Second Honeymoon
Hall of Fame
quoted for truth. its getting REALLY old.
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quoted for truth. its getting REALLY old.
Second Honeymoon
Hall of Fame
gotta agree 100% with you on that one. mario's level of effort has been bad but he has been held by many of the OL and TE that he has 'battled'. most of the sacks that I have seen in the preseason on NFLN have been from delayed blitzes by DBs coming free. not many DL are getting around the corner and hitting the QB so far in most of the games I have seen (way too many...getting burned out on preseason)
quicksilver
Overweight
I fear that this situation is feeding itself. Big time.
Everyone but Bush and Franklin, with healthy dose of N.D.Kalu, need to leave Mario the hell alone. Twenty voices in his ear can't do anything but breed doubt and confusion. He doesn't necessarily need someone in his face--different people respond to different stimuli. Ask Parcells. Ask any competent school teacher.
Everyone but Bush and Franklin, with healthy dose of N.D.Kalu, need to leave Mario the hell alone. Twenty voices in his ear can't do anything but breed doubt and confusion. He doesn't necessarily need someone in his face--different people respond to different stimuli. Ask Parcells. Ask any competent school teacher.
FirstTexansFan
The Unknown Fan
Has the regular season begun yet? Cause all this Negative Nancy talk has me wanting to buy the lot of you, a box of Midol. Start screaming and whining when it counts 
Texans_Chick
Utopian Dreamer
Even if the Frank Bush-Richard Smith tandem is what Kubiak wanted as his first choice last year, there is nothing with them that makes me think--yeah, these are the guys I want running my defense.
Jethro Franklin is the defensive line coach. (with an assist from Bush) He got canned from the Tampa Bay. Rod Marinelli was their defensive line coach, then he left for Detroit. Then Franklin came from USC, and then got canned by the Bucs after their D line had a crap pass rush--including the Bucs lowest sack totals since 1995. (He coached the line at GB between 2000-2004). He was signed for a two year contract with TB, but was canned after one year.
Sometimes fans don't know all the reasons why particular guys were picked to be coaches, but from what I've seen, I've never been comfortable with this staff having a consistant proven defensive philosophy.
Some years there are some really good coaches available to be an assistant. Last year wasn't the bestest year to pick.
The Dream
All Pro
no, but some these people sticking up for Mario will be the first to point a finger at everything VY is doing in the preseason....peoples main beef is that Mario showed us close to nothing last year, and although it is preseason it would be nice to actually get past the O-Line once when you were our # 1 draft pick....the guy is looking worst than avg. out there on the field.
Goldensilence
hipster elite
It's only preseason. Lay off the trigger fingers.
threetoedpeete- excellent posts.
threetoedpeete- excellent posts.
I call it like I see it. Mario sucks right now. He may come around some day but he should have a better showing than what he has had so far. For everyone saying to wait for the regular season I say bs. He should be showing way more effort right now. True competitors hate getting beat at anything and will do what ever it takes to get better. Just look how Jacoby carries himself. I watched him on the sidelines during the Cardinals game right after he went up for the jump ball in the endzone. He didnt come down with it but he was big time upset about it. Everything about him tells me he is a competitor. I just don't know about Mario. Maybe if he had someone competing with him for his starting position he would perform. I don't believe the team will bench him because of what they paid for him until they have a legit replacement. I agree with giving Mario time but lets see some kind of improvement here. He knows he has the job thats his problem!
The1ApplePie
Hall of Fame
I saw Mario attempt a swim move and fall on his face at least twice, maybe 3 times. Shows a guy that got by in his career by being able to just shove guys over because of physical superiority. Now, that he is probably weaker than 90% of the guys he goes against, he has no clue what to do.
aye yi yi...not that excuse...errrr....'reason' again!
Meaningless outcome. Individual performances in a glorified scrimmage are all these games are worth at the end of the day.
And with Mario, it was said best by Vinny:
I'm not jumping off cliffs or yelling bust, but this take hits the nail on the head. I find it hard to believe that what we see in pre-season is not an indication of sorts. If Mario is failing to beat his man even once, I do not see some magical switch that gets flipped for regular season and he suddenly turns into The Beast.
R
real
Guest
I ddon't think it was.
There was one play where MArio rushed up field and litterally fell down and slid on his arse...He looked awful on that particular play...Terrible technique...Terrible agility....He just looked awful...
On other plays I found myslef looking at Mario being one of the furthest D-linemen from the QB...Looking over the O-linemens head like a guy looking over a wall trying to see what was going on "over there"....
You can check my post history...
