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All Encompassing Matt Schaub Thread

To be truthful, I have never really liked Schaub. I wanted Rosenfels to start when he was here. I always liked him. Even after the Rosencopter game, which I was muttering obscenities as I was leaving Reliant Stadium, I still respected him.

Sage had a Greek Tragedy type of aura around him. He had balls and wanted to make plays for his team. Schaub doesn't have those things. What was "tragic" was his talent did not allow for him to actually make the plays his body and mind wanted him to do.
 
HOU-TEX said:
That thread has a lot of conversation over Kubiak as well as Schaub. The Sage thread has to do with Schaub, but Sage as well
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is sage a texan?

No he's not.

This article was so much more in depth and analytical full of historical stats, and analysis about schaub and other qbs and it even had insightful strategic commentary by an actual nfl personnel guy in lombardi about a potential change in schaub's eye level which accounts for the short check down passes.

ACTUAL ANALYSIS NOT SOME RETELLING OF PAST FAILURES BY A FORMER TEXAN PLAYER.


This article blows away sage's article out of the water but mine was moved but that sage article wasnt.

There is a double standard with new posters here and its showing glaringly right now. If my thread was merged so should the sage article along with kubiak schaub article.

but since its the new guy that made the thread we will mess with him instead.
 
TexansFight said:
To be truthful, I have never really liked Schaub. I wanted Rosenfels to start when he was here. I always liked him. Even after the Rosencopter game, which I was muttering obscenities as I was leaving Reliant Stadium, I still respected him.

Sage had a Greek Tragedy type of aura around him. He had balls and wanted to make plays for his team. Schaub doesn't have those things. What was "tragic" was his talent did not allow for him to actually make the plays his body and mind wanted him to do.
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Sage = Oedipus
Schaub = Agamemnon

:toropalm:

I've been studying for Classical Civ too long
 
TexansFight said:
To be truthful, I have never really liked Schaub. I wanted Rosenfels to start when he was here. I always liked him. Even after the Rosencopter game, which I was muttering obscenities as I was leaving Reliant Stadium, I still respected him.

Sage had a Greek Tragedy type of aura around him. He had balls and wanted to make plays for his team. Schaub doesn't have those things. What was "tragic" was his talent did not allow for him to actually make the plays his body and mind wanted him to do.
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I thought sage should have been our stop gap instead of going after Schaub. I think this team would have been better for it. And I actually do think he had the physical talent. Remember, sage covered kicks for us when he came here.

I think that rosecopter game did him in though. That was his shot and I think if he makes that play or doesn't fumble, it would have been hard to justify starting Schaub after that.

But that's not how it happened and really this stuff is just fun to think about. Iiwii now.
 
TexansFight said:
I always liked him. Even after the Rosencopter game, which I was muttering obscenities as I was leaving Reliant Stadium, I still respected him.
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Rey said:
I think that rosecopter game did him in though. That was his shot and I think if he makes that play or doesn't fumble, it would have been hard to justify starting Schaub after that.
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The thing about Rosencopter is that he was trying to make a play. I like that he had the drive to go for it. That's the kind of cut throat attitude a lot of people think we're missing on offense. It's easy to make fun of him for it, but like you two I have some respect for him putting himself in that situation.
 
Mr teX said:
Its a good read, but it's nothing that everyone who has an ounce of football knowledge didn't already know...mentally he's a mess right now & after the SF game...i'm not sure he'll ever make it back...
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Guys on the radio (I can't remember who) were saying that Schaub hasn't thrown 3 INTs in a game since 2009 (I think). So we know he's had bad games before & gotten past it. But this is something totally different. The pick6, then the pick6 in 4 consecutive games, then that we're 1-4 in those games.

I know people don't want to hear it, but the only way to really get him out of it, without going back into his shell, is for the defense & the run game to pick up the slack.

He needs to make better decisions, but he also needs to stay aggressive & the only way that can happen is if we win in spite of the pick 6. The offenses we've faced aren't really playing very well. Sure we're making it easy for them, giving them the short field. But if we were to eliminate the long TD scoring drives, we win those games.

