When do we end the Kareem experiment?

[GP]

Please show me where I said he had a bad day.

And I said that they were passing his way quite a bit on that last drive. I said either they were targeting him, really like Julio or were afraid of Joseph. Or maybe some combo of the three.

That said, on the td drive they had Julio beat Kareem to set them up down at the goal line.

Maybe I'm wrong, but in think all of Julio's completions came against Kareem. That's through out the game, not just on the last drive.

And yes I said they may have been targeting Kareem on that last drive. Please forgive me in advance.

You get lumped into the hater crowd because you're not 100% supportive of his position right from the get-go. You didn't commit one way or another, or at least not as loud and proud as he wanted you (and others) to do...so you earned your scorn by default.

That's what is so irritating. 76 can show 1,245 screen shots and I do ONE video and all hell breaks loose. The teacher couldn't handle being the pupil, which I figured would end up happening. It's not every day someone else comes in and takes what 76 does and quadruples its intended effect upon the masses here.

Obviously, I touched a nerve with him and what I am beginning to assume are other 'Bama fans who are not pleased with my critique of one of their guys.

We saw this with the I Love David Carr crowd, of which I was a member of until one day I noticed I was wearing the same "I Love David Carr" shirt as his family was wearing. Since then, I've learned to be a lot more OBJECTIVE about the Texans players.

It's possible that a 1st round draft pick is going to struggle. We've seen it with David Carr, Travis Johnson, and Amobi Okoye. What is telling, however, is that only NOW do you see Gary Kubiak abandoning the concept of a 1st rounder being given the starting role no matter what the 1st rounder's play looks like. Kareem is the first guy who is being held back for Remedial NFL Starter class by Kubiak.

Finally, the guy gets it. In a true Do or Die year, Gary Kubiak and Wade Phillips have understood that a guy like Kareem needs to get some clarity and just watch every now and then...not sat out completely, just in and out of the lineup and not made to be the hero all day long. But alas, this last paragraph will be ignored and only my stinging comments will be quoted and used against me.

I'm sure Kareem and his teammates were proud of him for hanging in there and not panicking. He got the game ball, and I nor anybody is going to take it away from him. Sometimes, a guy needs some public acknowledgment like that in order to take a bigger step up the ladder. It's a motivator, and he played decent that game with a pick and he got to his man on the last play.

 

[76Texan]

I know.

You must also know that I meant the same thing, LOL!

 

[GP]

Trust me, I do not miss any of your point; it is your hidden agenda that I'm pointing out!

Jackson played the first 2 series in the first half (4 plays).
Allen then played the next 2 series (8 plays).
Jaclson the played the next 2 series (13 plays).
Allen played the last series of the half (3 plays)

Jackson then played the first 2 series of the second half (19 plays)
Allen played the third series (12 plays).
On the last drive, Allen was hurt during the first play, Jackson played the last 7 snaps.

Somewhere during the game, Allen was inserted in for a couple of plays (while Jackson was also in there) after McCain whiffed on a play.

He has no hidden agenda. I have known rey for YEARS here, and I can tell you this about him: The guy will not agree with a person JUST to get along. He might like you and what you have to say on Topic A...but then he will just as readily argue with you about your take on Topic Z. Some people tend to align themselves with others and adopt the other person's stance on almost everything, and I haven't noticed rey doing that. He's not agenda-driven, IMO.

Me thinks you are projecting things onto rey that describe you instead.

Rey drifts in and out of conversations and actually seems to rarely have "a dog" in any fight on here. One of the more objective guys on this board, tbh.

Carry on, though.

 

[76Texan]

GP, stop putting words into my mouth please!

I have no problem with your vid nor other posters' vids and screen shots.
I go through them all as time allows.

So far I'm still on point.
What I said is that I like to see both Allen and Jackson competing for the job, may the best man win.

The best guy is starting and play more.

I don't care who the haters are.

All I know is that those who said Allen would be the starting CB have yet to be proven correct!

 

[GP]

GP, stop putting words into my mouth please!

I have no problem with your vid nor other posters' vids and screen shots.
I go through them all as time allows.

So far I'm still on point.
What I said is that I like to see both Allen and Jackson competing for the job, may the best man win.

The best guy is starting and play more.

I don't care who the haters are.

All I know is that those who said Allen would be the starting CB have yet to be proven correct!

The last three sentences prove it, 76.

1. "The best guy is starting"....Yet he doesn't play anymore than roughly half the snaps as his underling Jason Allen does.

2. You don't care who the haters are, but you attack them anyways and play all sorts of trump cards and trash talk those who aren't on board with "the best guy who is starting."

3. The "Nanny-Nanny-Boo-Boo!" final sentence is the death knell. If this were a mission on L.A. Noire, your interrogation would have been the first mission where the gamer is led through a tutorial to tell how to judge a witness's testimony.

