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State of the O-line

This is all I know...

Ever since BOB has became our head coach, the offensive line has gotten worse EVERY year.

This past offseason, we were led to believe the GM & Coach weren't aligned. OK, we hire Gaine, whom was supposed to be seeing eye-to-eye with BOB. Gaine makes ALOT of changes... cuts both starting guards, signs three new starters, and drafts a tackle in the 3rd. So far, and didn't think it was possible, looks like the OL is even worse than last season.
 
leebigeztx said:
The role of the gm is to draft the players who fit the profile the coach sets through the scouts. In your honest opinion, do you think Smith would've drafted a guy like XSF or Fido based on his previous picks? Brandon Brooks was the outlier because he was a big guy who could zone block. I definitely agree with the firing of Devlin.
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I dont want to talk about this anymore. I thought I made this clear. Yes GM's look for players that fit a profile of what the HC wants. Ricky wasn't very good at fitting the profile to what his HC wanted.
 
dream_team said:
This is all I know...

Ever since BOB has became our head coach, the offensive line has gotten worse EVERY year.

This past offseason, we were led to believe the GM & Coach weren't aligned. OK, we hire Gaine, whom was supposed to be seeing eye-to-eye with BOB. Gaine makes ALOT of changes... cuts both starting guards, signs three new starters, and drafts a tackle in the 3rd. So far, and didn't think it was possible, looks like the OL is even worse than last season.
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Gotta spend the $$$$ to get the best players in FA and spend the draft capital to fix the problems. Gaine/BOB did neither. For this they should all be fired, I cant explain BOB's love affair with Devlin.
 
Shishkabob said:
but you just admitted it was BOB's guy Devlin that went to personally work out Davenport, so it is pretty easy to assume that both BOB and Devlin were instrumental in the drafting of Davenport. But even without including the failure of the development of players on BOB's side of the ball almost his entire tenure here, I think him retaining Devlin after his multiple years of failures should get him fired. He fired our secondary coach after 1 bad season in which they let his best CB go, why not hold his buddy accountable in the same way?

BOB also said multiple times while Smith was here, that him and Smith both discuss and are involved in player acquisitions
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Fired the special teams guy after 1 yr also.
 
steelbtexan said:
Gotta spend the $$$$ to get the best players in FA and spend the draft capital to fix the problems. Gaine/BOB did neither. For this they should all be fired, I cant explain BOB's love affair with Devlin.
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After we failed at Solder, someone decided Davenport was the best Plan B. Someone also thought Plan B for Seantrel was to move Davenport to RT and start the rookie whom missed alot of camp.

I'm done making excuses for BOB. I can't believe we keep making excuses for a guy that has proven nothing in this league. Think of all the excuses we have been giving him...

- The play calling sucks. OK, lets fire the OC and let BOB call the plays.
- The QBs suck. OK, lets draft a QB in the first round.
- The talent on the OL sucks. OK, lets change the GM to someone that knows what BOB wants.

IMO, the FO is doing alot to help BOB succeed.
 
If Gaine is the Brain's flunky then that explains everything. BOB doesn't know what talent is. QB guru my f$^%ing ass. Mallet, the OZ, Savage and he got rid of the marginal ones Fitz and Keenum.
Not saying great but he chose those three over the other two. Can't you see yet that he is lost. Again nothing personal against him. He sounds like a great guy with a great story but we need a NFL head coach. Nothing before he was hired gave any reason to think he would succeed and nothing after he has been hired gives you any hope. Just my opinion
 
gafftop said:
If Gaine is the Brain's flunky then that explains everything. BOB doesn't know what talent is. QB guru my f$^%ing ass. Mallet, the OZ, Savage and he got rid of the marginal ones Fitz and Keenum.
Not saying great but he chose those three over the other two. Can't you see yet that he is lost. Again nothing personal against him. He sounds like a great guy with a great story but we need a NFL head coach. Nothing before he was hired gave any reason to think he would succeed and nothing after he has been hired gives you any hope. Just my opinion
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Who are you talking to? Do you see anyone still saying that OB might be the answer?
 
JB said:
Who are you talking to? Do you see anyone still saying that OB might be the answer?
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Just venting. Have had to put up with years of hearing about how great BOB was. And then to sign him up for an extension.

Posted the following in response to something positve about BOB
The only thing I can come up with is......
Respected family man with good values and work ethic. And not his fault he was hired to coach the Texans.

gafftop, Oct 26, 2015Report

I have seen this crap for a long time and knew there was no hope.
 
dream_team said:
This is all I know...