Schaub should remain under intense scrutiny, I'm not saying any different. But if we believe he must "play-through" it, I'm sure winning would go a long way. Stop thinking about mistakes & losing & focus on winning. He had ample opportunity to win the game in Seattle, even after the pick 6. He didn't.
 
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Blake said:
Interesting insight on his situation. Basically he says Matt is going to have to mentally get past his mistakes to get back to playing well. Playing guarded and conservative is only going to lead to more simple costly mistakes. So what I take from that is we need to let'er rip and come out rockin. I personally would like to see more bombs and big play attempts.
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I was thinking the same thing. Fisher is probably expecting us to plan on running roughshod all over them & is going over the intricacies of shutting down the cutback lanes.

This is probably the game that opening with the bootleg could lead to a quick easy score.
 
thunderkyss said:
Guys on the radio (I can't remember who) were saying that Schaub hasn't thrown 3 INTs in a game since 2009 (I think). So we know he's had bad games before & gotten past it. But this is something totally different. The pick6, then the pick6 in 4 consecutive games, then that we're 1-4 in those games.

I know people don't want to hear it, but the only way to really get him out of it, without going back into his shell, is for the defense & the run game to pick up the slack.

He needs to make better decisions, but he also needs to stay aggressive & the only way that can happen is if we win in spite of the pick 6. None of the offenses we've faced aren't really playing very well. Sure we're making it easy for them, giving them the short field. But if we were to eliminate the long TD scoring drives, we win those games.

Schaub should remain under intense scrutiny, I'm not saying any different. But if we believe he must "play-through" it, I'm sure winning would go a long way. Stop thinking about mistakes & losing & focus on winning. He had ample opportunity to win the game in Seattle, even after the pick 6. He didn't.
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Nah, he's done & its time to move on simply b/c the majority of the fan base has turned on him....and every time this guy makes a mistake he has the potential to go into streaks like this from here on out.. Even if we turn this season around, the only situation in which i can see Schaub here next year is if we win the SB this season with him at the helm......and suffice it to say, that's likely not happening....its time this franchise settled the qb position...we've got to go after someone high in the draft...regardless of how this season pans out....this is the draft to do it.
 
Vinny said:
You haven't been getting the hint so far. Go destroy some other forum please.
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HAMMER TIME?

I hope so. Thank Goodness. Good riddance.

Very good tolerance level for this cat IMHO. Where do these stirrers come from. It's obvious he's Keenum knobber but dayum, where does it end.

Here, right now I hope.
 
Mr teX said:
Nah, he's done & its time to move on simply b/c the majority of the fan base has turned on him....and every time this guy makes a mistake he has the potential to go into streaks like this from here on out.. Even if we turn this season around, the only situation in which i can see Schaub here next year is if we win the SB this season with him at the helm......and suffice it to say, that's likely not happening....its time this franchise settled the qb position...we've got to go after someone high in the draft...regardless of how this season pans out....this is the draft to do it.
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I believe that we have proven the we cannot afford to consistently be a one dimensional team and still expect to win consistently.
 
Mr teX said:
Nah, he's done & its time to move on simply b/c the majority of the fan base has turned on him....and every time this guy makes a mistake he has the potential to go into streaks like this from here on out.. Even if we turn this season around, the only situation in which i can see Schaub here next year is if we win the SB this season with him at the helm......and suffice it to say, that's likely not happening....its time this franchise settled the qb position...we've got to go after someone high in the draft...regardless of how this season pans out....this is the draft to do it.
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Yes, even with a SB win you go QB in the first round, and make a move to get into the top 12. There's 4-5 guys after Bridgewater that could pan out.

You open camp with an all out QB competition. Question is do you flat out cut Schaub or allow him to compete for the job?
 
Uncle Rico said:
Yes, even with a SB win you go QB in the first round, and make a move to get into the top 12. There's 4-5 guys after Bridgewater that could pan out.

You open camp with an all out QB competition. Question is do you flat out cut Schaub or allow him to compete for the job?
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we've had him since 2006 hmmmm....na he has had his time here, been ups and downs but we need to move on already.
 
Uncle Rico said:
Yes, even with a SB win you go QB in the first round, and make a move to get into the top 12. There's 4-5 guys after Bridgewater that could pan out.

