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Would you make a trade before the trade deadline?
- Thread starter Texansphan
- Start date
Good too see you back
How would you rate Watson's performance this yr.
He's done well considering he's playing with broken ribs.
Scooter
Funky
I'd be all over PP for a second round pick (or a 2nd and a 3rd or 4th if necessary). If money can be worked out for a long term deal, and I'd talk to Matthieu about how he feels working with PP again as well as Badger's potential to sign long term - I'd go to a first round pick. Pat Pete is prime at 28, and with little injury history and zero missed games, he's still got a solid 5-6 years in the tank with his athleticism. Joseph is still doing work and Kareem is having a ProBowl type season at CB/S hybrid, but age is catching up and we struggle to acquire and coach talent at the corner position - a big time CB for the next half decade would buy us a lot of flexibility.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
Nope. I don't think the Texans really have anyone they can afford to lose or draft picks to trade away for anything on the Oline. That's the main thing I care about. We need to draft Oline heavy for the next 2 yrs. Unfortunately, I don't see us as being in a food trade position right now, and I usually always am. We need to build through the draft.
Unless you're considering Clowney for good compensation. I don't see him being worth the resigning extention so if his value pulled a good enough package I'd consider it for a few picks or a good player that we'd be able to have for a few yrs.
Unless you're considering Clowney for good compensation. I don't see him being worth the resigning extention so if his value pulled a good enough package I'd consider it for a few picks or a good player that we'd be able to have for a few yrs.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
Judging by the last transaction (Dallas / Arizona) and the way Clowney is currently playing......trade him now while the irons hot. Clowney should command a RD1 and another RD4 or later in 2019 or a RD1 in 2019 and a RD2 or RD3 in 2020.
Another question.....do the Texans OL fall apart if Martin were to be traded? Martin was a RD2 investment who hasn't come close to living up to his selection slot. Maybe he isn't a fit for O'Brien's scheme and in that case, it makes even more sense to trade him since it might be unlikely that O'Brien is going anywhere. If Martin could return a RD5 or RD6 pick, I'd consider that a win.....mostly b/c the 2019 NFL Draft is deep at defensive personnel.
Personally, I have interest in the 2018 Texans but I do not view them as AFC juggernauts. They'll win a very piss-poor division which isn't a plus at any level. If the Jags get a QB and health, they're a dominant team in the AFC, if the Colts get to work from enviable spot in the draft and gain health as well....they could return as a top divisional talent now that Luck appears to be regaining his form. The Titans are in the same boat as the Colts....I'm just not sure if Mariota will ever become their Luck or Watson. The Texans are good at the moment b/c those three teams are down, the Texans are not health issues away from regaining their dominance. The Texans have horrible talent on the OL for the most part, a poor running game, aging CB's and injured one's that don't make the position better with their return. For good merit, O'Brien is the albatross around this offense' neck b/c of his absolute desire to think he's a great OC.
At this point, as a Texans fan, I can only hope that Gaine can obtain better talent than O'Brien and his staff can under-coach or under-scheme.
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Scooter
Funky
Nobody wants a Texans offensive lineman, throw that out. Clowney however keeps building and improving in spite of the doom that has been put on him. If I could trade Clowney for a first I'd take it in a heartbeat, and turn that directly to Arizona for Pat Pete. We come out even with Mercilus taking that spot (cheaper), and acquire a desperately needed corner without losing the picks needed to draft linemen.
Or JDC for PP would work. I'd even throw in a 4th
Scooter
Funky
Essentially the same, but yes. If we could find a way to work JDC for Pat Pete - either directly or not (no pressure Gaine) - we could improve the team, save money, lock up a first team all-pro, and keep our picks. And we may actually be stronger with Mercilus being a better pair to Watt, as well as putting one of our safeties into the box instead of floating Mercilus in unnatural situations.
Shishkabob
All Pro
Why would a team that is going to be in the bottom 3 of the league, that is just starting their rebuild trade for a guy they are going to have to pay a ton of money to keep, for another star who they have under a very friendly contract? If they do trade PP it's going to be for picks most likely maybe a young player still under contract for awhile, but I can't see any scenario where they would want Clowney.
