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The New New JaDeveon Clowney Thread

steelbtexan said:
True

Tell me which slot on the Texans compares to Edelman?
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Seems like every season they bring in one or more undersized quick more than fast guys and then don't get used. This year they are trying more with Coutee & Carter. But Edelman & Welker before him were used differently. They feasted on the middle of the field with drags & slants. Our guys work outs much more.
 
infantrycak said:
Seems like every season they bring in one or more undersized quick more than fast guys and then don't get used. This year they are trying more with Coutee & Carter. But Edelman & Welker before him were used differently. They feasted on the middle of the field with drags & slants. Our guys work outs much more.
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Coutee was used alot like Welker/Edelman for a couple of games before he hurt his hammy again. When he came back he wasn't used the same. Hopefully Coutee will be healthy and used like he was those 1st couple of games in the playoffs.
 
steelbtexan said:
Coutee was used alot like Welker/Edelman for a couple of games before he hurt his hammy again. When he came back he wasn't used the same. Hopefully Coutee will be healthy and used like he was those 1st couple of games in the playoffs.
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I hope the Texans realize what Fuller and maybe Coutee are and that is players they can’t stay on field
 
gafftop said:
I hope the Texans realize what Fuller and maybe Coutee are and that is players they can’t stay on field
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I hope Fuller & Coutee can stay on the field.

But if we've got Fuller, Couttee, Carter on the roster... I just can't see it.

DeAndre, & Smyth... then two of the three Fuller, Coutee, Carter going forward.
 
steelbtexan said:
Coutee was used alot like Welker/Edelman for a couple of games before he hurt his hammy again. When he came back he wasn't used the same. Hopefully Coutee will be healthy and used like he was those 1st couple of games in the playoffs.
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Coutee added an exciting dimension the way they were proactively getting the ball in his hands on jet sweeps and using him as a sort of running game to slow down the blitz. I think they got away from that after Fuller got hurt because they are desperate for a deep threat. I hope Vyncint Smith can be enough of a deep threat that they can use Coutee on jet sweeps and high percentage "hot read" type plays so DW4 doesn't take as much punishment.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
By the recent AP voting Clowney had only 1 vote as an defensive edge rusher.
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IMHO that tends to validate the opinion many of us have about JD which is that he's a very good DE/OLB but short of being an elite caliber talent.
Clowney just completed his 5th regular season in the NFL but has never had a double digit sack year even though he is an excellent pass rusher and also very strong
defender vs rushing plays.
 
PapaL said:
For the right deal I’d move Clowney. Question is what would be the right deal for a 3x ProBowl Edge?
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The right deal is anything over what we would get in compensation. What another waste of a 1.1 if not worth resigning and you only get compensation.
 
gafftop said:
You are right. He was the only one I did not want as 1.1 Was I right?? I guess you were a Clowney backer
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Same here, we had no partners to trade down though. I really wanted Mack but I’m still of the belief that McNair wanted JDC due to the SC connection. My posts on this are all on the old board.....
 
powda said:
Link?

Saying **** after the fact now means squat without your quote history.
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I don't fetch. If you claim otherwise, with nothing to base it on other than hostility, it's on you Inspector Clouseau. It's public record available to all on the MB. Go look it up.

Doc said bone spurs are typically secondary to another issue, in Clowney's case undiagnosed. I didn't like the risk when there was another LB right there. We had just taken Hopkins so Watkins made no sense to me and I don't like taking OL that high so didn't want Robinson.
 
I was for drafting Clowney all along back in 2014 and for the most part he's been a good to very good defensive lineman/LB the last couple years after being injured much of his first two years in the league but as we know now he's certainly not the best defensive player coming out of that Draft.
Clowney is now at the end of his rookie contract but I hope that GM Gaine contractually speaking does not make a significant long-term commitment to him especially considering his injury history.
 
infantrycak said:
Doc said bone spurs are typically secondary to another issue, in Clowney's case undiagnosed. I didn't like the risk when there was another LB right there. We had just taken Hopkins so Watkins made no sense to me and I don't like taking OL that high so didn't want Robinson.
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2 key points in this post: injury history and Mack is built like a LB. Clowney is a giant track guy that plays FB. What I mean by that is he’s long and lanky, and guys with that build often have great speed but are not as good at change of direction. Mack has a squattier build and has much better COD ability. Here are link to their individual combine performances, if you look at the 20yd agility and 3 cone Mack’s times are much better:

Clowney:
http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/jadeveon-clowney?id=2543456

Mack:

