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Brock Osweiler agrees to 4 year 72 million

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does Jimbo Fisher even want to come to the pros? He could be very content coaching college I would assume if he was interested somewhat in a pro gig he would at least get mentioned during the offseason coaching hunt like the do with Shaw and others
 
leebigeztx said:
So did Mack Brown, what does it really mean? Spurrier failed and so did Saban,but doesnt mean they dont know nfl talent. Can they coach it? Big difference.

You used recruiting as a tool to know nfl talent which makes no sense. When spurrier was killing the sec at florida, he had tons of players drafted. When he tried to coach in nfl,he failed. Mack Brown has recruited alot of so called nfl talent, doesnt mean he can coach them. Its a totally different dynamic when you are the face of the program in college vs millionaire men. I'm not debating young Wolf, I'm debating Fisher knowing nfl talent. Not only that, good nfl talent. Who was the last pro bowl player from fsu since fisher have been evaluating this nfl player you speak of?
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Winston was just in the pro bowl off the top of my head...
 
Texian said:
You do know that Mack Brown's last year the Longhorns did not have one player drafted and that hadn't happened since 1937 (The primary reason why he was fired). Spurrier quit (he didn't get fired) and forfeited a BIG time salary left on his multi year contract because he said he wasn't allowed to make any personnel decisions during his time in Washington (what have I told you about meddling owners) AND Saban has publicly stated that if the Miami medical staff had cleared Brees and given the OK to sign him, he (Saban) could still be coaching in Miami. Saban said he was fine with Dr. Andrews diagnosis and wanted to sign Brees but wasn't allowed to (remember, what have I told you about meddling owners). Saban was 9-7 his first year. Saban quit, (he didn't get fired) Spurrier and Saban both wanted out because they had no say so in the players on the teams they were coaching. It wasn't the coaches fail, it was the owners.

It's takes on a whole new meaning when you know the rest of the story.
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Spurrier quit and was getting his qb killed because he didn't know any pro pass pro. In fact, he thought he was in Gainesville by having the defense on one end of the field and the offense on the other end.
 
JB said:
Lots of credibility there :rolleyes:
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At first I thought consider the source, it's Bleacher Report (I'm not a fan) BUT after reading the article he does have some valid points and supports his claims with research from Pro Football Focus stats.
 
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battleredready said:
"At first I thought consider the source, it's Bleacher Report BUT after reading the article he does support my agenda..."
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I take it you didn't read the article (to labor intensive or just plain lazy) but would rather rush to judgement to make an arbitrary comment because it doesn't agree with the smoke being blown up your hiney.

Oh isn't this a fun game.
 
leebigeztx said:
So did Mack Brown, what does it really mean? Spurrier failed and so did Saban,but doesnt mean they dont know nfl talent. Can they coach it? Big difference.

You used recruiting as a tool to know nfl talent which makes no sense. When spurrier was killing the sec at florida, he had tons of players drafted. When he tried to coach in nfl,he failed. Mack Brown has recruited alot of so called nfl talent, doesnt mean he can coach them. Its a totally different dynamic when you are the face of the program in college vs millionaire men. I'm not debating young Wolf, I'm debating Fisher knowing nfl talent. Not only that, good nfl talent. Who was the last pro bowl player from fsu since fisher have been evaluating this nfl player you speak of?
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Just this past season: Freeman and Winston. Darby should have made it as a CB also. The pro bowl selection process is a joke.
 
Texian said:
I take it you didn't read the article (to labor intensive or just plain lazy) but would rather rush to judgement to make an arbitrary comment because it doesn't agree with the smoke being blown up your hiney.

Oh isn't this a fun game.
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So you're ready to post articles that are in favor of the Osweiler deal or are anti-Wentz?
 
Mollywhopper said:
So you're ready to post articles that are in favor of the Osweiler deal or are anti-Wentz?
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Did the poor iddy biddy article hurt your feelings?

