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What Mallett brings as a (full-time) Starter
- Thread starter sandman
- Start date
Nitrofish
Let The Big Fish Eat!
So much for your career as a fortune teller.
I get that you guys are upset, but the absurdity of these comments are beyond ridiculous. Your comments are like those heard on sports talk radio. Get a grip on your emotions already.
speedfreek
All Pro
This team isn't going to beat indy with Mallet. Probably won't do much better with Hoyer.
I just don't understand why we paid Hoyer so much money when it's going to be
Mallet no matter what!
(that is until we can draft Hackenberg in the first round of course..)
I just don't understand why we paid Hoyer so much money when it's going to be
Mallet no matter what!
(that is until we can draft Hackenberg in the first round of course..)
EllisUnit
Vote RED!!!
I'm just sick of mallett having a clean pocket able to step into his throws (LOOKING LIKE HE'S ABOUT TO CHUNK IT DEEP) and throwing a 2 yard pass to a guy who has 2 LBs all over him, and then looking dissapointed we didnt get a irst down. Well no **** we didn't get a first down gilligan.
TexansBull
Hall of Fame
I am starting to subscribe to the theory that every third year use your first round pick on a QB. The rookie has two years to prove it, and if it is a jake locker situation you draft another one to sit a year and watch and then start him the next year. Repeat process until you have the QB. Worst case scenario you turn out like the Browns - which we are already there. Best case scenario you are the Chargers with Brees and Rivers on the same roster.
And don't give me the BPA. When you dumb and dumber running the draft and not hitting on a draft pick after the first round it's not like that's working out.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
They've done pretty well in the first round .... Its rounds 2-4 where they suck. But otherwise I cant argue with the post ..... turn over every damn rock in your search for a QB.
Now I know how the Jags felt when Bortles was stinking it up last year.
I could not agree more but this coaching staff/braintrust/upper management did not even think Keenum was worth bringing to training camp. That made me really wonder about their decision making qualities.
FuzzyLogic
Mathematically Possible
Well we have never tried picking a QB in the 3rd round - none of our other 3rd picks work out very well. QB in the 3rd could be the sweet spot.
Has a team every tried the method being mentioned? You draft a QB every year in the 1st or 2nd until you find that guy?
How much does that actually undermine your ability to build a team through the draft, do you have to be a player in free agency every year to fill a hole or two?
Personally I think every year might be a bit to much... how would you manage or know what you had? After just two years you would be in the position of needing to let one of your guys go for the new guy coming in (stashing a promising QB on the practice squad seems to big of a risk).
If you were GM what would you do?
Me I draft a first round QB every other year, unless the talent isn't there, then I draft a QB in the second on those years. I would do this until I found my guy - and my guy wouldn't have to be all world, top 15 would slow my QB search down to only drafting a solid backup with potential to really break out. If I get the chance to draft a guy everyone agrees could be elite (top 5) I risk it. I would value the QB position that much.
With how most drafts have gone / do go, I really don't see the risk with trying the above. I understand it is a team game and you need other positions but with rule changes and the direction the NFL is going QB is currently the most needed position to play at an above average level. And you should be able to make up for the lost draft picks through mid priced free agents which would be slightly more expensive than a rookie contract but not to much of a difference (?).
Another key piece of this is you can't have the "Colin Kaepernick" experience... until you are sure he is THE GUY, do NOT give them a huge contract. Prove it to me, play out your rookie deal and then we will talk!
So I am crazy, or should I start applying for GM jobs?
Has a team every tried the method being mentioned? You draft a QB every year in the 1st or 2nd until you find that guy?
How much does that actually undermine your ability to build a team through the draft, do you have to be a player in free agency every year to fill a hole or two?
Personally I think every year might be a bit to much... how would you manage or know what you had? After just two years you would be in the position of needing to let one of your guys go for the new guy coming in (stashing a promising QB on the practice squad seems to big of a risk).
If you were GM what would you do?
Me I draft a first round QB every other year, unless the talent isn't there, then I draft a QB in the second on those years. I would do this until I found my guy - and my guy wouldn't have to be all world, top 15 would slow my QB search down to only drafting a solid backup with potential to really break out. If I get the chance to draft a guy everyone agrees could be elite (top 5) I risk it. I would value the QB position that much.