Ever since BOB has became our head coach, the offensive line has gotten worse EVERY year.

This past offseason, we were led to believe the GM & Coach weren't aligned. OK, we hire Gaine, whom was supposed to be seeing eye-to-eye with BOB. Gaine makes ALOT of changes... cuts both starting guards, signs three new starters, and drafts a tackle in the 3rd. So far, and didn't think it was possible, looks like the OL is even worse than last season.
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And lol that is the bottom line right here. But the agenda will not allow him to see no other way. The hate for Rick Smith is that deep.
 
gafftop said:
Just venting. Have had to put up with years of hearing about how great BOB was. And then to sign him up for an extension.

Posted the following in response to something positve about BOB
The only thing I can come up with is......
Respected family man with good values and work ethic. And not his fault he was hired to coach the Texans.

gafftop, Oct 26, 2015Report

I have seen this crap for a long time and knew there was no hope.
Click to expand...

Wow that thread is painful to sift through.
 
gafftop said:
Just venting. Have had to put up with years of hearing about how great BOB was. And then to sign him up for an extension.

Posted the following in response to something positve about BOB
The only thing I can come up with is......
Respected family man with good values and work ethic. And not his fault he was hired to coach the Texans.

gafftop, Oct 26, 2015Report

I have seen this crap for a long time and knew there was no hope.
Click to expand...

I've thought he should be fired since he got massively blown out by Atlanta and Miami plus put Mallet out there like he was a legitimate future starter. That was 2015 and I didn't think it could be more clear he didn't know what he was doing flip flopping QBs like that and having such an unprepared team.

But most fans supported OBrien even through the recent extension. Most cited the strong 4 games by Watson last year. And before that they cited going 9-7 "despite the terrible QBs" (nevermind that he chose them)

Better late than never I guess.
 
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OptimisticTexan said:
Look, I want 2 OL in the first 3 rounds or 4 picks. As for QB.....I think something really cool could fall in place for this team. Clemson's Trevor Lawrence is an absolute stud and I'm predicting right now that he's going to be the primary starter at some point this season, relegating Kelly Bryant to QB2. If this scenario plays out.....Texans might have a real chance of drafting Kelly Bryant in RD4. I still think he's a solid QB, it's just unfortunate for him that Lawrence wanted to play for the Tigers. Kelly is a Watson clone from a physical and play standpoint....his accuracy can be improved upon.
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Damn, the pieces did fall in place!!! Kelly Bryant demoted in favor of Trevor Lawrence. Kelly is pretty upset and decided to leave the team. I just wonder if he's going to try and finish the season this year b/c he will choose a school that he wants to transfer to but be able to start this season. I could be wrong in regards to the rules. My guess, he'll try to get a feel for where he would fit in the draft and determine if he wants another season playing college ball. Hey Kelly, you fit nicely in RD4 or RD5 and would look just fine in a Texans uniform.
 
IDEXAN said:
Well that's encouraging. I dunno did he play good enough to be considered potentially as our long-solution at RT ?
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You would never be able to tell that one way or the other after 1 game, but the right side held up better than it has all season
 
He looked ok honestly..He showed to be more competent than Davenport that's for sure. The communication with the line in particular seemed to be better. That last houdini play Watson made at the end of regulation that led to the Fairbarn's miss...that was forced b/c Lamm got beat.
 
Shishkabob said:
You would never be able to tell that one way or the other after 1 game, but the right side held up better than it has all season
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Historically in his brief NFL career has Lamm played more on the right side or more on the left side and was he a left or right tackle in college ?
 
IDEXAN said:
Historically in his brief NFL career has Lamm played more on the right side or more on the left side and was he a left or right tackle in college ?
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In college, he played early at LT, but in his last 2 years played RT. While with the Texans, he's played sparingly at both positions, and played neither well. We have to feel that this last game was an anomaly until proven otherwise.
 
Or this is the most extensive look that we've had of him besides pre-season games where several of us thought he played well and a quarter and a half last year against the 2nd best pass rushing team where he got beat bad once and got yanked. I'm not saying that the guy's a world beater -- just that he's not as bad as the reputation he has garnered on this board.
 
At this point you could put any 2 of Rankin, Davenport or Lamm out there and get the same results. They just can't catch up to the outside rush without holding, lunging or false starting. It's a systemic failure that has no ability to be corrected this year. It will have to be schemed for and an offensive line breakdown must go into the game plan.
 
Texansballer74 said:
Lamm actually played some solid football.
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I gotta disagree …. He was just as bad as the alternatives aside from all the false start penalties …. I guess that is a positive.