I've always said I though Travis Johnson was a good ball player and I've always wanted Babin to get more time on the field because of his pass rushing...really...go back and check...
nice try though...
R
real
Guest
I think it's part mental part physical...
Pantherstang84
@rolisrgti06
I do.
I don't want to. Despite using your exagerration as the example, the post was directed at all of the Mario whiners.
Thank you.
What about the metaphysical aspect?
Ask for the QB sack.
Believe you will get the QB sack.
Collect the QB sack.
It's as easy as A-B-C. I'm shocked that QBs aren't sacked on every play, it's so easy.
I think we're still seeing this Mario...
(from Scouts Inc.)
Now this info was available at the time of the draft; in fact, some guys even mentioned it. So should we be mad at Mario for still being Mario? Or should we be mad at the scouting dept., Casserly, et. al. for not doing enough homework??
I'm just askin'?
Wolf
100% Texan
Second Honeymoon
Hall of Fame
personally I blame McNair and Kubiak. Casserley wanted to draft Bush. Casserley liked Mario but even he wasn't stupid enough to decide to Mario over Bush. Only someone as meddling as McNair could greenlight an idea that horrible...and Kubiak gets blame for being too weak to demand that we draft the best player available and not just the cleanest or most signable. At the end of the day, its all about McNair being ignorant, stubborn, and cheap and not wanting Bush after his family's housing situation during his USC time.
utahmark
markbeth
Napa Auto Parts
Veteran
i really hope we dont have another David Carr situation brewing with Mario Williams we all want him to do good but he sure isn't helping his case @ all.
BattleRedToro
Thread Killer
There was one that you must know about since you and I have discussed this on other threads. That one being Jim Bates, a highly respected Defensive Coordinator with ties to Mike Sherman, or at the least Green Bay, and now with ties to Denver as well since he has been hired this year as Mike Shanahan's new Defensive Coordinator. I remember the objection to him being brought in being about money. With coaches salaries not counting towards the salary cap it makes me sick to think that the Texans lost out on a much more qualified Defensive Coordinator then Richard Smith, or even Frank Bush for that matter, over money.
Another defensive-minded coach with ties to both Gary Kubiak and Mike Sherman, that has come to my mind many times is former Texas A&M Head Coach R.C. Slocum. Say what you will about his overly predictable offenses when he was the ATM Head Coach, but one thing was certain he could run a hell of a good defense. I know some are going to say but he was only a college coach and he won't be able to translate that success to the NFL. Those people probably don't realize that Marty Schottenheimer came to R.C. Slocum before to get pointers on running defense.
Guys and gals I think WE HAVE TO ADMIT that Mario is not as good as he should be for the #1 overall pick in the draft and we need to start managing our expectations of him accordingly.
It is not his fault that he was drafted that highly and I'm sure he is doing the best that he can. We all know the draft is a crap shoot and I believe it is obvious that MW just is NOT the impact player we all hoped he would be.
Now let's just sit back and admit he was not worthy of the #1 pick, not a knock on him but, those who thought he was, and allow him to develop into a solid, not spectacular DE.
EVERYBODY is going to say that we should not say ANYTHING about Amobi because he is so young and he has only had 2 pre-season games.
But, as the #10 draft pick, he SHOULD show SOMETHING, ala Adam Carriker, and others. We have street FA's who show us more and with HIS PEDIGREE we should have seen something.
Again, it is not his fault we drafted him as highly as we did, it is the FO and coaching staff. So far, he has pretty much been overmatched at DT and he hasn't really shown anything for us to feel he warranted the #10 pick in the draft.
So, I believe we need to adjust our expectations of AO, too. I don't think he will ever be a very good DT in this league. In fact, I believe they need to put him at DE, leave him there, play him sparingly, and maybe he will develop into a good pash rushing DE in 2-4 years.
Bottom line is that MW and AO are what they are and we can't make them stars because of where they were drafted. It has to come from them and I just don't see it on the field.
It is not his fault that he was drafted that highly and I'm sure he is doing the best that he can. We all know the draft is a crap shoot and I believe it is obvious that MW just is NOT the impact player we all hoped he would be.
Now let's just sit back and admit he was not worthy of the #1 pick, not a knock on him but, those who thought he was, and allow him to develop into a solid, not spectacular DE.
EVERYBODY is going to say that we should not say ANYTHING about Amobi because he is so young and he has only had 2 pre-season games.
But, as the #10 draft pick, he SHOULD show SOMETHING, ala Adam Carriker, and others. We have street FA's who show us more and with HIS PEDIGREE we should have seen something.
