Why would you give a highly drafted tackle two years, but you wouldn't give a 4th rounder 2 years?
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State of the O-line
- Thread starter jradMIT
- Start date
Why would you give a highly drafted tackle two years, but you wouldn't give a 4th rounder 2 years?
Shishkabob
All Pro
Interesting, I believe the Colts were the best pass rushing team we have faced so far, and we gave up the least amount of pressures. Sack numbers were high, but not all was on the line. 610 just pointed out a play where Watson was going to throw one of those amazing WR screens we all know and love, but both receivers were blocking, so he just kind of ate the sack.
zshawn10
All Pro
PFF HOU Texans@PFF_Texans
https://twitter.com/PFF_Texans/status/1047159538951053314
#Texans Deshaun Watson average time to attempt and % of pressured dropbacks:
Week 1 - 3.23 seconds (2nd), 50% (2nd)
Week 2 - 3.34 seconds (1st), 52.5% (1st)
Week 3 - 3.00 seconds (2nd), 52.1% (6th)
Week 4 - 2.62 seconds (9th), 36.5% (9th)https://join.profootballfocus.com/elite/
11:21 AM - Oct 2, 2018
https://twitter.com/PFF_Texans/status/1047159538951053314
#Texans Deshaun Watson average time to attempt and % of pressured dropbacks:
Week 1 - 3.23 seconds (2nd), 50% (2nd)
Week 2 - 3.34 seconds (1st), 52.5% (1st)
Week 3 - 3.00 seconds (2nd), 52.1% (6th)
Week 4 - 2.62 seconds (9th), 36.5% (9th)https://join.profootballfocus.com/elite/
11:21 AM - Oct 2, 2018
You start Matthews at RT and Brown at LT. You have bookend OT's then move Matthews over to LT when DB throws his fit. In the meantime you draft a guy like Davenport in the fourth round and train him up to play RT when DB leaves. This is called investing in the OL/keeping your franchise QB healthy.
I know posters around these parts don't understand a plan like this because the Texans have never invested in their OL like this.
Guess what position the great Jonathan Ogden started his career? LG
Shishkabob
All Pro
you should always invest at least a semi high pick in the line(1st-4th rounds) Injuries are always 1 play away, HS and colleges don't do a good job of teaching these guys how to play the position properly so there is always a steep learning curve, and with free agency most players are on 4 year cycle
With the current state of the OL they need to invest their 1st even if they have to trade up to get a LT in the draft and a 2nd. Plus pickup 1 high dollar FA OL if they want to keep Watson healthy and maximize Watson and the great skill position weapons he has around him. This can be done, it's not impossible.
Shishkabob
All Pro
I will agree with this, I don't think with how we look where we will be drafting we will need to trade up though. But yea we need to sign a decent FA lineman, draft one in the first, sign a solid FA corner, and then take one with our second if not trade back up for one at the end of the first round.
See the difference between our thinking is I want them to spend the $$$$ to get the best FA OL decent isn't good enough. They have the cap space.
Shishkabob
All Pro
Well I say decent because from my quick search of available lineman this off season decent is about the best option there is, all the top flight guys signed extensions before the season started
Considering the current state, the history of this franchise, and the widely agreed upon notion that there just aren't enough quality linemen available - league wide, I would like to see them use at least the first three picks on quality linemen .... Lord knows we've been without talented ones for far too long !
zshawn10
All Pro
Adam Wexler@KPRC2AdamW
https://twitter.com/KPRC2AdamW/status/1047518692001697798
"A lot of those hits are on me, holding on to the ball too long, not getting rid of the ball," - #Texans Deshaun Watson on taking so many hits this year. Said OL for sure gets too much criticism, a lot of the sacks are on him. #Cowboys
11:08 AM - Oct 3, 2018
https://twitter.com/KPRC2AdamW/status/1047518692001697798
"A lot of those hits are on me, holding on to the ball too long, not getting rid of the ball," - #Texans Deshaun Watson on taking so many hits this year. Said OL for sure gets too much criticism, a lot of the sacks are on him. #Cowboys
11:08 AM - Oct 3, 2018
And find a couple of CB's in fa. Plus draft another developmental guy at cb in Rd 3.
+ RB, + TE, + QB and that's just through 4 rds !
If they pickup a couple of vet CB's in fa I could get on board with this.
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@PFF_AustinGayle: Texans rookie OT Martinas Rankin, who leads all offensive linemen in pressures allowed with 27, has allowed more pressures than six (!!) offensive lines this season.
Rankin is on pace to allow 108 pressures, which would be two less than New Orleans' OL allowed all last season.
I mean it's not like we had a guy who finished as the starter at LT last year and practiced at LT all training camp.
Rankin is on pace to allow 108 pressures, which would be two less than New Orleans' OL allowed all last season.
I mean it's not like we had a guy who finished as the starter at LT last year and practiced at LT all training camp.