You open camp with an all out QB competition. Question is do you flat out cut Schaub or allow him to compete for the job?
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That should have been done last offseason/preseason. Next year, all it does is take away important 1st team reps from our potential QB of the future.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
That should have been done last offseason/preseason. Next year, all it does is take away important 1st team reps from our potential QB of the future.
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Last time the Texans decided to part ways with the franchise QB they replaced him and cut him shortly thereafter. I don't know if they would do that the same way this time or not. I understand they tried to trade Carr but there was no interest. Everyone knew he was going to be cut. If they start shopping Schaub even discreetly I think the same thing would happen. Someone would certainly be interested but everyone would realize that he was about to be a free agent and just wait.

I think that when they decide to move on from Schaub (assuming we're talking offseason move) there's zero chance he sticks around to compete for the starters spot.
 
Hervoyel said:
Last time the Texans decided to part ways with the franchise QB they replaced him and cut him shortly thereafter. I don't know if they would do that the same way this time or not. I understand they tried to trade Carr but there was no interest. Everyone knew he was going to be cut. If they start shopping Schaub even discreetly I think the same thing would happen. Someone would certainly be interested but everyone would realize that he was about to be a free agent and just wait.

I think that when they decide to move on from Schaub (assuming we're talking offseason move) there's zero chance he sticks around to compete for the starters spot.
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I pretty much concur .... you also have to take into account Schaub's contract implications on a team's salary cap should they trade for him - Its simply not worth it to take him at his current salary when they can negotiate a much better deal as a FA.
 
Its gonna suck to eat that dead money. What will that figure be? Does it take away from the actual cap or is it just payed to Schaub and you still have full amount of cap to sign players?

Not that I would want to start Schaub but say he performs decent in camp, the team knowing all the while they will be going with Keenum or QB drafted and still Create a small market for Schaub in the process? Saying he won't be the QB whatsoever kinda shows your hand and you lose all leverage. Im just trying to think of best case scenario obviously, but crazy things happen during camp and a team or two could get desperate for a QB
 
Uncle Rico said:
Its gonna suck to eat that dead money. What will that figure be? Does it take away from the actual cap or is it just payed to Schaub and you still have full amount of cap to sign players?

Not that I would want to start Schaub but say he performs decent in camp, the team knowing all the while they will be going with Keenum or QB drafted and still Create a small market for Schaub in the process? Saying he won't be the QB whatsoever kinda shows your hand and you lose all leverage. Im just trying to think of best case scenario obviously, but crazy things happen during camp and a team or two could get desperate for a QB
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As mentioned before, cutting Schaub could cost as much as $10M of dead money. But what difference does that make if he can't play & you know he can't play? That would be like the Jags continuing to throw Gabbert out there.

Now the Texans can designate Matt a June 1st cut, then his dead money would only be $3.5M for 2014. $7M for 2015.

Keep in mind, if he is on the roster when the regular season starts, that's $14.5M against the cap.

If he's designated a June 1st cut it's only $3.5M

We'll save $7M if we cut him.
 
Uncle Rico said:
Its gonna suck to eat that dead money. What will that figure be? Does it take away from the actual cap or is it just payed to Schaub and you still have full amount of cap to sign players?

Not that I would want to start Schaub but say he performs decent in camp, the team knowing all the while they will be going with Keenum or QB drafted and still Create a small market for Schaub in the process? Saying he won't be the QB whatsoever kinda shows your hand and you lose all leverage. Im just trying to think of best case scenario obviously, but crazy things happen during camp and a team or two could get desperate for a QB
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Preseason won't show much of anything or prove much of anything if he plays out the way he has this season. It will not make him more "desirable" to us (at least I would hope not) or other teams. Bringing him back next year to compete as a STARTER will be as disruptive to the progress of this team as staying in close touch with a jealous Ex while trying to cultivate a new healthy relationship.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Preseason won't show much of anything or prove much of anything if he plays out the way he has this season. It will not make him more "desirable" to us (at least I would hope not) or other teams. Bringing him back next year to compete as a STARTER will be as disruptive to the progress of this team as staying in close touch with a jealous Ex while trying to cultivate a new healthy relationship.
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Absolutely agree!