If you trade JDC this season you are telling your team you are punting on the season, I don't care if you work another deal to get PP in here. Trading JDC is throwing the towel in on this season, he is to important for our defense, in both the run and pass game. Just go back to the Titans game this year, yea their Gabbert lead offense didn't fair all that well against us, but when they needed a drive, when they had to move the ball to regain the lead they attacked right where Clowney would be. Mercilus is a good player, he is not on the same level as JDC though.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
Shishkabob, my fear is the towel the Texans would be throwing in on this season would only be expediting the obvious......a disappointing end to the 2019 season either at the conclusion of the regular season or the first round of the playoffs. Have you seen something in the past 4 weeks that would have you feel that the Texans are going to make a Super Bowl push? Unfortunately, they only get till 30 Oct to determine which way this season goes.
Shishkabob
All Pro
No I haven't, but to the players they are still in it. Throwing in the towel the week they took back first place in the division with still over half the season to go is a sure fire way to lose the locker room, and probably ensure key guys that we need to re-sign on this team go elsewhere and probably keep other outside free agents away. Barring an injury Clowney's trade value isn't going to decrease after the season from what it is now. If they don't want to sign him long term, franchise and trade him then. But you don't tell your players who are in first place that you don't believe in them.
Texansphan
Football connoisseur
Never implied otherwise - for example I did mention his talent.
He does however, have excellent protection from his line - you see it week in, week out.
My name ain't Bob but if I may?
I am seeing a slow improvement from week to week. If the oline can continue to improve on helping out in the run game, then that will gradually open up the passing game.
The idea is that if things can continue to look up and we can stay reasonably healthy and make the playoffs - where oftentimes anything can happen.
Maybe but if we don't we are then stuck between a rock and a hard place with the decision to either franchise JD or reach an agreement for a longer-term deal after the 2018 season.
We've had many discussions on this subject, but isn't the trade deadline only a week away so we will know soon about any decision to trade Clowney ?
Shishkabob
All Pro
It's really not a rock and a hard place. A team that is going to wan to trade for Clowney now is going to want to sign him long term anyways, so if you are set on trading him you franchise him after the season and trade him to a team who wants to sign him long term, if the Texans don't plan on doing it. We are not in fire sale mode, we are currently in first place of our division with a good shot at the playoffs with how our schedule looks, you do not trade away one of your top 3 or 4 players mid season unless you plan on tanking and starting a rebuild
Yes but there's still the concern and uncertainty re his injury status over the next couple years as long as he's on our roster. Thankfully he seems to be currently fit and healthy but several folks including one or two on this board who's opinions we value highly believe he's basically playing on borrowed time right now.
Remember this is the same guy who had that controversial micro-fracture surgery awhile back.
Texansphan
Football connoisseur
Another thought is that JJ is not getting any younger so a quality pass rusher like Clowney, who is already up to NFL speed and familiar with our system is a no brainer.
Better to have two premier rushers in case one goes down. It also leaves a quandary for defensive schemes as it is dangerous to have to constantly double two players.
It is also worth noting that DJ Reader oftentimes needs doubling as well - which bodes well on downs when a big push and pass rush is required.
Hervoyel
BUENO!
This.
Scooter
Funky
Because they'd be getting a 25 year old elite defensive end on a new long term contract. If you're rebuilding, that's step 1.
I don't think it's throwing in the towel at all, but I am a lot higher on Mercilus than most. He's not quite as good a Clowney of course, but IMO we'd come out even with a better edge pass rush and nickel packages.