The truth isn't judgmental. It's just the truth. If you don't like it, there's nothing to be done about it. Truth can't be changed.
 
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Texian said:
At first I thought consider the source, it's Bleacher Report (I'm not a fan) BUT after reading the article he does have some valid points and supports his claims with research from Pro Football Focus stats.
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Eh...
There's a reason the Broncos weren't willing to break the bank to keep him around, even after 39-year-old Peyton Manning retired.
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They have a funny way of defining "weren't willing to break the bank" when Denver offered everything short of $2M what the Texans offered.

It wasn't that they weren't willing, Osweiler just wasn't having it.

In the Week 12 victory over thePatriots that O'Brien is referencing, Osweiler completed just 54.8 percent of his passes, going 23-of-42.
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He misses the point. O'b was pretty clear that it was Osweiler's toughness that impressed him.

I use the example of the New England game. He was being pressured quite a bit and he was taking some really good hits but he was delivering the football and I thought that said a lot about his toughness, his ability to keep his eyes downfield under pressure and deliver the football. It wasn't always complete, but I thought he did a nice job in that game.

So I think that's one of the things we're all looking forward to is working with that type of guy that's a tough guy, a good leader, a good teammate. That's what we're looking forward to.
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Digging into the stats is over analyzing the situation. O'Brien picked Osweiler because he's already demonstrated that the game isn't too big for him. Not just the NFL, but playing against the best teams during a playoff push. We could trade everything away to get Wentz & never get him in a similar situation. Or at least not for years.

$18M/yr too much? Probably so, but it's really not that long ago we were paying kids straight out of college $16M/yr for six years.

For the record, I'd just as soon draft Connor Cook. But I understand most people won't agree with me. & it's clear the Texans don't. That doesn't mean Osweiler is going to be a crappy QB.

His stats from those seven games are just a baseline. He's got a couple of good teachers in Godsey & O'b. He's got what looks to be a pretty good team around him, the makings of a great defense to cover his back.

I think it's going to be hard for him not to be better than Schaub. I understand Schaub put up good numbers for a good stretch there. So to say he'll be better than Schaub is saying a lot. But like I said, we know he's tough as nails, he's got the tools, he's got a good supporting cast & he's got good teachers.

& Indy & Tennessee don't play defense.
 
thunderkyss said:
Digging into the stats is over analyzing the situation. O'Brien picked Osweiler because he's already demonstrated that the game isn't too big for him. Not just the NFL, but playing against the best teams during a playoff push. We could trade everything away to get Wentz & never get him in a similar situation. Or at least not for years.

He misses the point. O'b was pretty clear that it was Osweiler's toughness that impressed him.
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Now we know you didn't watch Carson's last 4 games of the 2014 season. If you had you wouldn't be making these comments or assumptions.

Everybody missed the point on this one including you. Brady had exact same stats in Attempts, Completions and Completion %.
 
thunderkyss said:
I personally don't believe you can project who will be elite, at least not with any accuracy. I look for tier two guys with the right mental make up & hope our staff provide the right environment. Mix it up & see what happens.
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Bane said:
I agree with that philosophy. The draft is always a gamble. I think the signing of Os is much less of one. He's shown me enough in big NFL games to make me think he's got the stuff to be very good eventually. He's got some work to do, he definitely has his flaws, but I think he has the tools to play well for this team.
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From what I've seen from Osweiler thus far, he is the first Texans QB that exudes that "We're going to win this game and I will lead you there" mentality mixed with the God given physical ability. The typical Texans QB may have the measurables but also has the "I hope I can do something to make this team win" mentality personified by Schuab (sans 2011/2012) and "St. Long Hair McGloves" and the rest of Texans QB progeny in between and since has embodied. Sage and Case have the stones to win but lacked the physical tools and would have to play a perfect game every time to get a W over an average NFL team. Osweiler doesn't seem to be that type of guy.