I had a friend like this back in junior high, 76. He thought The Bash Brothers were gods on earth, and nobody dared to debate him on the matter. And if you did, you got "Nanny-Nanny-Boo-Boo!" treatment just like what you're doing.

I'm done (and the crowd said, "Hooooraaayyyy!!!" )

 

[76Texan]

For a guy who likes to present logic, you sure know how to use all kind of false logic in the book, LOL!

Ad hominem, circular, just name it!

Stay on the topic, GP.

Who's the starter?
Jackson!

Did you predic that Allen would get the starting nod?
If you did, you can wait some more!

Those are facts, and not trash talk!

 

[thunderkyss]

Ok, Julio makes another catch with Kareem all over him at about the 10 but it is called back because Julio stepped out of bounds. But they are either targeting Kareem or they are in love with Julio or they are scared of jo.

If you watch, Ryan looks at Roddy first a couple of times, but Jjo has him covered pretty good.

On this particular pass though, if you're going to credit to Allen for getting Julio out of bounds earlier, the same should go for Kj here. Kareem does a good job of not letting Julio go where he wants to go & therefore steps out of bounds.

It was really a pretty good battle, That play setting Atlanta up for their first touchdown, that was just a cleanly executed, well designed play. Kj could have played it be

 

[thunderkyss]

...after watching it I'm less impressed with what he did.

He looked up, located the ball and failed to put his body in between the receiver and the ball. Maybe he was afraid of pi, or maybe he was intimidated by the fact that Julio had made some nice plays on him on that drive and a couple earlier in the game but in all honestly that's a catch Julio should have made.

I do agree with this 100%

Kj shouldn't have been worried about a PI because he has as much right to the ball as Julio. He should have made a positive play on the ball instead of letting himself get easily pushed out of the way by Julio. Kj's eyes are clearly on the ball if there was going to be a PI it would have been on Julio.

Now you can disagree with that if you want, but I had to look again for myself and I think anyone saying Kareem is mostly the reason for the drop is incorrect.

But this is the NFL, where Bernard Pollards get credit (or should) for receivers alligator-arming passes thrown across the middle. If Kareem is not in the play, I believe Julio makes that catch. Whether it's a mental thing or not doesn't matter. If he's not having to push Kareem out of the way, if he's not having to jump & contort his body.

Andre made a heck of a catch last year against Washington in a pretty similar situation. We consider it a heck of a catch, because he had to fight for it. Take the DBs out of that play, it's still a nice catch, but not as memorable.

.

 

[thunderkyss]

By the way, big damn deal if he got a game ball.

It is a big deal that Kubiak gave him a game ball. I'm watching the game & I'm actually thinking Kareem has had better games. I don't necessarily agree with giving him a game ball, but I do believe if Gary & co. saw reason for it, then they saw reason for it.

He's had better opportunities to make a good "gesture" so I don't think that is what it was.

He's not special, yet, and the jury is still out on the issue of his improvement form last year to this year...give me a full season of the guy NOT splitting time at CB2 before you and 76 try to string me up on "hater" charges, please.

I think splitting time says more about Jason Allen than it does about Kareem Jackson. Jason Allen has played well this season & is improving as a player as much as Kareem is. He deserves to be on the field.

That's like Tim Jamison getting more snaps, it's not that JJ Watt or Antonio Smith are not living up to their expectations, Tim Jamison is balling & deserves more time on the field.

But I didn't say that. I would never say that. I think the car pooling system he and Jason Allen are a part of is speaking for itself, and the video shows that we can slow down on any talk of KJ saving the day by pulling Julio Jones' arm down on the last play. It's a phantom existence.

To say he had no affect on the play at all just doesn't make sense.

It's difficult to argue the "saving the day" argument, because no one is saying he saved the day. He made a play, the ball wasn't caught, end of story.

It would have been great if he intercepted the ball & took it back for 6, but he didn't & that's ok.

It's like saying "Andre didn't do anything special on that 50 yard reception. TJ put the ball in front of him, all he had to do was put his arms out & catch it. Yeah there was a DB draped all over him, but he didn't affect the catch. Yeah he touched Andre's arm, but he didn't wrap his hands around his biceps & forcefully separate his hands from the ball. We expect Andre to make that catch. If that was the other team's #1 receiver, you expect him to make that catch."

He wasn't bad, he's playing decent, but the deep stuff is still tricky for him and that's where a team with a good QB (Saints, for example) will make their hay on us.

Really?

Because I don't remember Drew Brees going deep on Kj, none that were successful anyway. Wouldn't that make you think he can hold his own? He played a lot of snaps in that Saints game. He played on the majority of the defensive possessions. There was only one drive where he was targeted three times.