Shishkabob
All Pro
Mercilus is not a better edge rusher than Clowney. Plus right now Mercilus is playing a very valuable role in our defense that if you moved Clowney would take Merc out of that role, and leave a hole. Merc has played a huge part in covering a lot of the stuff in the flats, and underneath routes that were killing us early in the season, and seasons passed. He has developed that part of his game very well, and you lose that value by just making him rush every down. Also the Cards have a very good, young DE on a long term contract through 2021 currently in Chandler Jones they have no need to spend money on another
and trading away one of your top 5 players for a future draft pick is punting on a season
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Rich Schmidt
Myopicone
Give that extra second rounder and if they want a DL where we are fairly stout. If they bite, PP would be so good here ball hawking. I would not dangle any of our key assets. We need to hold back draft powder for the OL. DW4 cannot keep taking this beating and it is easier to get a CB then a OL. We probably need to get several OL to hit on one good one, where CB seems easier to hit on, except KJo is made of glass
Rich Schmidt
Myopicone
Give that extra second rounder and if they want a DL where we are fairly stout throw in a Blackson or such. If they bite, PP would be so good here ball hawking. I would not dangle any of our key assets. We need to hold back draft powder for the OL. DW4 cannot keep taking this beating and it is easier to get a CB then a OL. We probably need to get several OL to hit on one good one, where CB seems easier to hit on, except KJo is made of glass
Shishkabob
All Pro
Saints called Arizona about Peterson, and then made the trade for Apple. Realistically the Saints, without their 1st and 3rd this year, didn't have the draft capital to make a trade even if Arizona would be willing to play ball
What's your source for that?
beerlover
Hall of Fame
https://www.google.com/amp/www.espn...-eli-apple-trade-new-york-giants?platform=amp
Here is one link that supports his claim.
Here is one link that supports his claim.
I wasn't disputing his claim
Shishkabob
All Pro
Can't believe what I am going to say but I think there is a chance for the Texans to go to the Super Bowl. If you make it to the playoffs anything can happen especially with DW as QB. In past years with our QB I didn't feel that way. If the Texans get healthy DW, Foreman Coutee,others and stay healthy and pick up a couple key players who knows. With DW, Hopkins, and the Defense weirder things have happened. It would help if BOB would be a positive factor instead of an anchor.
I don't know enough about JD's health to make an educated call on his chances of finishing healthy but there is a reason for him to play hard this season. If he can stay healthy I think his trade value will go up, not down. Of course if he goes down again then........... I would roll the dice and keep him unless we got a great deal. A solid one and something else.
I would not give up our future to get big name players though. I still have to believe there are better OL out there that we can get cheaply or that are on the practice squad.
Maybe not. Just my thoughts
I don't know enough about JD's health to make an educated call on his chances of finishing healthy but there is a reason for him to play hard this season. If he can stay healthy I think his trade value will go up, not down. Of course if he goes down again then........... I would roll the dice and keep him unless we got a great deal. A solid one and something else.
I would not give up our future to get big name players though. I still have to believe there are better OL out there that we can get cheaply or that are on the practice squad.
Maybe not. Just my thoughts
edromeo
Rookie
Never left, where'd you go?
I think Wats is playing much better then many realize.
If I thought he was the missing piece to make this team a true contender I'd be right there with you.
Even if I thought adding him would lead to more short fields like last Sunday, I'd be with you.
I'd still like to get him, for all the reasons you said. But that's too steep for me. JDC, sure. Our 2nd sure.
JDC or our 2nd & maybe a 2020 pick. But no more than that.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
I read a good piece on CBS Sports about potential trades before the deadline. They surmised the Texans should be seller's since their 4-3 record does not indicate they're a really good team. The Texans are not a player or two away from challenging the Patriots, Chiefs, Chargers, Steelers or Ravens this season or next...if we applied some unbiased reality to this situation, the Texans need a mini-rebuild. This starts from the HC straight down to the Depth Chart......mini-rebuild!, may be what some y'all may be thinking. I think there are assets worth building around from a talent and financial standpoint. The Texans are in need of another couple of drafts that would be on the same level excellence as the first one Gaine executed.