Again, it is not his fault we drafted him as highly as we did, it is the FO and coaching staff. So far, he has pretty much been overmatched at DT and he hasn't really shown anything for us to feel he warranted the #10 pick in the draft.
So, I believe we need to adjust our expectations of AO, too. I don't think he will ever be a very good DT in this league. In fact, I believe they need to put him at DE, leave him there, play him sparingly, and maybe he will develop into a good pash rushing DE in 2-4 years.
Bottom line is that MW and AO are what they are and we can't make them stars because of where they were drafted. It has to come from them and I just don't see it on the field.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
You can clearly see he's thinking too much out there which goes back to what Xtru... said in a previous mario thread about his mental game.
He's yet to find that position he's comfortable in where he can play the run & pass equally effective.
He was held ALOT but d-linemen get held pretty much every play... hopefully we get those calls during the regular season.
In all fairness to him though, the d-line as a whole ain't doing much. If Mario's going to be doubled alot, other guys MUST step up to take the heat off of him.
All in all, i'm looking at his body of work last year as a rookie, & i have a hard time believing that he'll be worse than that, I predicted about 8.5 sacks a while ago. I believe In all of the preseason last year, he only had 1 play where he stood out against the rams so i'm not going to panic just yet. Could he have Jeff Bagwell syndrome where he doesn't perform well in the preseason but turns it up a bit in the regular season? Some of us can only hope.
He's yet to find that position he's comfortable in where he can play the run & pass equally effective.
He was held ALOT but d-linemen get held pretty much every play... hopefully we get those calls during the regular season.
In all fairness to him though, the d-line as a whole ain't doing much. If Mario's going to be doubled alot, other guys MUST step up to take the heat off of him.
All in all, i'm looking at his body of work last year as a rookie, & i have a hard time believing that he'll be worse than that, I predicted about 8.5 sacks a while ago. I believe In all of the preseason last year, he only had 1 play where he stood out against the rams so i'm not going to panic just yet. Could he have Jeff Bagwell syndrome where he doesn't perform well in the preseason but turns it up a bit in the regular season? Some of us can only hope.
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
Could be the worst post I have seen in years.
R
real
Guest
What a terrible outlook on life...
It must be a dark and grim place you live in....
I'm not sure what would cause you to believe that Mario and Amobi "can't" be good ball players....
There have been so many variations of successful athletes in every sporting event that it's almost asanine to suggest that a player that has made it that far "can't" be successful....You have your athletes that aren't that bright but are athletic specimens that have been successful, and then you have your really smart and instinctive guys that didn't have an athletic prowess who have been successful...They can "do it", but they just need to find the right combination...Mario and Amobi's problems are on the totally opposite end of the spectrum...Amobi needs to get stronger...If you really watch the kid and keep an eye on the little things he does you can see a kid with a great motor...I repeat...great....good feet...good hands...and he's heady...he's aware of the situation and what is going on as far as the play is concerned...The guy is 20 yrs. old...By time he is 22 1/2 he will be one of the premier DT's in this leauge if he can stay healthy.....Mario..his mental approach is out of whack...I knew that when he gave his answer to whether or not he hates his opponents...
When I see Mario I don't see a player who's not trying hard, but I do see a player who doesn't want it...He doesn't look thirsty for the QB's sweat...That's something hard to overcome as a player because that's just something that normally comes naturally....But that doesn't mean he can't be an effective football player...
And with A.O. I just flat out disagree...I think the guy is going to be stud...JMO....
HoustonFrog
Dallas Frog
Sorry, this just made me laugh. It was a sad post.
Cjeremy635
Overtraining
I'm not freakin' out yet......just a little nervous. I didn't read through all these pages, so I don't know if it was posted yet, but these are the things I noticed. I watched the game twice:
1) Mario was held a lot, but it was never called and he should have tried harder to beat it.
2) He was on the ground way too often. He would run to engage the offensive lineman, slip, and fall on his rear. This automatically took him out of the play. I saw this way too much.
3) On the snap, he would run in and look, then nothing would happen so he would engage his blocker in front of him. I saw this constantly. It was really weird to see. There wasn't much effort on his part, atleast what I saw. Without seeing it, this item is hard to explain.
4) Wrong decisions. I saw on a few plays that he must have read inside run, went that way and the ball went around where he should have been at. I don't think it went that way because he forced it to either.
Hopefully he will get better over these last 2 games and maybe we will see more from him when the defense actually starts game planning. Who knows, but there are way too many positives for me to look forward to than to worry about his play or the play of a few others.