For all the snaps he took in that game, we only talk about those three.

I think that says something about his play against the top NFL offenses.

At this point, I think we've got around 3 or 4 other secondary players who could play CB2 as good as (or even better than) Kareem Jackson. Credit the Texans for being patient and at least trying to bring the guy along...but that doesn't mean he gets goodie bags when it isn't his birthday to begin with. There, I said it.

We just finished playing our 12th game. We're the number two defense in the league (really the 1b defense if you think about it). We are #4 in passing yards allowed. We are #1 in opposing QBR. We are #2 in scoring defense.

Kj got one game ball.

I don't think we're handing them out to all the kids that came to the party.

 

[Rey]

It was really a pretty good battle, That play setting Atlanta up for their first touchdown, that was just a cleanly executed, well designed play. Kj could have played it better

Yes...It was a good battle...

Without actually looking the stats or the film I'd say that it was about half and half...

Julio won some, Kareem won some.

 

[Rey]

It is a big deal that Kubiak gave him a game ball. I'm watching the game & I'm actually thinking Kareem has had better games. I don't necessarily agree with giving him a game ball, but I do believe if Gary & co. saw reason for it, then they saw reason for it.

He's had better opportunities to make a good "gesture" so I don't think that is what it was.

I'm watching the game and I am trying to see why he deserved the game ball over any other defensive players and IMO I think it has a lot to do with that INT early in the game...

That was a really good play by KJ. A great play in the context of helping the team win.

The reason I say this is because if KJ had not broken off and made that play that could have messed us up for the rest of the game. That was a TD, big play saving INT that he made. He was the only one back there to make the play and he f'n did it....

Also, on that last drive when Allen got hurt he came in and battled Julio pretty good despite the fact that they kept throwing the ball over there...

He had that big hit on Roddy White....

KJ fought his ass off that game.

Yeah he had some errors but the dude battled a pretty talented receiver.

 

[TejasTom]

This is so much better than years past.

We are arguing over an incompletion in a WIN!

Not how did they blow a lead, I can't believe this play or that play or some unbelievable Hollywood ending for the other team. We've been saying for years that winners make those plays.

This play went to the Winner. It's amazing how many teams and players that looked like HOFers over the last few seasons now have bad games against us.

Wether or not KJ had anything to do with it, it wasn't a catch and we won.

This has been fun to watch, can we make this post 30 pages long?

 

[Rey]

He has no hidden agenda. I have known rey for YEARS here, and I can tell you this about him: The guy will not agree with a person JUST to get along. He might like you and what you have to say on Topic A...but then he will just as readily argue with you about your take on Topic Z. Some people tend to align themselves with others and adopt the other person's stance on almost everything, and I haven't noticed rey doing that. He's not agenda-driven, IMO.

Me thinks you are projecting things onto rey that describe you instead.

Rey drifts in and out of conversations and actually seems to rarely have "a dog" in any fight on here. One of the more objective guys on this board, tbh.

Carry on, though.

You know....

Half the time I am posting from tapatalk on my phone and the names I'm responding to don't even register...Of course I can tell some posters just by their typing style and what the yare saying, but I don't have any agenda's besides pointing out what I think is good info and what is not...

I am surprised that 76 says I have an agenda...I thnk I've agreed with and disagreed with almost everyone here...

And I've actually been around a lot longer than you think GP...I remember when you were GPShaefer (sp)...I remember when the old official board became the new "official" board and this site was still being pieced together...


I've actually been around since 2003 when I was a young lad of 17...

:lurker:

Lots of folks also think I have some kind of agenda against Schaub, but I was one of the first ones to go out to a practice and watch him and post that I thought he was going to be a really good player for us...

But yeah...I don't have an agenda against anyone...Just post my opinion...

 

[GP]

For a guy who likes to present logic, you sure know how to use all kind of false logic in the book, LOL!

Ad hominem, circular, just name it!

Stay on the topic, GP.

Who's the starter?
Jackson!

Did you predic that Allen would get the starting nod?
If you did, you can wait some more!

Those are facts, and not trash talk!

More "Nanny-Nanny-Boo-Boo!" trash talk.

On full display.

I won't do any trash talking. I'll let you do it all, as you're continuing to do here.

Keep showing us exactly who has an agenda, 76. You're doin' work and work is good.

 

[GP]

You know....

Half the time I am posting from tapatalk on my phone and the names I'm responding to don't even register...Of course I can tell some posters just by their typing style and what the yare saying, but I don't have any agenda's besides pointing out what I think is good info and what is not...

I am surprised that 76 says I have an agenda...I thnk I've agreed with and disagreed with almost everyone here...