I know people must be thinking I'm drinking the Kool-Aid but with J.J. Watt and key members of the team's health, you can't to feel that this team took a step up in class and stability.
 
Texian said:
Why the Houston Texans Might Be Overrating Brock Osweiler
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...ce=facebook.com?is_shared=true?is_shared=true
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Part of this comes back around to the age-old questions "what is an accurate passer" and "why can't you trust statistics". O'Brien said that Osweiler was an accurate passer, even though not all those passes were completed, and the article thinks that's silly and goes on a tear about completion percentage.

But what IS an accurate passer?

One of the big problems with watching tape and NOT knowing the plays that were actually called and what the actual reads were, is that the guy who looks like he made the mistake, isn't always the guy who made the mistake. Like the piece that John Harris did that showed Os putting the ball where his receiver was supposed to be, leading the receiver to an open spot, and Emmanuel Sanders running halfway across the field after the ball left Os' hand in order to be there. If Sanders hadn't been where he was supposed to be, that looks like bad throw. OB has more insight on who was supposed to do what and who was supposed to be where, and I'll trust him on the accuracy comment.

Another problem is that completion percentage assigns all the blame for a pass not being completed on a QB, without taking context into consideration or drops.

I'm not saying that every pass Os made was right. He made plenty of mistakes. Sometimes he trusts his arm to force things into tight windows. But there were times in the games I've watched where I would have benched Demaryius Thomas. He did not help Os and dropped a ton of easily catchable balls. Emmanuel Sanders and OD were the two guys he could really count on to make a catch for him.

The Texans may be over-rating Osweiler, but other people may be under-rating him. Especially people who are butthurt that he left their team and are trying to convince themselves that they're better without him.
 
Texian said:
Did the poor iddy biddy article hurt your feelings?

The truth isn't judgmental. It's just the truth. If you don't like it, there's nothing to be done about it. Truth can't be changed.
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The truth?

All I see is some observation.
 
Texian said:
Now we know you didn't watch Carson's last 4 games of the 2014 season. If you had you wouldn't be making these comments or assumptions.
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What? Yeah, I missed Carson Wentz standing tall in the pocket of an NFL playoff run.

If we're talking about college play off runs, I'll put Cook & Hogan's Bowl seasons against Wentz for the last three seasons.

They give us a good idea how those kids will handle pressure at the next level, but it's only an idea.

Texian said:
Everybody missed the point on this one including you. Brady had exact same stats in Attempts, Completions and Completion %.
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Yeah, I missed this. What are you saying & what does it mean?
 
Obviously the guy is butt hurt that we are not going to be giving up 3-4 high draft picks to move up and draft Wentz. So he is searching to find anything to support that.

Nobody ....Nobody at this point knows how good or great or mediocre Wentz or any other college QB is going to be in an NFL setting. All anybody has right now is an opinion of what they think they can do.

At least the Texans made a pretty good move to get a starting QB. How will he do, we do not know, but he has NFL experience, the game is not too big for him, he seems to be able to handle the pressure of playing against playoff caliber teams - something we have not had here. Will he have bad games, sure, but so do Brady and Rogers and every other QB.

Os is ours now, a Texan. We need to get behind him and support him and quit bitching about being butt hurt. At least until - if he shows a "Hoyer" side then you can post a large "I told you so".
 
thunderkyss said:
Yeah, I missed this. What are you saying & what does it mean?
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My opinion on the article: First consider the source, it's Bleacher Report. There are some valid points made that are supported by research from Pro Football Focus that are worthy of some discussion. While the author knocks Osweiller's 54% completion there is nary a mention that Brady has the exact same stats. This suggest to me that the article reads as though the author is not a fan of Osweiller and me thinks the author could be a closet Bronco fan or has some other underlying reason for writing this article and for showing his disdain for Osweiller.
 
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Texian said:
Jimbo Fisher knows how to win more football games than most everyone else. On top of that he always has a top 5 recruiting class so he has an elite eye for talent. In addition he wants great coaches on his staff not his friends. Sometimes you've to think outside the box and stop doing the same things over and over again expecting different results. Jimbo Fisher is Jimmy Johnson.

