MSM had done half of this due diligence, we wouldn't have Obama in office and Hitlary and Trump as our only two choices for POTUS.
 
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DocBar said:
I agree, but you can only tell if a QB is a franchise QB in hindsight. You have to have an eye towards the future and gauge the cost in the present.
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I understand that, which was why I had so much interest in the QB discussions before the draft. I'd often ask what others would give to trade for them, or how far up they were willing to give. Very few people were all-in for these guys. Some were, the Rams & Philly were.

They obviously believe Wentz /Goff are franchise QBs.

Like you said, we'll see who is right or wrong later.
 
Say Watt said:
But every once in a while you let curiosity get the best of you and take a peek inside. Next thing you know, you're wishing for the next month you had just kept on ******* driving.
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A bit off topic, but that is the beauty of Hawaii. I never experienced a bad bathroom anywhere. Even on the beach the port o pots were clean as can be.
 
steelbtexan said:
Skewed stats, tell me what the defensive stats were after the changes/Miami game were?

The Texans went 3-0 with backup QB's worse than Os, so yes I believe Os could've been atleast 5-2 if he had been on the Texans. Although I dont really understand the comparison you're trying to make.
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I'm not exactly sure what type of fallacy in argument that you're making here; probably this:

Correlation proves causation (post hoc ergo propter hoc) – a faulty assumption that correlation between two variables implies that one causes the other.

You're assuming that Osweiler was a better backup QB than the other.

Those 3 QBs that went 3-0 lack the knowledge/familiarity of the system.
They were put under a more difficult situation than Osweiler on that end alone.
 
Say Watt said:
But every once in a while you let curiosity get the best of you and take a peek inside. Next thing you know, you're wishing for the next month you had just kept on ******* driving.
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When taking a car trip across Texas, we stopped in a town that had the principal grocery store and Ace Hardware in the same building, connected by a short hall. The bathrooms were in that hall. The men's room had some liquid surrounding the toilet so I used the women's room instead and it was a lot better.

Instead of comparing posters to dirty bathrooms, why don't we just admit that there's truth in what they say at least part of the time? Oz is not a franchise QB but the Texans must have thought he was the best they could do.
 
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