And I've actually been around a lot longer than you think GP...I remember when you were GPShaefer (sp)...I remember when the old official board became the new "official" board and this site was still being pieced together...


I've actually been around since 2003 when I was a young lad of 17...

:lurker:

Lots of folks also think I have some kind of agenda against Schaub, but I was one of the first ones to go out to a practice and watch him and post that I thought he was going to be a really good player for us...

But yeah...I don't have an agenda against anyone...Just post my opinion...

Yes, I switched it to just plain old GP when Kevin acquired the software that the "official" houstontexans.com message board had been operating with. We had to start over, post counts and rep points and such...so I figured I would just start fresh and shorten my name.

I had been over on the other board, and Kevin visited that board and invited people to come try out his new board (this one). I went, and I never went back to the texans.com board again.

You've got a good memory!

 

[infantrycak]

OK. Tried to read through this schlock but couldn't manage it. But a couple comments.

Kj had a part in that, but it was still a drop at the end if the day.

Not according to outsiders having no affiliation with either team who credited KJ with a pass defensed and did not assign a drop to JJ.

I saw you have taken a middle line in this thread but that was an overstatement.

For the record , I trust Lance Zierlien opinions over 76Texans and the game ball combined...

Yeah, the same LZ who recently said OLmen assignments aren't affected by who is rushing the passer because it is just mano o mano. Good call. It's that great football acumen which has him employed in the NFL right? - even though he should have fantastic contacts through his father?

 

[thunderkyss]

Yeah, the same LZ who recently said OLmen assignments aren't affected by who is rushing the passer because it is just mano o mano. Good call. It's that great football acumen which has him employed in the NFL right? - even though he should have fantastic contacts through his father?

Did you read that correctly? Not trying to be smart, just asking the question. He said he'll take LZ's opinion (not his fathers) over 76Texans' & the game ball (which was awarded by Kubiak) combined.

That's bold, that's all I'm saying. LZ is knowledgeable, but I don't think he trumps Kubiak.

 

[infantrycak]

Did you read that correctly? Not trying to be smart, just asking the question. He said he'll take LZ's opinion (not his fathers) over 76Texans' & the game ball (which was awarded by Kubiak) combined.

That's bold, that's all I'm saying. LZ is knowledgeable, but I don't think he trumps Kubiak.

I guess I should have put in a /sarcasm.

 

[thunderkyss]

I guess I should have put in a /sarcasm.

Or maybe I can read up on the subtlety of punctuation & context.

My bad.

 

[76Texan]

You know....

Half the time I am posting from tapatalk on my phone and the names I'm responding to don't even register...Of course I can tell some posters just by their typing style and what the yare saying, but I don't have any agenda's besides pointing out what I think is good info and what is not...

I am surprised that 76 says I have an agenda...I thnk I've agreed with and disagreed with almost everyone here...

And I've actually been around a lot longer than you think GP...I remember when you were GPShaefer (sp)...I remember when the old official board became the new "official" board and this site was still being pieced together...


I've actually been around since 2003 when I was a young lad of 17...

:lurker:

Lots of folks also think I have some kind of agenda against Schaub, but I was one of the first ones to go out to a practice and watch him and post that I thought he was going to be a really good player for us...

But yeah...I don't have an agenda against anyone...Just post my opinion...

Agenda/Opinion

It's hard to differentiate between the two terms at times.

What I remember is that you (Rey) didn't think KJ will pan out as a #2.

Before the season began, you was putting the money on Allen to win out the starting spot over KJ (even though you didn't think either one of them is good enough for the job.)


Here are some of your quotes.


After the Ravens game:

(in respond to my post noting that on that particular play, the Texans were double-teaming Boldin with JJo and a safety while KJ was in man coverage)

"Boldin is their best wr. It makes more sense to double whoever Kareem is holding though."

"Kareem has not been a good player. "


Then, in late October:

(in respond to one of my posts):

"your kj stuff is getting a little creepy. How it's not obvious to you that he (KJ) is a liability is kind of strange.


"We need a real #2 corner and this defense will be exponentially better..."
...


Those were your bottom lines (at least until that moment).

I'm not sure you still think the same, or you have moved your agenda a little closer toward accepting that KJ seems to be working out as a #2 CB.

Care to give your current opinion?

 

[Rey]

Delete.

 

[thunderkyss]

Agenda/Opinion

It's hard to differentiate between the two terms at times.

What I remember is that you (Rey) didn't think KJ will pan out as a #2.

Before the season began, you was putting the money on Allen to win out the starting spot over KJ (even though you didn't think either one of them is good enough for the job.)

I understood & respected Rey's opinion that Allen would at least get the ball back from time to time, even though he was as much a liability as Kj.

While I do respect Allen's penchant for INTs, I'd much rather have Kj out there where the guy is usually covered better & the ball not thrown his way as often as Allen (that's the way I see it, sorry if you don't agree).