Eliot Wolf has been carousing an NFL football field as a young boy. As a young boy Wolf has been learning and was taught by his HOF GM Dad. Today his education continues under Ted Thompson one of the very best in the business. Green Bay thinks so much of Wolf they just last week promoted him to Director of Football Operations.

Sadly, folks like Fisher and Wolf will never come to a franchise like Houston Texans because of consistent owner meddling. Folks like Fisher and Wolf can pick and choose where they want to go and avoid places that have illustrated regular owner interference. That is why the Texans have O'Brien and Smith, they're just happy to be here. Unlike Fisher and Wolf, O'Brien and Smith do not have a proven record nor a pick and choose resume. Folks like Wolf and DeCosta are content to wait their turn at GB and BAL because they know they won't have to make other peoples (McNair's) mistakes.
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My question is why would Fisher leave Florida State? He has been on the staff of two college power houses with very long and storied histories. He has the advantage of recruiting in one of the most football talented states in the country, Florida. Kids come there because they see a path to the pros. It's not like HE put FSU on the map. Bowden did that ages ago. I just think, like his mentor, Bowden, Fisher won't leave FSU.
 
What I like about Os is in the Cincy game after playing just OK thru 3 qters he turned it around in the 4th and lead his team back to an OT win. Staubach used to have games like that all of the time. Os is a guy who gets better with the game on the line. Atleast in this small sample size. I'm not saying Os is the next Staubach.

Os should've been 6-1 if Kubiak wouldn't have gotten ll conservative in the 2nd half against the Steelers. Like we've seen Kubiak do so many times before.

Good times are ahead if the Texans can nail this draft.
 
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ObsiWan said:
My question is why would Fisher leave Florida State? He has been on the staff of two college power houses with very long and storied histories. He has the advantage of recruiting in one of the most football talented states in the country, Florida. Kids come there because they see a path to the pros. It's not like HE put FSU on the map. Bowden did that ages ago. I just think, like his mentor, Bowden, Fisher won't leave FSU.
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I don't know if Fisher would leave FSU. Rumor is he flirted with LSU this year, maybe it was an SEC thing. It wasn't until Fisher announced he was all in and happy at FSU that LSU belatedly announced that Les Miles was there guy. However, none of this would preclude me from making an all out effort and promising him everything he wanted to try and sign him though. This would likely mean Bob and Cal moving offices to the other side of the building, staying only involved with league affairs and away from all football operations. They would also have to create a league liaison position for Rick and I'm 99.9% sure that none of this would happen. McNair is not going to give up the control panel and joy stick to his Madden game of real live football. To answer your question directly, as is often the case, successful elite college coaches often appear to get the itch to try their trade at the highest level.
 
Texian said:
Would I prefer to lock in a chance at signing a QB today who could possibly become Matt Schaub OR would I prefer to WAIT and try to trade up at a chance to draft a QB who could become Andrew Luck, Aaron Rodgers or Tom Brady? Put me down for the latter.
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What are you going to do if Wentz and/or Goff ends up as a bust? You seem overly confident that they will be superstars in the NFL.

How can you be so certain that Os' upside equates to Schaub when he clearly has more physical tools than Schaub? Schaub had two major weaknesses: limited arm and not particularly athletic. Os has both in spades.
 
ObsiWan said:
My question is why would Fisher leave Florida State? He has been on the staff of two college power houses with very long and storied histories. He has the advantage of recruiting in one of the most football talented states in the country, Florida. Kids come there because they see a path to the pros. It's not like HE put FSU on the map. Bowden did that ages ago. I just think, like his mentor, Bowden, Fisher won't leave FSU.
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I don't think he'd leave FSU for another university, but some reasons he may leave:

His son has a medical condition in which he may be closer to better or equal care somewhere else.