He's got a contract that pays him anywhere from $10 million to $14.5 million over the next three years (2014-2016), not to mention a $1 million roster bonus in each year. Just like the Texans will (hopefully) be unwilling to part with that amount of base salary for Schaub, nobody else in the NFL's going to either.

However, it should also be noted that there is no reduction in the cap hit that is derived by trading him. Cut him or trade him after the 2013 season, and either way you're getting that $10.5 million hit.
 
ChampionTexan said:
Cut him or trade him after the 2013 season, and either way you're getting that $10.5 million hit.
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If Schaub is designated as a June 1st cut, the Texans would only be liable for the bonus allocation for 2014 (which is $3.5 million). The remaining $7 million in unallocated bonus would show on the 2015 cap. So the cap savings in 2014 in this scenario would be $14.5 million (salary + roster bonus + bonus allocation) - $3.5 million bonus allocation = $11 million in 2014 cap savings.

Howeva (as Stephen A. Smith might say), the Texans won't be able to go crazy in free agency with that cap savings. Even if they release Schaub in March, they don't get the cap relief until after Junes 1st. The cap relief would more likely go to extending current Texans. Like perhaps, J.J. Watt for instance.

Trading Schaub (like that would be a possibility) would cause the entire remaining bonus allocation ($10.5 million) to hit the 2014 cap. Since there's no way any team would trade for that ridiculous contract, it's a moot point.
 
How much wiggle room for error does Matt Schaub have today? If he throws a pick six (5th game in a row) on our first offensive drive to put us behind 7-0, will Kubiak bench him fast or allow him to play through it? Seems like we should dominate the Rams today and blow them out 45-6, but I'm worried we're going to only show up for a quarter or two again. Not a full 60 minutes like the elite teams do.
 
Norg said:
do u think when we cut or trade schaub he will be a starter for any other team ...??????
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Not many teams that he would be able to play for successfully at this point in his career. It would have to be in a system a lot like ours. The Washington Redskins for example, would be the perfect fit, but they have two young quarterbacks that I'd rather have instead of an aging and slow Matt Schaub.
 
eriadoc said:
You could make the argument that the Texans actually showed up for a full 60 minutes last week vs. the 49ers.
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True. The defense left it on the field. I was proud of their effort. Just a shame they are put in situations where the game is already decided and out of their hands. We could have beaten the Seahawks if we had just trusted our defense late in the game. Running the ball and punting, pinning them deep, with 2:50 or so left in the fourth quarter.
 
Bulls on Parade said:
True. The defense left it on the field. I was proud of their effort. Just a shame they are put in situations where the game is already decided and out of their hands. We could have beaten the Seahawks if we had just trusted our defense late in the game. Running the ball and punting, pinning them deep, with 2:50 or so left in the fourth quarter.
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I wish I could agree... but the Texans were having problems stopping the run all night. We're actually ranked towards the bottom in the league in yards per carry.
 
Norg said:
do u think when we cut or trade schaub he will be a starter for any other team ...??????
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Carson Palmer was traded to the Raiders to be their starter. After disappointing the Raiders for a year, he was signed to start for the Cardinals.

There are only a handful of good QBs in the league. Even with the deep QB draft coming up, someone will want a guy like Schaub to "mentor" their rookie & hedge their bets.

Bulls on Parade said:
How much wiggle room for error does Matt Schaub have today? If he throws a pick six (5th game in a row) on our first offensive drive to put us behind 7-0, will Kubiak bench him fast or allow him to play through it?
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IMO, you've got to stick with him as long as you'd have stuck with Yates/Keenum. You don't want your QB playing with the thought that the next INT will send him to the bench & you can't always "blame" the QB if an INT is returned for a touchdown.

Also, I think it needs to be downplayed as much as possible if you expect your QB to "get over it" As long as an INT is made out to be a huge mistake, it will always be on your QBs mind. You don't want your QB to be careless with the ball (to be honest only one of Schaub's INTs was on a careless throw), but you do not want him playing scared.

We've got to win despite the INT. Just like a struggling pitcher needs to have faith that his team will "have his back" if he gives up a hit, by fielding the ball, getting outs, & scoring runs; Schaub, Tj, or Case need to know his team will get stops if they make a mistake. Give up a field goal... that's fine. But I believe we've given up a TD on every INT Schaub's thrown, not just the pick 6es & that's got to change regardless who the QB is.