But Rey's opinion & stance was just as valid as mine or yours.

Delete.

I understand.

 

[thunderkyss]

How many touchdowns did we give up yesterday?

 

[foo82]

How many touchdowns did we give up yesterday?

I dunno, but I'm sure it was Kareem's fault we almost lost.

 

[BigBull17]

I think KJ has improved by leaps and bounds from last year. My only concers is that he lacks the foot speed at times. he is tough and is decent when he gets his hands on the ball, but I will worry when he defends a speed receiver. I don't think CB is a glaring need, but if you have a chance to upgrade it, you do. Like all positions.

 

[thunderkyss]

I dunno, but I'm sure it was Kareem's fault we almost lost.

The reason I brought this up, is because for some reason there is usually not a word spoken about Kareem Jackson unless he "potentially" gives up a games tieing score.

Again, Kareem was virtually invisible because (I think) his receiver isn't open. He might not have been covering Megatron, but he's doing his job just the same.

Another reason I brought this up, is because we gave up 1 TD. Jason Allen looked to be playing zone, he passed the receiver off to the safety & imo the safety (Manning) was inexplicably covering the other side of the field. That's just my take. Allen didn't do anything wrong, but if you watch the alignment before the snap, then watch who is around the player when he scores, it makes it look as if Allen screwed up, when (I think) the safety should have been there.

 

[thunderkyss]

I think KJ has improved by leaps and bounds from last year. My only concers is that he lacks the foot speed at times. he is tough and is decent when he gets his hands on the ball, but I will worry when he defends a speed receiver. I don't think CB is a glaring need, but if you have a chance to upgrade it, you do. Like all positions.

On a pure speed receiver, I would rather have Allen or McCain out there. I think Kj has good speed, but not enough experience to use it right (shouldn't be that way, but that's the way I see it). He'll do in a pinch, because he's good at the line with his hands. He should be able to disrupt the timing.

On a receiver who is physical, I'd rather have Kj, although Allen has been using his size more to his advantage lately. But you can tell Allen wants to turn & run every snap... but that's not always the best thing to do.

 

[foo82]

On a pure speed receiver, I would rather have Allen or McCain out there. I think Kj has good speed, but not enough experience to use it right (shouldn't be that way, but that's the way I see it). He'll do in a pinch, because he's good at the line with his hands. He should be able to disrupt the timing.

On a receiver who is physical, I'd rather have Kj, although Allen has been using his size more to his advantage lately. But you can tell Allen wants to turn & run every snap... but that's not always the best thing to do.

My major gripe with KJ isn't his speed, but rather his awareness of where the ball is at. Many time's he i too focused on the receiver which may account to why he is targeted less because it gives the appearance of being covered.

BUt when something is thrown his way, especially a deep ball, he rarely has his head turned around to track. There were a few times the ball was underthrown in which the wr had to make an adjustment.

 

[76Texan]

How many touchdowns did we give up yesterday?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eApYgMlPLVQ

Watch how the defense schemed to give Allen more support.
And we still gave up the TD.

Allen on weakside (2 offensive threats) with 5 defenders.
Manning moved back to the middle to play deep safety.

Texans put on a stunt.
We blitzed all 3 gaps on the weak side.
Almost got there, too!

Allen made a bad read and was turned around.
Whether we were in cover 3 or cover 1, it was still not a good play by Allen (even though the defense schemed to give him more support.)

 

[EllisUnit]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eApYgMlPLVQ

Watch how the defense schemed to give Allen more support.
And we still gave up the TD.

Allen on weakside (2 offensive threats) with 5 defenders.
Manning moved back to the middle to play deep safety.

Texans put on a stunt.
We blitzed all 3 gaps on the weak side.
Almost got there, too!

Allen made a bad read and was turned around.
Whether we were in cover 3 or cover 1, it was still not a good play by Allen (even though the defense schemed to give him more support.)

allen 4 ints 14 passes defended

Jackson 1 int 4 passes defended

enough said. I watch the games and they dont give allen any more help than they give Jackson or JoJo

 

[thunderkyss]

allen 4 ints 14 passes defended

Jackson 1 int 4 passes defended

If that's on 30 passes thrown Allen's way vs 16 thrown Kj's way do those numbers still prove your point?

 

[foo82]

If that's on 30 passes thrown Allen's way vs 16 thrown Kj's way do those numbers still prove your point?

don't bother responding. Ellis will forever be a KJ hater. If KJ ever becomes a probowl cb, the hating will still continue on. Stats are on a mere convenience to prove his point. Any stat showing the opposite will just be ignored. There is no rhyme or reason.

KJ will now and forever be "burnt toast".