He just got divorced as his ex cheated on him. So family structure in Tallahassee is broken.

Tallahassee can be quiet boring.

A chance at the NFL.

He may end up with a team he doesn't like or can't control (Urban Meyer, anyone?)
 
Texian said:
Why the Houston Texans Might Be Overrating Brock Osweiler
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...ce=facebook.com?is_shared=true?is_shared=true
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Interesting article. There is certainly some merit in looking at cold, hard facts in analysis. Like The Pencil Neck mentioned, this often comes with a blind spot of putting too little or too much blame on one position in a team sport without the benefit of understanding play calls and player assignments, but the stats are certainly worth pondering and considering in a bigger picture analysis.

This kind of statistical analysis often reminds me of religions, where different denominations can look at the same source material but arrive at different conclusions. The Texans (and the Broncos with their offer) front offices saw those stats and thought there was enough there to make substantial, long-term offers. I can respect that. You have to take chances and gamble on the unknown in this league. As Frank Zappa once said, "Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible".

But, then another angle looks at those same stats/results and arrives at a different conclusion, as detailed in that article. It should not be disregarded because it does not align with the Texans decisions or fan hopes, but it should also be kept in perspective and not become its own type of gospel truth.

Obviously time will tell which perspective is the correct one.

Personally, I do not think this team is built to be put all on the shoulders of the QB. With a top 10 caliber defense, and what is expected to be a solid, consistent run game, the Texans do not need a superhero QB. At this point, they need someone that can manage to move the ball and protect it from turnovers. If Brock can be more than that, great. But, he does not need to be a Superman right now, and that type of realistic goal and expectations is achievable based on what we've seen from him so far.
 
Grams said:
Obviously the guy is butt hurt that we are not going to be giving up 3-4 high draft picks to move up and draft Wentz. So he is searching to find anything to support that.

Nobody ....Nobody at this point knows how good or great or mediocre Wentz or any other college QB is going to be in an NFL setting. All anybody has right now is an opinion of what they think they can do.

At least the Texans made a pretty good move to get a starting QB. How will he do, we do not know, but he has NFL experience, the game is not too big for him, he seems to be able to handle the pressure of playing against playoff caliber teams - something we have not had here. Will he have bad games, sure, but so do Brady and Rogers and every other QB.

Os is ours now, a Texan. We need to get behind him and support him and quit bitching about being butt hurt. At least until - if he shows a "Hoyer" side then you can post a large "I told you so".
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So funny!

On multi levels
 
Double Barrel said:
Personally, I do not think this team is built to be put all on the shoulders of the QB. With a top 10 caliber defense, and what is expected to be a solid, consistent run game, the Texans do not need a superhero QB. At this point, they need someone that can manage to move the ball and protect it from turnovers. If Brock can be more than that, great. But, he does not need to be a Superman right now, and that type of realistic goal and expectations is achievable based on what we've seen from him so far.
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Pretty much this. The thing is once you reach the playoffs, you've got to be really good and make great plays down the stretch of those intense games. That is usually where the QB position comes into play more than any part of the season. You rarely ever see a team blow out a few teams throughout the entire post season. Eventually QB's will be forced into moments where they have to become big time. Hopefully Brock can gain some early momentum, and start embracing those moments when they come like the Tom, Ben, Brees, and Rodgers all have over the years. A big reason why those QB's all have rings is because they had enough of those moments where they became big time for their teams in the post season throughout their careers and were able to win it all. Flacco went into a freakish zone as well that one year, and without it that team had no chance. Oz would likely have more potential to become a Flacco like Qb to me based on what I've seen so I think he'll really need those moving pieces around him even more so. If he can become the better version of what we've seen from Flacco over the years, that wouldn't be bad at all.
 
Texian said:
Did the poor iddy biddy article hurt your feelings?