If I were to initiate a sell-off of some the teams assets, it's not like I would be tearing apart an elite team or SB contender......I'd be assessing the future of this team based on a record that shows 4-3 but could just as easily be 2-5. Also, it would be a different matter if this team was full of 1 and 2 year players as well as a rookie HC......they're not, this team is playing under a 5 year coaching staff and many veteran players. This is not a Championship caliber team, not really close unfortunately.
I would sit O'Brien down if I were Gaine and make him map out his offense to me. Then I would make him commit to this offense by asking him to tell me what type of players should be pursued in the draft and/or FA to make his system successful. I would then let him know that if his overall program proves to have any weaknesses at any coaching position, including OC, he would be held 100% responsible and could be fired for any failures within his staff, if he doesn't initiate a proactive move before it becomes apparent to anyone else in the FO.
I'm not sold on this current 4-3 record and my biggest concern, 9-7 is just good enough to leave everything as is b/c like seasons past, this 9-7 record will prove to be an aberration not the foundation of greater things to come. I would like to see more picks in 2019 and 2020 for Brian Gaine to work with and maybe even a new HC if Gaine could get McNair on board with a much needed change.
If I were to initiate a sell-off of some the teams assets, it's not like I would be tearing apart an elite team or SB contender......I'd be assessing the future of this team based on a record that shows 4-3 but could just as easily be 2-5. Also, it would be a different matter if this team was full of 1 and 2 year players as well as a rookie HC......they're not, this team is playing under a 5 year coaching staff and many veteran players. This is not a Championship caliber team, not really close unfortunately.
I would sit O'Brien down if I were Gaine and make him map out his offense to me. Then I would make him commit to this offense by asking him to tell me what type of players should be pursued in the draft and/or FA to make his system successful. I would then let him know that if his overall program proves to have any weaknesses at any coaching position, including OC, he would be held 100% responsible and could be fired for any failures within his staff, if he doesn't initiate a proactive move before it becomes apparent to anyone else in the FO.
I'm not sold on this current 4-3 record and my biggest concern, 9-7 is just good enough to leave everything as is b/c like seasons past, this 9-7 record will prove to be an aberration not the foundation of greater things to come. I would like to see more picks in 2019 and 2020 for Brian Gaine to work with and maybe even a new HC if Gaine could get McNair on board with a much needed change.
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TheRealJoker
Hall of Fame
Two players i’d make a move on:
Kelechi Osemele all pro LG if able to get for a 3rd or 4th. Would be a major help to Davenport protecting DW4’s blindside.
Patrick Peterson of course. Will probably take a 1st and another pick or player to make happen but a boy can dream.
Kelechi Osemele all pro LG if able to get for a 3rd or 4th. Would be a major help to Davenport protecting DW4’s blindside.
Patrick Peterson of course. Will probably take a 1st and another pick or player to make happen but a boy can dream.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
I'd still make an inexpensive play for Washington Redskins RB, Samaje Perine. I'd offer the Redskins a RD6 to take him off their hands or trade them Ervin straight-up. I think Perine would arrive with a massive chip on his shoulder.
Texansphan
Football connoisseur
Perrine looked dangerous running in the games I saw - runs hard.
I would, the Texans wont
The Saints/Pats/Cowbys/Jags etc... have/will
The Saints/Pats/Cowbys/Jags etc... have/will
P1- The Texans have placed themselves in no man's land again. I suspect that the Texans are willing to get and try to get lucky with the cast of characters that they have.
P2-The history of the Texans show they are most likely to stay pat when they are contending for the division title. If we are to be surprised it with acquiring something not selling
P3- What makes you think BOB and Gaine are not on the same page regarding the offense...most importantly Gaine does NOT have the authority to fire BOB 9ifhave read correctly) .
P4- Not whether or not we are sold, the Texans view of 4-3 and the division lead is what matters. We have multi history of seeing how they react when in this position.
Yes, in short looking alot like same spit different year...
I agree with much of this.
But they will still be able to find players if they finish 9-7. I'm betting on Gaine finding 4 guys that will be starters or atleast really good depth pieces after seeing how he did without 1st or 2nd rd picks last yr, even if they finish 9-7.