Ellis would rather KJ suck and bring the Texans down to crap to prove his point than him being a good player and helping the Texans. His hatred for KJ exceeds his love for the Texans.

 

[thunderkyss]

Can someone generate a list of all the Rookie Cornerbacks that played the majority of the defensive snaps (starter) as a rookie?

I know T-Newman did, Charles Woodson, who else?

 

[steelbtexan]

don't bother responding. Ellis will forever be a KJ hater. If KJ ever becomes a probowl cb, the hating will still continue on. Stats are on a mere convenience to prove his point. Any stat showing the opposite will just be ignored. There is no rhyme or reason.

KJ will now and forever be "burnt toast".

Ellis would rather KJ suck and bring the Texans down to crap to prove his point than him being a good player and helping the Texans. His hatred for KJ exceeds his love for the Texans.

This post is rather presumptive.

Not that I have a dog in this fight. (Mike Vick refrence)

 

[76Texan]

Regarding the last play in the Falcons game, here's another independent view:
http://www.profootballweekly.com/2011/12/05/texans-d-continues-its-dominance-in-win-over-falco

Although it appeared to the naked eye that Jones dropped what would have been the game-tying score, replays revealed that Jackson was able to reach his hand in and disrupt the play.

 

[76Texan]

Here's an update ranking on DBs by PFF if you like stats.
(Jason Allen is not on the list.)

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/09/06/fantasy-weekly-defensive-backs-projections/

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/04/10/fantasy-house-rules-the-quest-for-an-idp-scoring-system-the-findings/

 

[EllisUnit]

don't bother responding. Ellis will forever be a KJ hater. If KJ ever becomes a probowl cb, the hating will still continue on. Stats are on a mere convenience to prove his point. Any stat showing the opposite will just be ignored. There is no rhyme or reason.

KJ will now and forever be "burnt toast".

Ellis would rather KJ suck and bring the Texans down to crap to prove his point than him being a good player and helping the Texans. His hatred for KJ exceeds his love for the Texans.

Haha no i say what i see, when and if KJ starts playing at a pro bowl calibur i will love it, i dont see you responding to how 76 or TK are so far up KJs ass they couldnt see the 50 yard line if they were standing on the 50. No need to attack Allen to make KJ look good. I have not started a Thread bashing KJ in a long time, on the other hand 76 has started threads bashing allen.

Read all the threads and posts and you wont look so stupid with such a biased response.

much appreciated ELLIS
and KJ still sucks

 

[silvrhand]

I'll just be glad one way or another the KJ threads will stop, either he's traded or playing good enough that people just let it go.

 

[buddyboy]

Haha no i say what i see, when and if KJ starts playing at a pro bowl calibur i will love it, i dont see you responding to how 76 or TK are so far up KJs ass they couldnt see the 50 yard line if they were standing on the 50. No need to attack Allen to make KJ look good. I have not started a Thread bashing KJ in a long time, on the other hand 76 has started threads bashing allen.

Read all the threads and posts and you wont look so stupid with such a biased response.

much appreciated ELLIS
and KJ still sucks

The reason people say things like that about you is exemplefied in the last little jab you made. Your little smiley says it all.

You're not hoping KJ does better. Your happy he's not playing at a probowl caliber. In fact, you're apparently ecstatic that, in your mind, he sucks, simply because that means you get to continue to believe you're justified in the way you assessed him previously.

Most people believe that KJ didn't perform as well has we needed him to last year (sure, there are some exceptions). But, most people also recognize his improvement without making backhanded snipes at him.

And it's really going to take probowl play from him to stop your crying about him? Apparently we're only going to have about one probowler this year, you should be spouting nonsense about the other 52 players on our team too.

 

[EllisUnit]

The reason people say things like that about you is exemplefied in the last little jab you made. Your little smiley says it all.

You're not hoping KJ does better. Your happy he's not playing at a probowl caliber. In fact, you're apparently ecstatic that, in your mind, he sucks, simply because that means you get to continue to believe you're justified in the way you assessed him previously.

Most people believe that KJ didn't perform as well has we needed him to last year (sure, there are some exceptions). But, most people also recognize his improvement without making backhanded snipes at him.

And it's really going to take probowl play from him to stop your crying about him? Apparently we're only going to have about one probowler this year, you should be spouting nonsense about the other 52 players on our team too.

buddy boy please show me the last thread i made about KJ, i comment in other threads that other people make when they talk bad about J.Allen. Yes it is apparent that i dont like KJ, that is obvious. I only say what i say because of threads like this, cause now KJ is SOOOO good that he never needs safety help and Allen ALWAYS needs it haha. Last season KJ sucked because the safties didnt help him enough or they sucked (according to 76 and TK) but, now all the sudden he succeeds with no safety help. Give me a break.