The truth isn't judgmental. It's just the truth. If you don't like it, there's nothing to be done about it. Truth can't be changed.
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Wow man. I've just had enough of this dope that thinks he knows and everybody else are idiots. You guys have whatever respect you want for whatever it is he brings to the table, I just don't see it. The guy can't get his head out of his ass with these QBs. He's a guy with opinions who gets butthurt when people don't agree with him. Ignore it is.
 
Double Barrel said:
Personally, I do not think this team is built to be put all on the shoulders of the QB. With a top 10 caliber defense, and what is expected to be a solid, consistent run game, the Texans do not need a superhero QB. At this point, they need someone that can manage to move the ball and protect it from turnovers. If Brock can be more than that, great. But, he does not need to be a Superman right now, and that type of realistic goal and expectations is achievable based on what we've seen from him so far.
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Isn't this the formula NE used before Tom Brady became Tom Brady GOAT? Brady was more of a game manager type in his early years.
 
DocBar said:
What are you going to do if Wentz and/or Goff ends up as a bust? You seem overly confident that they will be superstars in the NFL.

How can you be so certain that Os' upside equates to Schaub when he clearly has more physical tools than Schaub? Schaub had two major weaknesses: limited arm and not particularly athletic. Os has both in spades.
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The same thing you're going to do if Brock turns out to be Hoyer 2.0 but at a much cheaper price. What Schaub lacked he made up for in accuracy and ability to read the defense.
 
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Double Barrel said:
This kind of statistical analysis often reminds me of religions, where different denominations can look at the same source material but arrive at different conclusions. The Texans (and the Broncos with their offer) front offices saw those stats and thought there was enough there to make substantial, long-term offers. I can respect that. You have to take chances and gamble on the unknown in this league. As Frank Zappa once said, "Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible".

But, then another angle looks at those same stats/results and arrives at a different conclusion, as detailed in that article. It should not be disregarded because it does not align with the Texans decisions or fan hopes, but it should also be kept in perspective and not become its own type of gospel truth.

Obviously time will tell which perspective is the correct one.

Personally, I do not think this team is built to be put all on the shoulders of the QB. With a top 10 caliber defense, and what is expected to be a solid, consistent run game, the Texans do not need a superhero QB. At this point, they need someone that can manage to move the ball and protect it from turnovers. If Brock can be more than that, great. But, he does not need to be a Superman right now, and that type of realistic goal and expectations is achievable based on what we've seen from him so far.
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Like unicorns & shut down cbs, superhero qb's only exist in the minds of fans...& that's mainly the issue. Too much happens throughout the course of a game for 1 guy to be chiefly responsible for the results. People often times don't really want to drill down to see things as they are b/c it doesn't fit their schema. Case & point, Big Ben was mentioned in Texecutioner's post as 1 of the qbs that embraces those moments as a clutch performer in the playoffs............Instead of say an Eli Manning even though from a numbers standpoint, Eli has either been as good or better than Ben in everything....including clutchness. The difference is only in how you perceive it. For Ben's SB drive it's "wow what a great drive & final throw by Ben to lead his team to victory".........whereas for Eli's it's "what a ridiculous catch by Tyree.." b/c folks don't consider eli on the same level............ even though both had ridiculous catches in them that made the play/drive a success.

As far as Oz, I'm not sure it's an at this moment type thing..as opposed to an "at a minimum" type thing b/c whether folks want to admit it or not, we had the bolded for the most part with Hoyer & co last year & we were able to get to the playoffs with it. For the money they're paying Oz, he's got to be more than that.
 
Speedy said:
Wow man. I've just had enough of this dope that thinks he knows and everybody else are idiots. You guys have whatever respect you want for whatever it is he brings to the table, I just don't see it. The guy can't get his head out of his ass with these QBs. He's a guy with opinions who gets butthurt when people don't agree with him. Ignore it is.
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HHMMMM....This certainly appears and reads just like a butt hurt post to me. May be your the one with the butt hurt. Try you a little Preparation H, ice up and good luck with that.
 