With how most drafts have gone / do go, I really don't see the risk with trying the above. I understand it is a team game and you need other positions but with rule changes and the direction the NFL is going QB is currently the most needed position to play at an above average level. And you should be able to make up for the lost draft picks through mid priced free agents which would be slightly more expensive than a rookie contract but not to much of a difference (?).
Another key piece of this is you can't have the "Colin Kaepernick" experience... until you are sure he is THE GUY, do NOT give them a huge contract. Prove it to me, play out your rookie deal and then we will talk!
So I am crazy, or should I start applying for GM jobs?
You can't just draft a QB in the first round every year.
- First it assumes there just is one you'll take whether you like him or not.
- Second, if you take one and his rookie year goes ok but not great, what do you do then? Play him his second season and have a new first rounder rookie QB on the bench?
- Then the next year the first guy maybe regresses a bit and the second guy plays now in his second year and does ok but not great, time for another? Where does the first one go?
Oh ya, you now have a completely atrophied roster. That's just not how it works.
- First it assumes there just is one you'll take whether you like him or not.
- Second, if you take one and his rookie year goes ok but not great, what do you do then? Play him his second season and have a new first rounder rookie QB on the bench?
- Then the next year the first guy maybe regresses a bit and the second guy plays now in his second year and does ok but not great, time for another? Where does the first one go?
Oh ya, you now have a completely atrophied roster. That's just not how it works.
HJam72
Hall of Fame
Well we have never tried picking a QB in the 3rd round - none of our other 3rd picks work out very well. QB in the 3rd could be the sweet spot.
Has a team every tried the method being mentioned? You draft a QB every year in the 1st or 2nd until you find that guy?
How much does that actually undermine your ability to build a team through the draft, do you have to be a player in free agency every year to fill a hole or two?
Personally I think every year might be a bit to much... how would you manage or know what you had? After just two years you would be in the position of needing to let one of your guys go for the new guy coming in (stashing a promising QB on the practice squad seems to big of a risk).
If you were GM what would you do?
Me I draft a first round QB every other year, unless the talent isn't there, then I draft a QB in the second on those years. I would do this until I found my guy - and my guy wouldn't have to be all world, top 15 would slow my QB search down to only drafting a solid backup with potential to really break out. If I get the chance to draft a guy everyone agrees could be elite (top 5) I risk it. I would value the QB position that much.
With how most drafts have gone / do go, I really don't see the risk with trying the above. I understand it is a team game and you need other positions but with rule changes and the direction the NFL is going QB is currently the most needed position to play at an above average level. And you should be able to make up for the lost draft picks through mid priced free agents which would be slightly more expensive than a rookie contract but not to much of a difference (?).
Another key piece of this is you can't have the "Colin Kaepernick" experience... until you are sure he is THE GUY, do NOT give them a huge contract. Prove it to me, play out your rookie deal and then we will talk!
So I am crazy, or should I start applying for GM jobs?
I'm all for it. You're not going to do jack without a QB. The best teams don't do this, I know. That's because they already have a franchise QB.
FuzzyLogic
Mathematically Possible
Not sure if you were responding to me or someone else, but I believe I said I wouldn't draft one every year as it would lead to exactly what you said, I mentioned every two years to try and manage the rest of the roster + give time to evaluate the guys you do have.
If not every other year, then what time table? How many years do you go between trying to find your QB for the future? 3, 4 years?
Some other teams have tried the 3 or 4 year method and it hasn't gone very well (Jags) they draft a guy give him a substantial amount of time (3 or 4 years starting in this league is a long time) then they start over. Seems a lot of wasted effort.
I was responding just to the general idea with no real target in mind.
And there's no time table. It's a more fluid development and evaluation than some hard cutoff.
The solution is simply to identify the guy and develop him. Then know when to bail when you find his ceiling unacceptable and go again. Build your roster in the meantime and hope that you have a little luck on your side that your time to do this is when there's a Rodgers or Brady out there instead of a Dalton or Newton.
No thanks to Kaepernick.
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
Kaepernick sucks. He looked good initially with Harbaugh pulling the strings but now teams have 3 years of film on him and know his tendencies. Also, the new SF coaching staff is too incompetent to game plan around his deficiencies.
While OB & Rick were too busy not addressing our QB situation, they did inquire about acquiring Kaepernick & Manning. It had never been reported, but I wouldn't put it past them to have inquired about Rivers as well.