Bulls on Parade said:
Seems like we should dominate the Rams today and blow them out 45-6...
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& this is part of the reason I started the "We don't look like the Broncos thread."

It's been two years since we've seen a QB capable of winning a Super Bowl in Houston.

It's been two years since Arian has played at a level capable of winning a Super Bowl.

It's been two years since our OL played well enough to win a Super Bowl.

It's been two years since our defense played well enough to win a Super Bowl.

Only Andre, Cushing, Jj, & Kjax are playing at that level or better than they did in 2011. That's got to change if we're seriously going to make a run at the Super Bowl.

Bulls on Parade said:
but I'm worried we're going to only show up for a quarter or two again. Not a full 60 minutes like the elite teams do.
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The Broncos offense is the only unit that has played 60 minutes a game... nobody else. Nobody. If any team ever played like an elite team for 60 minutes the score would be at least 28-0 if you're thinking a TD per qtr, or 40-0 if "showing-up" equals 10 points per quarter.
 
I don't know how long his leash is with the coaches but the fans are holding him by the collar.

He's going to be booed his first errant throw and extended booing on his first 3 and out. If he throws another INT....who knows.
 
don't worry everyone, matt schaub will have a great game again, building his confidence, and then being the lower elite QB again.

enjoy the win today!!!!
 
Norg said:
do u think when we cut or trade schaub he will be a starter for any other team ...??????
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Yes. I can see two cases where Schaub would be a starter.

1) He could be a temporary starter until a young guy is ready. I can see both the Browns and Jaguars both drafting a QB in the 1st round, but then have Schaub as a one year starter.

2) I think teams like the Vikings and Bucs feel they are a decent QB away from being a playoff team. I can see the both of them taking a chance on Schaub.
 
Watching Game Day Morning on NFLN, and it was encouraging to hear everyone but Faulk agree you stick with Schaub. I fully expected Irvin to blast Schaub, but he surprised me. I know there are those here who think they have better insight than guys like them, but I will stick the Texans players who stand behind Schaub, and the former players from around the league who have also agreed you stick it out with Schaub.

If Schaub struggles today, I support benching him for part of the game if need be, or even the entire game should he throw another Pick 6, but I firmly stand behind the guy, and have confidence he can get out of this funk with the help of his teammates who all need to step up their game in the coming weeks.

Good Luck Matt!
 
Nitrofish said:
Watching Game Day Morning on NFLN, and it was encouraging to hear everyone but Faulk agree you stick with Schaub. I fully expected Irvin to blast Schaub, but he surprised me. I know there are those here who think they have better insight than guys like them, but I will stick the Texans players who stand behind Schaub, and the former players from around the league who have also agreed you stick it out with Schaub.

If Schaub struggles today, I support benching him for part of the game if need be, or even the entire game should he throw another Pick 6, but I firmly stand behind the guy, and have confidence he can get out of this funk with the help of his teammates who all need to step up their game in the coming weeks.

Good Luck Matt!
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Here Here! Good Luck Matt! Time to man up and show us if you really got what it takes!
 
TejasTom said:
I don't know how long his leash is with the coaches but the fans are holding him by the collar.

He's going to be booed his first errant throw and extended booing on his first 3 and out. If he throws another INT....who knows.
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Me thinks he'll be benched when his first completion to the opponent is secured. I'm wondering what Kubes will do if he fumbles the ball away instead....does that also count? :doghouse:
 
Will the Texans sign Vince Young or Tim Tebow tomorrow? Or perhaps start Case Keenum at Kansas City next Sunday? At 2-4, I just want a reason to be excited until we draft Johnny Manziel or Aaron Murray in April.
 
Bulls on Parade said:
Will the Texans sign Vince Young or Tim Tebow tomorrow? Or perhaps start Case Keenum at Kansas City next Sunday? At 2-4, I just want a reason to be excited until we draft Johnny Manziel or Aaron Murray in April.
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Losing is how you get Manziel. Just ask the Colts & Luck. Maybe the 49ers game convinced them to pack it in for the season, but Foster didn't get the memo.
 
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