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Speedy said:
Wow man. I've just had enough of this dope that thinks he knows and everybody else are idiots. You guys have whatever respect you want for whatever it is he brings to the table, I just don't see it. The guy can't get his head out of his ass with these QBs. He's a guy with opinions who gets butthurt when people don't agree with him. Ignore it is.
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He was the 2nd person I ignored personally with Lord Bill being the first. I only have 2 people on my ignore list. :p
 
Texian said:
The same thing you're going to do if Brock turns out to be Hoyer 2.0 but at a much cheaper price. What Schaub lacked he made up for in accuracy and ability to read the defense.
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Trading up is more expensive in terms of high draft picks. If Wentz or Goff fail, we've more than likely burned 3 1st rounders. That's a steep price in its own right.

Signing BO allows us to add 3 first rd picks to the squad, at the end of 2yrs, if BO isn't the guy we should have a stronger squad for the next guy since they'll be 2 additional 1st rd talents on the squad.

To date, I can't think of a team that trading multiple first rounders for a single player that worked out well for the team trading up.

Julio Jones is the closets, and he is a stud, but Atl has been crappy the past several years
 
otisbean said:
Trading up is more expensive in terms of high draft picks. If Wentz or Goff fail, we've more than likely burned 3 1st rounders. That's a steep price in its own right.

Signing BO allows us to add 3 first rd picks to the squad, at the end of 2yrs, if BO isn't the guy we should have a stronger squad for the next guy since they'll be 2 additional 1st rd talents on the squad.

To date, I can't think of a team that trading multiple first rounders for a single player that worked out well for the team trading up.

Julio Jones is the closets, and he is a stud, but Atl has been crappy the past several years
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It is usually never worth it unless it's someone who seems like a surefire franchise QB. Any other position, it's not worth it. If someone like BO is available and can be signed (which we did), banking on draft picks is DEFINITELY never worth it.
 
Texian said:
The same you're going to do if Brock turns out to be Hoyer 2.0 but at a much cheaper price. What Schaub laked he made up for in accuracy and ability to read the defense.
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Schaub, with a stronger arm might have a much better TD:INT ratio.

I fail to see how a "king's ransom in draft picks" is much cheaper than $37 mil to see what Os brings to the table. There's a $155 million dollar cap and only 7 or so draft picks a year (less if you go trading them away and likely quite a few less trading up to the top four or 5). Your math is way off on this subject.
 
otisbean said:
Trading up is more expensive in terms of high draft picks. If Wentz or Goff fail, we've more than likely burned 3 1st rounders. That's a steep price in its own right.

Signing BO allows us to add 3 first rd picks to the squad, at the end of 2yrs, if BO isn't the guy we should have a stronger squad for the next guy since they'll be 2 additional 1st rd talents on the squad.

To date, I can't think of a team that trading multiple first rounders for a single player that worked out well for the team trading up.

Julio Jones is the closets, and he is a stud, but Atl has been crappy the past several years
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In this situation I think you need a trade up for a QB for a true apples to apples comparison, Julio and Derrick Harvey are good illustration of what it cost to trade up from the 20s to the Top 10.

The nearest trade up for a QB that I remember is BAL trading up 8 spots with Houston to draft Flacco.

No doubt trading up costs more in draft picks, I agree, but it costs less in cap dollars and you get a much higher ceiling in the risk/reward.

If you don't rush to sign and overpay Osweiller and you can't trade up for Goff or Wentz, you take Lynch or Cook for $9MM for 4 years and quite possibly no worse off maybe even better off than signing Osweiller.

Taking a chance on Goff or Wentz is trying to do what's best to make your team the best it can be.
 
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Eh, I'd much rather cut a deal for a guy with potential that already has some experience in the NFL than go trading away years worth of picks and still overpaying for some guy who hasn't played a down in the NFL.................who is just as likely to not pan out.
 
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Texian said:
In this situation I think you need a trade up for a QB for a true apples to apples comparison, Julio and Derrick Harvey are good illustration of what it cost to trade up from the 20s to the Top 10.