1) Mario was held a lot, but it was never called and he should have tried harder to beat it.
2) He was on the ground way too often. He would run to engage the offensive lineman, slip, and fall on his rear. This automatically took him out of the play. I saw this way too much.
3) On the snap, he would run in and look, then nothing would happen so he would engage his blocker in front of him. I saw this constantly. It was really weird to see. There wasn't much effort on his part, atleast what I saw. Without seeing it, this item is hard to explain.
4) Wrong decisions. I saw on a few plays that he must have read inside run, went that way and the ball went around where he should have been at. I don't think it went that way because he forced it to either.
Hopefully he will get better over these last 2 games and maybe we will see more from him when the defense actually starts game planning. Who knows, but there are way too many positives for me to look forward to than to worry about his play or the play of a few others.
HuttoKarl
Veteran
Defensive Linemen usually take a couple of years to adjust. That is pretty much fact. We have yet to throw a blitz in there to free things up for the D-Line as well. It is still too early to call anyone a bust or lose sleep over the lack of sacks in these preseason games. How many times did Chicago or Arizona get a sack on Schaub or Sage? Are there fans up in arms about their defensive players?
HJam72
Hall of Fame
I don't know, but probably, lol. They're probably posting, "The Texans have the worst O-line in forever and we didn't get sacks!"
I keep thinking about that too. I think our O is gonna give more up when it counts, and it stands to reason that our D will get more. I think Mario will have 6 or 7 this year--an improvement, but not enough to make us happy. Course, I'll change my mind one way or another after the Cowboys game.
Mr. White
Retired OLine Coach
I read the first few pages and it looks like the main excuse for the D-Line is that they were getting held.
Here's what I know about holding. I know there are plenty other guys that probably know more. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
All D-Linemen get held. The O-Linemen only get called for it when they are grabbing the guy's outside shoulder. In other words, they only get called for it when they make it too obvious. It's on the D-Lineman to find a way to beat the hold.
From HBO's "Hard Knocks."
Rookie Turk McBride: "What do you do when guys are holding you and pulling you down?"
Veteran Jared Allen: "Kick 'em."
Here's what I know about holding. I know there are plenty other guys that probably know more. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
All D-Linemen get held. The O-Linemen only get called for it when they are grabbing the guy's outside shoulder. In other words, they only get called for it when they make it too obvious. It's on the D-Lineman to find a way to beat the hold.
From HBO's "Hard Knocks."
Rookie Turk McBride: "What do you do when guys are holding you and pulling you down?"
Veteran Jared Allen: "Kick 'em."
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Not true at all. I can remember at least 1 instance where CC & a CB came in on a blitz & basically stopped at the line once someone got in front of them.
Mr. White
Retired OLine Coach
In respect to the D-Line, one thing also to consider is that the Texans may be drafting guys that might be physically gifted, but not yet emotionally mature.
The guys that they're going up against know every trick in the book.
I think that it's too much to expect from a 19 or a 21 year-old to instantly know how to play against experienced O-Linemen.
By the time that the NFL slows down enough for them, it might be a contract year.
The guys that they're going up against know every trick in the book.
I think that it's too much to expect from a 19 or a 21 year-old to instantly know how to play against experienced O-Linemen.
By the time that the NFL slows down enough for them, it might be a contract year.
FirstTexansFan
The Unknown Fan
<--Me cooking a big of batch of crow....it'll have to simmer at least 2yrs, but alot of you will be eating a portion, I'm making my guest list right now....
You're right in that Mario needs to beat the hold. He needs to become better at hand fighting. I'd suggest martial arts training. Too bad Mr. Miyagi is no longer around.
But, Mario was blatantly held on numerous occasions. On Leinart's touchdown throw, Gandy had a fist full of jersey. On another play, you can see Kalu lifting Mario's jersey back over his shoulder pad. To be fair, the refs weren't calling holding on either side of the ball.
Another suggestion would be for Mario to invest in some custom fit jerseys. It needs to fit tighter so that the blockers can't grab it so easily. I think he can afford that.
gjmac2
Waterboy
Interesting, xtruroyaltyx, I had not thought of that. But, I think your right. I think Babin at RE and Mario at LE might just be the answer.
The more I think about it, the more it makes sense. Mario is a 3-4 DE, or a LE in a 4-3. He is not Freeney, or Peppers, or even Bruce Smith. He is strong and thick, not quick and lean.
Mr. White
Retired OLine Coach
You're right in that Mario needs to beat the hold. He needs to become better at hand fighting. I'd suggest martial arts training. Too bad Mr. Miyagi is no longer around.