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/khalil-mack?id=2543463

I think COD ability is really important for pass rushing ability, as it helps with counter moves. I think Mack is a better pass rusher than Clowney, both are good players though - just different. i think Mack would have been a better fit for our team

I have 2 complaints with Clowney, one is on him and I think the other might be on RAC. To me Clowney needs to play with better discipline. I saw a tweet, and I apologize for not posting it but i cannot remember the author, where it compared the yardage lost on Clowney’s sacks and TFLs (allowing 2-3yds per TFL) to all his penalty yardage, it was a wash. Additionally numerous times during the season, as well as last night, he dives inside and loses contain and it has caused issues. Add that to the penalties and it’s a problem IMHO.
Also, it seems like they don’t know what to do with Merciless now. They are playing JJ and CLowney out wide and Whitney is in coverage waaay too much, and he’s not good at it - at all.

I don’t dislike Clowney at all, I hope they franchise him for a couple years or someone offers us a nice trade package for him. Personally I would take Joe Staley and 2 seconds from the 49ers. That would give the 49ers a good edge player and allow them to draft Jonah Williams in the first. We’d get an instant upgrade at LT for a couple years and a couple more good picks to add to the OL and DBs. We could maybe draft Hyatt or Dillard and let them get stronger and learn pro game playing behind Staley.
 
otisbean said:
I don’t dislike Clowney at all, I hope they franchise him for a couple years or someone offers us a nice trade package for him. Personally I would take Joe Staley and 2 seconds from the 49ers. That would give the 49ers a good edge player and allow them to draft Jonah Williams in the first. We’d get an instant upgrade at LT for a couple years and a couple more good picks to add to the OL and DBs. We could maybe draft Hyatt or Dillard and let them get stronger and learn pro game playing behind Staley.
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I would love that, but I think Lynch is too smart for that
 
I think all signs are pointing to lets deal clown and hope ENjifor and whitney can hold it down

and hope a team gives us a good deal

if we purge the DC coaches and racks and switch back to a 4-3 and 5-2 I dont know would clown work better has a DE ..???
 
powda said:
Link?

Saying **** after the fact now means squat without your quote history.
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http://www.texanstalk.com/threads/clowney-then-what.103555/page-146#post-2334161


1.

2. You know I was never a Mario fan. Decided I would look at Tenn game because person interviewed on radio gushed about Clowney in this game. Found game on utube
and watched whole game in a few minutes. Saw Mario lite. Was not impressed. Hope they can find some team that will trade down with us. Sucks that again there is no one worthy of no 1. I just don't think he will be a difference maker. Last play on tape showed him getting blown out on running play.


gafftop, May 7, 2014Report

#2909+ QuoteReply

3.

Here is one powda.
Look at last play. Some things never change.
 
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powda said:
Link?

Saying **** after the fact now means squat without your quote history.
Click to expand...
http://www.texanstalk.com/threads/clowney-then-what.103555/page-148#post-2334575



1.

2. HJam72 said: ↑

I am really against taking Clowney at this point. I just can't see this working out well, unless he is traded to a team he fits better with.

BPA be damned; we need a guy that will exceed on OUR team.

DocBar said: ↑

Valid point. I never said I'd take him off my board completely. Just not at 1.1.

That's the screwed up thing with this draft. I can't find a prospect that's worthy of 1.1. That's why I would be the easiest trade negotiator another GM ever met. I'd say the 1st overall pick is up for sale to the highest bidder and I would take the highest bid.

Could not agree more with these takes.

I think HJam mentioned coverage skills. Anybody see drills of Clowney in open field, I think he almost fell down. Receivers do cut and Clowney can't.
Straight line speed for DL is over rated.

Even if the Texans take Clowney No. 1 I will still have hope of a trade until Atl picks. Hope the Texans make trade before they pick though.

Ready to get this draft done.


Last edited: May 8, 2014

gafftop, May 8, 2014Report

#2959+ QuoteReply

3.


Another powda
 
Norg said:
I think all signs are pointing to lets deal clown and hope ENjifor and whitney can hold it down

and hope a team gives us a good deal

if we purge the DC coaches and racks and switch back to a 4-3 and 5-2 I dont know would clown work better has a DE ..???
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My feeling is we get nothing for the clown or we end up stuck with him if we franchise.
Question though is can we tag him and then trade/make a deal before he signs? Also I think Clown may pull a Bell possibly.
Do we risk tagging him and getting stuck with him if no one makes a trade? What compensation pick would we get at this point, I know it is complicated.
 
gafftop said:
My feeling is we get nothing for the clown or we end up stuck with him if we franchise.
Question though is can we tag him and then trade/make a deal before he signs? Also I think Clown may pull a Bell possibly.
Do we risk tagging him and getting stuck with him if no one makes a trade? What compensation pick would we get at this point, I know it is complicated.
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It's not guaranteed we get anything if we let him walk. Depends on what other FA's we let walk and who we sign in free agency. If he's the clear outlier on the balance of lost/signed FA's, we'd probably get a 3rd for him (and that's the most we could get). But if he's just one of FA's in a free agency season that's a wash on the balance, we get nothing.