The nearest trade up for a QB that I remember is BAL trading up 8 spots with Houston to draft Flacco.

No doubt trading up costs more in draft picks, I agree, but it costs less in cap dollars and you get a much higher ceiling in the risk/reward.

If you don't rush to sign and overpay Osweiller and you can't trade up for Goff or Wentz, you take Lynch or Cook for $9MM for 4 years and quite possibly no worse off maybe even better off than signing Osweiller.

Taking a chance on Goff or Wentz is trying to do what's best to make your team the best it can be.
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depends honestly. The margin for error is slim with moves like that. You're assuming that the qb you move up to get winds up being the truth. The more likely scenario is he winds up as a ryan tannehill type...just mediocore. In that instance, you not only don't get the higher ceiling, you've cut yourself off at the knees for the next couple of years in developing a nice young core. It all looks great on paper until it doesn't work.
 
Mr teX said:
Eh, I'd much rather cut a deal for a guy with potential that already has some experience in the NFL than go trading away years worth of picks and still overpaying for some guy who hasn't played a down in the NFL.................who is just as likely to not pan out.
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I agree. Wentz and Goff are both thought of as potential franchise QBs. There are one or two guys in every single draft that are considered at that level. Very few of them ever fulfill that potentual. Neither, as far as I can tell, has been talked about as a can't miss type like Luck or Peyton were considered to be. Trading up to get either of them is just as likely to put us in Redskins hell as it is to get ourselves the next HOF level QB. Being bold is all well and good unless it goes the other way and is later looked back upon as simply being foolish.
 
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otisbean said:
Trading up is more expensive in terms of high draft picks. If Wentz or Goff fail, we've more than likely burned 3 1st rounders. That's a steep price in its own right.
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That is true.

What I don't get is all the "Goff or Wentz" talk. As if either would do. I have to think that an NFL coach or GM would be looking at one or the other.

They are totally different from one another, so much that I can't see a coach saying either would excel in his particular offense.
 
Mr teX said:
Eh, I'd much rather cut a deal for a guy with potential that already has some experience in the NFL than go trading away years worth of picks and still overpaying for some guy who hasn't played a down in the NFL.................who is just as likely to not pan out.
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Remember those stats we were tossing around a month or so ago, showing the likelihood of winning a Super Bowl based on where a QB was drafted?

Where do you think a 2nd rounder not with the team that drafted him would shake out?
 
thunderkyss said:
Remember those stats we were tossing around a month or so ago, showing the likelihood of winning a Super Bowl based on where a QB was drafted?

Where do you think a 2nd rounder not with the team that drafted him would shake out?
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Worked out pretty well for the Saints a few years back.
 
thunderkyss said:
That is true.

What I don't get is all the "Goff or Wentz" talk. As if either would do. I have to think that an NFL coach or GM would be looking at one or the other.

They are totally different from one another, so much that I can't see a coach saying either would excel in his particular offense.
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Were Elway, Manning and Schaub all similar? Bledsoe, Brady and Garropolo? Think the systems need good more than they need a specific type.
 
infantrycak said:
Were Elway, Manning and Schaub all similar? Bledsoe, Brady and Garropolo? Think the systems need good more than they need a specific type.
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Bledsoe & Brady weren't really that different. But yeah, if you give a Kubiak, Hue Jackson whatever, they could make a successful QB out of him. I just don't see those guys being 1 & 2 on the same teams board.

I could see Kubiak/Elway with Wentz as their #1, but then it would be someone like Prescott, Driskel, & Hogan.

Hue Jackson might have Goff as his #1, but then Lynch, Brissett, & Sudfeld.

I just find it odd is all. We've got a thread where we're debating which WR is a better fit for our team. We know some DEs would work better in our 3-4 than Wade's, or in a 4-3. We need a particular type of Safety, a particular type of LB.

But any "good" QB will do.
 
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