The difference this week compared to the last three is the Dolts over pursuit , pass rushers pushing beyond the pocket instead of collapsing it which gave Watson avenues of escape …. watch the tape of the first three games , especially NE and the Giants who's rushers didn't push so far up field as they did east to west after the initial push closing off those avenues of escape.

And … Watson was sacked 7 freaking times this week by that over pursuing defense , it really could have been much worse had they played disciplined defense.

Averaging 3.3 sacks in the first 3 games , give up 7 this week ….. and we call that progress.
 
ArlingtonTexan said:
I won't get into the fallacy that the only place to find OL is in rounds 1 and 2 of the draft or that drafting OLman in the 1st two rounds means that they will be good.
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Considering that they haven’t ever had a quality OL I challenge your contention it’s a fallacy. Drafting an OL high in the draft each year doesn’t guarantee anything. Nothing does. But it at least it tells everyone you’re truly serious in addressing an obvious problem that never ceases to go away. Free agency at this position is always a gamble that’s more likely to end up with more dead money than actual improvement.

Edit: this belongs in the OL thread. Has nothing to do with Keke.
 
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CloakNNNdagger said:
Interesting that this season thus far, Solder has rated at best as average and Norwood as below average. Neither have lived up to their contracts.
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I would take an avg LT.

Lets see how Norwell looks when Fournette gets healthy. It's much different blocking for Fournette than it is for Yeldon.
 
I wonder, given all the passing we are seeing , if we’ll see a change in the type of OTs in the NFL. These edge rushers are so fast and explosive, I’m not sure putting a mammoth 6’7 330 pound guy out there is the right solution. I know once these guys get a hold of you they can be effective but the crazy athleticism is making that tough. I’m wondering if a big athletic TE could transformed into an OT that would have the movement skills to better match these edge guys
 
@PFF_Texans: #Texans Deshaun Watson average time to attempt and % of pressured dropbacks:

Week 1 - 3.23 seconds (2nd), 50% (2nd)
Week 2 - 3.34 seconds (1st), 52.5% (1st)
Week 3 - 3.00 seconds (2nd), 52.1% (6th)
Week 4 - 2.62 seconds (9th), 36.5% (9th)

https://t.co/0kWOAgWskq
 
otisbean said:
I wonder, given all the passing we are seeing , if we’ll see a change in the type of OTs in the NFL. These edge rushers are so fast and explosive, I’m not sure putting a mammoth 6’7 330 pound guy out there is the right solution. I know once these guys get a hold of you they can be effective but the crazy athleticism is making that tough. I’m wondering if a big athletic TE could transformed into an OT that would have the movement skills to better match these edge guys
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This is the Duane Brown story...and Eric Winston before that...There are others in the league currently who somewhere between graduating high school and early NFL transform from TE to tackle. The most extreme (that I know of) has been Villanueva from the Steelers who played some WR in college.

The problem even still with the TE to OT is that many if not most of the TEs in college today are really giant WRs versus in-line blockers. Our own Jordan Thomas is 20-25 lbs light of being exactly that TE to OT guy, except that he was playing WR in college.
 
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steelbtexan said:
I would take an avg LT.

Lets see how Norwell looks when Fournette gets healthy. It's much different blocking for Fournette than it is for Yeldon.
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I would take two average LT's please and thank you - but as much as you bag on the FO, you would be happy with an average highest paid OT in the league and not complain about their incompetence? Seems doubtful.
 
FuzzyLogic said:
Even with that vaunted, high dollar, team built the right way, owner willing to spend the big bucks to win Oline they have? No way - stats are lying :kitten:
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They've had 1 season ending injuries and 1 retirement. Plus there C still hasn't played a game this yr. This is really not surprising and should be expected.
 
ArlingtonTexan said:
This is the Duane Brown story...and Eric Winston before that...There are others in the league currently who somewhere between graduating high school and early NFL transform from TE to tackle. The most extreme (that I know of) has been Villanueva from the Steelers who played some WR in college.

The problem even still with the TE to OT is that many if not most of the TEs in college today are really giant WRs versus in-line blockers. Our own Jordan Thomas is 20-25 lbs light of being exactly that TE to OT guy, except that he was playing WR in college.
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Are you suggesting Jordan was drafted to be groomed into a LT down the road?
 