Sonny
TexSon Proud
I'd rather have Colin I think and I'm not sure what that deal would cost us but I think Rivers would cost us a pile more, and has less upside imo. Colin can be scary good. He's just not happy in S.F.
Manning is pretty much done.
I'd rather pay through the nose for Rivers than waste time on Kaepernick for peanuts.
One is a legit NFL quarterback, the other is an immature mess of mixed talents.
One is a legit NFL quarterback, the other is an immature mess of mixed talents.
FuzzyLogic
Mathematically Possible
I mentioned Kaepernick.... as a what NOT to do.
Sonny
TexSon Proud
After leading the San Francisco 49ers to consecutive NFC championship games and one Super Bowl, Colin Kaepernick was rewarded with a "record" seven-year, $126 million contract.
But after Kaepernick's nightmare season we are already seeing that the contract is not nearly as big as everybody made it out to be, and he could receive as little as $25.9 million.
The contract, signed last summer, gave Kaepernick a $12.3 million signing bonus and a 2014 salary of just $645,000.
Kaepernick was supposed to get his first large salary ($12.4 million) in the 2015 season. But because of the way the contract was worded, that salary is actually going to go down to $10.4 million.
Starting next season, Kaepernick's salary goes down $2 million each year if he is not named first- or second-team All-Pro, or if the 49ers don't play in the Super Bowl the previous season with 80% of the snaps taken by Kaepernick, according to Mike Florio of ProFootballTalk.com.
The 49ers have been eliminated from playoff contention, and Kaepernick ranks 22nd in quarterback rating, which means the de-escalator is going to kick in.
In addition, while many outlets were reporting that Kaepernick's deal included a record $61 million in "guaranteed" money, it turns out the money was guaranteed only for injury. Each year of the contract, the 49ers can decide to cut Kaepernick before April 1 and will not owe him any more money.
Getty ImagesColin Kaepernick's guaranteed money is guaranteed only if he gets hurt.
Kaepernick is almost certainly going to be the 49ers' quarterback in 2015. But if he has another disastrous season next year, the 49ers could potentially cut him before the 2016 season. All of a sudden, Kaepernick's deal would be for just two years and worth $25.9 million.
That's not bad. But it is a far cry from seven years and $126 million with $61 million guaranteed.
--#-#-#-#-#-#-
The above is why he's not happy and I agree that the s.f. staff can't get the best out of him but (and I'm just guessing and going by what I was originally sold here but...) OB1 would be able to make that happen.
But after Kaepernick's nightmare season we are already seeing that the contract is not nearly as big as everybody made it out to be, and he could receive as little as $25.9 million.
The contract, signed last summer, gave Kaepernick a $12.3 million signing bonus and a 2014 salary of just $645,000.
Kaepernick was supposed to get his first large salary ($12.4 million) in the 2015 season. But because of the way the contract was worded, that salary is actually going to go down to $10.4 million.
Starting next season, Kaepernick's salary goes down $2 million each year if he is not named first- or second-team All-Pro, or if the 49ers don't play in the Super Bowl the previous season with 80% of the snaps taken by Kaepernick, according to Mike Florio of ProFootballTalk.com.
The 49ers have been eliminated from playoff contention, and Kaepernick ranks 22nd in quarterback rating, which means the de-escalator is going to kick in.
In addition, while many outlets were reporting that Kaepernick's deal included a record $61 million in "guaranteed" money, it turns out the money was guaranteed only for injury. Each year of the contract, the 49ers can decide to cut Kaepernick before April 1 and will not owe him any more money.
Getty ImagesColin Kaepernick's guaranteed money is guaranteed only if he gets hurt.
Kaepernick is almost certainly going to be the 49ers' quarterback in 2015. But if he has another disastrous season next year, the 49ers could potentially cut him before the 2016 season. All of a sudden, Kaepernick's deal would be for just two years and worth $25.9 million.
That's not bad. But it is a far cry from seven years and $126 million with $61 million guaranteed.
--#-#-#-#-#-#-
The above is why he's not happy and I agree that the s.f. staff can't get the best out of him but (and I'm just guessing and going by what I was originally sold here but...) OB1 would be able to make that happen.
HOU-TEX
Ah, Football!
Jeff George?