But, Mario was blatantly held on numerous occasions. On Leinart's touchdown throw, Gandy had a fist full of jersey. On another play, you can see Kalu lifting Mario's jersey back over his shoulder pad. To be fair, the refs weren't calling holding on either side of the ball.
Another suggestion would be for Mario to invest in some custom fit jerseys. It needs to fit tighter so that the blockers can't grab it so easily. I think he can afford that.
Randy White took up martial arts for the same reason. He started giving hand-fighting classes to Cowboys D-Linemen in the 90's. I think that he's still doing it. I read Greg Ellis learned it from him.
When the TV camera shows Mario's jersey at the end of a game, it's all wrinkled, crumpled, and tore up. It seems like it's already pretty tight when a game starts.
Xtru might be onto something by putting it on the coaches. I think if he were playing for KC, San Diego, or Pittsburgh, then he would probably be a terror.
You mean like....uhhhh...the coaches?
He's being played RDE regardless if it's the weak or strong side. He does not appear to be moving around the line based upon what the offense is doing. At least the first two pre-season games have been this way.
Second Honeymoon
Hall of Fame
it's not inside info, its called not being a moron and having common sense.
dont you have a carr jersey to pawn?
R
real
Guest
You mean like....uhhhh...the coaches?
He's being played RDE regardless if it's the weak or strong side. He does not appear to be moving around the line based upon what the offense is doing. At least the first two pre-season games have been this way.
tis really just a matter of preference...
you say tomato, I say tomato...
Second Honeymoon
Hall of Fame
just like your batch of crow for all us 'carr haters'. i am sure you had a fair share of leftovers.....
but if Mario becomes more than a bad football player I will be more than happy to eat your crow and ask for a second helping...I just wouldn't make too much or you may have trouble getting rid of it like your Carr batch you made.
Leahmic223
Veteran
I am sure real Texan fans will be ready to eat it, at least those without a agenda.
I am not too worried about him at all. As Dlinemen go, we all know it just takes awhile, so for me it is too early to worry.
But I feel like he is the new david carr...look how many threads pop up about him now and look how large they grow...
Vinny
shiny happy fan
He's just the new 60 million player in a league with a hard salary cap that isn't producing up to his level of pay.....and when your best players don't play up to your pay in the NFL your teams usually suck. Most of us would just like to see him win a few battles. I don't need to wait next year for that.
Leahmic223
Veteran
JaMarcus Russell is going to have a hard time. I know a few Raiders fans in my family(from california) and one of them already said he sucks and they should trade him.
If the Pressure is too much for Mario though, than obviously he isn't going to make it in this league.
I'll give him a few more seasons, he's won some battles last year in the regular season, so I am willing to let the guy grow more as a player and as a person. He's not a horrible player based on last season, and I get a feeling that some people think he's just flat out horrible.
Vinny
shiny happy fan
He hasn't even taken a snap, so that comment is just idiotic at best...Jamarcus Russell is a pure stud....at least he produced in College. Just because a person can open their keyster, doesn't mean they know what you are talking about.
Leahmic223
Veteran
I think JaMarcus can be good. Just from the Raider fans I know...some of them will wait, but I know a few that are tired of waiting to see when he is going to sign.
When he does though...it is going to be tons of money.
Vinny
shiny happy fan
well, sure...but we all knew that already.
Leahmic223
Veteran
He's going to have a lot of problems from the Fans because of the pressure I meant which is the same thing Mario has to go through now.
I am not saying don't bash the guy. I am just saying don't label him as bust until his time is up. It may not be this season, it may not be the next, but any season he can explode and all these hard times may be well worth the wait IF he does.
Vinny
shiny happy fan
we talk about what we see as we see it around here for the most part. You may want to wait 3-5 years to judge him but the seasons in the NFL are ridiculously short (only 8 home games a year)....stuff happens fast in the NFL...you either bring it or you don't. If he plays better in 3 years we will all notice it then.
FirstTexansFan
The Unknown Fan
I've always been the eternal optimist. I see the glass as half full, you see it as half empty. I prefer my method, less stress. Glad to see you have a good memory, but you failed to mention I ate that crow publicly. You remember to do the same LOL
Specnatz
Hall of Fame
Actually Russell was inconsistant for most of his college career, he did have a great second half last year year including a great bowl game. But that is the way it is coming out of college, all you have to do is produce one year and your labled a stud.
Of course we cannot have one damn single post without mentioning carr because he has everything to with ow Mario plays.