That guy sucked worse than Rankin. He almost got Watson hurt again and did get Henderson hurt. # Sad
zshawn10
All Pro
So is it because Watson holds the ball too long or because Rankin, who was injured through TC, is a raw prospect thrown into the fire?
xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
I was thinking Rankin was considered a RT or probably a guard because he didn't have great feet .
Go to Lance's last tweet from yesterday for a link to his dad's comments on the line play Sunday. https://twitter.com/LanceZierlein?cn=ZmxleGlibGVfcmVjc18y&refsrc=email
Pretty interesting.
Pretty interesting.
That's some good stuff !
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
After watching the Colts/Pats game our biggest problem isn't really talent.. IT'S COACHING.
The Colts are playing with backups across the board and their line is blocking better than ours have ever blocked under our piece of **** OL coach. I don't give a crap if we had 1st rounders at every position, this line is not going to improve until we flush that turd.
The Colts are playing with backups across the board and their line is blocking better than ours have ever blocked under our piece of **** OL coach. I don't give a crap if we had 1st rounders at every position, this line is not going to improve until we flush that turd.
dream_team
Hall of Fame
I think majority of us have already come to this conclusion. But hey, welcome on the bandwagon!
Well with 1st rd picks
Costanzo/Nelson (This yr)/Kelly/ Vet Slauson/2nd rd pick this yr Smith
Is it any wonder that the Colts have a much better OL than the Texans do
3rd rd pick this yr Rankin/Backup Kelemete/2nd rd pick Martin/Backup Fulton/ UDFA Kendall Lamm.
The Colts have spent the last 2 yrs adding premium talent to their OL. The Texans spent the last 2 yrs adding a bunch of backup FA's and UDFA's.
Good luck keeping Watson healthy.
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
We have spent high draft picks on the line too! What good did it do with our coach?!
All he did was coach them up into NFL Busts. I don't want this turd's hands anywhere near around any future high round investments.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
Sorry, maybe this coaching staff is getting the best of me.. I just want them gone yesterday.
10 yrs ago DB
Martin/XSF
So that's 1 first rder and 2 2nd rders.
The Colts have invested more than that in the last 2 yrs.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
1st, 2nd & 4th. The 1st & 2nd being in a year the Texans didn't have a 1st & 2nd. But f'k the facts.
They were easily the most aggressive pass rush …. but despite the sack totals , I don't think they were the "Best".
I think the Pats were the best in defending Watson and dictating what he was able to do. They pushed the pocket east to west and didn't run themselves out the back door often. They got pressure on Watson on 50% of his attempts. They kept him between the tackles and didn't allow him to extend plays at all …. and that's Watsons greatest asset - they stopped it cold.
Sure , the Dolts had a higher sack total …. but that doesn't tell the entire story as at least two are on Watson and a third on the WR's and Watson was able to get outside more often than not as those pass rushers didn't keep contain on the edges.
The real story of those two defenses is told better by the results , one gave up 20 points in a convincing win while the other gave up 37 in a loss that the Texans had a three score lead and squandered it.
I don't understand how they have let this get so bad , worst OL in the league (By Far) two consecutive years.
Throwing away that pick to move the Blundering Wizard of Oz was a terrible decision in hindsight , they did absolutely nothing with the cap space it generated , they threw that pick away to save McNair $18m. At the time I thought it was a good idea , assuming they used the cap space.
They struck out on the big names in free agency but there wasn't a whole lot out there to begin with aside from Solder who hasn't been great …
Tricky Rick is finally gone , 5 years too late …. maybe Gaine solves the OL and Cornerback issues this offseason , that's their biggest weaknesses …. fix them and you've got a solid team that could contend with the right coach.
Shishkabob
All Pro
Going into our game the Colts this was the colts defense
— Tied for second in the NFL in most opponent negative plays (24)
— First in the NFL in tackles for loss (22)
— Tied for fourth in the NFL in sacks (10)
Our line blocked better, against them. The reason why the Pats were able to contain the pocket, and not rush to far up field is because our line was letting them bull rush them back into Watson's lap. They stood stronger against the colts front so the edge rushers tried to rely more on speed, in which the line for the most part did a better job of running them around which is what you are suppose to do, if the guy wants to run up field guide his ass 20 yards up field. Our line improved last week whether you want to admit it or not, and they did it against a team who at the time had a top 5 pass rush.
and when they traded away that 2nd round pick it wasn't to save McNair $18 mil, they were clearly going after Romo, which is probably why they placed a value on Bouye less than what he was worth, because if they re-signed him they still needed money to get Romo.
Anthe point is the Colts invested more in their OL in 2 seasons than the Texans have in a decade. Certainly they've invested way more in the last 5 yrs BOB has been here. Those are the facts even though I pointed them out you still want to argue. SMDH
Belichick is a witch.
I've been saying fix the OL for yrs. It's no surprise that the 2 best yrs in franchise history the Texans had their best OL's. So far if last yrs pathetic attempt to fix the OL in FA is the best Gaine can do to fix the OL then this franchise is in deep trouble in the long term.