I'm willing to give Gaine/BOB a couple of yrs before judging BOB. I personally think the team is talent deficient due to the former regime. (He Gone) I want to give the Gaine/BOB regime a fair chance to succeed and firing BOB after this season or next as long as the team is showing progress (Which they are) I'm good with the current course the team is on. BOB does need to hire an OC which I think will happen this offseason (Ryan) and be more of a risk taker late in games. I'm not sure that's going to happen.
The contract extension and the way they approached the previous off season suggest that this regime will get those couple of years barring a utter disaster which is not happening in 2019
Texansphan
Football connoisseur
P3 - Gaine is a different fish from Smith.
It will be interesting to see what unfolds.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
Has anything changed in O'Brien's Coaching ability over the past 5 seasons that makes anyone comfortable with him continuing as HC for another 2 seasons, while keeping Devlin as his OL Coach, maintaining the OC roll, and Gaine at the helm. I just don't get the warm and fuzzies in regards to O'Brien relinquishing his control of the OC position or him and Devlin somehow figuring out how to coach up the next two season's worth of draft picks.
I know I'm being tough.....but damn, there's been zero growth and only a slow fall backwards. Far better coaches have been released/fired for less.
Change that you want is coming, Ryan will be OC next yr. (The Pats way is to give the future OC that's already on staff a couple of yrs to grow on the job before promoting them to OC.)
I dont know if Devlin will be gone but he should be.
Biggest change is Gaine knows what kind of players BOB wants and will draft accordingly.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
I'd really be happy with Ryan as OC as well.
cuppacoffee
Resident Grouch
Article on NFL.com Suggesting moves for each AFC team in the league.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...e-deadline-one-move-for-each-afc-team-to-make
HOUSTON TEXANS: Buy wide receiver Demaryius Thomas ... or Jordy Nelson. Deshaun Watson is giving a Herculean effort right now, going as far as traveling 12 hours on a bus so he could avoid swelling in his injured ribcage and continue to play hurt. It worked, but in watching Houston's games, it's painfully apparent that outside of DeAndre Hopkins, Will Fuller and the occasional breakout game from Keke Coutee, the Texans could use some help on offense. Since there isn't any decent offensive line help available this year, the next-best option is to add another experienced target for Watson. Enter Thomas or Nelson. Both should be offered to prospective buyers, with Thomas acknowledging his time in Denver is nearly up and Oakland ready to trade everyone but the quarterback. Potential compensation: Fourth-round pick (for Thomas) or fifth-round pick (for Nelson).
Another suggestion : BUFFALO BILLS: Sell running back LeSean McCoy. It's time to face facts: The 2-5 Bills aren't sniffing the postseason this year, and the 30-year-old McCoy isn't getting any younger. A concussion suffered in Week 7 might complicate his tradability, but McCoy deserves to be freed from a Buffalo team that overachieved last year and is a car sliding across a track and growing ever closer to smashing into the wall. Why should McCoy spend the last of his best years in such a situation? It sounds as though the Bills are asking for a king's ransom for the running back, who's still among the league's best. It's their prerogative to do so, but I'm not sure a team will bite in the same way Dallas proffered a first-rounder for Amari Cooper. That makes this move less likely, even if it is the right thing to do for McCoy. Potential compensation: Second- and fifth-round picks.
Would anyone here make either move?
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...e-deadline-one-move-for-each-afc-team-to-make
HOUSTON TEXANS: Buy wide receiver Demaryius Thomas ... or Jordy Nelson. Deshaun Watson is giving a Herculean effort right now, going as far as traveling 12 hours on a bus so he could avoid swelling in his injured ribcage and continue to play hurt. It worked, but in watching Houston's games, it's painfully apparent that outside of DeAndre Hopkins, Will Fuller and the occasional breakout game from Keke Coutee, the Texans could use some help on offense. Since there isn't any decent offensive line help available this year, the next-best option is to add another experienced target for Watson. Enter Thomas or Nelson. Both should be offered to prospective buyers, with Thomas acknowledging his time in Denver is nearly up and Oakland ready to trade everyone but the quarterback. Potential compensation: Fourth-round pick (for Thomas) or fifth-round pick (for Nelson).