Oh and KJ really really really sucks still

 

[GP]

LOL.

I see the Crimson Tide is rolling again.

I have never seen a few people work so HARD to prop up a guy, and then try to minimize a stat like EllisUnit pointed out.

BUT...Kareem Jackson is "the starter" so the argument is over, so I'm told.

Yet the guy is playing roughly half the snaps and doing a Time Share with Jason Allen. Hey, if Jason Allen sucks as bad as you guys think...why isn't Kareem Jackson the full time starter by now? My theory is KJ is so behind the curve, that Jason Allen is splitting time with him so that KJ can absorb the game and watch a little bit more than playing every snap.

I don't see any big leap in KJ this year, in terms of his reaction to deep passes and just a huge stiffness in how he reacts to things. He really doesn't look like NFL caliber to me. And besides, Saban was silent when asked about KJ leaving early for the draft...IIRC, he felt the guy needed another year and wasn't ready. People think Saban is a dyck, I don't care, he just wins at the college level and knows who's up in college ball. I trust the guy's reaction to KJ leaving early. He flat out felt the guy was still rough around the edges.

I think we even had a 'Bama fan come on here and say that the other CB on that team was the real star and KJ was...well, a CB2 and nothing more. I'm sorry, but we don't draft CBs in the first round to be a career CB2, do we? And he was drafted BEFORE we got Joseph and Manning in free agency--KJ was here one full year before we acquired a CB1--so we wanted/needed a potential CB1. THAT is the grade standard I hold KJ to. ****, we got a pretty competent QB in the 5th round folks. KJ can't control where he gets drafted on draft day, but still...he and two others were graded as 1st round material. Oops.

I just don't get how the Jackson Three (TK, BB, and 76) ignore that. The guy is in a job share out there, for crying out loud. Yeah, he's burnin' it up in 2011....

:shakeweightmotion:

 

[ObsiWan]

this thread ==

 

[GP]

this thread ==

LOL. Slow news week.

Tired of Tebow.

Tired of "We don't get no love from the media!"

Tired of "Why did Wade Phillips have to say that crap?!?!? Dammit!!!! :smilie palm: "

It was only going to get dredged up again, it's nature. Ecosystem and all that jazz.

 

[thunderkyss]

I have never seen a few people work so HARD to prop up a guy, and then try to minimize a stat like EllisUnit pointed out.

BUT...Kareem Jackson is "the starter" so the argument is over, so I'm told.

Yet the guy is playing roughly half the snaps and doing a Time Share with Jason Allen. Hey, if Jason Allen sucks as bad as you guys think...why isn't Kareem Jackson the full time starter by now? My theory is KJ is so behind the curve, that Jason Allen is splitting time with him so that KJ can absorb the game and watch a little bit more than playing every snap.

Jason Allen has bounced from corner to safety to street free agent for a reason. He's a better corner now than when he came here.

I expected Kareem to get better, that's what 2nd year players do. Didn't expect Allen to get better, 6-7 year vets usually don't, but he proved me wrong.

So, I never said Allen sucks, only that I'd invest more time in Kareem than Allen if it were me making the decisions. Luckily for us, the Texans don't see it that way & have the time to develop both players. I'd imagine Brandon Harris is getting more & more NFL ready as well.

I don't see any big leap in KJ this year, in terms of his reaction to deep passes and just a huge stiffness in how he reacts to things. He really doesn't look like NFL caliber to me.

& that's fine, we're all wrong every once in a while.

And besides, Saban was silent when asked about KJ leaving early for the draft...IIRC, he felt the guy needed another year and wasn't ready. People think Saban is a dyck, I don't care, he just wins at the college level and knows who's up in college ball. I trust the guy's reaction to KJ leaving early. He flat out felt the guy was still rough around the edges.

Saban has a history of his guys going the full 4 years. It's rare when they don't. I'd imagine he'd say the same about any of his players.

I think we even had a 'Bama fan come on here and say that the other CB on that team was the real star and KJ was...well, a CB2 and nothing more. I'm sorry, but we don't draft CBs in the first round to be a career CB2, do we? And he was drafted BEFORE we got Joseph and Manning in free agency--KJ was here one full year before we acquired a CB1--so we wanted/needed a potential CB1. THAT is the grade standard I hold KJ to. ****, we got a pretty competent QB in the 5th round folks. KJ can't control where he gets drafted on draft day, but still...he and two others were graded as 1st round material. Oops.

We drafted Kj and continued to pursue FA corners. We didn't find any that were better than what we had. Leigh Bodden may have been the exception, but he didn't want to come here.

Kj was not drafted & expected to start right away. We failed to secure a veteran fA & had to play the hand we were dealt.