I am starting to think that is what is going to happen. O'Brien sold the Texans on a five year plan (theory, not fact), and he's been treading water with backup quarterbacks until he gets a chance at "his guy" as many have been promoting as the way to operate. The problem will be if he decided on "his guy" last year, and is going to burn his first rounder on Hackenberg. That's fine if they do their due diligence and Hackenberg seems to be the correct choice. After watching the Hoyer/Mallett competition though, I'm afraid the winner of an unbiased evaluation, whoever that might be, will lose out to "his guy".
TejasTom
All Pro
HJam72
Hall of Fame
Random thoughts:The Browns?
There has to be a way to get a good QB. Does McNair need to pay somebody just to choose a QB for him? Maybe he pays Troy Aikman and gives him 4 years to find somebody? What? There has to be some way. Is that the same Weeden that is not so terrible with the Cowboys right now (not great, though)? Delhomme? He was good at one time. Maybe all those QBs just had a few really bad coaches... Maybe Hoyer and Mallett both need a new coach.
Do you have to intentionally go 2-14 on a year when you could have gone 12-4?
Hey, wasn't that Couch guy supposed to be good (JustKiddin')?
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
Every year, several QBs come out.
You just have to:
1) Be lucky enough so that your suckage corresponds to when a good one happens to come out (like the Colts have been)
2) Be lucky enough to grab one later on in the draft (like the Seahawks, Patriots)
3) Be good enough that you're able to develop one and put him in the correct position to be successful (like the Steelers and Patriots did.)
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Then we'd still have the "bullet" problems by a guy who seemed to have taken a bullet to the head himself.
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
It ain't easy, I tell you that. Just look at all the QBs drafted since the Texans have been in the league.
2002
1 - Carr, Harrington, Ramsey
3 - J. McCown
4 - Garrard, Davey
5 - Fasani, Kittner, Doman, Nall
6 - O'Sullivan
7 - Burford, Kelly, Curry, Pate
2003
1 - Palmer, Leftwich, Boller, Grossman
3 - Ragone, Simms
4 - Wallace
5 - St. Pierre
6 - Henson, Bollinger, Kingsbury
7 - Hamden, Dorsey
2004
1 - Manning, Rivers, Roethlisberger, Losman
3 - Schaub
4 - L. McCown
5 - Krenzel
6 - Hall, Harris, Sorgi, Smoker
7 - Navarre, Pickett, Bramlet, Mauck, Symons, Van Pelt
2005
1 - A. Smith, Rodgers, Campbell
3 - Frye, Walter, Greene
4 - Orton, LeFors
5 - Orlovsky, McPherson
6 - Anderson
7 - Cassel, Fitzpatrick
2006
1 - Young, Leinart, Cutler
2 - Clemens, Jackson
3 - Whitehurst, Croyle
5 - Martin, Jacobs
6 - Gradkowski, Shockley
2007
1 - Russell, Quinn
2 - Kolb, Beck, Stanton
3 - Edwards
5 - Rowe, Troy Smith
6 - J. Palmer
7 - Thigpen
2008
1 - Ryan, Flacco
2 - Brohm, Henne
3 - O'Connell
5 - Booty, Dixon, Johnson, Ainge
6 - Brennan, Woodson
7 - Flynn, Brink
2009
1 - Stafford, Sanchez, Freeman
2 - White
4 - McGee
5 - Bomar, Davis
6- Brandstater, Teel, Null, Painter
2010
1 - Bradford, Tebow
2 - Clausen
3 - McCoy
4 - Kafka
5 - Skelton, Crompton
6 - Rusty Smith, LeFevour, Webb, Price
7 - Brown, Canfield, Robinson
2011
1 - Newton, Locker, Gabbert, Ponder
2 - Dalton, Kaepernick
3 - Mallett
5 - Stanzi, Yates, Enderle
6 - Taylor
7 - McElroy
2012
1 - Luck, RG3, Tannehill, Weeden
2 - Osweiler
3 - Wilson, Foles
4 - Cousins
6 - Lindley
7 - Coleman, Harnish
2013
1 - Manuel
2 - Geno Smith
3 - Glennon
4 - Barkley, Nassib, T. Wilson, L. Jones
7 - Sorenson, Dysert, Daniels, Renfree
I'll stop there since the '14 class has just 1 season in.
That's 151 QBs drafted. I count maybe 15, 16 of those 151 that are/were at least in the slightly above average on up category. That's about a 10% success rate of just getting a halfway decent QB. Maybe you can make arguments for others, but that number can't be more than 20, which would be just 13%.