Another suggestion : BUFFALO BILLS: Sell running back LeSean McCoy. It's time to face facts: The 2-5 Bills aren't sniffing the postseason this year, and the 30-year-old McCoy isn't getting any younger. A concussion suffered in Week 7 might complicate his tradability, but McCoy deserves to be freed from a Buffalo team that overachieved last year and is a car sliding across a track and growing ever closer to smashing into the wall. Why should McCoy spend the last of his best years in such a situation? It sounds as though the Bills are asking for a king's ransom for the running back, who's still among the league's best. It's their prerogative to do so, but I'm not sure a team will bite in the same way Dallas proffered a first-rounder for Amari Cooper. That makes this move less likely, even if it is the right thing to do for McCoy. Potential compensation: Second- and fifth-round picks.
Would anyone here make either move?
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Shishkabob
All Pro
I've only been saying this since the offseason lol. They did the same thing with him that they did with Vrabel, teams showed interest they had a private meeting, and he decided to stay on board. I will actually feel much better about this staff and possibly OB when he has an OC. There is just to much to oversee as an NFL head coach, especially a relatively green one like O'Brien, to try to also be a coordinator as well.
I agree RB is a weak area. Don't expect much from Foreman. Took him 10 games last year to get in shape, recovering from ACL just don't see him really helping much.
Haven't seen enough of Perine to make an educated statement but they are weak at RB. Maybe a 7th not much more. Pope looked good in preseason but that is preseason.
WR also weak. Need to keep in mind Fuller and Coutee will be iffy all season or at least that is what the Texans should think.
Obviously OL.
We gave away a f&(^%ng 2nd round draft choice to get rid of the OZ.
Haven't seen enough of Perine to make an educated statement but they are weak at RB. Maybe a 7th not much more. Pope looked good in preseason but that is preseason.
WR also weak. Need to keep in mind Fuller and Coutee will be iffy all season or at least that is what the Texans should think.
Obviously OL.
We gave away a f&(^%ng 2nd round draft choice to get rid of the OZ.
Shishkabob
All Pro
Well I guess PatP will not be on the move. He has now made me a liar about being a liar.
https://twitter.com/P2/status/1055152232721612800
https://twitter.com/P2/status/1055152232721612800
TheRealJoker
Hall of Fame
I suspect Texans will be in the market after Thursday’s game. Probably locked in on the game and don’t want to make any roster moves... especially since dealing with an injury at a position I want them to target (OG)...
Kelechi Osemele is exactly the type of OL the Texans need if they insist on running Miller up the middle. He would be a tremendous acquisition if he could be had for a 3rd-4th round pick. All pro OGs don’t grow on trees and Raiders appear to be having a fire sale.
Kelechi Osemele is exactly the type of OL the Texans need if they insist on running Miller up the middle. He would be a tremendous acquisition if he could be had for a 3rd-4th round pick. All pro OGs don’t grow on trees and Raiders appear to be having a fire sale.
I would definitely entertain packages that included Clowney. Especially if you can get P2 in an even swap. I'd be working the phones using Clowney to try to address every single position of need. As far as players that may be available, I'd make a hard run at P2.
Draft picks are only as good as the person making them. I'll happily give up draft picks for proven NFL talent. It's trading draft pick for more draft picks that gets me. The draft is a total crapshoot.
TheRealJoker
Hall of Fame
Broncos RBs is a perfect example... 3rd round pick is taking a back seat to the UDFA. Granted there are positions with a higher proven success rate the higher you draft (QB for example) but still...
Lots of comments on trades made in the last few years, but from the Herschel Walker mega-trade to 2013, the were very, very few in-season NFL trades. The last few years have been an aberration from the norm during that time period. So have a lot of other traditional rarities. Missed PATs, going for 2, going for it on 4th down.