If we tag him and don't get anything we like as far as trade offers go, I don't see playing him on a tag as "getting stuck with him."
 
gafftop said:
My feeling is we get nothing for the clown or we end up stuck with him if we franchise.
Question though is can we tag him and then trade/make a deal before he signs? Also I think Clown may pull a Bell possibly.
Do we risk tagging him and getting stuck with him if no one makes a trade? What compensation pick would we get at this point, I know it is complicated.
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Getting "STUCK" with a pro bowl player? There is no risk in tagging him. You sign him to a contract or you trade him.
 
otisbean said:
I have 2 complaints with Clowney, one is on him and I think the other might be on RAC. To me Clowney needs to play with better discipline. I saw a tweet, and I apologize for not posting it but i cannot remember the author, where it compared the yardage lost on Clowney’s sacks and TFLs (allowing 2-3yds per TFL) to all his penalty yardage, it was a wash. Additionally numerous times during the season, as well as last night, he dives inside and loses contain and it has caused issues. Add that to the penalties and it’s a problem IMHO.
Also, it seems like they don’t know what to do with Merciless now. They are playing JJ and CLowney out wide and Whitney is in coverage waaay too much, and he’s not good at it - at all.

I don’t dislike Clowney at all, I hope they franchise him for a couple years or someone offers us a nice trade package for him. Personally I would take Joe Staley and 2 seconds from the 49ers. That would give the 49ers a good edge player and allow them to draft Jonah Williams in the first. We’d get an instant upgrade at LT for a couple years and a couple more good picks to add to the OL and DBs. We could maybe draft Hyatt or Dillard and let them get stronger and learn pro game playing behind Staley.
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Matt Hammond‏Verified account@MattHammondShow


Jadeveon Clowney: - 110 penalty yards - 9.0 sacks, 74 yards lost - 15 tackles for loss Let’s say those TFL were, on average, good for a 2-3 yard loss. That means his penalties completely negate the sacks tackles for loss.

5:33 PM - 27 Dec 2018
 
FuzzyLogic said:
Exactly if the TFL or Sack was on 3rd down and forced a punt that is a much larger impact than a 5 yd penalty on 2nd down.

Yeah let's cut down on the penalties - but using is as a nill yardage measure is half the story at best.
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Yea but that cuts both ways. If the penalty cost your team it's last chance to win a one possession game or was on the sideline when he wasn't even playing... and helped determine the outcome of the game... that half of the story is significant.
 
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If the Texans were smart they would trade him in the offseason for a first and second rounder.

The Texans need major upgrades at 4 of the 5 OL positions.

Lamm's improvement means he deserves a shot to start from day 1 next season.
 
corry said:
If the Texans were smart they would trade him in the offseason for a first and second rounder.

The Texans need major upgrades at 4 of the 5 OL positions.

Lamm's improvement means he deserves a shot to start from day 1 next season.
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I'm not as impressed with Lamm. I can't get behind him as Plan A for next season.

At the same time I don't like our Center or our LT but i do not want to start 3 or more new OL. Unless we get a new OL coach, OC, or HC. If we have nothing to build on, I'm fine with five new starters. But I dont want to believe (even though everything points to it) that our OL coach did not do a damn thing worth building on.
 
corry said:
I just don't think clowney will command as much as Mack unfortunately. He is a tier below, but still a great player who should command significant draft capital.
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I have no idea what Clowney can bring in a trade. Maybe depends on how many teams are interested.

But people can't both want to get rid of Clowney (because he's about to break down, because he's lazy, because he always jumps, or whatever other reason) and expect to get a king's ransom for him.
 
paycheck71 said:
I have no idea what Clowney can bring in a trade. Maybe depends on how many teams are interested.

But people can't both want to get rid of Clowney (because he's about to break down, because he's lazy, because he always jumps, or whatever other reason) and expect to get a king's ransom for him.
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I think just below Mack would be expected.

Clowney can wreck an offense and there is value to that.
 
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