It is still too early to say that Kj will never be a number one. But he is improving, even though you don't see it. With Jjo here, sorry, he won't be CB1, but that doesn't mean he won't be a very good CB.

I just don't get how the Jackson Three (TK, BB, and 76) ignore that. The guy is in a job share out there, for crying out loud. Yeah, he's burnin' it up in 2011....

:shakeweightmotion:

I didn't think any less of Caldwell or Duane Brown when they were working out very similar situations. If you've got players that you believe they deserve to be on the field, you find a way to do it.

Look, I'm watching the kid play & I think (my opinion) that he plays well for a 2nd year corner, (I thought he played well for a rookie as well on a historically bad defense).

I do not expect a CB to come out of college & make it to the probowl as a rookie. Though it has happened (McCourty) it's rare. There have been some to come out & play well as rookies (TNewman, Charles Woodson come to mind) but it is still more the case that they play like rookies, look at all the other CBs from his draft class.... take a look at McCourty this year.

Look at the Corners that have come out in the last 4 years & start naming the ones that look hands down better than Kareem Jackson, then try to remember or find tape from their rookie years. Most of them do not play the number of snaps Kareem did. & it's for a reason, because they'll look like Kareem did.

All I'm saying, & all I've ever said, is that I'm not writing him off.

 

[ObsiWan]

LOL. Slow news week.

Tired of Tebow.

Tired of "We don't get no love from the media!"

Tired of "Why did Wade Phillips have to say that crap?!?!? Dammit!!!! :smilie palm: "

It was only going to get dredged up again, it's nature. Ecosystem and all that jazz.

I'm into recycling as much as the next guy but geez...
oh well, carry on.

 

[EllisUnit]

i always say i will try to avoid these type of threads, and i never do. but this time i mean it

 

[EllisUnit]

If that's on 30 passes thrown Allen's way vs 16 thrown Kj's way do those numbers still prove your point?

oh one last thing T yes they do prove my point you do the math here i will do it for you

KJ 1 int 4 passes defended in 16 passes his way

now

allen 4 int and 14 passes defended on 30 passes his way

ok half of 30 is 15 right. that means allen defends the pass just under 50% of the time. while half of 16 is 8 this means KJ defends the pass 25% of the time.

Allen 4 Ints on 30 pass attempts and KJ 1 Int on 16 pass attemps. again half of 30 is 15. This means allen intercepts the ball 1 out of every 7.2 pass attempts. and then half of 16 is 8 this means KJ intercepts the ball 1 out of every 16 pass attempts. well the math on KJs last part was dumb

See so breaking down the numbers actually proves my point, thanks

 

[tarheeltexan]

Well "In Wade I Trust" is usually the way I look at it but idk how many changes will be made while Wade is gone...

 

[thunderkyss]

oh one last thing T yes they do prove my point you do the math here i will do it for you

KJ 1 int 4 passes defended in 16 passes his way

now

allen 4 int and 14 passes defended on 30 passes his way

ok half of 30 is 15 right. that means allen defends the pass just under 50% of the time. while half of 16 is 8 this means KJ defends the pass 25% of the time.

Allen 4 Ints on 30 pass attempts and KJ 1 Int on 16 pass attemps. again half of 30 is 15. This means allen intercepts the ball 1 out of every 7.2 pass attempts. and then half of 16 is 8 this means KJ intercepts the ball 1 out of every 16 pass attempts. well the math on KJs last part was dumb

See so breaking down the numbers actually proves my point, thanks

Well that's true....

depending on how you look at it. If Kareem is getting more snaps (& I don't know that is true or not) why are more balls going Allen's way than Kareem's..... that would have to factor .

How many completions were made? If Kj gave up 4 in 16 targets & Allen gives up 14 in his 30 that changes things don't it? If Kj gave up 1 touchdown with those stats & Allen gave up 3..... etc...

I love stats, don't get me wrong. But they aren't the end all be all.

 

[EllisUnit]

Well that's true....

depending on how you look at it. If Kareem is getting more snaps (& I don't know that is true or not) why are more balls going Allen's way than Kareem's..... that would have to factor .

How many completions were made? If Kj gave up 4 in 16 targets & Allen gives up 14 in his 30 that changes things don't it? If Kj gave up 1 touchdown with those stats & Allen gave up 3..... etc...

I love stats, don't get me wrong. But they aren't the end all be all.

i fully agree that stats dont always tell the whole story. I will say this, i do think KJ has improved from last season, not just his play but the CB opposite him and both safety positions have been upgraded, and i think it is making everyone look better, not to mention Our D-Line dont like to give QBs very much time to set up and throw.

We all know i like J. Allen and that yall like KJ. I stopped all the KJ Bashing threads, just wish 76 would stop all the allen bashing threads. Hell i would never talk bad about KJ if that could happen.