Then consider how many colleges there are, all of whom have QB's. I mean there's 128 starting QBs in D1-A alone. Hundreds more in D1-AA, D2, D3 and so on. I believe the NFL needs a developmental league just because of that alone. No one is learning how to play NFL QB in college, and that's why it's so hard to find just a halfway decent QB through the draft.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
64 in the 1st 3 rounds. The rest are chaff.
EllisUnit
Vote RED!!!
It's cause all he does is throw 2-7 yard passes all the time at 100 miles an hour. Mallett is either afraid to look deep or has horrible vision. Hoyer on the other hand atleast looks intermediate to deep....
Scooter
Funky
Looking at that list, almost all of the early round busts went to bad teams with either inept or transitional coaching staffs. There's no way to quantify it, but I wonder what the success rate would be if they went into more stable situations and had a chance to learn from an experienced head coach like Kubiak or Reid or McCarthy. Some like Jamarcus Russell are just busts from the get-go, but I'd bet the fortunes of at least a handful would change with a better coach.
I know we can look at Mallett and Hoyer landing well, but spending 4+ years without any meaningful snaps is just as much a career ender.
Last year was Mallett's 4th year. He started 2 games. Not much different than Schaub.
TripleTap
Dead Wood
Been interesting for me to watch Hoyer and compare his performance with Mallett's. Hoyer seems like a full range QB, even if he isn't a top line guy. He has moves, he throws different kinds of passes at different times, he has a bit of "escapability," he can fake a little, he can lob, he can drill it, he can go long and lofty, he seems to see (and use) the whole field, etc.
Mallett, by contrast, is machine-like. He's a jugs machine on a pivot. Ball seems to come out the same 95% of the time, hot and heavy. He's not nearly as accurate as Hoyer. His QB play apart from throwing is clumsy, obvious, stiff, etc. He looks like a guy who always made his bones on the big arm and never progressed an inch beyond that.
Mallett, by contrast, is machine-like. He's a jugs machine on a pivot. Ball seems to come out the same 95% of the time, hot and heavy. He's not nearly as accurate as Hoyer. His QB play apart from throwing is clumsy, obvious, stiff, etc. He looks like a guy who always made his bones on the big arm and never progressed an inch beyond that.
Scooter
Funky
Not really, Schaub had as many attempts as a rookie as Mallett did in 4 years. He also goes back to my first point of going to a good coach, Schaub went to Kubiak and Mallett went to O'Brien. Had Schaub gone to the Browns or Raiders instead of here, he might also be on the list of nobodies.
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
Right. And that's still about a 1 in 4 chance of getting a decent QB.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
A not unusual MLB batting average. They still swing.
powda
The bridge between stupid and useless is short.
So uhhh?
powda
The bridge between stupid and useless is short.
Everybody continues to complain about dropped balls by receivers like no other season i can remember. But they dont complain about it with hoyer. There's been no need to chime in before now as other posters bring it up on their own using terms like "ballistic."
Im willing to say mallet isnt throwing 101 mph fastballs if your willing to say he's throwing 94 mph curveballs. Dude has no touch just like i said.
Im willing to say mallet isnt throwing 101 mph fastballs if your willing to say he's throwing 94 mph curveballs. Dude has no touch just like i said.
speedfreek
All Pro
I've never seen a receiver corps that needed to wear ice hockey goalie shin protection.
Most of mallets passes seem to hit between the knee and ankle and travel at about
70 mph.
Guy might make a hell of a closer if he can throw a baseball the same way..
Most of mallets passes seem to hit between the knee and ankle and travel at about
70 mph.
Guy might make a hell of a closer if he can throw a baseball the same way..
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
The fact is the speed variation among NFL QBs isn't huge. 60 mph is he highest. 55-6 is about avg and 52-53 low end.
From Mallett's year:
Link has 2008-15
Now certainly some of these guys can do this more consistently or effortlessly and others are really heaving.
From Mallett's year:
Link has 2008-15
Now certainly some of these guys can do this more consistently or effortlessly and others are really heaving.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Interesting, Zac Dysert threw at 59!
Bit but mallet throws harder than any qb in the history of the game. He shatters finger bones on every pass. Don't believe me just ask all the mallet haters.
powda
The bridge between stupid and useless is short.
The problem isn't that Mallett throws faster then some of the other qbs. The problem is he throws that hard when guys are 4 yards away.