I'm pretty well convinced that the majority of fans can not be, or will not be persuaded that a highly talented line is the most important ingredient, (beyond QB), to an offense. Belichik is a witch, but he will lose his powers when Brady is gone ! The Colts do have a history of drafting talented linemen. Since our inception, we have drafted Duane Brown in the late 1st, Chester Pitts, Xavier S'ua-Filo, and Nick Martin in the 2nd .... that's it !
Last year the Colts' OL might have been worst than the Texans. They gave up 56 sacks and allowed 113 hits on their QBs.
I don't know how much they invested in improving the OL this season. Did you notice any differences in their play against the Texans?
3rd rounder Brandon Brooks
and 3rd round Brennan Williams (does it technically count as a bust if they never even play? lol)
Kelly was put .ost of last year and Costanzo missed time. That's why their OL was so bad
Those guys are back plus drafting the two best OL in the draft, plus signing a guy Like Slausom and of course they are going to be improved.
Hopefully Gaine uses this as a blue print.
A draft of a guy like Williams/the OT from Clemson and Pierbacher would be a great start to fixing the OL and should be very doeable
Self quoting from another thread...this a case where literally every possible area has been below average. From health to coaching to drafting to retaining players to even good old fashioned luck. Total system failure is regards to OL play.
This was pre-draft posting originally
Shishkabob
All Pro
Isn't Williams from Bama, or is there another highly regarded Williams tackle at Clemson I need to keep my eye on too?
Also if I am Gaine this coming off season I'd do what I could to sign Trent Brown away from the Pats(D. Williams as a back up plan, but his knee scares me), then I would make a run at Ronald Darby(possibly E.J. Gaines or Jason Verrrett, but they come with injury concerns) Then I would double down(or triple down) on both spots in the draft
(Alabama's) Williams and Pierschbacher would make an excellent tandem for the left side .... especially considering that they those positions now.
Looking back, the Texans tried to address the OL with:
- Quessenberry: rated 10th out of 111 OTs. Expected to be drafted in the 3rd or 4th round
- Newton: rated 16th out of 87 OTs. Expected to be drafted in the 5th or 6th round
- Martin: rated 2nd out of 66 Cs. Expected to be drafted in the 2nd or 3rd round
- Su'a-Filo: rated 2nd out of 165 OGs. Expected to be drafted in the 1st or 2nd round
- Brooks: rated 4th out of 188 OGs. Expected to be drafted in the 2nd round
- Williams: rated 10th out of 111 OTs. Expected to be drafted in the 3rd or 4th round
- Jones: rated 2nd out of 36 Cs. Expected to be drafted in the 3rd or 4th round
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Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Only in the most unusual circumstances is coaching going to raise a guy from below average talent to a pro bowl level player & its absurd to think that’s something that’s commonplace. Coaching by itself probably accounts for like 10-20% of a player’s improvement. The rest is a combo of the player’s work ethic, smarts and physical attributes and talent.
That list shows..at least on the surface shows a lot of deficiencies in the talent area.
Unrealistic and maybe even arrogance by the Texans.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
83.52% of this is made up.
Here is the ALL-Pro list from 2017 season. When I see this I draw a different conclusion than the one you just posted.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_All-Pro_Team
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Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Lol b/c u don’t agree with it. Doesn’t make it any less true
I can coach a guyhow to place his hands when blocking...how he needs to move his feet...i can show you on tape how you’re ******* up..tell u what u need to work on, look out for.....I can do this **** all day with a player...
But if he can’t apply it...for whatever reason on the field, coaching doesn’t mean ****.
That’s what u can’t seem to grasp.
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Mr teX
Hall of Fame
I don
Don’t see how u don’t see it.. all pro team is littered with 1st and 2nd & 3rd round drafted talents..with the occasional guy drafted outside of that...Brady and Brown....which are 2 guys who are known for their legendary work ethic.
Furthermore if u think coaching was the primary reason for any of those guys being all pro...well there’s nothing else we need to talk about.
Don’t see how u don’t see it.. all pro team is littered with 1st and 2nd & 3rd round drafted talents..with the occasional guy drafted outside of that...Brady and Brown....which are 2 guys who are known for their legendary work ethic.
Furthermore if u think coaching was the primary reason for any of those guys being all pro...well there’s nothing else we need to talk about.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Wow, you mean they have to be talented and hard working too. Color me gobsmacked.
Damn, with insight like that you should set your aim on the Grand Unified Theory.
How many first & 2nd rounders were on that line?
Didn't Chris Myers make the Pro Bowl? May not have been an all pro, but I think he was regarded as one of the best doing their job.
The Broncos used to have an OL factory back in the day, under Shanahan. Year after year they were churning out solid linemen out of low round & undrafted free agents. Back when they had coaches who coached.
I will just move on and continue to conclude that there are multiple factors for and variety of places in the draft where All-Pro Offensive Linemen are found and developed.