FuzzyLogic said:
I would take two average LT's please and thank you - but as much as you bag on the FO, you would be happy with an average highest paid OT in the league and not complain about their incompetence? Seems doubtful.
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Yes I would. I would also draft a RT highly that could move to LT in 2-4 yrs.
 
steelbtexan said:
They've had 1 season ending injuries and 1 retirement. Plus there C still hasn't played a game this yr. This is really not surprising and should be expected.
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I get where your coming from Steel, I do. And I'll even own up to your opinion on the Oline going into the season being right, they were terrible. I'm trying not to derail another thread on this so last I'll post about it. My complaint is the Texans never do much right in your post.

If the line I quoted above was the Texans oline, you still wouldn't give the team any credit the narrative would just switch to...

Retirement - lack of planning on the FO's part - should have seen it coming and had a plan
Injuries - failure of medical staff and FO for continuing to draft injury prone players

But since it's the Vikings and one of your "do it the right way" franchise examples it "should be expected".
 
Corrosion said:
I gotta disagree …. He was just as bad as the alternatives aside from all the false start penalties …. I guess that is a positive.

The difference this week compared to the last three is the Dolts over pursuit , pass rushers pushing beyond the pocket instead of collapsing it which gave Watson avenues of escape …. watch the tape of the first three games , especially NE and the Giants who's rushers didn't push so far up field as they did east to west after the initial push closing off those avenues of escape.

And … Watson was sacked 7 freaking times this week by that over pursuing defense , it really could have been much worse had they played disciplined defense.

Averaging 3.3 sacks in the first 3 games , give up 7 this week ….. and we call that progress.
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Most of those sacks were on Watson, not the oline. He was holding onto the ball too long as well as not being decisive.
 
ArlingtonTexan said:
This is the Duane Brown story...and Eric Winston before that...There are others in the league currently who somewhere between graduating high school and early NFL transform from TE to tackle. The most extreme (that I know of) has been Villanueva from the Steelers who played some WR in college.

The problem even still with the TE to OT is that many if not most of the TEs in college today are really giant WRs versus in-line blockers. Our own Jordan Thomas is 20-25 lbs light of being exactly that TE to OT guy, except that he was playing WR in college.
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We need to find a guy like Joey Dorsey from the Rockets to groom as an OT. That dude was 6’8 275 and athletic. I think chuck hayes from the rockets would have made an excellent OT.
 
ArlingtonTexan said:
I don't think so specifically, but he is the body type that could do so (I think at least)
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Exactly. I agree. Given Texan historical drafts, and what Gaine was left with, seems pretty well allocated to strengthen core weakness both TE and OL. It would make a lot of sense to really develop his in line blocking skills and see where it led, even if it means Texans use two TE sets to wall off, chip away to protect, creating more stable pocket for Watson.
 
@PFF_Texans: The #Texans O-line looked solid vs the Colts, as Watson was pressured on 36.5% of dropbacks, the lowest mark of the season (previous 50%).

Starters pass-blocking grades/pressures allowed:

Lamm - 69.4 (3)
Fulton - 74.4 (1)
Martin - 80.6 (0)
Kelemete - 75.5 (1)
Rankin - 52.2 (8)
 
TheKDog said:
@PFF_Texans: The #Texans O-line looked solid vs the Colts, as Watson was pressured on 36.5% of dropbacks, the lowest mark of the season (previous 50%).

Starters pass-blocking grades/pressures allowed:

Lamm - 69.4 (3)
Fulton - 74.4 (1)
Martin - 80.6 (0)
Kelemete - 75.5 (1)
Rankin - 52.2 (8)
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There's a good reason for this skew..........the opposing Ds know where to attack for the most success.
 
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CloakNNNdagger said:
There's a good reason for this skew..........the opposing Ds know where to attack for the most success.
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Teams have been focusing their blitzing on Rankin's side and he's been indecisive deciding who to block - a couple of times going completely brain-dead and blocking neither defender. I think most coaches teach to block inside-out (inside guy first) but Rankin is consistently missing the inside guy and picking up the outside. They're going to keep coming after him until he gets it fixed or gets more TE/RB help.
 
Max said:
Teams have been focusing their blitzing on Rankin's side and he's been indecisive deciding who to block - a couple of times going completely brain-dead and blocking neither defender. I think most coaches teach to block inside-out (inside guy first) but Rankin is consistently missing the inside guy and picking up the outside. They're going to keep coming after him until he gets it fixed or gets more TE/RB help.
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If they are consistently sending two on his side then obviously he needs help.
A TE would seem to be the answer.
 
Texansballer74 said:
Most of those sacks were on Watson, not the oline. He was holding onto the ball too long as well as not being decisive.
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I can remember 3 in particular.

With that said, Rankin was getting beat by speed rushers and I think there were situations where he was having troubles picking up Stunts.
 
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